Indonesia Defence Forum

[SgtGungHo]

Basically it's for a deterrent efect . That's why while asking for a token of F 35 the main goal is another F 16 . whatever series that is . What are we looking for today is number . Either 2 sq of F 16V or lump sum of boneyard relic we could modify later on we go for a broke in this visit . And the assorted support of A&EW to complement the upcoming squadron.... Hell , some also say the navy itching for the poisedon to keep their fleet a float somehow in the SCS . V 22 and chinook was for army flyboys ...

Even that's the reason, a handful of F-35 would not only be very costly to purchase as Indonesia has to buy a totally new package of logistics support, software update and other stuffs that are only good for F-35A. Would an "deterrent effect" justify such spending?

Also the costs of maintanance and others may not be cost-effective for Indonesia as well. It seems Indonesia is far better off if they could spend all their money on buying more F-16V. However, that's just my opinion.

 

[umigami]

Will he fly directly from US?

They said he will spend time in america from 15 to 19, so yeah i guess

 

[SgtGungHo]

Probably submarine from Germany/ France/ Turkey/ South Korea.
It is still possible for more Nagapasa class.

Bigger or not is still unknown, but what we know is that the navy want submarine with capability to launch missile, its unknown though what kind of missile (Ashm / Land attack CM), U209 with sub harpoon also fit their requirements, maybe scorpene with exocet, maybe other submarine.

F35 + LRASM to deal with enemy ships especially ships with advance AAW or Carrier battle group with multi layered air defence.
No need for large number of F35, though is it totally worth it to induct new kind of jet fighter that's only in a small number? same with the planned purchase of EF from Austria)

Didn't Indonesia actually sign a contract for additional ships with South Korea? I mean if Indonesian Navy wants a VLS, it basically rules out Nagapasa-class and German&Turkish submarines. I am not sure if Indonesia could afford anything that is with a VLS from the West.

 

[umigami]

Even that's the reason, a handful of F-35 would not only be very costly to purchase as Indonesia has to buy a totally new package of logistics support, software update and other stuffs that are only good for F-35A. Would an "deterrent effect" justify such spending?

Also the costs of maintanance and others may not be cost-effective for Indonesia as well. It seems Indonesia is far better off if they could spend all their money on buying more F-16V. However, that's just my opinion.

Seems like it's justified in their eyes.
I think logistical Nightmare is not really an issue for our high ranking in MoD. In fact We even consider austrian Typhoon.

Didn't Indonesia actually sign a contract for additional ships with South Korea? I mean if Indonesian Navy wants a VLS, it basically rules out Nagapasa-class and German&Turkish submarines. I am not sure if Indonesia could afford anything that is with a VLS from the West.

It's not effective yet. We can pull out without major consequences.

Not VLS capable, just sub-launch-missile capable.

 

[Nike]

What i can said it is, Prabowo came in prepared and had many bargaining chips on his pocket. There is lot of negotiation, not that we can get everything what we want, but the other sides too want to secure many thing as possible as they can. Win Win Solution and every body smile at the end of time is important here. Prabowo spend a lot of resource to be able to flight directly to USA,surely he is not in the mood for pleasure visit LoL.

 

[Ravager]

Even that's the reason, a handful of F-35 would not only be very costly to purchase as Indonesia has to buy a totally new package of logistics support, software update and other stuffs that are only good for F-35A. Would an "deterrent effect" justify such spending?

Also the costs of maintanance and others may not be cost-effective for Indonesia as well. It seems Indonesia is far better off if they could spend all their money on buying more F-16V. However, that's just my opinion.

