Indonesia Defence Forum

[san.geuk]

Let the AF to operates MERAD and LORAD and not the army, give the army some portable and mobile shorad to protect their ground units. Manpads and self propelled SAM.

......

This kind of mindset should get rid from the army if we want our military completely profesional soldiers, the unecesary competition among brach were based historical event not a real-time strategic or tactical context, some hirank in the army seems maintained this old concept, the mod and panglima should use their position to get rid this kind of concept

 

[umigami]

The Air Force is buying the NASAMS and the Army was looking at the Patriot/MEADS, SAMP/T, and the S-400 in a future competition.

Army operating SAM?
Dan berkewajiban menjaga ruang udara?
Is that make any sense?
Or it's just me...

 

[Chestnut]

It doesn't but we all know the army has a disproportionate amount of influence in the Defense Ministry so waht can you do?

At the end of the day I don't really care who gets the SAMS as long as we use a common missile for the three services. The current procurement process is a big joke.

 

[san.geuk]

Army operating SAM?
Dan berkewajiban menjaga ruang udara?
Is that make any sense?
Or it's just me...

Here we go again,
That's is why lot of us wandering seriousness level of our modernization our arms forces, not only alutsista but also system, mindset and human resources

 

[NEKONEKO]

Its not like the army have their own early warning radar or even will get their own AWACS and interceptor (jet fighter) . Meanwhile the AF already have some equipment and human resources for air defense.
The army want to be included in kohanudnas? Aren't they still need to coordinate with the AF so they won't accidentally shootdown civilian planes?
If the army have spare money and want to spent it for high profile purchases, they could spent it on gunships, armored vehicles, or artys.
If it's just for a small group of people to get some share on the pies... well SAD, if its their planned doctrine and strategy, then I need their explanation.

In the first place is the rumour even legit?

 

[striver44]

The army want to be included in kohanudnas? Aren't they still need to coordinate with the AF so they won't accidentally shootdown civilian planes?
If the army have spare money and want to spent it for high profile purchases, they could spent it on gunships, armored vehicles, or artys.

Arms procurement never worked that way in here, very very inefficient as always.
The army dont want if the other two branches getting more attention and ehmmm funding

 

[Chestnut]

Well if they buy an entire system it would include the relevant radars as part of their purchase. But yes, it should go into the Air Force. I could be wrong and the SAM competition is an Air Force competition, but with the way things are here (such as the fact the army bought patrol boats and ended up sinking a few of them due to lack of experience) I might be right.

 

[NEKONEKO]

Arms procurement never worked that way in here, very very inefficient as always.
The army dont want if the other two branches getting more attention and ehmmm funding

Well they gonna need to prepare themself, because with Poros Martim Dunia - GMF, it will be a game changer Navy will get more attention little by little, time has changed its not enough to be only inward looking, time to think on regional scale.

I think its about the quality of the ship.
Though I think its okay for Army to have KMC Komando and use it for riverine unit, I would like to see the navy have their own Riverine Squadrons just like the USN, not just only regular unit that patrolling river like polair, but they are qualified for some high-end missions too.

 

[Kansel]

Y'all confused? Don't you guys already seen Army procurement Planning for the next 4 years? There's SAM so I don't get confused about Army operating SAM but more onto S400 included on tender.

And also i heard some rumour that Pindad gonna have a very big competition with CSG (Czechoslovak group), they already invest such big number to here anyway

 

[striver44]

, it will be a game changer Navy will get more attention little by little, time has changed its not enough to be only inward looking, time to think on regional scale..

How can the Navy achieve attention while most of our cabinet is consisted of ex army general turned politician?

