Indonesia Defence Forum

[Gaman]

IMO, masalah anggaran/biaya ini jadi concern utama
...
All in all, kalau ternyata Komcad ini makan biaya/energi gede saya pribadi kurang mendukung Komcad, setidaknya untuk sekarang, apalagi ketika tentara regulernya aja masih ngejar kekuatan minimum + masih dalam kondisi surplus prajurit...

Yup. Absolutely right. The budget is the main concern. Everybody agreed. So if concerning the budget is a huge burden, be smart to acquire, plan and using it will be a top priority above all. Smart and smart further.

 

[NEKONEKO]

The way I see it, the main purpose is for internal security, rather than being prepared for human wave attack against near peer or any other enemy (kecuali terdesak), and I don't think that they will get into action. I don't think that they will be actively equipped at all except for uniform, when they are not active they will just back to normal live and back to their jobs, they only serve few months then done, new recruit then come in, and they will use old TNI gun stock (ak47, m16, ss1). More like a boot camp. IMO.

Its like voluntary wamil but in large scale,
For propaganda purpose, increasing the population nationalism and resistance against bad ideology and influence from abroad, and preventing any foreign proxy that try to establish itself here. Its not something that can be bought but need to be build and create dan pastinya butuh uang, as long as we can manage the budget wisely it won't affect much of alutsista procurements, though the regular unit should get budget priority. Maybe could be considered soft flexing too, big population with high patriotism and nationalism spirit could give someone else extra thing to think about.

Eniwei I guess it won't be like in the SK, kalau mereka memang benar-benar wamil, tapi emang karena belum aja kejelasan akan program ini ya publik masih bingung.

Unconventional warfare now is a thing.

 

[san.geuk]

maybe process recruitment will be like a "contract personels" but pararell with reducing teritorial units step by step and reduce regular recruitment in military, so in long term it will reduce 70% of defence budget for "belanja pegawai" without significantly reducing numbers of personels, so the budget will be increase for "belanja barang"

just maybe my personal tought

 

[HellFireIndo]

Indonesian Army, as i remember it, never used human wave tactics, so how did you reach such a conclusion about Sishankamrata?.

 

[NEKONEKO]

Indonesian Army, as i remember it, never used human wave tactics, so how did you reach such a conclusion about Sishankamrata?.

Who are you referring to?

 

[Gaber]

Beneran nie cuy?

 

[umigami]

Beneran nie cuy?

Ada matra beli 10 drone jatuh semua?
RnD bohongan?
Hmmmm.....

 

[Ruhnama]

IMO, masalah anggaran/biaya ini jadi concern utama

Besar biayanya ini akan tergantung nanti Komcad selama 3 bulan dilatih sampai level apa. Basic infantry doang atau ada juga yg dilatih artileri, kavaleri, medis, dsb. Belum kalau ngomongin berapa besar tunjangan yg didapat

Training level ini juga nantinya memperlihatkan kalau ada darurat perang dan Komcad dimobilisasi, apakah Komcad akan bertempur side to side, share the same fox hole dengan TNI reguler, atau 'cuma' jadi lapis sekian, banpur, atau jangan-jangan 'cuma' jadi bekang?

Yang masih belum terjawab juga seperti apa atau adakah jenjang kepangkatan buat komponen Komcad? Bagaimana nanti hubungan kepangkatan Komcad dgn kepangkatan TNI?

Intinya sih masih banyak pertanyaan dan detail yg belum kejawab dan harus nunggu Perpres/PP Komcad keluar dulu

All in all, kalau ternyata Komcad ini makan biaya/energi gede saya pribadi kurang mendukung Komcad, setidaknya untuk sekarang, apalagi ketika tentara regulernya aja masih ngejar kekuatan minimum + masih dalam kondisi surplus prajurit



Our Zeni, SF, and Medical Corps have CRBN capability/training

For regular troops? I don't think so (CMIIW, TNI don't even has standard issued gas mask)

How expensive gas mask?

Btw what if we cut down TNI personel especially army to 200.000 and another 200.000 is reservist? So we change that koramil korem kodim to reservist and army rely on kostrad kavaleri etc.

Btw why we lack naval amd air force personnel

 

[HellFireIndo]

How expensive gas mask?

