Indonesia Defence Forum

[Chestnut]

Here you go as well.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/angola-vs-india-spliting-the-two-su30-blood-lines.675324/

 

[Gundala]

Lmao, let's not flatter ourselves here, in the current state Australia has more than enough to stop us death miles away from their shores. Other than China, the other main reasons for Marine RTF Darwin is to train the Australian Army 2nd RAR battalion to transform them into amphibious warfare specialist as part of Australian Army's 2011 plan Beersheba. If you really want to go back, Australia was also a big supporter of our independence from the Dutch and one of the factions that also pushed Dutch into negotiation when it comes to Irian Jaya. Further, Initially, the Australian government tried their best to keep quiet on East Timor, that until we killed 5 of their citizens that got their population riled up. Do not dwell, but be mindful of the history, but as of now, our interest happens to be in line with them. It is only right that we do our best to capitalise on it.

Sure man, I am sorry if I dwell the history. But that US Marines deployment was also raise a concern for Pak Gatot our former Panglima, tho Im pretty sure he has been told that it was to balance China and training purposes. Yeah they prolly can stop us death miles away from the shore so they shouldnt be worry too much right?

Sure Australia was big supporter of our independence from dutch also Irian jaya. Prolly the main reason was they dont want unstable hot zone right across their yard? Protecting their own interest perhaps? Just dont tell me the reason they did that because they love us so much.

Australia tried their best to keep quiet on East Timor? Oh at this point I am almost sure they love us very much. But the 1972 treaty between Indonesia and Australia has placed most of the oil and gas reserves in the Timor sea in Australia's hands. Yeah they support East Timor integration to Indonesia might be for a reason. Then I ask my self, how about Bayu-Undan field? or perhaps the Greater Sunrise field? I said to my self this prolly the reason behind being silent part, perhaps they dont love us that much. But Im sure they didnt come to east timor under UN flag for peacekeeping. Securing their Bayu-Undan field perhaps? or future oil/gas reserves that is already in their hand?

I honestly dont know man but looking at the news below it prolly can give us a slight clue on what kinda game they are playing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ustralias-immoral-behavior-toward-east-timor/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia–East_Timor_spying_scandal

Again Im sorry if my view to Ausie is different, maybe I am wrong...

 

[Indos]

This part is intellectually dishonest, because it ignores the reason why those sanctions happened in the first place. Had the Suharto regime NOT overreacted and attempted to silence foreign journalists, and had Suharto's children not actively meddled in the nation's economy, we would not have had sanctions in the first place. It was just as much our fault as it were US meddling.

Furthermore, it goes without saying that the planes that flew strikes over Aceh even during the sanctions and did intercept jobs were the F-16's. As much as certain people like to claim otherwise, the fact that these strikes and interceptions occur meant that the US was still supporting the F-16 per their specified contracts even during the sanctions.

https://sinarpidie.co/news/saat-konflik-dulu-tni-juga-gunakan-serangan-udara/index.html

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jul-05-fg-indo5-story.html

The sanction is more because of USSR has been finished and USA doesnt need Indonesia anymore. That was the time where US become the sole superpower. When they see what our soldiers did in East Timor, the shooting of the protester, then they dont think twice to put sanction to us. We know very well Western nations has Christian sentiment, and this thing can happen again if we make a mistake in Papua.

Talking about the strike in Aceh, as far as I know TNI use Hawk there, not F 16. There is possibility that the reporter made a mistake, but if it is true so it is not really impossible since we still have at least 2 F 16 that was operational in 2003.

Your statement saying US still support Indonesia F 16 during sanction is a blatant lie. I dont know why you always support US, even saying US democracy as better than us despite use unfair electorate collage system.

The truth is only 2 F 16 that were still operational during Bawean incident, where some of the F 16 are being cannibalized to make 2 F16 still operational, and the rest are grounded. I even see on my eyes the photo of TNI AU cannibalized F 16 (in Angkasa magazine if I am not mistaken). There is a program being taken after US lifted the sanction to make several cannibalized F 16 live again.

Defense Journalist who are quite old enough can confirm that the US and British embargo have affected our Air Force readiness. And Hawk 200/100 are the planes that are relied during embargo period since the numbers at that time are quite many, around 40. This is also why we put Hawk, not F 16 in NTT during our hot moment with Australia when East Timor transition period. There is also incident where our Hawks chase Australian F 18 during that time.

Just hear it starting at 1.42

 

[Gen3115]

The sanction is more because of USSR has been finished and USA doesnt need Indonesia anymore. That was the time where US become the sole superpower. When they see what our soldiers did in East Timor, the shooting of the protester, then they dont think twice to put sanction to us. We know very well Western nations has Christian sentiment, and this thing can happen again if we make a mistake in Papua.

