Indonesia Defence Forum

[umigami]

Indonesia abandons Su-35 purchase plan, seeks greater military cooperation with France to procure Rafale Jet, Scorpene-class submarine and Gowind-class Corvette: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...ne-class-submarine-and-gowind-class-corvette/

Goodbye Flanker E...
You hardly missed here..

 

[NEKONEKO]

Indonesia abandons Su-35 purchase plan, seeks greater military cooperation with France to procure Rafale Jet, Scorpene-class submarine and Gowind-class Corvette: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...ne-class-submarine-and-gowind-class-corvette/

Can't wait for the official statement.
Actually Indonesia is only 'interested' in Rafale, SU35 is still in a limbo but not out of the game yet.

 

[striver44]

Just a friendly reminder that indonesia "interested" in iver huidtfeldt class back in 2016 after similar incident with chinese CG, now it's 2020.

It maybe took years for the rafale deal to materialize . Just my bet tho

 

[Chestnut]

Can't wait for the official statement.
Actually Indonesia is only 'interested' in Rafale, SU35 is still in a limbo but not out of the game yet.

I wouldn't trust the French article so much, it comes off more as an opinion piece than an actual wishlist from our government.

I honestly don't believe that we'd actually buy the Rafale. The Scorpene has merit but honestly the Rafale and Gowind seems like it isn't going to go anywhere. For the most part, the AU had been closely following the Indian MRCA program and saw where it went with their Rafale order.

The Rafale isn't much of an improvement over the F-16, so why would buying a jet that is more expensive over the F-16 and then having to set up the relevant supporting infrastructure as well as retraining of crews be something that's high on their list. The reality is that the AU LOVES the F-16, and it's going to be here for more years to come.

The Gowind is also not much of an improvement over the SIGMA 10514's, they share the same sensors and weapon complement and it makes no sense to purchase them when obtaining more SIGMA's or local design would be a better run for the money due to economy of scale. As much as we like to say that our government and military officials often times lack common sense they are not at Indian/Arab level yet when it comes to weapons purchasing, especially not those from the AU or the AL, as commonality is much more important in their operations than their AD counterparts.

 

[Nike]

 

[Kansel]

The Gowind is also not much of an improvement over the SIGMA 10514's, they share the same sensors and weapon complement and it makes no sense to purchase them when obtaining more SIGMA's or local design would be a better run for the money due to economy of scale.

Yeah talking about sigma there's some people told me this

TOT Sigma 10514 itu bodong. Kita cuma dikasih work order dan installation drawing tanpa tau design philosophy and calculation. Materialnya pun mereka sudah 90% difabrikasi dari belanda, termasuk pipa2nya. Intinya, kita ga bisa design ulang itu kapal.

 

[NEKONEKO]

I wouldn't trust the French article so much, it comes off more as an opinion piece than an actual wishlist from our government.

I honestly don't believe that we'd actually buy the Rafale. The Scorpene has merit but honestly the Rafale and Gowind seems like it isn't going to go anywhere. For the most part, the AU had been closely following the Indian MRCA program and saw where it went with their Rafale order.

The Rafale isn't much of an improvement over the F-16, so why would buying a jet that is more expensive over the F-16 and then having to set up the relevant supporting infrastructure as well as retraining of crews be something that's high on their list. The reality is that the AU LOVES the F-16, and it's going to be here for more years to come.

The Gowind is also not much of an improvement over the SIGMA 10514's, they share the same sensors and weapon complement and it makes no sense to purchase them when obtaining more SIGMA's or local design would be a better run for the money due to economy of scale. As much as we like to say that our government and military officials often times lack common sense they are not at Indian/Arab level yet when it comes to weapons purchasing, especially not those from the AU or the AL, as commonality is much more important in their operations than their AD counterparts.

Well yeah.



I am interested with their catobar system. Yup weird, i know.

bodong

Kek fintech bodong aja, ato kerajaan-kerajaanan bodong aja.
Pastinya udah ada kejelasan semuanya didokumen kontrak lah.

 

[Jatosint]

Yeah talking about sigma there's some people told me this

Well yeah.



I am interested with their catobar system. Yup weird, i know.


Kek fintech bodong aja, ato kerajaan-kerajaanan bodong aja.
Pastinya udah ada kejelasan semuanya didokumen kontrak lah.

Emangnya di kontrak yg dijanjikan Damen ke PAL itu apa aja ya?

Bukannya PAL kebagian bikin empat dari enam modul terus PAL juga yg ngerakit semua modulnya jadi satu?

https://www.damen.com/en/news/2016/...0514_pkr_launched_at_pt_pal_surabaya_shipyard

Saya gk ngerti industri/konstruksi kapal sih jadi mungkin ada yg bisa jelasin kalau bikin modul dan ngerakit itu apakah hal yg 'sepele' atau udah lumayan?