Btw what if we cut down TNI personel especially army to 200.000 and another 200.000 is reservist? So we change that koramil korem kodim to reservist and army rely on kostrad kavaleri etc.

Btw why we lack naval amd air force personnel

Nah, i personally dont want any cut, we already have a pretty low soldier-citizen ratio, and now we wnt it even lower? what country is this? 4th most populous with such an underwhelming number? If i'm to choose, i would go more into reforming the military organization maybe? the Wehrkreis system that we have is derived from Prussian Canton system, that suits the model of a decentralized countries, like Germany pre-unification, and also, Indonesia in general due to it's geography. So rather than changing the whole doctrine entirely, why not just "modernized" it......as we constantly doing with the introduction of Kostrad for example, we just ned to do the same thing in accordance to current threats, but not dismantling the whole core doctrine thing.

It may not be the best model for contemporary peer-to-peer conflict, but hell how often we fought peer-to-peer these days? Military district is all-around better for country with fractured geography like Indonesia, especially so as we mostly encounters internal threat rather than external one, it made regional control and low-intensity/early military response is possible to execute rapidly while not waiting too long for the central's authority's response.

It may sound like a joke, but in my wargames experience (LOL), having only Division-level units in archipelagic country of Indonesia for a mostly rebel/separatism threat, is very cumbersome to manage, and too slow for such an demanding situation where speed is key, and troops needed are rarely even reach a division level number, Tens of thousands of troops available in one place cannot beat the function of a few thousand troops available anywhere in COIN scenario. But that does not justify low troops number either, as any model, divisional or battallional alike, still needs quantity no matter the doctrine.

Heck man, we already have low budget-to-GDP ratio, and now we put extra on it by having low troops-to-citizen ratio also? we're frickin big and small military for our size is stupid no matter what situation. So more budget, better organization and modernization effort, and same or more troops number, that's it.

 

[Nike]

Nah, i personally dont want any cut, we already have a pretty low soldier-citizen ratio, and now we wnt it even lower? what country is this? 4th most populous with such an underwhelming number? If i'm to choose, i would go more into reforming the military organization maybe? the Wehrkreis system that we have is derived from Prussian Canton system, that suits the model of a decentralized countries, like Germany pre-unification, and also, Indonesia in general due to it's geography. So rather than changing the whole doctrine entirely, why not just "modernized" it......as we constantly doing with the introduction of Kostrad for example, we just ned to do the same thing in accordance to current threats, but not dismantling the whole core doctrine thing.

It may not be the best model for contemporary peer-to-peer conflict, but hell how often we fought peer-to-peer these days? Military district is all-around better for country with fractured geography like Indonesia, especially so as we mostly encounters internal threat rather than external one, it made regional control and low-intensity/early military response is possible to execute rapidly while not waiting too long for the central's authority's response.

It may sound like a joke, but in my wargames experience (LOL), having only Division-level units in archipelagic country of Indonesia for a mostly rebel/separatism threat, is very cumbersome to manage, and too slow for such an demanding situation where speed is key, and troops needed are rarely even reach a division level number, Tens of thousands of troops available in one place cannot beat the function of a few thousand troops available anywhere in COIN scenario. But that does not justify low troops number either, as any model, divisional or battallional alike, still needs quantity no matter the doctrine.

Heck man, we already have low budget-to-GDP ratio, and now we put extra on it by having low troops-to-citizen ratio also? we're frickin big and small military for our size is stupid no matter what situation. So more budget, better organization and modernization effort, and same or more troops number, that's it.

This Ryamizard legacy actually kicking out, he is pushing army to established Kodam strike units in the form of Raider units and forming several strike infantry battalion like Yon mekanis in almost every Kodams although in embrio form in several Kodam. And that too to form several Naval regional units and regional Air defense territory to support them.


But for modernize effort his effort is much less desired ....


The thing is from almost 350,000 army personnel we only had around 150 infantry battalion around twenty mixed cavalry battalion and regiments and several dozens artillery units in all forms thats too with small number of intelligent departemen and other support units. Meanwhile the rest around 120,000-180,000 personnel is lingering in their territorial jobs and had almost same jobs with Babinsa polri. Thats utter wastage of personnel jobs in which i very supportive to reform them and made them to convert into pure combat units and delegate their civillian jobdesk to POLRI.

