Indonesia Defence Forum

Raduga · Oct 17, 2019

Gaber said:
I personally prefer Indonesia to work with Turkey on the TFX project even though it's too late...

Im glad it's too late , since tfx project is far more inferior than kfx and still does not have any clear roadmap for their fighter development , also mentioning about their current situation which making it worse to do cooperation with them (atleast for now or maybe one decade ahead)

UMNOPutra · Oct 17, 2019

Gaber said:
I personally prefer Indonesia to work with Turkey on the TFX project even though it's too late...

This is a good opportunity available for Indonesia if you want to exit.….

https://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2019/10/kai-open-to-additional-foreign-partners.html?m=1

initial_d · Oct 17, 2019

UMNOPutra said:
This is a good opportunity available for Indonesia if you want to exit.….

https://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2019/10/kai-open-to-additional-foreign-partners.html?m=1

you wish wkwkwkwkwkwkw not gonna happen lol

cabatli_53 · Oct 17, 2019

Raduga said:
Im glad it's too late , since tfx project is far more inferior than kfx and still does not have any clear roadmap for their fighter development , also mentioning about their current situation which making it worse to do cooperation with them (atleast for now or maybe one decade ahead)

I accept those words as your personnal assumption, since what you tell doesn’t reflect any truth about TF-X program. If you suppose TF-X doesn’t have any solid roadway yet, How can you reach a result to call it as inferior ? That is another side of the coin. Anyway, Your assumption is based on superiority/inferiority equation of two different fighter concept. Acc to you, One aircraft (TFX) having internal weapon wayload, embeded national EW/EO assets inside the fuselage and to be powered with 2x 29000lbf turbofan engines will be inferior than a 4,5 generation aircraft with external weapon payload and to be powered with 2x22000lbf engines. That is not a realistic idea to start with. TF-X MMU official roadway will be as following;

At present, TF-X is in wind tunnel trials.
2023: Roll-out ceremony and commencement of ground tests
2025: First flight
2029: Serial production and delivery phase.

Ruhnama · Oct 17, 2019

cabatli_53 said:
I accept those words as your personnal assumption, since what you tell doesn’t reflect any truth about TF-X program. If you suppose TF-X doesn’t have any solid roadway yet, How can you reach a result to call it as inferior ? That is another side of the coin. Anyway, Your assumption is based on superiority/inferiority equation of two different fighter concept. Acc to you, One aircraft (TFX) having internal weapon wayload, embeded national EW/EO assets inside the fuselage and to be powered with 2x 29000lbf turbofan engines will be inferior than a 4,5 generation aircraft with external weapon payload and to be powered with 2x22000lbf engines. That is not a realistic idea to start with. TF-X MMU official roadway will be as following;

At present, TF-X is in wind tunnel trials.
2023: Roll-out ceremony and commencement of ground tests
2025: First flight
2029: Serial production and delivery phase.

I am sorry mod, what about engine ? Still imported from anotger country right? Since turkish industry as I know not mature enough to make jet engine

And with condition of Turkey politically etc
Tesekur

Cmiiw

(Edit : i must ask this in turkish forum sorry)

Raduga · Oct 17, 2019

cabatli_53 said:
I accept those words as your personnal assumption, since what you tell doesn’t reflect any truth about TF-X program. If you suppose TF-X doesn’t have any solid roadway yet, How can you reach a result to call it as inferior ? That is another side of the coin. Anyway, Your assumption is based on superiority/inferiority equation of two different fighter concept. Acc to you, One aircraft (TFX) having internal weapon wayload, embeded national EW/EO assets inside the fuselage and to be powered with 2x 29000lbf turbofan engines will be inferior than a 4,5 generation aircraft with external weapon payload and to be powered with 2x22000lbf engines. That is not a realistic idea to start with. TF-X MMU official roadway will be as following;

At present, TF-X is in wind tunnel trials.
2023: Roll-out ceremony and commencement of ground tests
2025: First flight
2029: Serial production and delivery phase.

one thing u missed i didn't say TF-X would be inferior but the "project" which circulate among geopolitics , that's why'd i said the current situation is not suitable to do cooperation on scale of fighter development with your countries , atleast for like one decade ahead , especially after your administration do a political stunt and you guys got a massive embargo and sanction hammer from every side , we already seen how hard it is to cooperate for such project even with countries that have no hurdle with the west , no offence TBH .

but i respect you're taking my word as "personal assumption" , im no expert in government admin either , just some random guy who roaming around the internet .

