Indonesia Defence Forum

[Chestnut]

Hmmm...
US light tank Mobility Protection Firepower (MPF) by General Dynamic
View attachment 626751

Don't you know? If the the US DoD doesn't spend ALL of its budget, they risk having the next year's budget being reduced.

Jokes aside, never understood why the US Army is so adamant about it. A lot of think tanks and defense observers agree that the MPF is a Department of Defense procurement cash cow; a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. For the most part, there isn't really anything it can do that the Abrams, Bradley, Stryker Dragoon, MGS, or a Carl Gustav/AT4 can't do. The argument is that they are going to use it for near-pear enemies, but the reality is that it's already woefully outgunned then the buying it in the first place is already ridiculous. And if it's for enemies that don't organic armor assets or their own, then it's even more ridiculous. Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that Infantry with precision munitions + GPS guided artillery shells can flatten out bunkers and heavily entrenched city blocks without risking a vehicle be de-tracked. The incoming service of infantry-based loitering munitions is also going to make these things obsolete real quick.

Also for the Carl Gustav part, you guys should check out what a Carl Gustav HEAT round can do to bunkers. Really puts a lot of FSV's to shame.

View attachment 626775 View attachment 626776 View attachment 626777 View attachment 626778
Credit to Fb page Lightning II Chan

Just hope the Air Force fully integrates it with the Oerlikons and GCI radars to create a real IADS. I am fully in the "Literally just give the Air Force either the SAMP/T or the Patriot because unlike the Army they actually know and understand the value of data-linking and networking all of their assets together to form a cohesive defense against a potential adversary" camp.

 

[Gaman]

Kemenhan Pesan Tank dan Panser Cobra ke PT Pindad
Reporter:
Ahmad Fikri (Kontributor)
Editor:
Rahma Tri
Jumat, 12 April 2019 18:13 WIB
TEMPO.CO, Bandung - Menteri Pertahanan Ryamizard Ryacudu baru saja meneken kontrak pembelian alutsista produksi PT Pindad, senilai US$ 215 juta. "Ini termasuk Medium Tank produk kerja sama PT Pindad dan FNSS Turki yang dinamai Tank Harimau. Kemudian kita buat sendiri. Kebetulan yang beri nama Harimau ini kita,”
Direktur Bisnis Dan Pertahanan Keamanan PT Pindad, Widjajanto mengatakan, ...Sementara nilai kontrak pengadaan Tank Harimau sebesar US$ 135 juta.
AHMAD FIKRI

https://bisnis.tempo.co/read/1195158/kemenhan-pesan-tank-dan-panser-cobra-ke-pt-pindad/full&view=ok

Actually i want ask chestnut how could pindad wrong in designing tank that unfit for Indonesian crew. Likely everything designed with anthropometry etc (i just learn about it) and what is another kaplan faulty.

Likely, but considering the MT is forced onto the cavalry and not out of a genuine want from PUSENKAV, it wouldn't be hard to force them to use a wheeled FSV.

Tell that to PUSENKAV, they told me and my old boss themselves.

As we know, to make and produce national pride like this, through some hard process should involving military requirements which in this case represented by Pussenkav for sure.

https://books.google.co.id/books?id...ep of battle tank development process&f=false

All of the quotes above lead to a big question here, where is Pussenkav when Pindad and FNSS plan to produce this tank ? or just ignorance to pursue our dream of defense industry autonomy?

This video state that this MT designed for southeast Asia environment like here in Indonesia.

What are we missed here?

 

[Gen3115]

View attachment 626780

Yea I've seen this photo before, but even Malaysian members told me they were photoshopped, I'm not sure myself though

 

[Being-Art]

View attachment 626780




View attachment 626780




View attachment 626780

Actually, Hawk 100/200 is capable to fitted by AShM, like Sea Eagle at centreline hardpoints

 

[Being-Art]

Yea I've seen this photo before, but even Malaysian members told me they were photoshopped, I'm not sure myself though

Yep thats photoshop, Gempurwira also edited Su-30MKM fitted by AMRAAM Missile :v

 

[Raduga]

View attachment 626775 View attachment 626776 View attachment 626777 View attachment 626778
Credit to Fb page Lightning II Chan

talking about NASAMS , here's a mockup from Nammo (subcontractor of key technology in AMRAAM missile) , AMRAAM-ER .

with that ramjet propulsion , i believe surface launched AMRAAM-ER could reach to the point of hundred miles range, i see a bright future for our NASAMS fleet , considering it was also a fairly new system with a lot customer , availabilty and after sales performance should be great , i'd say this probably one of the MEF program that actually hit the spot rightly .

imagine a surface launched ramjet AMRAAM with two - five times range performance than original with solid fuel booster , that would be a good one platform for all multilayered air defense , also not mention a wide range of missile variation that nasams can launch in the future such as IRIS-T

Im waiting for more gebrakan from air force , since they are probably the geekiest and know about current tech and geopolitics.