Tapi yang juga harus dipertanyakan itu memangnya kalau dikasih ToT yang lebih dari ToT diatas PAL udah sanggup? Apa Damen juga mau ngasih ilmu yg lebih tinggi ketika kapal yang dibeli cuma dua?

 

[Nike]

Emangnya di kontrak yg dijanjikan Damen ke PAL itu apa aja ya?

Bukannya PAL kebagian bikin empat dari enam modul terus PAL juga yg ngerakit semua modulnya jadi satu?

https://www.damen.com/en/news/2016/...0514_pkr_launched_at_pt_pal_surabaya_shipyard

Saya gk ngerti industri/konstruksi kapal sih jadi mungkin ada yg bisa jelasin kalau bikin modul dan ngerakit itu apakah hal yg 'sepele' atau udah lumayan?

Tapi yang juga harus dipertanyakan itu memangnya kalau dikasih ToT yang lebih dari ToT diatas PAL udah sanggup? Apa Damen juga mau ngasih ilmu yg lebih tinggi ketika kapal yang dibeli cuma dua?

6 cuy, Plus 4 corvettes we already bought from them. The corvettes actually should be build in Indonesia but not. Actually indonesia just fall into vicious cycle of bad management and purchasing when bought foreign arms. PT PAL actually wanted to gain more like the deals with the Germany over FPB 57 class, but the handler of purchase in kemenhan and some higher ups in PT PAL just followed what Damen clause dictate without fighting back

 

[san.geuk]

Sorry it suddenly become something in my mind "bedakan antara merangkai modul yang sudah ada dengan membuat modul dari nol" if the rumour about PKR is true then theres no reason to not reject that's Damen offer, except if they renegotiate PKR ToT contract

 

[NEKONEKO]

Saya gk ngerti industri/konstruksi kapal sih jadi mungkin ada yg bisa jelasin kalau bikin modul dan ngerakit itu apakah hal yg 'sepele' atau udah lumayan?

Kalau menurut saya ngga ada yang namanya sepele, karena itu adalah sebuah pencapaian baru.

Tapi yang juga harus dipertanyakan itu memangnya kalau dikasih ToT yang lebih dari ToT diatas PAL udah sanggup? Apa Damen juga mau ngasih ilmu yg lebih tinggi ketika kapal yang dibeli cuma dua?

Menurut saya PAL nggak sanggup, setahu saya PAL belum bisa membuat:
Engine, gears, clutches, shaft, kitiran.
Radar, eltronics and sensor, decoy, CMS.
Main gun, ciws, SAM missile, Ashm, torpedo. Karena memang bukan fokus mereka.
Kalau untuk piping dan sub-kompnen lain apakah ada perusahaan lokal yang mampu sebagai subkontraktor? Dan kualitas mumpuni? PAL mampunya ya baru membuat hullnya (damen juga sama bikin hull, sistem integrator, tapi lebih maju mereka soalnya bisa mendesain kaprang sendiri), kalau masalah 2 modul dibangun damen yah damen pasti ada alasannya lah, mana ada yang mau buntung pastinya untunglah.
Kalau mau dapat TOT mantap ya gabung aja pas tahap developmentnya, bakal paham seluk beluk pengembangan kaprang + tentang kapal itu sendiri. Kalau ada protes nilai kontrak yang didapat PAL kecil dibanding total nilai kontrak pengadaan PKR ya mau gimana lagi, persenjataan dan sensor lebih kecil tapi harga lebih mahal, kalau PAL mau dapet nilai kontrak yang besar ya pake aja senjata, sensor, elektronik dan mesin buatan PAL yang mana tidak ada.
Kalau nanti kita kasih lisensi produksi n219 ke negara x, yah jangan kasih semua paling engga bagian sayap dan ekor kita yang bikin trus eksport.

 

[Chestnut]

Yeah talking about sigma there's some people told me this

Of course they wouldn't give us everything, that's just bad for business.

 

[Cromwell]

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Tescoindomaritime OPV concept

 

[polanski]

Indonesian Air Force ordered RAT 31DL Air Defense Radar System: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2...ce-ordered-rat-31dl-air-defense-radar-system/

 

[Kansel]

Prabowo Subianto, DPR Commission I Hold Closed Meeting on Natuna
Translator:
Dewi Elvia Muthiariny
Editor:
Petir Garda Bhwana
20 January 2020 12:05 WIB

Natuna with a number of ministries.

https://en.tempo.co/read/1297250/prabowo-subianto-dpr-commission-i-hold-closed-meeting-on-natuna


Presented at the meeting were Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, Deputy Defense Minister Sakti Wahyu Trenggono, and Deputy Foreign Minister Mahendra Siregar.