ANMDT · Oct 17, 2019

cabatli_53 said:
I am really shocked about huge amounts of subsystems S. Korea has requested from West. As long as KF-X is subject to foreign licence and export permissions in that level, This aircraft will never serve the partners' benefits. Overall design, stealth fuselage, AESA radar, engine, EO, IRST, Jammer, Flight control, avionics and other materials that is not mentioned in open sources. I really wonder what homegrown system is remained to make a stealth fighter superior when those technologies are licenced from foreign sources. Exporting this aircraft without getting permission from third party countries are impossible. I believe Indonesia should re-consider its decision to get involved into development phase of KF-X program. These aircrafts will only provide more dependence to manufacturers while aiming to become more free on air...

not only in TFX , i was also disappointed about ANKA and other surface combatant deals Indonesia almost hasnt considered Turkey as a partner on deals. I am pretty sure Turkey could provide better ToT and capabilities compared to Damen or any other western/korean shipyards.
Koreans are detailistic in bileteral deals of military products,i am curious how can Indonesian officials deal with it.

Raduga · Oct 17, 2019

ANMDT said:
not only in TFX , i was also disappointed about ANKA and other surface combatant deals Indonesia almost hasnt considered Turkey as a partner on deals. I am pretty sure Turkey could provide better ToT and capabilities compared to Damen or any other western/korean shipyards.
Koreans are detailistic in bileteral deals of military products,i am curious how can Indonesian officials deal with it.

well the makassar class LPD which we already can export and the submarine ToT kinda counteract with your statement .

san.geuk · Oct 17, 2019

as an indonesian i'm also surprised and disappoint CH4 win over ANKA in UCAV procurement, even thought the ANKA has better specification from what i read,

there's some rumors back then, i forgot the source but some forumers says indonesian navy consider U214 made in turkey in joint development project for the next subs project after the second phase of sokor subs, but with recent situation in turkey borders i think our gov will reconsidering turkey in any military development project

Gundala · Oct 17, 2019

cabatli_53 said:
I am really shocked about huge amounts of subsystems S. Korea has requested from West. As long as KF-X is subject to foreign licence and export permissions in that level, This aircraft will never serve the partners' benefits. Overall design, stealth fuselage, AESA radar, engine, EO, IRST, Jammer, Flight control, avionics and other materials that is not mentioned in open sources. I really wonder what homegrown system is remained to make a stealth fighter superior when those technologies are licenced from foreign sources. Exporting this aircraft without getting permission from third party countries are impossible. I believe Indonesia should re-consider its decision to get involved into development phase of KF-X program. These aircrafts will only provide more dependence to manufacturers while aiming to become more free on air...

No stealth technology is going to be shared to Indonesia. Lockheed Martin making sure of that by sending officer to see it. Idk if Korean also got it, the information from media say they didnt have it as well. It means no source code for both countries.

This program was signed on previous government, the current one see that the deal has some disadvantage so they trying to re-negotiate. Regardless the disadvantage the relation between two country is more important (in govt eyes) then the project, so both side trying to balance the deal. Then comes the trade agreement, political agreemant (most likely done under the eyes of the press), etc to smooth thing out.