Actually each kodam only had around a brigade sized combatant units, in which actually we need at least division sized to made them more effective to handle near peer scenario conflict. Even pure combat infantry units is much better compared to current koramil personnel units actually

 

[Raduga]

Indonesian Army, as i remember it, never used human wave tactics, so how did you reach such a conclusion about Sishankamrata?.

What you're going to arm that sishankamrata with , while your voluntary one still struggle to get a better personal equipment .

 

[Nike]

What you're going to arm that komcad with , while your voluntary one still struggle to get better personal equipment

I am more prefer to retired old soldiers early and formulate contract personnel or outsource them outright with benefit like scholarships, skill building and chance to become profesi according to merit and score or better chance to join BUMN after services. Thus we can save funds from pension and other support funds. Actually in US most civillian company prefer ex military personnel because their competency.

Prancis Buka Suara soal Rencana Prabowo Beli 48 Jet Tempur
CNN Indonesia
Jumat, 24/01/2020 07:01
Bagikan :

Duta Besar Prancis untuk Indonesia Olivier Chambard CNN. (Indonesia/Hamka Winovan)

Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- Prancis angkat bicara terkait laporan yang menyebutkan Indonesia berniat membeli 48 jet tempur Rafale, empat kapal selam Scorpene, dan kapal perang korvet GoWind buatan mereka.

Duta Besar Prancis di Jakarta, Olivier Chambard, menyambut baik rencana Indonesia untuk membeli puluhan alat utama sistem pertahanan (alutsista) itu. Menurut Chambard, hal lumrah bagi Indonesia untuk mengembangkan kapasitas militer dan pertahanan.

Rencana itu terungkap tak lama setelah kunjungan Menteri Pertahanan Prabowo Subianto ke Paris pada 11-13 Januari lalu.
Lihat juga:
Prabowo dan Memori Skandal Kapal Selam Prancis
"Indonesia tertarik untuk mengembangkan kapasitas militer dan itu adalah hal natural bagi Jenderal Prabowo bertemu dengan mitra-mitranya di luar negeri termasuk Prancis untuk melihat peluang kerja sama bahkan alutsista seperti apa yang cocok," kata Chambard dalam wawancara eksklusif bersama CNNIndonesia.com di kedutaan besar Prancis, Rabu (22/1).

https://m.cnnindonesia.com/internas...suara-soal-rencana-prabowo-beli-48-jet-tempur

Btw, La Tribune is reputable media compared to RT NEWS or Sputnik, their report on Egypt French deals is actually spot on and too they made comprehensive report about India Rafale deals

 

[Gaman]

Nah, i personally dont want any cut, we already have a pretty low soldier-citizen ratio, and now we wnt it even lower? what country is this? 4th most populous with such an underwhelming number? If i'm to choose, i would go more into reforming the military organization maybe? the Wehrkreis system that we have is derived from Prussian Canton system, that suits the model of a decentralized countries, like Germany pre-unification, and also, Indonesia in general due to it's geography. So rather than changing the whole doctrine entirely, why not just "modernized" it......as we constantly doing with the introduction of Kostrad for example, we just ned to do the same thing in accordance to current threats, but not dismantling the whole core doctrine thing.

It may not be the best model for contemporary peer-to-peer conflict, but hell how often we fought peer-to-peer these days? Military district is all-around better for country with fractured geography like Indonesia, especially so as we mostly encounters internal threat rather than external one, it made regional control and low-intensity/early military response is possible to execute rapidly while not waiting too long for the central's authority's response.

It may sound like a joke, but in my wargames experience (LOL), having only Division-level units in archipelagic country of Indonesia for a mostly rebel/separatism threat, is very cumbersome to manage, and too slow for such an demanding situation where speed is key, and troops needed are rarely even reach a division level number, Tens of thousands of troops available in one place cannot beat the function of a few thousand troops available anywhere in COIN scenario. But that does not justify low troops number either, as any model, divisional or battallional alike, still needs quantity no matter the doctrine.

Heck man, we already have low budget-to-GDP ratio, and now we put extra on it by having low troops-to-citizen ratio also? we're frickin big and small military for our size is stupid no matter what situation. So more budget, better organization and modernization effort, and same or more troops number, that's it.

