Indonesia Defence Forum

[Raduga]

https://autotekno.sindonews.com/rea...-pastikan-pindad-tak-kantongi-izin-1595333252

Maung Pakai Mesin Hilux, Toyota Pastikan Pindad Tak Kantongi Izin

JAKARTA - Polemik yang melibatkan PT Pindad dan PT Toyota Astra Motor terkait kendaraan rantis ' Taktis' si Maung yang menggunakan mesin Hilux terus menggelinding. Usut punya usut ternyata TAM selaku pemegang merek Toyota di Indonesia tidak dimengeluarkan izin terkait penggunaan mesin Hilux di Maung.

Head of Media Relation Toyota-Astra Motor Aska Dimas menegaskan TAM sebagai pemegang merek Toyota di Indonesia tidak mengetahui bahwa mesin Hilux digunakan di Maung.

'' Sejauh ini, mereka 'Pindad' tidak mengajukan izin ke TAM, tapi kita akan cek terkait hal ini, pasalnya Pindad kan berada di Bandung, kita akan koordinasi dengan pihak Toyota di Jawa Barat,'' tutur Dimas kepada SINDOnews Selasa 21/7/2020.
BACA JUGA - Indonesia Belum Punya Pabrik Mesin, Alasan Pindad Comot Mesin Toyota

Dimas menegaskan pada prisipnya Toyota siap membantu Pemerintah jika memang dibutuhkan. '' Toyota pada prinsipnya siap membantu jika negara membutuhkan, apalagi itu berkaitan dengan perkembangan otomotif nasional, Toyota siap membantu,'' tegas Dimas.
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[san.geuk]

To be fair they still learn and even contribute into the program, but from what I heard they're not getting their worth for 20% of the stake in the program and for 20% don't get you much in the first place. I am aware of the SoKor defence page on facebook and put it this way, if both Indonesian insiders and the South Korean defence page who has connections are saying the same thing about the program, why are some people still putting a lot of faith in this program?

To be honest, I still hope the government wakes up and make up their mind about this, but they can't because of the risk of pulling out (arbitration, cancellation fees, etc). I'm hoping they at least renegotiate for a better deal at the very least before manufacturing of KFX starts in 2026 (if all goes smoothly)

I dont know with TOT but PTDI will absolutely get valuable design experience while working in KFX/IFX program. We will get blue print that will also be valuable if we want to make similar program in the future with Indonesia as senior partner. This is how we can make N 250 after JV with Cassa in CN 235 program. N 219 is also easier to be design after we get experience producing NC 212 under license.

About our contribution, dont trust fanboys opinion but rather listen to what people behind the program said. I still remember Indonesian Head engineer for KFX/IFX said that in the first time Korean dont believe with Indonesian engineers capability but as Indonesian engineers proves otherwise during the R&D and then Korean start to believe Indonesian engineers. He said that Max Take off ratio for example used Indonesian opinion and there was debate with Korean engineer at that time. It was stated in Angkasa if I am not mistaken. And it was before 2015.

We can see more information if we use Google, and there are more than 100 Indonesian engineers there and this is what we can get from Linkedin from just one engineer and he is quite young.

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I dont want to show the name as it is related to my Linkedin connection.

My responsibility in KFX/IFX Program is about doing experimentation in the field of Aerodynamics especially Wind Tunnel & Water Tunnel Test.
What we do here are:
- Making accurate model for testing.
- Making data acquisition and data processing program for force & moment and pressure test.
- Preparing aerodynamics flow visualization test.
- Validating Test Result.

Starting June 2019, I have been assigned to Program Management Office at KFX/IFX Program to handle:
- Project Plan and Control of Aircraft Development Section at Program Integration Management.
- Industrial Liaison at Industrial Collaboration.

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More view from Anne Kusmayanti, Head of Ministry of Defense Reseach and the one who is responsible with KFX/IFX program.

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In making the prototype of the multi-fighter aircraft, according to Head of the Ministry of Defense's Research and Development Agency Anne Kusmayati, PTDI will make wings, boosters at the bottom of the wing and tail.

Work on KF-X / IF-X fighter jets will be centered in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, South Korea, the city which is the headquarters and main factory of Korea Aerospace Industries.

A total of 200 Indonesian engineers have gradually departed for Sacheon for one or two years. At first they will design the aircraft design. The engineers will also participate in designing all aircraft components.

Of the total workers of the two countries involved in the making of KF-X / IF-X, 30 percent are more from Indonesia and the majority of the rest are from South Korea. This is also the reason for making aircraft centered on Sacheon, not in Indonesia.