Talking about the strike in Aceh, as far as I know TNI use Hawk there, not F 16. There is possibility that the reporter made a mistake, but if it is true so it is not really impossible since we still have at least 2 F 16 that was operational in 2003.

Your statement saying US still support Indonesia F 16 during sanction is a blatant lie. I dont know why you always support US, even saying US democracy as better than us despite use unfair electorate collage system.

The truth is only 2 F 16 that were still operational during Bawean incident, where some of the F 16 are being cannibalized to make 2 F16 still operational, and the rest are grounded. I even see on my eyes the photo of TNI AU cannibalized F 16 (in Angkasa magazine if I am not mistaken). There is a program being taken after US lifted the sanction to make several cannibalized F 16 live again.

Defense Journalist who are quite old enough can confirm that the US and British embargo have affected our Air Force readiness. And Hawk 200/100 are the planes that are relied during embargo period since the numbers at that time are quite many, around 40. This is also why we put Hawk, not F 16 in NTT during our hot moment with Australia when East Timor transition period. There is also incident where our Hawks chase Australian F 18 during that time.

Just hear it starting at 1.42

If I can tell you anything, we had more than 2 F-16's operational at the time just sayin'. Yea the embargo did effect us a bit but not to the point where only had 2, the bigger reason why we had low readiness and availability was this

I don't remember anyone saying we had only 2 F-16's available at the time or that it was mostly because of the embargo, curious who said that?

 

[Indos]

2 F 16 that is still operation is in my memory. I cannot give prove as I read it some where, most probably in Angkasa Magazine. What ever the spare parts that actually being bought, cannot deny the fact that several cannibalized F 16 can only be repaired after the sanction are lifted.

 

[Gen3115]

2 F 16 that is still operation is in my memory. I cannot give prove as I read it some where, most probably in Angkasa Magazine. What ever the spare parts that actually being bought, cannot deny the fact that several cannibalized F 16 can only be repaired after the sanction are lifted.

ok

 

[Indos]

Liputan Khusus
Kisah Embargo AS dan Sukhoi Rusia di Balik Jet Tempur RI
Anggi Kusumadewi, Resty Armenia, CNN Indonesia | Rabu, 02/03/2016 14:03 WIB

Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- “Presiden Soekarno berpesan, bangsa Indonesia harus menguasai teknologi udara dan maritim. Apalagi Indonesia bangsa yang besar. Kalau mau bertahan, jelas mesti kuat pertahanan udaranya.”

Direktur Teknologi dan Pengembangan PT Dirgantara Indonesia, Andi Alisjahbana, melontarkan hal itu dalam wawancaranya dengan CNNIndonesia.com, Jumat (19/2).

“Lalu kenapa harus mengembangkan jet tempur? Tentu karena itu salah satu alat tempur utama di udara. Yang menentukan menang-tidaknya Sekutu atau Jepang dalam Perang Dunia II adalah pertempuran maritim dan udara,” ujar Andi. (Simak Fokus: JET SILUMAN 'BUATAN' INDONESIA)
Lihat juga:
Jet Tempur RI Buatan 'Sendiri' Mengangkasa 9 Tahun Lagi Mencapai kemandirian menjadi kata kunci. Jika hanya membeli persenjataan dari negara lain, kata Andi, sudah pasti Indonesia akan tergantung pada negara itu. Terlebih jika menyangkut alat utama sistem senjata (alutsista) berteknologi tinggi.

“Beli senjata ke Amerika, ya akan tergantung kepada Amerika. Kalau hubungan Indonesia dengan Amerika sedang baik, tak apa-apa. Tapi kalau tiba-tiba bermasalah lalu diembargo, jadi tidak ada dukungan persenjataan,” kata Andi.

Hal itu pernah terjadi pada 1995 sampai 2005 saat Indonesia diembargo militer oleh Amerika Serikat. AS menyetop penjualan senjata, termasuk tak mau memberikan suku cadang yang diperlukan Indonesia untuk meremajakan pesawat-pesawat TNI yang dibeli dari mereka.

Embargo ketika itu dijatuhkan lantaran Negeri Paman Sam menuduh Indonesia melanggar hak asasi manusia dengan menembaki demonstran di Dili, Timor Timur (kini Timor Leste), pada 12 November 1991.

Sepuluh tahun embargo AS, ujar Andi, membuat kekuatan tempur udara Republik Indonesia mengalami kemerosotan tajam. Banyak pesawat tempur TNI Angkatan Udara harus di-grounded lantaran tak punya suku cadang.