just say goodbye already with the eastern SAM tech with their Es telungatus patangatus series

https://defpost.com/u-s-norway-collaborating-explore-advanced-solid-fuel-ramjet-technologies/
https://resources.mynewsdesk.com/image/upload/t_attachment/nkxlp5vparjbrsikb6we.pdf
https://www.kongsberg.com/globalass...8_2019-brosjyre-nasams-air-defence-system.pdf​

 

[Nike]

talking about NASAMS , here's a mockup from Nammo (subcontractor of key technology in AMRAAM missile) , AMRAAM-ER .

with that ramjet propulsion , i believe surface launched AMRAAM-ER could reach to the point of hundred miles range, i see a bright future for our NASAMS fleet , considering it was also a fairly new system with a lot customer , availabilty and after sales performance should be great , i'd say this probably one of the MEF program that actually hit the spot rightly .
View attachment 626850
View attachment 626864
imagine a surface launched ramjet AMRAAM with two - five times range performance than original with solid fuel booster , that would be a good one platform for all multilayered air defense , also not mention a wide range of missile variation that nasams can launch in the future such as IRIS-T

Im waiting for more gebrakan from air force , since they are probably the geekiest and know about current tech and geopolitics.

just say goodbye already with the eastern SAM tech with their Es telungatus patangatus series
View attachment 626892

https://defpost.com/u-s-norway-collaborating-explore-advanced-solid-fuel-ramjet-technologies/
https://resources.mynewsdesk.com/image/upload/t_attachment/nkxlp5vparjbrsikb6we.pdf
https://www.kongsberg.com/globalass...8_2019-brosjyre-nasams-air-defence-system.pdf​

Lack of funding killing them

 

[Raduga]

Lack of funding killing them

which one ? the nasams or the air force procurement projection ?

as for the missile above , the mockup showdown are fairly new like 3-5 days ago , latest news they're still ongoing RnD and dubbed the modified AMRAAM as THOR-ER hypersonic kill munition
https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/usa-norway-to-continue-thor-er-hypersonic-work/137987.article
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ad-to-develop-solid-fuel-ramjet-technologies/
https://www.janes.com/article/95736...ration-on-sfrj-technologies-under-thor-er-api​

 

[Nike]

which one ? the nasams or the air force procurement projection ?

as for the missile above , the mockup showdown are fairly new like 3-5 days ago , latest news they're still ongoing RnD and dubbed the modified AMRAAM as THOR-ER hypersonic kill munition
https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/usa-norway-to-continue-thor-er-hypersonic-work/137987.article
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ad-to-develop-solid-fuel-ramjet-technologies/
https://www.janes.com/article/95736...ration-on-sfrj-technologies-under-thor-er-api​

For current year program will be hold

 

[Raduga]

For current year program will be hold

that was expected , atleast the base platform for future sishanud commonality goes to the right wallet .

 

[Chestnut]

For current year program will be hold

Considering the base infrastructure has been constructed and the program has been going on since the past 2 years, I'd assume we have already paid the dues and are just awaiting deliveries.

 

[striver44]

View attachment 626775 View attachment 626776 View attachment 626777 View attachment 626778
Credit to Fb page Lightning II Chan

So i will be a fixed AA site? I thought being fixed is a vulnerablity these days ??

 

[Cromwell]

Don't you know? If the the US DoD doesn't spend ALL of its budget, they risk having the next year's budget being reduced.

Jokes aside, never understood why the US Army is so adamant about it. A lot of think tanks and defense observers agree that the MPF is a Department of Defense procurement cash cow; a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. For the most part, there isn't really anything it can do that the Abrams, Bradley, Stryker Dragoon, MGS, or a Carl Gustav/AT4 can't do. The argument is that they are going to use it for near-pear enemies, but the reality is that it's already woefully outgunned then the buying it in the first place is already ridiculous. And if it's for enemies that don't organic armor assets or their own, then it's even more ridiculous. Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that Infantry with precision munitions + GPS guided artillery shells can flatten out bunkers and heavily entrenched city blocks without risking a vehicle be de-tracked. The incoming service of infantry-based loitering munitions is also going to make these things obsolete real quick.

Also for the Carl Gustav part, you guys should check out what a Carl Gustav HEAT round can do to bunkers. Really puts a lot of FSV's to shame.


Just hope the Air Force fully integrates it with the Oerlikons and GCI radars to create a real IADS. I am fully in the "Literally just give the Air Force either the SAMP/T or the Patriot because unlike the Army they actually know and understand the value of data-linking and networking all of their assets together to form a cohesive defense against a potential adversary" camp.

Idk about SAMP/T however long before this COVID 19 pandemy i've posted the planning for 5 medium range air defence battalions and 2 detachments of long range air defence. Rumour i've read was about more NASAMS and likely PAC-3 but again this was just a rumour a while ago.

So i will be a fixed AA site? I thought being fixed is a vulnerablity these days ??

