Indonesia Defence Forum

[Chestnut]

I get that, but how thick are the SME's within TNI-AU can be insisting on Pegasus with its known teething issues? When even THREE of the traditional U.S customers (RSAF, RAAF, & ROKAF) picked MRTT over the Pegasus. Our experience with Boeing in the past decade has only been with the narrow-bodied classic 737's, and I'm not sure how much of the similarity between that and the KC-46. We operated a 707, but that was ages ago.

I'm with everyone on this one. The MRTT is just a better choice overall.

 

[Gundala]

Mark esper will come here next month?
Taunya sih kalau doi bakalan kesini dalam waktu dekat aja.

Bukan tentang dia. Skrg kita lg susun program utk pembelian melalui PLN atau pinjaman luar negri. Yg gw tau ketok palunya bulan depan. Sinkronisasi antara mindef, matra serta lobby dari eksternal itu yg lagi kenceng. Makanya banyak berita yg tiba-tiba muncul utk fasilitasi informasi/konfirmasi kepentingan para pihak diatas, seperti:

"Berdasarkan sumber yang dapat dipercaya, Kementerian Pertahanan telah mengalokasikan anggaran..."

https://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2020/07/tni-al-dapatkan-alokasi-anggaran-untuk.html

Contoh versi kartunnya gini:
x: "gw beliin sub rescue vessel baru nanti, tp lu bantuin program z gw dong"
y: "boleh juga tuh, beneran lu mau beliin rescue vessel baru?"
x: "Nih gw umumin di media"
y: "ok deh kaka"

Bit of an OOT, but our economy have contracted by 5.32% in Q2. Whilst expected but it is still more than forecasted. Interesting to see how this will affect our defence program and spending.

Oh it will, thats why multi years big purchase program using pinjaman luar negri will be under the microscope. As this program/projects need to go thru bappenas and kemenkeu. One of the reason why I think 48 Rafale program might not suit our pocket this year. But this is Indonesia, anything is possible right?

 

[Gundala]

Look at the text, it's an LOI between MinDef and the French. Which means nothing

It means something tho prolly not much for now. If what he said is true then the LOI will take the negotiation into the next level which means Rafale and other French product is not out of the picture yet in context to the upcoming budget approval.

 

[Nike]

Malaysia screw up big big time with their LCS programme as they even doesnt know when the two ships will be finished let alone the six ships.

https://www.malaysiandefence.com/here-we-go-again-lcs/

Meanwhile Indonesia is in design phase of Itver Huitveld class and possible armament outfitting before move on into freeze design and actual contract in 2021.

 

[NEKONEKO]

Malaysia screw up big big time with their LCS programme as they even doesnt know when the two ships will be finished let alone the six ships.

https://www.malaysiandefence.com/here-we-go-again-lcs/

Meanwhile Indonesia is in design phase of Itver Huitveld class and possible armament outfitting before move on into freeze design and actual contract in 2021.

With budget cut, delays and cost keep ballooning its really bad for them.

As for us we dont have problem with our PKR project, its just that we want more concession from Damen, with the possibility of more order for PKR I guess its already resolved.

 

[Cromwell]

Malaysia screw up big big time with their LCS programme as they even doesnt know when the two ships will be finished let alone the six ships.

https://www.malaysiandefence.com/here-we-go-again-lcs/

Meanwhile Indonesia is in design phase of Itver Huitveld class and possible armament outfitting before move on into freeze design and actual contract in 2021.

Too much mess with Boustead Naval Shipyard, i read Malaysian Goverment won't bail out extra fund to rescue 3rd to 5th vessel, 6th considered lost while 1st & 2nd must be completed using all Boustead available funds or resold to Naval Group.

 

[Being-Art]

Look at the text, it's an LOI between MinDef and the French. Which means nothing.

