Indonesia Defence Forum

[Chestnut]

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There's Belharra design by naval group in DJKI (Direktorat Jenderal Kekayaan Intelektual) maybe expect this ship to be contracted later?

https://pdki-indonesia.dgip.go.id/index.php/di/UHJTMzdYcTNTL0lMM0hXVVlJajBodz09?q=Kapal&type=1

I think this came out of the LOI signed in 2017. Look at the registration date. Until there's an LOR/LOA we should just treat it as nothing more than "MenHan flex".

 

[Whizzack]

View attachment 662536 View attachment 662537 View attachment 662538
View attachment 662543
There's Belharra design by naval group in DJKI (Direktorat Jenderal Kekayaan Intelektual) maybe expect this ship to be contracted later?

https://pdki-indonesia.dgip.go.id/index.php/di/UHJTMzdYcTNTL0lMM0hXVVlJajBodz09?q=Kapal&type=1

The hull design is... interesting... but what is it with the protruding lower bow..? Seems some modern ship designs are reverting back to the ancient ironclad battleships hull design... for what purpose though..? As I understand it, in those old warships the protruding bow is meant as a battering ram to damage the opponent's hull under the waterline.. but what use does it have in a modern warship...?

 

[Raduga]

The hull design is... interesting... but what is it with the protruding lower bow..? Seems some modern ship designs are reverting back to the ancient ironclad battleships hull design... for what purpose though..? As I understand it, in those old warships the protruding bow is meant as a battering ram to damage the opponent's hull under the waterline.. but what use does it have in a modern warship...?

wave piercing hull , good for unstable sea state .

 

[Nike]

Itver Huitveld all the way right now

 

[¿Por qué?]

Lol, We don't give a ****

Why should we listen to them?

Btw is ok to scrap that idea, I don't really like lt.

Well, we have agreed a deal to give them Sabang to use as both economic and military purpose. Even Luhut used this sales pitch : "the port’s 40-metre depth is good for all types of vessels, including submarines".

Hindustan Times : https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...t-of-sabang/story-KPXWKy7PGAHFUi0jCL26yJ.html

I don't think there's any country in the world who would object this except China.

This is from CCP mouthpiece : http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1104493.shtml

 

[Kansel]

Itver Huitveld all the way right now

AFAIK this is different procurements

 

[Gundala]

In addition to what others have said here about SAMP/T, what I like about this is its open architecture. Its easier to integrate and do future upgrade. Something that some of current rival is lacking.

Anyway seeing we purchase some new and cool alutsista is good, but what making me thrill is seing that our troops getting more financially. I know its prolly part of Covid economy boost but still its a great news for me to see

"Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- Pemerintah bakal menaikkan tunjangan kinerja (tukin) TNI hingga 80 persen pada 2021 mendatang"

"Lebih detail, kenaikan anggaran ini akan juga untuk pemenuhan pemeliharaan dan perawatan alutista dengan kesiapan sampai 70 persen dan kebutuhan bahan bakar minyak dan pelumas (BMP) sebesar Rp6,11 triliun."

Pretty nice, expect our alutsista readyness to increase next year.

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/ekonom...jangan-kinerja-tni-naik-80-persen-tahun-depan

 

[Chestnut]

In addition to what others have said here about SAMP/T, what I like about this is its open architecture. Its easier to integrate and do future upgrade. Something that some of current rival is lacking.

That and MBDA is rolling out the Aster 30 Block 2, which is supposed to offer performance closer to THAAD.

 

[¿Por qué?]

The best missile for the AD is arguably the SAMP/T in terms of cost to benefit ratio. Me, @Gen3115, @Azull, Striver, and a couple of others talked about it out of boredom.

As much as I like the MEADS/Patriot series (and arguably the fact that the PAC-3/4 blows the SAMP/T out of the water is terms of ABM capability), the fact that a lot of the TNI-AD's existing GBAD infrastructure exists on a network based around Thales architecture (Think the CONTROLMaster for the Starstreak and Mistral) it would be cheaper and more streamlined overall for the TNI-AD to get either the Crotale NG or VL MICA for MRAD and the Aster 30NT SAMP/T for HIMAD and ABM duties. At the end of the day what we should be looking to do is an TNI-AD CEC like system that work in conjunction with a larger network of IADS among the tri-services. And although you can still do it with MEADS/Patriot it would just be more expensive to to integrate all of them together as you would have to pay both Raytheon and Thales integration costs.