The proportion of more than 30 percent of Indonesian engineers involved in working on the KF-X / IF-X actually increased from the original amount of 20 percent. The addition of Indonesian workers occurred as time went by cultivation.

"It signifies that Indonesian engineers count on Korea. There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities. So Korea does not take Indonesia lightly, "Anne said.

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...ur-ri-buatan-sendiri-mengangkasa-9-tahun-lagi

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we share our knowlage and experiance to contribute but then why we still can't access their technology, that's is my concern, if the reason is we just pay 20% of the project as a junior partner, meanwhile they reject bigger offer from Turkey for equal partner is it this whole thing become an akal-akalan korsel to reduce their kfx production cost? in one side they wanted an achievement for their country, but they need reduce the production cost so they get Indonesia as their junior partner, they believe PT DI engeeners just a newbie in aerospace industry, apparantly they wrong, our engeeners better than they thought, so we ask for more technological share for that 20% contribution apparantly they reject our request, so the rest that happen today, we haven't pay our share yet..

this is just my assumtion

https://autotekno.sindonews.com/rea...-pastikan-pindad-tak-kantongi-izin-1595333252

Maung Pakai Mesin Hilux, Toyota Pastikan Pindad Tak Kantongi Izin

JAKARTA - Polemik yang melibatkan PT Pindad dan PT Toyota Astra Motor terkait kendaraan rantis ' Taktis' si Maung yang menggunakan mesin Hilux terus menggelinding. Usut punya usut ternyata TAM selaku pemegang merek Toyota di Indonesia tidak dimengeluarkan izin terkait penggunaan mesin Hilux di Maung.

Head of Media Relation Toyota-Astra Motor Aska Dimas menegaskan TAM sebagai pemegang merek Toyota di Indonesia tidak mengetahui bahwa mesin Hilux digunakan di Maung.

'' Sejauh ini, mereka 'Pindad' tidak mengajukan izin ke TAM, tapi kita akan cek terkait hal ini, pasalnya Pindad kan berada di Bandung, kita akan koordinasi dengan pihak Toyota di Jawa Barat,'' tutur Dimas kepada SINDOnews Selasa 21/7/2020.
BACA JUGA - Indonesia Belum Punya Pabrik Mesin, Alasan Pindad Comot Mesin Toyota

Dimas menegaskan pada prisipnya Toyota siap membantu Pemerintah jika memang dibutuhkan. '' Toyota pada prinsipnya siap membantu jika negara membutuhkan, apalagi itu berkaitan dengan perkembangan otomotif nasional, Toyota siap membantu,'' tegas Dimas.
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for 500 units, it would be stupid if Toyota reject it

 

[nufix]

for 500 units, it would be stupid if Toyota reject it

Still, apparently PINDAD still posses the karoseri mentality where you can just create a "new" car with bits of other vehicles. When ANOA was developed, did they consult with Renault? As far as I know, the license to use the engine actually came later after PINDAD was committed to mass producing ANOA.

 

[Nike]

we share our knowlage and experiance to contribute but then why we still can't access their technology, that's is my concern, if the reason is we just pay 20% of the project as a junior partner, meanwhile they reject bigger offer from Turkey for equal partner is it this whole thing become an akal-akalan korsel to reduce their kfx production cost? in one side they wanted an achievement for their country, but they need reduce the production cost so they get Indonesia as their junior partner, they believe PT DI engeeners just a newbie in aerospace industry, apparantly they wrong, our engeeners better than they thought, so we ask for more technological share for that 20% contribution apparantly they reject our request, so the rest that happen today, we haven't pay our share yet..

this is just my assumtion



for 500 units, it would be stupid if Toyota reject it

Total sales of Hilux reach number Ten thousand in Indonesia, 500 actually peanuts. But they will not find trouble over it as it is our defense program, initiate by the Army and had been given green light by MoD (and along with scores of active generals behind them) and Toyota as business entity must known with whom they not messed up in this country if they still want to conduct business with peace in mind.

 

[NEKONEKO]

I think PINDAD and Toyota can resolve this issue, no biggie.
Toyota need to maintain their public image, those that backing maung is not just oknum any more but bigger than that, I think Toyota don't want to be digoyang by them, putting pressure on Toyota also not good for our image when we try to lure more investment from abroad.

'' Toyota pada prinsipnya siap membantu jika negara membutuhkan, apalagi itu berkaitan dengan perkembangan otomotif nasional, Toyota siap membantu,''
Yup no biggie.