Well , some just consider that as a price that had to be pay for a new high spec toy that has bling2 bell and whistles . Awesome capabilities and functions as a deep hostile penetrator aside they argues , sooner or later All the F 16 series are going to be phased out anyway .... So why don't just try to get some of articles early and familiarized with it so we can churning more qualified ( question mark there !! ) operator in house for the future acquitisation .
Budget wise we definitely capable of getting atleast 2 Sq F35 + 2 more sq of F 16V . But taking consideration on supporting infrastructures ( AEW and tankers falls into this catagory ! ) that has to be present accompanying the said machine to fully exploit their capabilities ...something has to give in for the others to come out
Chop some of this and cut some out of there ...
Tadaa ... We all come to this all messed up procurement process schtick and beyond ....

Somehow i'm speechless and loss for the word yet wholly confused about what and where is the direction of our armed forces were going to take ...

Didn't Indonesia actually sign a contract for additional ships with South Korea? I mean if Indonesian Navy wants a VLS, it basically rules out Nagapasa-class and German&Turkish submarines. I am not sure if Indonesia could afford anything that is with a VLS from the West.

Just because we spend so litle in defense spending that doesn't reflect our real capabilities in procurement endeavours ... For arguement sake ...we are a trillion dollar economies

 

[SgtGungHo]

Seems like it's justified in their eyes.
I think logistical Nightmare is not really an issue for our high ranking in MoD. In fact We even consider austrian Typhoon.


It's not effective yet. We can pull out without major consequences.

Not VLS capable, just sub-launch-missile capable.

There is absolutely no logic in buying Typhoon in my opinions as the UK & Germany have demonstarted that it costs ridiculous amount of money to keep their Typhoon fleets active. However, if that's what Indonesia wants...

Are you sure?
Indonesia, South Korea Ink $1 Billion Contract for 3 Diesel-Electric Submarines

Indonesia, South Korea Ink $1 Billion Contract for 3 Diesel-Electric Submarines

The Indonesian Navy is slated to receive three more Nagapasa-class diesel-electric subs by 2026.

thediplomat.com

By the way, that was supposedly a contract for additional 3 submarines. I am not sure how could Indonesia could just "walk away" from the contract without any major consequence even their officials are worrying about it

Two sources at the MoD and the Indonesian Navy confirmed to Jane’s “that among matters being discussed at the moment include legal and financial implications of walking away from the contract that was announced in April 2019.”

Indonesia Is Reconsidering Contract With South Korea for 3 Diesel-Electric Submarines

The Indonesian government is considering cancelling a contract with South Korea for three Nagapasa-class diesel-electric attack subs.

thediplomat.com

A complete mess.

 

[Nike]

Well , some just consider that as a price that had to be pay for a new high spec toy that has bling2 bell and whistles . Awesome capabilities and functions as a deep hostile penetrator aside they argues , sooner or later All the F 16 series are going to be phased out anyway .... So why don't just try to get some of articles early and familiarized with it so we can churning more qualified ( question mark there !! ) operator in house for the future acquitisation .
Budget wise we definitely capable of getting atleast 2 Sq F35 + 2 more sq of F 16V . But taking consideration on supporting infrastructures ( AEW and tankers falls into this catagory ! ) that has to be present accompanying the said machine to fully exploit their capabilities ...something has to give in for the others to come out
Chop some of this and cut some out of there ...
Tadaa ... We all come to this all messed up procurement process schtick and beyond ....

Somehow i'm speechless and loss for the word yet wholly confused about what and where is the direction of our armed forces were going to take ...

There is no confusion at all lah, what not in order is which capability we should acquire first. The end of order is to gain interoperability with our Not So Called Friend, for everything.

There is absolutely no logic in buying Typhoon in my opinions as the UK & Germany have demonstarted that it costs ridiculous amount of money to keep their Typhoon fleets active. However, if that's what Indonesia wants...

Are you sure?
Indonesia, South Korea Ink $1 Billion Contract for 3 Diesel-Electric Submarines

Indonesia, South Korea Ink $1 Billion Contract for 3 Diesel-Electric Submarines

The Indonesian Navy is slated to receive three more Nagapasa-class diesel-electric subs by 2026.

thediplomat.com

By the way, that was supposedly a contract for additional 3 submarines. I am not sure how could Indonesia could just "walk away" from the contract without any major consequence even their officials are worrying about it

Two sources at the MoD and the Indonesian Navy confirmed to Jane’s “that among matters being discussed at the moment include legal and financial implications of walking away from the contract that was announced in April 2019.”