So yea, its going to be hard to withdraw from it and say move to TFX. Tho the TFX deal look promising (more tech transfer perhaps) but we also must consider the state budget as well. Because it wont be just the development cost, but the commitment to purchase the fighters in huge numbers is essential for it to meet economic scale. I guess dependency on fighters manufacture must wait a little longer due to budget constrain

Nike · Oct 17, 2019

well looking at Financial capability and economy size of south korea Indonesia and sanction laden Turkey, one can see which one who got much probability to succeed their fighter programme. Not to mention the current tech and military embargoed sanction of Turkey.

Raduga · Oct 17, 2019

ANMDT said:
not only in TFX , i was also disappointed about ANKA and other surface combatant deals Indonesia almost hasnt considered Turkey as a partner on deals. I am pretty sure Turkey could provide better ToT and capabilities compared to Damen or any other western/korean shipyards.
Koreans are detailistic in bileteral deals of military products,i am curious how can Indonesian officials deal with it.

don't worry we're still looking forward to do cooperation with your country , just not right now .....

Nike · Oct 17, 2019

Thirty thousand personnel deployed prior to presidential inauguration
17th Oct 2019 14:39

TNI Commander Air Chief Marshal Hadi Tjahjanto delivered a statement during a call ceremony of security preparations ahead of the presidential inauguration at Jakarta on Thursday (17/10/2019). (ANTARA/Boyke L/AK)

Jakarta (ANTARA) - A marked deployment of 30 thousand police and military personnel at national vital locations aims to tighten security prior to the swearing in of President Joko Widodo (Jokowi) for his second and final term on Oct 20.

"Joint personnel from the Indonesian Military (TNI) and National Police (Polri) strengthen security at national vital locations, such as airports, power plants, Pertamina's logistical locations, and financial centers," TNI Commander Air Chief Marshal Hadi Tjahjanto remarked after a call ceremony of security preparations ahead of the presidential inauguration in Jakarta on Thursday.

The security arrangements were tightened since Thursday morning, October 17, 2019, with 30 thousand soldiers stationing themselves at national vital locations.

"What we see this morning is the presence of 30 thousand TNI and Polri soldiers, who are ready to fulfill security duties," he stated.

During the ceremony, the TNI commander reminded the TNI and Polri soldiers as well as other elements to work in tandem to secure vital locations.

"I am certain that you have received orders concerning the duties and responsibilities. You should understand and master the details of these tasks and the rules of engagement in dealing with any development in the situation," he stated.

Furthermore, the unit commander must ensure at all times that his members have a full understanding of the duties and responsibilities at hand.

"You should observe every incoming information and process it carefully. Do not miss out on the slightest bit of intelligence information," the commander emphasized.

Indonesian President-elect Jokowi and Vice President-elect Amin will be inaugurated at the Parliament Building in Jakarta on Sunday, Oct 20, 2019, and guests from friendly countries will also attend the event. Related news: MPR leaders, Jokowi hold discussion on preparations for inauguration

Related news: MPR looks forward to JK's presence at elected president's inauguration

EDITED BY INE

Editor: Fardah Assegaf

COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019

https://m.antaranews.com/en/news/13...l-deployed-prior-to-presidential-inauguration

ANMDT · Oct 17, 2019

Raduga said:
don't worry we're still looking forward to do cooperation with your country , just not right now .....

we have got nothing to worry about, yet in here i wasnt even interested in financial gains but co-development.

san.geuk said:
as an indonesian i'm also surprised and disappoint CH4 win over ANKA in UCAV procurement, even thought the ANKA has better specification from what i read,

there's some rumors back then, i forgot the source but some forumers says indonesian navy consider U214 made in turkey in joint development project for the next subs project after the second phase of sokor subs, but with recent situation in turkey borders i think our gov will reconsidering turkey in any military development project

Hasnt indonesia chosen korean U209 ?
There was something spoken about that but i see indonesian officials are quite hesitant about Turkey, or there are some other dynamics that i cant see or understand with my stance.
Neither U214 nor U209 belongs to turkey or korea, its German design and we cant over ToT but only adaptation of Indonesian subsystems, or same fore Korea.