Indonesia Defence Forum

[striver44]

Indonesian Navy must get rid of it's huge fleet of (mostly) obsolete patrol boats stationed mostly in the coastal area, the manpower and budget freed from maintaining those boats should be allocated to acquire Ocean Going ships at least 1500t.
Ships like this should be given to the Coast Guard (sibarau class, Kal-28m class, PC-40m etc).

Considering the heated situation up north,The Indonesian Navy should be prepped for a high end conflict scenario. for that we need a slim, highly advanced ,highly maintained,inter connected fleet which serves only one purpose. Defeat the enemy in the high seas.

 

[nufix]

And Indonesia twitterland went crazy because of the cancellation~

But seriously, will R80 become a success if it is continued? terutama dalam hal laku di pasar domestik maupun internasional

According to some ex PTDI engineers now residing in Germany, they put little confidence that this plan will ever work. The biggest issue is actually the simplest one. What role is Regio Aviasi industri going to play and what role is PTDI going to play? As far as we know the R80 design is propitiatory of RAI, not PTDI, but RAI wants PTDI to manufacture RAI. So is RAI only the design beurau? But why does RAI claims that it will also be conducting serial production and sales?

Moreover, RAI as a company in its history of existence never really did anything substantial to when it comes to financing the project. Aircraft development is a high cost long term investment and so far, the only major financing campaign that they ever did is crowdfunding and T shirt/merchandise sale. It sounds more like a gimmick project than an actual project. Something as simple as Kopi Kenangan managed to gather over 500 million dollars in vc round investment but R80 that is claimed to be comparatively superior than other aircraft in the same class cannot get investments anywhere near a coffee brand??? RAI claimed that there will be 155 planes built for various launch customers, that number alone should be enough to pull investors to put money into this project assuming that they will get around 3 billion dollars in Sales plus maintenance, which is around 200% of the development cost/investment.

In my opinion, RAI should focus on being consultants first to major aircraft producers or even to PTDI. Sell the design to PTDI or co develop the aircraft with PTDI so that RAI could get access to proper RnD facility and possible financing by the government. Almost all aircraft companies started out as design bureaus, RAI should do the same.

 

[Indos]

According to some ex PTDI engineers now residing in Germany, they put little confidence that this plan will ever work. The biggest issue is actually the simplest one. What role is Regio Aviasi industri going to play and what role is PTDI going to play? As far as we know the R80 design is propitiatory of RAI, not PTDI, but RAI wants PTDI to manufacture RAI. So is RAI only the design beurau? But why does RAI claims that it will also be conducting serial production and sales?

Moreover, RAI as a company in its history of existence never really did anything substantial to when it comes to financing the project. Aircraft development is a high cost long term investment and so far, the only major financing campaign that they ever did is crowdfunding and T shirt/merchandise sale. It sounds more like a gimmick project than an actual project. Something as simple as Kopi Kenangan managed to gather over 500 million dollars in vc round investment but R80 that is claimed to be comparatively superior than other aircraft in the same class cannot get investments anywhere near a coffee brand??? RAI claimed that there will be 155 planes built for various launch customers, that number alone should be enough to pull investors to put money into this project assuming that they will get around 3 billion dollars in Sales plus maintenance, which is around 200% of the development cost/investment.

In my opinion, RAI should focus on being consultants first to major aircraft producers or even to PTDI. Sell the design to PTDI or co develop the aircraft with PTDI so that RAI could get access to proper RnD facility and possible financing by the government. Almost all aircraft companies started out as design bureaus, RAI should do the same.

PT RAI will only responsible for preliminary design while for detail design it needs PTDI helps since designers in RAI are not large although very experience, some of them are Boeing/Airbus graduates and also ex PTDI. I read somewhere about that before.

PT RAI based on their plan will make a factory in Kertajati and do the assembling while PTDI makes parts. Although there is indeed very open possibility for PTDI to also assemble and do the integration work if government investment is the majority. PT RAI design has also already been tested in BBTA3 wind tunnel and by becoming national strategic program since 2017 it means they have access to DI and government R&D facility. Their previous office is in PTDI building and maybe for the design office they are still operating there while Jakarta office look like only for marketing and management operation.