Hal itu misalnya menimpa setengah lusin F-16 Fighting Falcon, sejumlah armada F-5 Tiger, sampai pesawat angkut militer C-130 Hercules yang seluruhnya buatan AS. Lebih parah lagi, beberapa pesawat Hawk 109/209 buatan Inggris –sekutu AS– yang dimiliki TNI juga ikut terkena embargo.

Embargo membuat banyak pesawat militer RI tak bisa diterbangkan sekalipun kondisinya baik, bahkan tergolong baru. Alhasil sia-sia saja memiliki armada tempur jika banyak yang tak bisa digunakan untuk menjaga kedaulatan wilayah Indonesia.

Sistem pengaman

Indonesia lantas mencari akal. Tahun 2003, tahun kedelapan masa embargo AS, pemerintah RI membeli pesawat Sukhoi dari Rusia –negara di kubu berseberangan dengan AS. Indonesia pun kini memiliki satu skuadron lengkap Sukhoi.

“Apa yang dilakukan Indonesia ketika itu seperti membuat dua sistem: satu tergantung kepada Amerika, satu kepada Rusia. Ada Sukhoi, ada F-16 (buatan AS). Kalau Amerika mengembargo sehingga F-16 tidak bisa terbang, masih ada Sukhoi,” kata Andi.

Sesungguhnya embargo militer merugikan AS sendiri. Perusahaan-perusahaan negara adidaya itu yang bergerak di industri penerbangan jadi kehilangan salah satu pasar potensial. Mereka tak bisa menjual alutsista dan suku-suku cadang kepada Indonesia.

Embargo akhirnya dicabut tahun 2005. Namun Indonesia tetap mempertahankan dua sistem tersebut sebagai “tali pengaman.”

Target Indonesia selanjutnya adalah menjaga kesinambungan alat-alat tempur yang dimiliki dalam keadaan krisis.

“Ini yang paling utama. Indonesia berhak untuk mempertahankan diri dari ancaman luar,” ujar Andi.
Lihat juga:
Incar Teknologi Jet Tempur, Indonesia Hendak Beri Efek Gentar Tahap berikutnya ialah mencapai kemandirian. “Masih panjang perjalanan Indonesia untuk mandiri. Tapi setidaknya negara ini bisa bertahan dalam keadaan krisis. Semisal ada pertempuran sampai 10 tahun, minimal pesawat Indonesia tidak kehabisan peluru dan suku cadang. Di situ letak kesinambungannya,” kata Andi.

Kesinambungan dan kemandirian tersebut terkait erat satu sama lain. Untuk mencapai kedua hal itu, Indonesia –setelah serangkaian proses– menerima tawaran Korea Selatan untuk bersama-sama mengembangkan teknologi pesawat tempur Korea Fighter Xperiment/Indonesia Fighter Xperiment (KF-X/IF-X).

"Korea antusias dan percaya dengan Indonesia," ujar Andi.

Indonesia menerima tawaran Korea Selatan mengembangkan pesawat tempur KF-X/IF-X untuk mencapai kemandirian industri pertahanan. (Dok. PT Dirgantara Indonesia)
Wakil Ketua Komite Kebijakan Industri Pertahanan (KKIP) Eris Herryanto mengatakan, tak mudah bagi Indonesia dan Korea Selatan untuk sampai pada tahap kerja sama seperti sekarang ini.



Perbedaan sistem, perbedaan tujuan, dan perbedaan posisi dalam mendapat teknologi, membuat Jakarta dan Seoul mesti saling berkompromi dan menyamakan persepsi.

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...go-as-dan-sukhoi-rusia-di-balik-jet-tempur-ri

 

[Gepee.Jp]

Army Reserve Component Program

Just got from WAG, Target for this year is 15.000 komcad.
Just want to know, according to information above, are this trully Komcad or just like previous Defence Minister program (Bela Negara) ?

Just New here so, please be nice to me ...

 

[Nike]

BTW, and now you want to depend on South Korean technology to get free of shackle of US embargoe nightmare? When the Korean itself is one of US hardcore staunch ally more than what Australian can offer on their history (as South Korean independence and survival is largely thanks to US support till today) get real man. Lol.

 

[Alex898]

all this Russian and US jets in our inventory thing, how long do we plan to keep doing this ? its gonna cost us even when we reach Rp. 200T in our budget, because seems like those people in our MoD and Parlemen want to make an arm race in the AU, for the sake of geopolitics. sooner or later this thing need to be stopped if we plan to at least being on par with aussie or spore AF. because do you guys honestly believe that we can challenge them Air Force when our defense system is not even integrated?
I hope those people in Mod just made their mind already about who is our real enemy. because if you think one or two, or even 4 squadrons of flankers can deter Australian or Spore Air force, then you are a joke. if the government think our enemy is those two country, better equip the flanker with russian awacs, buy s400, and etc, and tell CAATSA to go to hell.