The fact that it's a a huge probability that the Navy is likely installing the Aster over the SM series (along with the VL MICA already onboard the Martadinatas) means that the services can rely on a common pool of missiles when it comes to GBAD/IADS. Think Singapore and their Asters.

I wouldn't know where to begin when it comes to the newer S-400 system (no one does, and if they do they are either breaking the law or lying). But if the export variant would lead us to somewhat similar (but improved) performance to the S-300, then we can thank the Syrians for demonstrating how colossally terrible they are. And that's coming from a system that's (partly) integrated with other GBAD's such as Buk, Tor, and Pantsirs. It would be even worse when it comes unintegrated with existing GBAD since all of ours are Western made.

Considering that we'll be surrounded by many F-35s in the near future while the most advanced that we might have will "only" be F-16V/Rafale/SU-35, don't you think we should have missile system that can detect 5th gen jets?

Yes, I know that S-300 failed to detect F-35 in Syria. I also realize that while the capability of S-400 to expose sensitive information about the F-35s still debatable, what S-400 can offer is deterrent effect. A huge one to say the least.

I think I read somewhere that the latest version (for French troops?) of SAMP/T can detect 5th gen. Is this true?

 

[Chestnut]

Considering we are pretty much going to be operating F-35's in the future, why do we need to be able to detect it? Like it or not, for the foreseeable future our interests aligns with those of the US, Australia, and Singapore. So as much as no one wants to admit it, we are very much in their orbit and there is no point attempting to antagonize them.

The West is not our adversary my guy, China is.

Also keep in mind that China has also started operating the S-400 system in 2018, so they likely already know how to exploit it as well.

https://tass.com/defense/1015016

And the S-400 being a huge deterrent is inaccurate. A deterrent sure, but to say a huge one is laughable. The fact that the Israelis are able to conduct strikes with impunity with their F-35 despite Russian S-400 radars operating in the region says a lot about the system. You might say that under ROE they are unable to fire upon Israeli aircraft, but to say that it extends so that they would not be able to "share" data with their Syrian allies is naive.

 

[Ruhnama]

Well the Germans are not crying foul against DSME, so everything is most likely to be in order...



Likely not deep enough to be a real air raid shelter/bunker... however it might still provide adequate protection for the general public as long as it's not targeted directly or on purpose by bunker busting bombs... The best Subway lines that also doubles as air raid shelters are probably those in North Korea, it's rumored to be at least 100 meters deep underground.

Russian one is very famous for this purpose also

Let me guess he also use iPhone?





Ain't worth the money. The weapon of 21st century are a whole different beast than their WW2 counterpart. WW2 Luftwaffe use their Flaktürme as bomb raid shelter for the denizen of Berlin

Flak tower construction likely not cheap

S-400 though

Do you want korean S-400?

 

[Being-Art]

Considering we are pretty much going to be operating F-35's in the future, why do we need to be able to detect it? Like it or not, for the foreseeable future our interests aligns with those of the US, Australia, and Singapore. So as much as no one wants to admit it, we are very much in their orbit and there is no point attempting to antagonize them.

The West is not our adversary my guy, China is.

Also keep in mind that China has also started operating the S-400 system in 2018, so they likely already know how to exploit it as well.

https://tass.com/defense/1015016

And the S-400 being a huge deterrent is inaccurate. A deterrent sure, but to say a huge one is laughable. The fact that the Israelis are able to conduct strikes with impunity with their F-35 despite Russian S-400 radars operating in the region says a lot about the system. You might say that under ROE they are unable to fire upon Israeli aircraft, but to say that it extends so that they would not be able to "share" data with their Syrian allies is naive.

The main obstacle for the S-400 is that it cannot synchronize with our existing datalink, unless we mostly use Soviet/Russian-made defense equipment, it can only be integrated.

 

[Nike]

 

[Chestnut]

The Black on DPM is slowly growing on me not gonna lie.

 

[Azull]

The main obstacle for the S-400 is that it cannot synchronize with our existing datalink, unless we mostly use Soviet/Russian-made defense equipment, it can only be integrated.

This is one more good reasoning on why we need compatible system. I am not a salesman btw but to date SAMP/T offers us better compatibility.