For several reason, I slightly disagree about still using the Wehrkreis system implemented but shall focus on Kodam capabilities scope derived from Wehrkreis. Implementation should be each kodam as Nike said, have minimum one division which adequate combatant unit which has fast reaction enough to cover their “territorial” area, consist of many composites like the cavalry, artillery, etc. with their good equipment (if we can’t afford excellent for now).

This division using resources from Kodam line downward like Korem, Kodim, and Koramil. So maybe get slimmer but no much size decrease in number. Just reorganize. Replacing. Refinancing. Hardware, Software, Brainware. From a modern perspective, it gains more acceptance than before. More professional. More agile. Better equipment. Even Kogabwilhan could use and have more options in the challenge, whom Naval and Air force are in one command. So shall be better such inter-branch exercise, coordination, communication, intelligence, etc.

Remember, sometimes useful to look from other “helicopter” perspectives instead of our own.
From external, an analyst said "...
The Indonesian Army (Tentara Nasional Indonesia Angkatan Darat, TNI-AD) remains the most influential of the three services. Any analysis of the TNI needs to recognize that Indonesia is very much a defensive, continental power. The TNI-AD has taken some steps towards a more modern, agile and deployable force. However, most of its units remain non-deployable because of ineffective training schemes, lack of financial resources and a territorial command structure more suited to provincial politics than operational effectiveness. Major acquisitions such as new main battle tanks are largely symbolic. Until the TNI-AD addresses the problem of a force that’s too large and expensive, TNI modernization as a whole will remain difficult..."
https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/173326/Moving beyond ambitions_ Indonesia's military modernisation..pdf
From internal in my opinion, more capable and suitable if our internal threat handle by Kodam with integrated modern equipment division rather than nowadays structure. Much more, highly effective in interoperability with other branches like Naval and Air Force in Kogabwilhan command. Our internal homework threat hardly doing by Korem-Kodim-Koramil, just because of their much fewer capabilities on their own.

The really big hurdle here is willing itself. Will Army accept in totally lost control of all of this? Is this worth it or not?

 

[striver44]

How expensive gas mask?

Btw what if we cut down TNI personel especially army to 200.000 and another 200.000 is reservist? So we change that koramil korem kodim to reservist and army rely on kostrad kavaleri etc.

Btw why we lack naval amd air force personnel

I agree, having an army so large in a geographically separated country is ehhh stupid, what are the army going to do? Swim?? The army in sumatra can't support the army in java vice versa. Add that to the low budget we have. We should have invest in the air force and navy instead to hold choke points in which the enemy might want to pass.
Our doctrine should be the utter annihiliation of any amphibious invasion fleet or make it so bloody the enemy would not even consider sending troops across the sea . And for that you'll need a HUGE air force and navy, i mean we're talking like 200+ fighters armed with stand off weapins +awacs+ tanker + frigate with lots and lots of missile carrying capacity.
Look at japan for example, their army is quite moderate at around 200k personell but the jmsdf and the jasdf is world class.
We should invest in the things that matters most.
Its time the army forget the role of keeping indonesia together this is not the 50s anymore where we have a rebellion every once a year.
Huge army have proven useless many time in the past especially when they have no airpower, bad leadership, and no clear idea of what are they suppose to do (which could actually be applied to us also)
Ps:political armies do perform worse than armies that is clearly under a civillian control

 

[mandala]

Longbow Radar for Indonesia.

Contracts For Jan. 24, 2020

ARMY

Longbow LLC, Orlando, Florida, was awarded a $235,794,870 hybrid (cost-no-fee, cost-plus-fixed-fee and firm-fixed-price) Foreign Military Sales (Republic of Korea (South Korea), Greece, India, Indonesia, Kuwait, Netherlands, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, United Arab Emirates and United Kingdom) contract for procurement of production support services for the Fire Control Radar System for the Apache attack helicopter. One bid was solicited via the internet with one bid received. Work locations and funding will be determined with each order, with an estimated completion date of Jan. 31, 2025. U.S. Army Contracting Command, Rock Island Arsenal, Illinois, is the contracting activity (W52P1J-20-D-0009).

https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/2065636//