Here take a look on their plan. This plan is made before R80 become strategic national program, so we dont know yet what is the deal after it become strategic national program. I think R80 is still inside PSN but current government doesnt execute that, so it still has the opportunity to be next administration PSN program.

https://multisite.itb.ac.id/ftsl/wp...12/PT.-RAI-Presentation-11112015-APEN-RSA.pdf

 

[nufix]

PT RAI will only responsible for preliminary design while for detail design it needs PTDI helps since designers in RAI are not large although very experience, some of them are Boeing/Airbus graduates and also ex PTDI. I read somewhere about that before.

PT RAI based on their plan will make a factory in Kertajati and do the assembling while PTDI makes parts. Although there is indeed very open possibility for PTDI to also assemble and do the integration work if government investment is the majority. PT RAI design has also already been tested in BBTA3 wind tunnel and by becoming national strategic program since 2017 it means they have access to DI and government R&D facility. Their previous office is in PTDI building and maybe for the design office they are still operating there while Jakarta office look like only for marketing and management operation.

Here take a look on their plan. This plan is made before R80 become strategic national program, so we dont know yet what is the deal after it become strategic national program. I think R80 is still inside PSN but current government doesnt execute that, so it still has the opportunity to be next administration PSN program.

https://multisite.itb.ac.id/ftsl/wp...12/PT.-RAI-Presentation-11112015-APEN-RSA.pdf

That still not answer my question regarding the exact role each party is going to play. If PT RAI is going to conduct only preliminary design while detailed design and prototyping down to production will be done with PTDI, then R80 design is not propietary of PT RAI which makes it confusing since PT RAI signed the deal for the 140+ with multiple launch customer unilaterally as war as I know. So, what will PTDI got out of the partnership with RAI? If RAI tries to utilize PTDI for its private production without clear product ownership, then RAI gotta pay up PTDI for using its facilities and engineers from its own pocket. Which means that it should not even matter that R80 got removed from PSN list because it was not a state project in the first place.

Regarding the plant in Kertajati. That is relevant to my critics regarding their lack of seriousness is pursuing their „dream“ project because where is the money coming from? Aircraft manufacturing facility cannot be financed through crowdfunding and merchandise sales. And if RAI hopes to get government funding then R80 should be made state-owned, or government should take up shares in the company to ensure that it gets its money back once the serial production starts. This kind of thing is still missing for many of ex PTDI engineers that I have met so far.

An even bigger question would be why they didnt continue with the N250. It is practically the same plane that aims to compete with ATR72. Why reinvent the wheel? Sure RAI said that R80 is a continuation of N250 but why dont just use N280? Unless ofcourse RAI wants to own the design. But then we are back to my question about PTDI role in this thing.

 

[mandala]

28 MAY 2020 00:00 GMT+0

South Korea selects smart bombs, guidance kits for KF-X fighter

South Korea has completed the selection process for the precision-guided munitions and guidance kits that it plans to integrate with its future Korean Fighter eXperimental (KF-X) multirole fighter aircraft.

South Korean military officials told Janes on 28 May that Raytheon’s GBU-12 Paveway II, Boeing’s GBU-31/38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM), GBU-54/56 Laser JDAM, and GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bomb1 (SDB1), as well as Textron’s Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD) CBU‐105 had all been selected for integration with the KF-X, which is being developed by Korea Aerospace Industries, with PT Dirgantara Indonesia as KAI’s industry partner on the project.

They said the integration process for the smart bombs and guidance kits, all of which are already in service with the Republic of Korea Air Force (RoKAF), will start later this year, with full integration expected over the coming 6-7 years.

A computer-generated image showing two KF-X fighter aircraft equipped with Meteor BVRAAMs, forward-looking infrared pods, and Joint Direct Attack Munitions.

The move comes after MBDA Missile Systems announced in November 2019 that it had been awarded a contract for the integration of its Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) with the KF-X.

Also set for integration is the IRIS-T short-range air-to-air missile (SRAAM) by Germany’s Diehl Defence, with a contract expected to be signed in the near future.

The aircraft will feature terrain following/terrain avoidance (TF/TA) systems from Israel’s Elbit Systems.

