Indonesia Defence Forum

[Gen3115]

You're right, PAC-3 is primarily for engaging missiles and are quad packed onto a canister as a result, althought they are still capable of engaging aircraft. But the reason why I support getting PAC-3's over the PAC-2's or the SAMP/T is because the combination or PAC-3's and NASAMS 2's + Oerlikons + AAW frigates make for an all-round IADS setup. And for the most part, we have zero TBM/cruise missile defense capability currently, and in a war against the PLA, you'd see them being a very common threat.

After I thought about it, actually make sense, since we're a maritime country most aerial threats are probably going to fly over the sea, so as long the AAW Frigates have long range SAM's like Aster-30 or SM-2's (which I still have doubts they will get) they can be the first layer of defense (other than fighter aircraft), the land based NASAMS 2 with shorter range can handle them if they get closer and the PAC-3's + Oerlikon's can handle the missiles if they get launched. Might be wrong on this one though

But still though I'd prefer we get both PAC-3 and PAC-2 if possible just so we'll have more options to shoot down missiles and/or the aircraft at way longer ranges, also if we are looking for long range land-based air defense system, the PAC-3 really isn't it considering its function and shorter range, CMIIW here

 

[Raduga]

i kinda getting mental with this aussies whenever a post about our military procurement in social media (example instagram) , they always brag about "Australia Aid Money" .

 

[Nike]

After I thought about it, actually make sense, since we're a maritime country most aerial threats are probably going to fly over the sea, so as long the AAW Frigates have long range SAM's like Aster-30 or SM-2's (which I still have doubts they will get) they can be the first layer of defense (other than fighter aircraft), the land based NASAMS 2 with shorter range can handle them if they get closer and the PAC-3's + Oerlikon's can handle the missiles if they get launched. Might be wrong on this one though

But still though I'd prefer we get both PAC-3 and PAC-2 if possible just so we'll have more options to shoot down missiles and/or the aircraft at way longer ranges, also if we are looking for long range land-based air defense system, the PAC-3 really isn't it considering its function and shorter range, CMIIW here

When the Indonesian Airforce made US air Force command and control as their template, using Nasaams and subsequently Patriots is natural. The only difference is Indonesians keep using Europe NATO member made Ground control interception radar as their primary radar units

i kinda getting mental with this aussies whenever a post about our military procurement in social media (example instagram) , they always brag about "Australia Aid Money" .

Those bollock keep in denial stage

 

[Jatosint]

i kinda getting mental with this aussies whenever a post about our military procurement in social media (example instagram) , they always brag about "Australia Aid Money" .

When the Indonesian Airforce made US air Force command and control as their template, using Nasaams and subsequently Patriots is natural. The only difference is Indonesians keep using Europe NATO member made Ground control interception radar as their primary radar units

Those bollock keep in denial stage

Don't they realize that they need Indonesia in case a war broke out between China and US? Don't they realize that their country will be in grave danger if Indonesia becomes a failed or radical state? Seburuk-buruknya itu Aid bisa dilihat sebagai 'iuran keamanan' yang ujung2nya buat mereka juga


Btw, can you share the link to the social media post?

 

[Raduga]

Don't they realize that they need Indonesia in case a war broke out between China and US? Don't they realize that their country will be in grave danger if Indonesia becomes a failed or radical state? Seburuk-buruknya itu Aid bisa dilihat sebagai 'iuran keamanan' yang ujung2nya buat mereka juga


Btw, can you share the link to the social media post?

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https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/20...last-week-while-we-delivered-320m-in-aid.html

 

[Chestnut]

After I thought about it, actually make sense, since we're a maritime country most aerial threats are probably going to fly over the sea, so as long the AAW Frigates have long range SAM's like Aster-30 or SM-2's (which I still have doubts they will get) they can be the first layer of defense (other than fighter aircraft), the land based NASAMS 2 with shorter range can handle them if they get closer and the PAC-3's + Oerlikon's can handle the missiles if they get launched. Might be wrong on this one though

But still though I'd prefer we get both PAC-3 and PAC-2 if possible just so we'll have more options to shoot down missiles and/or the aircraft at way longer ranges, also if we are looking for long range land-based air defense system, the PAC-3 really isn't it considering its function and shorter range, CMIIW here

It's not a matter of IF we're allowed to (considering the US is more than willing to sell us the F-35 if we buy a ton of F-16V's), but rather whether the Navy would be willing to use a common missile as the Air Force and whether or not political fuckery *cough* corruption *cough* from the boomers in power would intervene. The EU defense mafia is pretty strong here. And THALES and MBDA will fight Raytheon tooth and nail for contracts unless a firm no is made by the service.

i kinda getting mental with this aussies whenever a post about our military procurement in social media (example instagram) , they always brag about "Australia Aid Money" .

Don't they realize that they need Indonesia in case a war broke out between China and US? Don't they realize that their country will be in grave danger if Indonesia becomes a failed or radical state? Seburuk-buruknya itu Aid bisa dilihat sebagai 'iuran keamanan' yang ujung2nya buat mereka juga


Btw, can you share the link to the social media post?