Indonesia Is Reconsidering Contract With South Korea for 3 Diesel-Electric Submarines

The Indonesian government is considering cancelling a contract with South Korea for three Nagapasa-class diesel-electric attack subs.

thediplomat.com

A complete messs.

There is no problem, with the last Submarine of first batch order still being on the run tests they want to sort of things through. In principle, the Parliament and MoD had set aside the budget to built more Submarine in 2021 from 2021 state budget.

Kabar Baik! Proyek Kapal Selam Made in RI Lanjut di 2021

Pemerintah berencana kembali menyuntik PT PAL untuk pengembangan kapal selam.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

But they still want to get more supplier for the rest of the target.

 

[NEKONEKO]

Didn't Indonesia actually sign a contract for additional ships with South Korea? I mean if Indonesian Navy wants a VLS, it basically rules out Nagapasa-class and German&Turkish submarines. I am not sure if Indonesia could afford anything that is with a VLS from the West.

Idk if TNI AL want submarine with VLS.

 

[Ravager]

There is no confusion at all lah, what not in order is which capability we should acquire first. The end of order is to gain interoperability with our Not So Called Friend, for everything.

The only reason my head doesn't explode as yet ...

Idk if TNI AL want submarine with VLS.

It's not a VLS per se ... Their multi mission capabilities that were pursued here . Tomahawk class Long range cruised missille were the lollipop dream candy for the admiralty

 

[umigami]

There is no confusion at all lah, what not in order is which capability we should acquire first. The end of order is to gain interoperability with our Not So Called Friend, for everything.


There is no problem, with the last Submarine of first batch order still being on the run tests they want to sort of things through. In principle, the Parliament and MoD had set aside the budget to built more Submarine in 2021 from 2021 state budget.

Kabar Baik! Proyek Kapal Selam Made in RI Lanjut di 2021

Pemerintah berencana kembali menyuntik PT PAL untuk pengembangan kapal selam.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

But they still want to get more supplier for the rest of the target.

So this will be the last batch for nagapasa class?

 

[Nike]

There is lot of confusion when you quote foreign journos regarding Indonesia procurement policy lately. Heck even we are who closely working with the stakeholder is always being confused with the up and ante.

So this will be the last batch for nagapasa class?

Yes, they want to move up the ladder after getting through with this, but sure they want more number first. Hell, even MoD is in talks to acquire surplus U 209

 

[Ravager]

There is lot of confusion when you quote foreign journos regarding Indonesia procurement policy lately. Heck even we are who closely working with the stakeholder is always being confused with the up and ante.


Yes, they want to move up the ladder after getting through with this, but sure they want more number first. Hell, even MoD is in talks to acquire surplus U 209

Chaotic and maddening was an understatement in +62 procurement process . But , i'm glad .... Atleast we are going and moving somewhere in this prabowo's terms and reluctanly has to give him some credit for it


I still couldn't forgive him though ...

 

[Kansel]

Idk if TNI AL want submarine with VLS.

Negative, they're going for missile equipped submarine doesn't mean they went for VLS equipped submarine.

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https://twitter.com/x/status/1316758274247585795

 

[Nike]

What i can said is Prabowo want to order everything in bulks if possible. He is not fond with previous policy to order everything in batch of few

Chaotic and maddening was an understatement in +62 procurement process . But , i'm glad .... Atleast we are going and moving somewhere in this prabowo's terms and reluctanly has to give him some credit for it


I still couldn't forgive him though ...

He is more fond to order everything by bulks if possible. The recent case of munition order and Maung, along with work for nine surface warships at once is the proof.