Indonesia Defence Forum

[trishna_amṛta]

Caping?
Mengelabui FLIR? Seriously?
Kearifan lokal mengelabui flir hebatnya org Indonesia

Bukan ke arifan lokal tapi pemahaman thermodynamic

No it can't.

FLIR thermals can detect the heat vapors coming off your body.


FLIR cameras can detect heat vapors coming off your body. Unless you're wearing an enclosed environmental suit (and even then it's only a matter of time until the heat transfers out) it will detect you.

I used to work with FLIR, this is the most common misconception ever since Generation Kill came out.

I'm fully aware of it, and yet even multi spectral solution + data fusion aren't magic, and they all technology that has their operational limit. Same thing with the counter method its also has limit.

can soldier covered in cold mud detected by flir ?

Only if your name is Arnold Schwarzenegger

So how to undetected by FLIR? Are there any tricks to deceive flir?

Are flir realy advance so make guerilla warfare in jungle irrelevant?

I've already mention it above there are "operational limit" of everything including the counter, and gorilla jungle warfare is still very relevant

Natural jungle canopy

Well there is one of it.

So How effective jungle canopy to cover the heat from a human and undetected by flir?
(Sorry if i ask weird question)

Extremely effective as long you understand their limit.
BTW The only stupid or weird question is the one you didn't or never ask.

 

[HellFireIndo]

super tucano as close air support is not dwell too much in my mind, their limited armor, limited carriage or load weight, heck their main gun is only . 50 cal thats too small to dent most of the top armor of modern APC/IFV....

For COIN/Low intensity operation, they might be good, TNI and Brimob infantry squa would be helped a lot. But again there will be the usual "Chemical Weapon" bullshit being used again by these "people".

 

[Kansel]

super tucano as close air support is not dwell too much in my mind, their limited armor, limited carriage or load weight, heck their main gun is only . 50 cal thats too small to dent most of the top armor of modern APC/IFV....

Well, what else we can get? US didn't give permission to purchase thunderbolt eventho we lobbying them and no way for us to purchase frogfoot tho

Nice progress so far

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[Nike]

Well, what else we can get? US didn't give permission to purchase thunderbolt eventho we lobbying them and no way for us to purchase frogfoot tho

Nice progress so far

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Frogfoot is a nice addition, but i am expect to acquire Platipus. Heck, i cant get with the obsession of COIN, why not take more attack helicopter like Apache or Mi 35, they are more heavily armed, well armored and it is the nightmare for any lightly armed opponnent all over the world as you need something like MANPADS to bring them down

TNI AU can try to revive squadron 41 and squadron 42 , but with what?

The best contender to me is P8 poseidon

For squadron 21, replace the Tucanos with F 16 v who optimized for wild weasel mission, at least a historical bomber squadron deserved much better system

 

[Kansel]

Frogfoot is a nice addition, but i am expect to acquire Platipus. Heck, i cant get with the obsession of COIN, why not take more attack helicopter like Apache or Mi 35, they are more heavily armed, well armored and it is the nightmare for any lightly armed opponnent all over the world as you need something like MANPADS to bring them down

TNI AU can try to revive squadron 41 and squadron 42 , but with what?

The best contender to me is P8 poseidon

For squadron 21, replace the Tucanos with F 16 v who optimized for wild weasel mission, at least a historical bomber squadron deserved much better system

Well we can activate sq 41&42 with P8 or anything else cause there's no way for us to purchase TU-22M while caatsa still active, but due to lack of budgets for now, we don't.

Before, airforce need low Operational cost aircraft for border patrol and COIN which is why they chose tucanos tho. But there's no reason to replace them in the future with something better.

i heard they're going to purchase additional apaches (i hope so).

Also we're going to purchase heli anti teror? (wtf is that) are we going to create something like 160th SOAR?

 

[Nike]

Need at least a brigade sized helicopter units to made units equivalent of 160th SOAR night stalker, a batt stand by and a batt on rotation, we cant afford that yet. 160th SOAR is being supported by large support ecosystem and units to made them run effectively. US 160th operated around 200 helicopter to support such size unit.

