Indonesia Defence Forum

[GraveDigger388]

Kadang agak gimana gitu. Mau ngomongin AAW destroyer. Lanjutan program PKR aja belum jelas, yg ada belum lengkap senjatanya.

Tul...

Jangan kekencengan wishlist nya.... Takut kayak member dari SiMerah ASEAN...

 

[striver44]

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[Logam42]

Wow, this forum is alive again! I thought it pretty much died during the run-up to the elections. Nice to see all the discussion here

Have a few things to add to.

However if we are to be worried about a possible Chinese military base then it's not in the Philippines we should be worried about... but in Timor Leste. China is already investing a lot in TL, most of TL new infrastructure projects are financed by China, like the Presidential palace, Army HQ, airport, toll roads, etc. However TL economy is not looking good... Their oil and gas fields are already past peak production and are now decreasing and is estimated to run out in the not too far future. Even today TL is already using their Oil & Gas savings fund to finance their annual budget. It's not hard to imagine TL becoming broke and indebted to China and be forced to lease their ports or airports, effectively turning it into a Chinese base... With TL located in our soft underbelly such a scenario is going to be a disaster for us (and to OZ as well), China will be able to freely monitor and spy on in the area or even station their military assets there.. It will be like having a dagger pointed to our belly. Hopefully this is something that our (and Oz) gov have anticipated and are taking steps to prevent such a scenario.

Tbh I view China's investments a waste on their part. Yeah, with all the debt they can put TL in the TL government can be influenced. Problem is... that TL has never really been a strong independent actor.

Their day-to-day existence is reliant on Indonesian trade, and their strategic position is dependent on Australian support. Neither country will ever allow a Chinese military presence to be stationed off TL, and both countries have much more... direct means of pressuring TL compared to 'financial loans'. I don't know about Australia, but as far as I'm concerned Indonesia is ready and willing to take off our 'nice gloves' pretty damn quickly if we have to.

As it stands, their Petroleum Fund will run out in 10 years, and thats before they decided to gamble everything into the Greater Sunrise project. Furthermore, Oecusse enclave is already acting like a seperate country heavily dependent on Indonesian companies (many of the BUMNs).

Really, if Indonesia gets a more international minded president and energised diplomatics corps, we might even manage to push for reintegration in 10 years time when they go bankrupt and find out no one is willing to help them without a huge cost.

In the coming 10 years, I see a chance for Indonesia to strengthen our influence with 2 nations previously heavily dependent on Australia. The first is TL, the second is PNG. Though PNG depends heavily on our ability to develop west papua and combat the successionist propaganda being spread by OPM sympathisers abroad.

 

[chandieka]

i wonder why they stick with two c802.

One of the reason is we dont have that many in the first place, C802 launcher can be stack together creating 2x2 launcher.

and the most important reason is it need space.. and all the space is used to accommodate RHIB boat + the crane

-___-" they want to use the ship for patroling also that is why...
peace time..

 

[Ruhnama]

After jokowi came to NDP 19 many people cimented to have similiar celebration for kemerdekaan RI like Singapore NDP

Did all people want see Leo2a2 pandur roll on street and Su 27 tandem with F16 fly in sky?

I hope RI 1 after watch NDP and realise about SG power and want to sepnt more in defensw


In future, can we get tot from mbda for exiocet?

Btw
https://tniad.mil.id/2019/08/kopda-hardius-kuasai-7-bahasa-asing-28-atase/

 

[NEKONEKO]

Really, if Indonesia gets a more international minded president and energised diplomatics corps, we might even manage to push for reintegration in 10 years time when they go bankrupt and find out no one is willing to help them without a huge cost.

In the coming 10 years, I see a chance for Indonesia to strengthen our influence with 2 nations previously heavily dependent on Australia. The first is TL, the second is PNG. Though PNG depends heavily on our ability to develop west papua and combat the successionist propaganda being spread by OPM sympathisers abroad.

Reintegration of TL? Do you think AU won't have a say about that?
It's very beneficial for them to have independent TL as additional buffer zone, not to mention natural resources in timor gap.
I don't know how far AU will go for TL but I think AU won't just sit quietly if we try something funny with PNG.