Teluk Naga

talking about NASAMS , here's a mockup from Nammo (subcontractor of key technology in AMRAAM missile) , AMRAAM-ER .

with that ramjet propulsion , i believe surface launched AMRAAM-ER could reach to the point of hundred miles range, i see a bright future for our NASAMS fleet , considering it was also a fairly new system with a lot customer , availabilty and after sales performance should be great , i'd say this probably one of the MEF program that actually hit the spot rightly .
View attachment 626850
View attachment 626864
imagine a surface launched ramjet AMRAAM with two - five times range performance than original with solid fuel booster , that would be a good one platform for all multilayered air defense , also not mention a wide range of missile variation that nasams can launch in the future such as IRIS-T

Im waiting for more gebrakan from air force , since they are probably the geekiest and know about current tech and geopolitics.

just say goodbye already with the eastern SAM tech with their Es telungatus patangatus series
View attachment 626892

https://defpost.com/u-s-norway-collaborating-explore-advanced-solid-fuel-ramjet-technologies/
https://resources.mynewsdesk.com/image/upload/t_attachment/nkxlp5vparjbrsikb6we.pdf
https://www.kongsberg.com/globalass...8_2019-brosjyre-nasams-air-defence-system.pdf​

If you could remember my postings months ago there were proposals mainly from Belarus about SAM though nothing serious considerations taken by MoD

 

[MZmpt]

Don't you know? If the the US DoD doesn't spend ALL of its budget, they risk having the next year's budget being reduced.

Jokes aside, never understood why the US Army is so adamant about it. A lot of think tanks and defense observers agree that the MPF is a Department of Defense procurement cash cow; a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. For the most part, there isn't really anything it can do that the Abrams, Bradley, Stryker Dragoon, MGS, or a Carl Gustav/AT4 can't do. The argument is that they are going to use it for near-pear enemies, but the reality is that it's already woefully outgunned then the buying it in the first place is already ridiculous. And if it's for enemies that don't organic armor assets or their own, then it's even more ridiculous. Iraq and Afghanistan has shown that Infantry with precision munitions + GPS guided artillery shells can flatten out bunkers and heavily entrenched city blocks without risking a vehicle be de-tracked. The incoming service of infantry-based loitering munitions is also going to make these things obsolete real quick.

Also for the Carl Gustav part, you guys should check out what a Carl Gustav HEAT round can do to bunkers. Really puts a lot of FSV's to shame.


Just hope the Air Force fully integrates it with the Oerlikons and GCI radars to create a real IADS. I am fully in the "Literally just give the Air Force either the SAMP/T or the Patriot because unlike the Army they actually know and understand the value of data-linking and networking all of their assets together to form a cohesive defense against a potential adversary" camp.

I heard that the US offered the latest Patriot + TOT to turkey in a much better offer than the S-400 for about 1 billion more, and guess what? Instead of 2 system they would get 4 for only $3.5 billion instead of 2 system for $2.5 billion that the russian were offering, And on top of that the american were open for the idea of ToT instead of the russian that reportedly refuse ToT
But of course reis erdogan the magnificent unsuprisingly rejected it. It would've been great if we manage to push similar kind of deal like the US offered to the turks. But hey, maybe thats a dream too big since we're not a member of nato, but i guess we'll be lucky afterall if we could secure 2 patriot systems and a dozen of pac-3 and gem-t under $4.5 billion!

 

[Chestnut]

Idk about SAMP/T however long before this COVID 19 pandemy i've posted the planning for 5 medium range air defence battalions and 2 detachments of long range air defence. Rumour i've read was about more NASAMS and likely PAC-3 but again this was just a rumour a while ago.


Teluk Naga


If you could remember my postings months ago there were proposals mainly from Belarus about SAM though nothing serious considerations taken by MoD

From what I've been told the military prefers the Patriot. But we'll see if cooler heads prevail.

I heard that the US offered the latest Patriot + TOT to turkey in a much better offer than the S-400 for about 1 billion more, and guess what? Instead of 2 system they would get 4 for only $3.5 billion instead of 2 system for $2.5 billion that the russian were offering, And on top of that the american were open for the idea of ToT instead of the russian that reportedly refuse ToT
But of course reis erdogan the magnificent unsuprisingly rejected it. It would've been great if we manage to push similar kind of deal like the US offered to the turks. But hey, maybe thats a dream too big since we're not a member of nato, but i guess we'll be lucky afterall if we could secure 2 patriot systems and a dozen of pac-3 and gem-t under $4.5 billion!

2 PAC-3 Patriot batteries + several NASAMS 2's + Oerlikons + GCI radar + common MICA SHORAD is already a formidable IADS setup. It somewhat mimics the Dutch IADS model (which is considered among the best in Europe) and can definitely exceed the MEF requirements for the next several years (upgrades permitting). You integrate that together with the Navy's AAW frigates and along with F-16's and AWACS, you basically have the most credible air defense deterrent in the SEA region. And that's not including datalinking with USPACAF and the RAAF, which would then pretty much deny the PLAAF air superiority in any peer-2-peer conflict.

Pic related, it's a lineup of the Dutch Army's AD equipment.