And today whole of TNI doesnt have that much assault helicopter.... Sigh

 

[Kansel]

And today whole of TNI doesnt have that much assault helicopter.... Sigh

Only fennec not much quantity tho,hoping for TNI to purchase blackhawk for utility,assault and infiltration mission. Really the best on its class

 

[trishna_amṛta]

why not take more attack helicopter like Apache or Mi 35, they are more heavily armed, well armored and it is the nightmare for any lightly armed opponnent all over the world as you need something like MANPADS to bring them down

Apache is an attack helo, meaning it role is to wait somewhere and rush in to hit-and-run the OPFOR, its the same thing with Russian attack helo albeit the Russian attack helo were design upon different doctrine of which they were use as flying tank in similar fashion as the US using their A-10.
While for COIN role, the task require more of a loitering time and operate in uncontested airspace, thus there is no need for armoured plane such as A-10

 

[Chestnut]

Frogfoot is a nice addition, but i am expect to acquire Platipus. Heck, i cant get with the obsession of COIN, why not take more attack helicopter like Apache or Mi 35, they are more heavily armed, well armored and it is the nightmare for any lightly armed opponnent all over the world as you need something like MANPADS to bring them down

TNI AU can try to revive squadron 41 and squadron 42 , but with what?

The best contender to me is P8 poseidon

For squadron 21, replace the Tucanos with F 16 v who optimized for wild weasel mission, at least a historical bomber squadron deserved much better system

We don't need Frogfoots or strategic bombers.

If anything we need more Super Tucano's armed with PGM's. You don't need the biggest stick to fight an enemy that doesn't even have radios. You need cheap weapons that can be delivered with precision at a moment's notice, hence why we have a COIN doctrine and fly Super Tucanos.

 

[Nike]

We don't need Frogfoots or strategic bombers.

If anything we need more Super Tucano's armed with PGM's. You don't need the biggest stick to fight an enemy that doesn't even have radios. You need cheap weapons that can be delivered with precision at a moment's notice, hence why we have a COIN doctrine and fly Super Tucanos.

Yeah thats why TNI still became a COIN minded armed forces, just forget about MBT, destroyer, or heavy fighter all you need it is program bela negara, as they are more cheaper cannon fodder.

 

[Kansel]

While for COIN role, the task require more of a loitering time and operate in uncontested airspace, thus there is no need for armoured plane such as A-10

I missed the BRRRRRRT already

 

[Ruhnama]

A 10 warthog 20 million usd
Frogfoot 11 million usd

(Sc googel)

I just found this
https://militarymachine.com/most-expensive-military-jets/

Dont know it is accurate or not. Maybe just for reading or entertainment

 

[Kansel]

A 10 warthog 20 million usd
Frogfoot 11 million usd

(Sc googel)

I just found this
https://militarymachine.com/most-expensive-military-jets/

Dont know it is accurate or not. Maybe just for reading or entertainment

Its not good if you compare only by price per unit,compare it on many aspect like capabilities, Operational cost, Maintenance cost , airframe hours.

What i don't like from Russian made is their Maintenance cost is high rather than western made one. Think thats why most of our procurement for now and later going for western made.

 

[Chestnut]

Yeah thats why TNI still became a COIN minded armed forces, just forget about MBT, destroyer, or heavy fighter all you need it is program bela negara, as they are more cheaper cannon fodder.

We're a COIN minded force because our main security problems comes from within our borders. You don't need MBT's destroyers, or heavy fighters to fight people literally living in caves. None of those stuff helped the US in Afghanistan, why should we make the same mistake?

Bragging rights should not be a part of a serious defense strategy.

A 10 warthog 20 million usd
Frogfoot 11 million usd

(Sc googel)

I just found this
https://militarymachine.com/most-expensive-military-jets/

Dont know it is accurate or not. Maybe just for reading or entertainment

The A-10 will never be available. The US is prohibited in selling them abroad by an act of congress.

 

[Nike]

We're a COIN minded force because our main security problems comes from within our borders. You don't need MBT's destroyers, or heavy fighters to fight people literally living in caves. None of those stuff helped the US in Afghanistan, why should we make the same mistake?

Bragging rights should not be a part of a serious defense strategy.

Yeah right, we should stopped to established new KOSTRAD division and other frigates and corvettes we had should be scrapped, we should cancelled our NASSAM order, we should destroying PINDAD armored division manufacturing capability, we should looking solution like Philippine and their infantry minded attitude. Afterall our enemies right now and in the future is cave man wielding hatched and bows. What a great mind you had i am get a new revelation by each passing days.

The reason US can get a hold in Afghanistan in first place is because their shiny toys and network system along with all of their logistick units able to ensure there is no contender able to challenge their rules over the OCEAN and skies, what a great mind @Chestnut had to said those toys doesnt help US to suppress the enemies, well Tora Bora battle is fought with only rifles at hand maybe