By 1986, Australia’s Defence Minister, Kim Beazley, told Indonesia’s military chief, Benny Murdani, that Australia would certainly go to war for PNG, ‘but we wouldn’t tell them that!’
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/extraordinary-triangle-australia-png-indonesia/

I used to say to Benny Murdani and to other officials, because they were not being big on Australia, it has to be said, and I used to say now we do have issues with you on human rights particularly in East Timor. We do have argument over the character and the relationship that is manifested in the Defence Cooperation Program. But the thing I appreciate about you, Benny, is that you serve Australian interest and he was taken aback by that and he said how do I serve Australian interests?
I said it is in our interest that this archipelago, which contains four choke points within it, which are the avenues by which Australia would be attacked, should be in stable and friendly hands. We don't think enough any longer about the structure of the strategy of Australia – the geographic structure of Australian defence.
It used to be focus in Billy Hughes days on Papua New Guinea, but in fact it's broader than that – it's the totality of the archipelago and that is the ability to deny those points of access is a critical part of the Australian [force] structure and it's against all-comers, whether it be Japan in the day, China or whatever. So the Indonesian archipelago is the Australian front door and, were Indonesia to fall apart into sort of warring island nations or whatever, Australian security would be materially affected – we understand that.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/ex...-1995/transcript-1994-95-cabinet-q-and-a.aspx

AU need PNG and ID as buffer zone from northern forces, at the same time AU need TL and PNG as buffer zone against ID.
Our unique neighbor in the south, I expect our relationship with them become stronger again then free fall rock bottom before getting stronger again and repeat.

 

[Cromwell]

PT.Infra Red RCS
Credit to Komite Kebijakan Industri Pertahanan

PT Sari Bahari
Credit to Komite Kebijakan Industri Pertahanan

After jokowi came to NDP 19 many people cimented to have similiar celebration for kemerdekaan RI like Singapore NDP

Did all people want see Leo2a2 pandur roll on street and Su 27 tandem with F16 fly in sky?

I hope RI 1 after watch NDP and realise about SG power and want to sepnt more in defensw


In future, can we get tot from mbda for exiocet?

Btw
https://tniad.mil.id/2019/08/kopda-hardius-kuasai-7-bahasa-asing-28-atase/

Awesome right ? Yesterday i watched NDP 2019 live in Channel Asia well the message they try to deliver to their neighbours seems understood.

 

[barjo]

View attachment 573442 View attachment 573443 View attachment 573444 View attachment 573445 View attachment 573446
PT.Infra Red RCS
Credit to Komite Kebijakan Industri Pertahanan

View attachment 573447 View attachment 573448 View attachment 573449 View attachment 573450 View attachment 573451 View attachment 573452
PT Sari Bahari
Credit to Komite Kebijakan Industri Pertahanan


Awesome right ? Yesterday i watched NDP 2019 live in Channel Asia well the message they try to deliver to their neighbours seems understood.

Their ESM product is quite good bro
I know their development phase for a while

Kadang agak gimana gitu. Mau ngomongin AAW destroyer. Lanjutan program PKR aja belum jelas, yg ada belum lengkap senjatanya.

Itu serasa minum kopi rasa oli

 

[Nike]

Reintegration of TL? Do you think AU won't have a say about that?
It's very beneficial for them to have independent TL as additional buffer zone, not to mention natural resources in timor gap.
I don't know how far AU will go for TL but I think AU won't just sit quietly if we try something funny with PNG.

By 1986, Australia’s Defence Minister, Kim Beazley, told Indonesia’s military chief, Benny Murdani, that Australia would certainly go to war for PNG, ‘but we wouldn’t tell them that!’
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/extraordinary-triangle-australia-png-indonesia/

I used to say to Benny Murdani and to other officials, because they were not being big on Australia, it has to be said, and I used to say now we do have issues with you on human rights particularly in East Timor. We do have argument over the character and the relationship that is manifested in the Defence Cooperation Program. But the thing I appreciate about you, Benny, is that you serve Australian interest and he was taken aback by that and he said how do I serve Australian interests?
I said it is in our interest that this archipelago, which contains four choke points within it, which are the avenues by which Australia would be attacked, should be in stable and friendly hands. We don't think enough any longer about the structure of the strategy of Australia – the geographic structure of Australian defence.
It used to be focus in Billy Hughes days on Papua New Guinea, but in fact it's broader than that – it's the totality of the archipelago and that is the ability to deny those points of access is a critical part of the Australian [force] structure and it's against all-comers, whether it be Japan in the day, China or whatever. So the Indonesian archipelago is the Australian front door and, were Indonesia to fall apart into sort of warring island nations or whatever, Australian security would be materially affected – we understand that.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/ex...-1995/transcript-1994-95-cabinet-q-and-a.aspx

AU need PNG and ID as buffer zone from northern forces, at the same time AU need TL and PNG as buffer zone against ID.
Our unique neighbor in the south, I expect our relationship with them become stronger again then free fall rock bottom before getting stronger again and repeat.

They cant repeat that, look at our economy size, now we are equaling them for good. Look at our military rearm program , they sooner than later will be left in size (though almost impossible in complexity), it just they suddenly got a large neighbor (after 1998) with strength equal or more large than them, a democratic ones and more unified than ever.