The Haifa-based company announced 6 February that it had been awarded a contract by Hanwha Systems, which itself is working on an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for the fighter, to equip the KF-X with its TF/TA systems under a USD43 million contract that is set to be fulfilled over a six-year period.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/da27bd71-e47e-4cf6-81aa-456bf5824514

 

[Indos]

That still not answer my question regarding the exact role each party is going to play. If PT RAI is going to conduct only preliminary design while detailed design and prototyping down to production will be done with PTDI, then R80 design is not propietary of PT RAI which makes it confusing since PT RAI signed the deal for the 140+ with multiple launch customer unilaterally as war as I know. So, what will PTDI got out of the partnership with RAI? If RAI tries to utilize PTDI for its private production without clear product ownership, then RAI gotta pay up PTDI for using its facilities and engineers from its own pocket. Which means that it should not even matter that R80 got removed from PSN list because it was not a state project in the first place.

Regarding the plant in Kertajati. That is relevant to my critics regarding their lack of seriousness is pursuing their „dream“ project because where is the money coming from? Aircraft manufacturing facility cannot be financed through crowdfunding and merchandise sales. And if RAI hopes to get government funding then R80 should be made state-owned, or government should take up shares in the company to ensure that it gets its money back once the serial production starts. This kind of thing is still missing for many of ex PTDI engineers that I have met so far.

An even bigger question would be why they didnt continue with the N250. It is practically the same plane that aims to compete with ATR72. Why reinvent the wheel? Sure RAI said that R80 is a continuation of N250 but why dont just use N280? Unless ofcourse RAI wants to own the design. But then we are back to my question about PTDI role in this thing.

Yup, of course the design will be owned by both. I believe both government and PTDI is not stupid so if government invest majority of the development there will be deal that need to be agreed by both parties. I believe the name of the plane will not be R80 and will be likely RN 80 something. What we just hear is only previous planning from PT RAI about its cooperation scheme with PTDI and we havent heard about the final deal between RAI and DI (government). If the government pay most of the development cost and also PTDI involved in designing, prototyping, and production, it will be clear that R80 will become PTDI own project but there will be some percentage of stake will be owned by RAI on the program.

The deal between RAI and several national airline is just an MOU or LoI (Letter of Intend), not a contract yet.

N250 design look like not competitive enough after the testing was done and it needs redesign to better compete with ATR 42 that means more time needed for redesigning and money for prototyping. Somehow our DI planner change mind and prefer to build N219 starting in 2004 although the money for making a prototype only can be gotten in 2014, 10 years later, through LAPAN budget. By the way, your family member who are ex DI and now working in EADS can explain it better if you try to ask him.

In my opinion, the reason we should support this program is because the one who made the preliminary design are our best designers, that include Ilham Habibie and many of his friends who are previously working in Boeing and Airbus after DI get financial trouble. They also have experience in N 250 and N2130 design. According to what I read, many of them come back because of nationalism and also respect to Habibie, their former boss and the one who build our aerospace industry. Getting RAI and DI together will give much benefit for our young designers in DI for transfer of knowledge and experience. Beside that, I think we need to have second aerospace company which are private owned in order to improve our aerospace industry further.

 

[mandala]

N245 and R80 have been kicked from PRN list , PTTA MALE and N219 could probably getting more support and allocation.
https://finance.detik.com/infrastru...e-tendang-pesawat-warisan-bj-habibie-dari-psn
https://kumparan.com/kumparanbisnis...-habibie-fokus-pengembangan-drone-1tVb36Mlzcf

So i assumed that the KF-X is still in the PSN list.

 

[Jatosint]

So i assumed that the KF-X is still in the PSN list.

Nope according to this:

"Lebih lanjut, Airlangga merinci, sebanyak 15 proyek berupa pembangunan jalan dan jembatan, lima proyek berupa pembangunan bandara, lima proyek berupa pembangunan kawasan industri, serta 13 proyek berupa pembangunan bendungan dan irigasi. Selain itu ada pula satu proyek berupa pembangunan tanggul laut, tiga proyek pembangunan smelter, satu proyek penyediaan lahan pangan di Kalimantan Tengah, lim proyek pembangunan pelabuhan, dan enam proyek pembangunan infrastruktur kereta api. Selanjutnya ialah 13 proyek pembangunan kawasan perbatasan,12 proyek sumber energi, enam proyek air bersih, satu proyek pengelolaan sampah, dan tiga proyek pengembangan pesawat tanpa awak (drone)."

https://nasional.kompas.com/read/20...royek-strategis-nasional-baru-senilai-rp-1422

Tapi emang sebelumnya KFX masuk PSN?