BTW, and now you want to depend on South Korean technology to get free of shackle of US embargoe nightmare? When the Korean itself is one of US hardcore staunch ally more than what Australian can offer on their history (as South Korean independence and survival is largely thanks to US support till today) get real man. Lol.

LOL completely agreee, they think Sokor will always say yes for us.

 

[Indos]

BTW, and now you want to depend on South Korean technology to get free of shackle of US embargoe nightmare? When the Korean itself is one of US hardcore staunch ally more than what Australian can offer on their history (as South Korean independence and survival is largely thanks to US support till today) get real man. Lol.

The reason we have joint venture with Korea in KFX/IFX program is for the long term vision, not short term. Just think 25 years from now where Indonesia is projected to become number 4 in nominal GDP. That should be the time where we should make our jet fighter with our own subsystem. Think strategically. Step by step. And this is the first step.

Thats why I hope our defense budget should give enough budget for R&D. Critical R&D in quantum radar for instant is not being conducted, for example. My cousin who conducted radar research in Gov research agency see it as very crucial, since it is a new area in radar research, and this is our opportunity to be in the same level with Western nation in radar technology.

 

[Nike]

Army Reserve Component Program

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Just got from WAG, Target for this year is 15.000 komcad.
Just want to know, according to information above, are this trully Komcad or just like previous Defence Minister program (Bela Negara) ?

Just New here so, please be nice to me ...

This a truly reserve units program not seremonial stuff

The reason we have joint venture with Korea in KFX/IFX program is for the long term vision, not short term. Just think 25 years from now where Indonesia is projected to become number 4 in nominal GDP. That should be the time where we should make our jet fighter with our own subsystem. Think strategically. Step by step. And this is the first step.

Thats why I hope our defense budget should give enough budget for R&D. Critical R&D in quantum radar for instant is not being conducted, for example. My cousin who conducted radar research in Gov research agency see it as very crucial, since it is a new area in radar research, and this is our opportunity to be in the same level with Western nation in radar technology.

Well where is our share in the KFX subsystem development? Where is our IP right lies? where is our right and share where KFX can be exported toward other countries though we paid 20 percentage of programs development? Just answer those basic question first?

 

[Alex898]

The reason we have joint venture with Korea in KFX/IFX program is for the long term vision, not short term. Just think 25 years from now where Indonesia is projected to become number 4 in nominal GDP. That should be the time where we should make our jet fighter with our own subsystem. Think strategically. Step by step. And this is the first step.

Thats why I hope our defense budget should give enough budget for R&D. Critical R&D in quantum radar for instant is not being conducted, for example. My cousin who conducted radar research in Gov research agency see it as very crucial, since it is a new area in radar research, and this is our opportunity to be in the same level with Western nation in radar technology.

sir, even if we had our experients in developing KFX, even in the next 25 years, we still need guidance from other country, there's just no way that we could develop it onn our own, and that will create another dependency. we need allies in developing such technologies, and KFX is a good first step, but we need more project like KFX, thus we need good allies, and then here comes another dependency thing.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Is it really possible that we're going to get Duke-class Type 23 Frigates?

 

[Indos]

Well where is our share in the KFX subsystem development? Where is our IP right lies? where is our right and share where KFX can be exported toward other countries though we paid 20 percentage of programs development? Just answer those basic question first?

Thats is why I also suggest that in the renegotiation, we should get 20 % TOT and some work share in subsystems that are part of development cost. IP rights IMO is only for the technology that Indonesian engineers contribute, this is why in the first team sent to Korea, there are lawyers as well.

But regarless we get IP rights or not on the design, we will likely to get the blue print. From that blue print we can use it for making our own jet fighter in the future as a base design. Just like how we can easily develop N 219 after manufacturing and developing C 212.

Export license IMO is not really necessary as long we can get TOT and workshare on critical subsystems that are being developed by Korea. We just have 20 % share, remember ???

sir, even if we had our experients in developing KFX, even in the next 25 years, we still need guidance from other country, there's just no way that we could develop it onn our own, and that will create another dependency. we need allies in developing such technologies, and KFX is a good first step, but we need more project like KFX, thus we need good allies, and then here comes another dependency thing.

If not 25 years from now, then it can be 30 years from now. If not 100 %, at least 60 %. As I said, step by step, and we cannot get anything if we dont take the first step.