 

[Cromwell]

Their ESM product is quite good bro
I know their development phase for a while


Itu serasa minum kopi rasa oli

I know i just i wonder why private sectors got less exposure to the medias while their contributions are equally great.

 

[HellFireIndo]

They cant repeat that, look at our economy size, now we are equaling them for good. Look at our military rearm program , they sooner than later will be left in size (though almost impossible in complexity), it just they suddenly got a large neighbor (after 1998) with strength equal or more large than them, a democratic ones and more unified than ever.

There's already a very obvious and simple solution : become too big to fail, just like how countries hold back from messing with China and India, simply because they are just too large to be coerced to do their bidding.

I don't think TL is of any significant in strategic value, not in economic value nor as a geographical buffer state, cause we can just go around thru Aru sea anyway. TL is no more than a proxy state now, almost completely dependent on foreign influences, especially from Indonesia and Australia. We could completely eclipsed the Aussies' influence in the East by having 2-3 times larger GDP than them and also having a larger influence and share of their export market, their population will have no choice but to pressure the Aussie government not to anger Indonesia, if they still want their cattle and vegetables having a stable demand. Aussies intervened when they thought they wont lose anything by angering Indonesia, but if angering Indonesia could cost them their economy and diplomatic favors, they wont bother to act like a pahlawan kesiangan anymore.

Anyway, why did a lot of people hyped so much about SG? i don't think they are really that extraordinary or did i miss something? Idk it looked like if the Ottomans got hyped too much about the Venetian, kinda odd for me at least.

 

[Nike]

There's already a very obvious and simple solution : become too big to fail, just like how countries hold back from messing with China and India, simply because they are just too large to be coerced to do their bidding.

I don't think TL is of any significant in strategic value, not in economic value nor as a geographical buffer state, cause we can just go around thru Aru sea anyway. TL is no more than a proxy state now, almost completely dependent on foreign influences, especially from Indonesia and Australia. We could completely eclipsed the Aussies' influence in the East by having 2-3 times larger GDP than them and also having a larger influence and share of their export market, their population will have no choice but to pressure the Aussie government not to anger Indonesia, if they still want their cattle and vegetables having a stable demand. Aussies intervened when they thought they wont lose anything by angering Indonesia, but if angering Indonesia could cost them their economy and diplomatic favors, they wont bother to act like a pahlawan kesiangan anymore.

Anyway, why did a lot of people hyped so much about SG? i don't think they are really that extraordinary or did i miss something? Idk it looked like if the Ottomans got hyped too much about the Venetian, kinda odd for me at least.

Except Venetian got rather large colonies area, quite large and amassing a fortunes who made modern Bill Gates is in shame as comparison. Their military quite strong too, even capable to ransacking Ottoman fleets in Lepanto and Constantinople at their heyday, Singapore would be never capable to build rather large fleets to challenge the likes of China or US, but Venetian is indeed doing that against super power at the times like Ottoman or Holy Roman Empire.

 

[Cromwell]

Except Venetian got rather large colonies area, quite large and amassing a fortunes who made modern Bill Gates is in shame as comparison. Their military quite strong too, even capable to ransacking Ottoman fleets in Lepanto and Constantinople at their heyday, Singapore would be never capable to build rather large fleets to challenge the likes of China or US, but Venetian is indeed doing that against super power at the times like Ottoman or Holy Roman Empire.

Watching tv series " Da Vinci's Demon ". Italian city states were indeed powerfull at their own terms, i remember House of Medici, ruler of Florence stood up against Holy See, Holy Roman Empire ( medieval era German ), and Ottoman Sultanate. Small yet powerfull enough to defend themself against superpower of the era.

 

[Nike]

Watching tv series " Da Vinci's Demon ". Italian city states were indeed powerfull at their own terms, i remember House of Medici, ruler of Florence stood up against Holy See, Holy Roman Empire ( medieval era German ), and Ottoman Sultanate. Small yet powerfull enough to defend themself against superpower of the era.

Their intelligent network is real piece and playing huge roles to preserve their power against other power. Just like when Italien states using Popes by bribing him and made Holy Roman Empire Emperor as target for Holy Crusade after excommunicate him, and downplaying huge Mongol threat among European kingdom nobles courts to further benefit them.

 

[striver44]

Except Venetian got rather large colonies area, quite large and amassing a fortunes who made modern Bill Gates is in shame as comparison. Their military quite strong too, even capable to ransacking Ottoman fleets in Lepanto and Constantinople at their heyday, Singapore would be never capable to build rather large fleets to challenge the likes of China or US, but Venetian is indeed doing that against super power at the times like Ottoman or Holy Roman Empire.

you should check about seapower states, some countries rely solely on the sea for their existance that they build a navy so big and powerful for their survival and eventually the navy help them grow into empires.