When met before the meeting, Prabowo said they will discuss several issues, yet stopped short of elaborating further.

"I think there are a lot of subjects [to be discussed], a number of issues, perhaps including Natuna, the strength development, several problems with other ministers," said Prabowo at the Parliament Complex, Senayan, Jakarta, Monday, January 20.

The meeting on Natuna led by Commission I Deputy Head Utut Adianto was held in private. Other officials joining the discussion are Indonesian Military (TNI) Commander Marshal Hadi Tjahjanto and officials of the country's coastguard body (Bakamla) namely Rear Admiral T.S.N.B. Hutabarat and Rear Admiral S. Irawan.

INDONESIA
MENHAN DAN KOMISI I DPR SEPAKAT DUKUNG MODERNISASI ALUTSISTA
22 JANUARI 2020 DIANEKO_LC TINGGALKAN KOMENTAR

Menteri Pertahanan Prabowo Subianto bersiap mengikuti rapat kerja bersama Komisi I DPR di Kompleks Parlemen Senayan, Jakarta. (20/01/2020) (Sindonews)

Kedaulatan Indonesia sudah harga mati tidak bisa ditawar lagi. Menteri Pertahanan (Menhan) Prabowo Subianto menyebut Komisi I DPR dan pemerintah memiliki pemahaman yang sama terkait kedaulatan Indonesia tersebut.

Menurut Prabowo, untuk bisa menegakkan kedaulatan harus ditunjang dengan pertahanan yang kuat. Sedangkan pertahanan yang kuat bisa didapat satu di antaranya dengan modernisasi alutsista, sehingga memiliki kemampuan untuk menegakkan kedaulatan.

“Yah, meningkatkan pertahanan tentunya kita perlu modernisasi alutsista kita, memperbaiki yang kita punya supaya kita punya kemampuanlah menegakan kedaulatan kita,” tandas Prabowo seusai Rapat Kerja (Raker) dengan Komisi I DPR di Gedung DPR, Jakarta, kemarin.

Dilansir dari laman Sindonews (21/ 1/ 2020), Menhan pun mengungkapkan bahwa Komisi I pun mendukung kementeriannya dan Panglima TNI untuk memperkuat pertahanan lewat modernisasi alutsista. “Saya kira itu di Komisi I memahami juga mendukung pemerintah dan mendukung peningkatan pertahanan TNI dan sebagainya,” ungkapnya.

Meski demikian, menurut Prabowo, Indonesia tidak bisa serta-merta memiliki pertahanan yang kuat sebab butuh investasi untuk memperkuat pertahanan tersebut. Karena itu, Kemhan akan bekerja sama dengan Menteri Keuangan (Menkeu) agar hal itu bisa terwujud.

“Yah, saya kira ada suatu pemahaman bersama bahwa kedaulatan itu kan memang tidak bisa ditawar-tawar. Kedua bahwa kedaulatan itu memerlukan upaya khusus bahwa kedaulatan dan kemerdekaan itu harus dipertahankan dan pertahanan itu butuh investasi,” paparnya.

Mantan Komandan Jenderal Kopassus ini juga mengungkapkan bahwa pelanggaran wilayah tidak hanya dilakukan satu negara, tetapi beberapa negara lain juga melakukan pelanggaran wilayah Indonesia. “Saya ingin tegaskan lagi di sini bahwa pelanggaran wilayah tidak hanya terjadi dari satu negara, tapi beberapa negara lain juga melakukan pelanggaran ke wilayah kita,” ungkapnya.

Saat ditanya negara mana saja yang dimaksud, Prabowo enggan mengelaborasi lebih jauh karena menurutnya tidak perlu mengungkapkan negara mana saja yang melanggar batas wilayah Indonesia. “Iya ada beberapa negara lain yah. Yah, saya cukup sebut beberapa negara,” tandasnya.

Sebelumnya dalam raker itu Komisi I DPR sempat menghujani Menhan Prabowo Subianto, Panglima TNI Marsekal TNI Hadi Tjahjanto, Wakil Menteri Luar Negeri (Wamenlu) Mahendra Siregar, dan Badan Keamanan Laut (Bakamla) dengan pertanyaan seputar masalah Natuna.


https://lancerdefense.com/2020/01/22/menhan-dan-komisi-i-dpr-sepakat-dukung-modernisasi-alutsista/