Who cares, just let them. It's not a distinct us vs. them thing, their netizens do the same thing towards the US and their NATO allies even though 90% of their stuff is US supplied. At the end of the day what's so different between them and the "rUsSia tMn lAMa kT nkRi hArGa mAtI haNcUrKAn aMriK!!1!1" crow we have in a lot of formils? They're both just prideful, egotistical, idiots who never bothered to read or study anything and aren't really worth your time.

If you guys have the time to read, here are two things that explains the value of IADS. They also talk about (at the time formidable) the Iraqi "KARI" Integrated Air Defense System, its strengths, its weaknesses, and how political meddling in their doctrine, lack of training, and non-standardization of equipment led to its failure.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/air-defence.htm
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Gulf_War,_Iraqi_integrated_air_defense_system
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Integrated_air_defense_system
https://www.defensenews.com/digital...art-strategies-not-only-stealth-and-standoff/
https://philarchive.org/archive/RADAOI

 

[Gen3115]

It's not a matter of IF we're allowed to (considering the US is more than willing to sell us the F-35 if we buy a ton of F-16V's), but rather whether the Navy would be willing to use a common missile as the Air Force and whether or not political fuckery *cough* corruption *cough* from the boomers in power would intervene. The EU defense mafia is pretty strong here. And THALES and MBDA will fight Raytheon tooth and nail for contracts unless a firm no is made by the service.

I was more worried about budget rather than US approval, I don't really have doubts about whether the US would sell us stuff, its just whether the money is going to be there is what I'm more worried about

i kinda getting mental with this aussies whenever a post about our military procurement in social media (example instagram) , they always brag about "Australia Aid Money" .

Don't they realize that they need Indonesia in case a war broke out between China and US? Don't they realize that their country will be in grave danger if Indonesia becomes a failed or radical state? Seburuk-buruknya itu Aid bisa dilihat sebagai 'iuran keamanan' yang ujung2nya buat mereka juga

Best to just ignore them, I've faced a few on social media and a couple of times in real life and worse that it was in Bali (I mean imagine you're in someone elses country but you're also disrespecting the country you're in). I do find it sad however that some of these types of Aussies I've encountered social media are actual veterans. But again, I've already explained to them a lot of times about how Australian aid is only at around $300m USD and rarely or never really used for defense. But again, better to just ignore them, sooner or later they will realize they will need us in the coming future

 

[Chestnut]

I was more worried about budget rather than US approval, I don't really have doubts about whether the US would sell us stuff, its just whether the money is going to be there is what I'm more worried about

I'm somewhat more optimistic about US purchases now the Prabowo is adamant about implementing multi-year projects and how the US government is willing to fund them through the FMF program. Again the reason you don't see much US procurement isn't because it's expensive (US equipment is cheaper than EU equipment) but rather because it's more transparent and as a result harder to corrupt.

Best to just ignore them, I've faced a few on social media and a couple of times in real life and worse that it was in Bali (I mean imagine you're in someone elses country but you're also disrespecting the country you're in). I do find it sad however that some of these types of Aussies I've encountered social media are actual veterans. But again, I've already explained to them a lot of times about how Australian aid is only at around $300m USD and rarely or never really used for defense. But again, better to just ignore them, sooner or later they will realize they will need us in the coming future

Most vets are like that, it's why you should always take anything a veteran says about overall defense with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that military service =/= competency in defense policy/procurement, its the reason why most of the successful defense procurement projects around the world are done under civilian educated defense ministers.

 

[Nilgiri]

Again the reason you don't see much US procurement isn't because it's expensive (US equipment is cheaper than EU equipment) but rather because it's more transparent and as a result harder to corrupt.

So true...

 

[mandala]

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If we look closely there is what looks like a new sensors on each Guardians. Anyone know what it is? Ada semacam pentil.

Before there was none.

 

[Jatosint]

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If we look closely there is what looks like a new sensors on each Guardians. Anyone know what it is? Ada semacam pentil.

View attachment 627294

Before there was none.

View attachment 627295

I think it's already there since our Apache arrived, in your 2nd pic its cover is not opened. This is a close-up view from US Army's Apache. Looks like it's some kind of censor

 

[Kansel]

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[Jatosint]

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Rumor said that the Army didn't want M109 in the first place and they didn't satisfied with its performance. That's the reason why we never saw M109 involved in Army's Latihan Ancab or TNI's Latgab

Anyone can confirm this? and which Yonarmed is M109 currently operated by?

 

[Chestnut]

Rumor said that the Army didn't want M109 in the first place and they didn't satisfied with its performance. That's the reason why we never saw M109 involved in Army's Latihan Ancab or TNI's Latgab

Anyone can confirm this? and which Yonarmed is M109 currently operated by?

Can confirm. The M113 and the M109 is the result of a corruption deal between a VERY high ranking Army officer and a local agent.

There was no formal requirement for them as the Army had already operated the CAESAR. It's why the Cavalry rejected the M113's and they went to the infantry.

 

[Jatosint]

Can confirm. The M113 and the M109 is the result of a corruption deal between a VERY high ranking Army officer and a local agent.

There was no formal requirement for them as the Army had already operated the CAESAR. It's why the Cavalry rejected the M113's and they went to the infantry.

Yes

But if I'm not mistaken, in the leaked 2020-2024 procurement plan (once uploaded by IG @military_buzz and i think has been uploaded here) there is a plan to buy another battery of M109 for Pusdikarmed