PAL and Naval Group signed one a couple of years ago for the Scorpene and Gowind, and still nothing to this day.

https://www.naval-group.com/en/news...eration-to-address-indonesias-naval-projects/

What you would likely see in the coming months is articles like "PTDI in discussions with Dassault...", which doesn't mean anything unless the individual services actually want to order. Case in point was the A400M debacle, the MinDef wanted the Air Force to buy it but the Air Force didn't want to spend their budget on it, instead preferring C-130J's. So instead they reached a compromise with the Air Force supplying pilots while the operational budget would come from the SOE budget.

Never believe anything until actual money is involved gentlemen.

even then it will only be realized if we signed a LOA (Letter of Acceptance). so we need to wait for the continuation, because it is still LOI, so one day it can change

 

[wahyusurya2020]

Gripen & erieye ?
Give up already?



Fansboynya gimana dong?

On Indonesia SAAB product frequently use with TNI AD
exp :NLAW,Girafe ,Rbs and BMS Network consultant

 

[Whizzack]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1290301736880488448

Hmm...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1290455276919951362

Different priorities it seems...

 

[nametag]

Indeed. I too found the previous comparative study of air-tanker released by TNI-AU to be baffling. Other than cost, it seems obvious that the A330 MRTT to be above the other two contenders (KC-46 & IL-78), but then the report chooses to throw in metrics that I found quite odd, like numbers of runway the A330 vs 767 can land in, I mean it's tanker aircraft at first with cargo as a secondary role. They also give the MRO point to 767, which I also find it to be strange.

MRO point to 767? we never had any experience with that plane, whether the military or local commercial airlines. As for A330, GMF already has experience and MRO facilities for years for that type.

 

[Chestnut]

Hmm...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1290455276919951362

Different priorities it seems...

They're never going to publicly admit it, officially we're neutral in all of this despite Chinese incursions. But, unofficially, you can likely put 2 and 2 together.

 

[Whizzack]

They're never going to publicly admit it, officially we're neutral in all of this despite Chinese incursions. But, unofficially, you can likely put 2 and 2 together.

Oh I do believe that they did discuss about all of those matters during their phone call session... China, SCS, Covid-19, Security, Trade, Investment, economy, etc...

It's just funny to see how both parties are so divergent in their focus and priorities though... and it shows...
US Focus : China, Security..
RI Focus : Trade, Investment..

Hopefully it was a productive talk...

 

[Cromwell]

Oh I do believe that they did discuss about all of those matters during their phone call session... China, SCS, Covid-19, Security, Trade, Investment, economy, etc...

It's just funny to see how both parties are so divergent in their focus and priorities though... and it shows...
US Focus : China, Security..
RI Focus : Trade, Investment..

Hopefully it was a productive talk...

You'll see, btw in world of foreign policies especially in our side, we never say yes and we never say no, A is not an A, it could be a or B or whatever intrepretations. We're entering greyzone which i'm afraid twitter isn't enough to intrepretate.
Btw if you people are curious about mr @AH, he visits Kemenhan canteen daily to pick up informations from his old colleagues in The Ministry

 

[Gundala]

LOL I bet he is not taking gorengan to go as well. Well prolly right, as all the information he got mostly come from kemenhan domain.

 

[Chestnut]

Can't sleep. So I ended up doing this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2020/07/24/how-much-does-an-f-15ex-cost-boeing-and-the-air-force-dont-agree/#30ad5adc67bc

According to Forbes and Boeing's VP, Prat Kumar; the flyaway price for the EX is "The flyaway cost of Block 1 [F-15EX] will be less than $80 million."

http://www.senat.fr/rap/a13-158-8/a13-158-814.html

According to the 2013 finance bill of the French Parliament. A Rafale C (We're still not sure what variant MenHan wants, it could be the more expensive two seater) in 2013 was €68.8 million Euros. Adjust that with inflation and it's €73 million Euros. Convert that to USD at current (8/6/2020) exchange rates, and it's $86 million. However, I am willing to accept that fly-away might be lower with more air frames now in service since 2013.

One aircraft already shares weapons, sub components, and engines with an aircraft type already in service with the TNI AU, thus decreasing operating cost. One does not, and requires extensive infrastructure building and retraining of not only aircrews but support personnel as well in order to reach IOC/FOC, thus increasing operating cost.

Feel free to make your own conclusions.