 

[Nike]

I think PINDAD and Toyota can resolve this issue, no biggie.
Toyota need to maintain their public image, those that backing maung is not just oknum any more but bigger than that, I think Toyota don't want to be digoyang by them, putting pressure on Toyota also not good for our image when we try to lure more investment from abroad.

'' Toyota pada prinsipnya siap membantu jika negara membutuhkan, apalagi itu berkaitan dengan perkembangan otomotif nasional, Toyota siap membantu,''
Yup no biggie.

Yup, it is not oknum scale but had become National defense program, Toyota i think will keep silent over it and put a smiling face even when PINDAD and MoD not saying anything anymore.

 

[Kansel]

Anyone want to grab Abrams? They can use bio diesel apparently

There's plan for additional MBT's actually, the original plan is to procure additional MBT's in MEF phase II, but apparently we don't have Minister of Defence back then

welcome to our page,

thats perhaps the simple explanation, typhoon always considered as interceptor in their homeground

Because that's the plan, Interceptor SQ for Kohanudnas

 

[NEKONEKO]

Yup, it is not oknum scale but had become National defense program, Toyota i think will keep silent over it and put a smiling face even when PINDAD and MoD not saying anything anymore.

View attachment 653323 View attachment 653324

Point number 5.
He he BOI...
What is possible defense industry collaboration with them? Or Technology that we can/should obtain from them through ToT?

After cooperation with SK and TR lets see what we can get with this cooperation with Ukraine.

 

[Kansel]

Point number 5.
He he BOI...
What is possible defense industry collaboration with them? Or Technology that we can/should obtain from them through ToT?

After cooperation with SK and TR lets see what we can get with this cooperation with Ukraine.

If I'm not wrong, there's ongoing Missile projects cooperation with Ukraine. I don't know the exact thing too bad.

 

[Raduga]

If I'm not wrong, there's ongoing Missile projects cooperation with Ukraine. I don't know the exact thing too bad.

we could acquire or even license produce (with TOT of course) motor sich MS-400 engine which implemented on their latest neptune Anti ship missile for our cruise missile development .
http://www.motorsich.com/eng/products/aircraft/tde/ms400/

 

[joesatriyono]

welcome to our page,

thats perhaps the simple explanation, typhoon always considered as interceptor in their homeground

so this is my opinion, now we have very urgent need for this skadron 14 interceptor, while procuring new aircraft will take at least 3-4 year after deal signed, put rafale for india and su-35 for egypt as example. so, this 15 unit of EF thing are big deal, i know, upgrading to tranche 3 will be ridiculously expensive but we don't need to upgrade this plane up to that point, we can just put this up to tranche 2 block 10 for example, specification wise, this upgrade will be more less same specification as our f-16 falcon star upgrade, which can be done by our technician. it's still expensive tho, but this can be our stop gap if we really want to learn f 35-viper-IFX cross-platform weapon interconnectedness

There's plan for additional MBT's actually, the original plan is to procure additional MBT's in MEF phase II, but apparently we don't have Minister of Defence back then

Because that's the plan, Interceptor SQ for Kohanudnas

kohanudnas? so they will have "their own" squadron? i thought this guy that will operate SAM system?

 

[Kansel]

kohanudnas? so they will have "their own" squadron? i thought this guy that will operate SAM system?

Yes, they want to revive Wing 300 sq, the plan for this appeared around 2014, even tho i thought the plan was scrapped
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.anta...udnas-tni-sangat-perlukan-pesawat-buru-sergap

 

[Raduga]

so this is my opinion, now we have very urgent need for this skadron 14 interceptor, while procuring new aircraft will take at least 3-4 year after deal signed, put rafale for india and su-35 for egypt as example. so, this 15 unit of EF thing are big deal, i know, upgrading to tranche 3 will be ridiculously expensive but we don't need to upgrade this plane up to that point, we can just put this up to tranche 2 block 10 for example, specification wise, this upgrade will be more less same specification as our f-16 falcon star upgrade, which can be done by our technician. it's still expensive tho, but this can be our stop gap if we really want to learn f 35-viper-IFX cross-platform weapon interconnectedness



kohanudnas? so they will have "their own" squadron? i thought this guy that will operate SAM system?

the next long range SAM and anti ballistic missile procurement project most likely going to be given under the responsibility of army , some source said it will be under Kodam arhanud or Kostrad will create new unit for this .

 

[NEKONEKO]

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It seems that the Exocet is removed during the repair.

 

[umigami]