 

[Nike]

Imho, kfx ifx ga pernah masuk psn kok dari awal. Kalo psn nya korea iya jelas. Btw, for so long TNI AU and some industrialist at government offices want to see Indonesia acquire capability to designing and developing along with manufacturing our own jet fighter. Thats why they got in the great lenght to negotiate with Yugoslavia at first then with Britain, and now with South Korean

Covid-19: Indonesia's discussion with Senegal for second CN-235 halted amid travel bans

An Indonesian Navy CN-235-220 maritime patrol aircraft on display while in Singapore.

Negotiations between aerospace company PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) and the Senegalese Air Force (Armée de l’Air du Senegal) for a second CN-235 aircraft have been put on hold amid Covid-19-related travel bans.

These negotiations, which were last described at the Singapore Airshow 2020 in February as reaching the final stages, are now not expected to resume again until 2021, said a PTDI representative who spoke to Janes on 26 May.

Senegal signed for its first CN-235 with PTDI in November 2014 and the airframe was subsequently delivered in January 2017. The aircraft was delivered in the quick-change configuration, and can take on a variety of missions including medical evacuation, general transport duties, and VIP transport.

For the second airframe, the Armée de l’Air du Senegal is considering a maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) variant of the CN-235 that is similar to those in service with the Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia – Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL), said the PTDI representative.

The Armée de l’Air du Senegal has yet to convey their preferences for mission systems that will go onboard the MPA but in TNI-AL service, the CN-235’s sensors include the CAE AN/ASQ-508 magnetic anomaly detector, and Thales Ocean Master or Telephonics APS-143C(V)3 (Batch 2) radar.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/8e724519-ece1-4ff4-82cc-a6a221cf9e20

 

[mandala]

Nope according to this:

"Lebih lanjut, Airlangga merinci, sebanyak 15 proyek berupa pembangunan jalan dan jembatan, lima proyek berupa pembangunan bandara, lima proyek berupa pembangunan kawasan industri, serta 13 proyek berupa pembangunan bendungan dan irigasi. Selain itu ada pula satu proyek berupa pembangunan tanggul laut, tiga proyek pembangunan smelter, satu proyek penyediaan lahan pangan di Kalimantan Tengah, lim proyek pembangunan pelabuhan, dan enam proyek pembangunan infrastruktur kereta api. Selanjutnya ialah 13 proyek pembangunan kawasan perbatasan,12 proyek sumber energi, enam proyek air bersih, satu proyek pengelolaan sampah, dan tiga proyek pengembangan pesawat tanpa awak (drone)."

https://nasional.kompas.com/read/20...royek-strategis-nasional-baru-senilai-rp-1422

Tapi emang sebelumnya KFX masuk PSN?

Oic. Don't know just guessing though.

 

[Nike]

Marines sniper during Timor invasion

Air Force sniper, recently

 

[umigami]

Breaking: Rusia siap mengirimkan produk terbaru Su-35 kepada Indonesia
Oiii... jadi kagak? Digantung terus.
I think the reason why su35 doesn't get canceled yet because we use it as bargaining chip to get Lightning II

 

[Jatosint]

Udah ada yang liat foto kkb dapet peluru grenade launcher ? Polda nyangkal yang bener yang mana ya?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1266587186498920448

Kalau dari yg gua baca dan impretasikan dari pernyataan Polda sih yg mereka sangkal itu klaim bahwa senjata ini diambil dari penyerangan baru-baru ini, but they didn't denied that these criminals have that kind of weapons (ya iyalah, udah ada fotonya kalau mereka emang punya)
https://twitter.com/Jatosint/status/1266587186498920448

 

[Nike]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1266587186498920448

Kalau dari yg gua baca dan impretasikan dari pernyataan Polda sih yg mereka sangkal itu klaim bahwa senjata ini diambil dari penyerangan baru-baru ini, but they didn't denied that these criminals have that kind of weapons (ya iyalah, udah ada fotonya kalau mereka emang punya)

Those armed nuisance still within Brimob capability to handle them. Even gangsta and narco gangs in Vietnam is more heavily armed than them

 

[striver44]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1266587186498920448

Kalau dari yg gua baca dan impretasikan dari pernyataan Polda sih yg mereka sangkal itu klaim bahwa senjata ini diambil dari penyerangan baru-baru ini, but they didn't denied that these criminals have that kind of weapons (ya iyalah, udah ada fotonya kalau mereka emang punya)

thats a very low opsec they got there