 

[Nike]

Y'all confused? Don't you guys already seen Army procurement Planning for the next 4 years? There's SAM so I don't get confused about Army operating SAM but more onto S400 included on tender.
View attachment 625558

And also i heard some rumour that Pindad gonna have a very big competition with CSG (Czechoslovak group), they already invest such big number to here anyway

Competition is always good lah, PINDAD technology is stuck at basic manufacturing level. Actually to invite foreign arms company to invest their manufacturing plant here is should be a priority, they bring experience and technology . We are being behind of Vietnam in this regard, Damen shipyard investing a lot in Vietnam and they exporting a lot of products

How can the Navy achieve attention while most of our cabinet is consisted of ex army general turned politician?

Being an army shouldn't be a problem as even in the US, army retired politicians is dominating their political landscape. The problem is their mindset and obsolote thinking just look at Gatot Nurmantyo

 

[Jatosint]

Maybe, besides the possibility of inter-service rivalry and incompetence decision, the army thinks that AF air defense umbrella cannot keep up with the movement of their ground troops since currently AF doesn't operate or plan to buy (CMIIW) any 'real' mobile medium-long range air defense system ('Real' mobile = bisa siap nembak dalam waktu singkat atau bahkan fire while moving + punya speed yg cukup buat keep up sama infantri/kavaleri AD. Yang jelas bukan NASAMS/Skyshield diangkut Hino dan harus diturunin dulu baru bisa nembak). Thus, our army think that they should buy it for themselves which if it did happen, it will probably similar to the Russian Army's air defense troops with operates various air defense system from Shilka to S-300

So yeah, maybe AF should also buy a real mobile medium-long range air defense system

 

[Kansel]

Competition is always good lah, PINDAD technology is stuck at basic manufacturing level. Actually to invite foreign arms company to invest their manufacturing plant here is should be a priority, they bring experience and technology . We are being behind of Vietnam in this regard, Damen shipyard investing a lot in Vietnam and they exporting a lot of products

I agree, i hope there's more competition like this so our Defence industries will push their capabilities to the max and innovate more.

Well, akhir-akhir ini suka denger rumor tentang pindad sih, mereka udah was was abis sama CSG ini dan kabarnya untuk pasar dalam negeri aja harimau bisa ga terlalu sukses.

Denger denger Div 3 lebih mau MBT sih, ya tapi rumor cuma sebatas rumor

 

[Chestnut]

Its great that you guys agree that competition and foreign bidding is good for business. I see a lot of people on formils constantly parroting that inviting foreign defense companies is a bad idea because of 'antek asing'

I agree, i hope there's more competition like this so our Defence industries will push their capabilities to the max and innovate more.

Well, akhir-akhir ini suka denger rumor tentang pindad sih, mereka udah was was abis sama CSG ini dan kabarnya untuk pasar dalam negeri aja harimau bisa ga terlalu sukses.

Denger denger Div 3 lebih mau MBT sih, ya tapi rumor cuma sebatas rumor

When I met somebody from PUSENKAV awhile ago, they seem to really not want to use the Kaplan. Among the things that they dislike about it is the size (the average indonesian soldier can't see out of the slits due to the vehicle being designed around the average Turkish male), operational costs, and that they'd rather have a competition in which they would get their input on what kind of vehicle should replace the AMX and the Scorpion. The Kaplan MT is pretty much forced onto the Cavalry forces due to political meddling.

Whether or not they want MBT's is a mixed response (though it could have changed by now), around the time I was working with them, half the people wanted more (composed of mostly the younger officers) and the other half wanted smaller FSV's akin to the AMX (composed of the boomers and those who served in Aceh).

 

[Nike]

I agree, i hope there's more competition like this so our Defence industries will push their capabilities to the max and innovate more.

Well, akhir-akhir ini suka denger rumor tentang pindad sih, mereka udah was was abis sama CSG ini dan kabarnya untuk pasar dalam negeri aja harimau bisa ga terlalu sukses.

Denger denger Div 3 lebih mau MBT sih, ya tapi rumor cuma sebatas rumor

Tanfoglio Indonesia or Komodo armaments is an example, they got great products with modern manufacturing plant. When pitted the products between two, you should know which one is better