Indonesia Defence Forum

[Cromwell]

KF-X news

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/9...-rakorsus-pengembangan-pesawat-tempur-kfx-ifx

I'm curious about what the korean official think when we ask so many demands but we also want the bigger part of this project (LoL) is this really okay with them? why they so soft to us even their situation is at disadvantageous in this project compare to us? what do you think?

Because Indonesia is prime market for South Korean arms outside IFX, name them. The only foreign user of their Changbogo Class, 1st foreign customer of their designed LPD, 1st & only foreign user of Chiron SHORADs, 1st foreign customer of KT-1 Wongbee & T-50i, Tarantula FSV, etc.
Honestly i hate the situation which we keep negotiating to reduce our contribution in RnD cost, 20% is gracious number given we are involved as junior partner & allowed to co-produce airframe components and using local made avionic. We shouldn't demanding more from them.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Self sufficient is a way, should emulate what the Turks and South Korean do and doing harder twice or even thrice of their efforts and should increase the defense budget and allocated more R and D budget from education budget into an actual thing in military sector by financing R and D from LIPI, BPPT and other universities in colab project with the armed forces (like combat medic Healthcare, technical (like material compositions for armor, RCWS and robotic arms, military ships and other) , pengindraan jarak jauh and rocket tech. )



Unlike the Spaniard (cassa) , Krauts (bolcow and other) and Frenchie who regarding us as their equal partner without even mentioned human rights issue in the past and even supporting our Air Forces in dire times (same with Israel who provided spare parts for our F16 during embargo time), Briton foreign policy regarding us is not stable and need caution. We should made more active defense procurement from other second or third tier neutral and reliable countries like Cheko, Serbia, Spain, Norway, Danish, South Korea, South Africa, Israel and other

Just like what i've been thinking all this time sis, South Korea and Turkey have been in our situation but they already gone past that time and now successfully built their defense industry on-par with the established player, that's why i am for a cooperation with both of them, especially South Korea, provided enough political will and budget, they got anything that we could wish for and no political strings attached.

KF-X news

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/9...-rakorsus-pengembangan-pesawat-tempur-kfx-ifx

I'm curious about what the korean official think when we ask so many demands but we also want the bigger part of this project (LoL) is this really okay with them? why they so soft to us even their situation is at disadvantageous in this project compare to us? what do you think?

We're their largest defense products customer, and i mean, multi-billion dollars worth kind of cooperation between the two countries. South Korea is a significant partner for Indonesia in both trade and defense cooperation and vice-versa, the Submarine deal alone is a major boost in confidence for South Korea's shipbuilding companies (DSME), totalling 2.3 billion USD of export for their first customer.

For KFX/IFX specifically, there's literally no other country in the region to cooperate with except for us Lol, as in ASEAN we're the only one with an aerospace industry capable of producing aircrafts, and in Asia Pacific, forget about Japan, China, and India, even the US can only be a source for tech transfer, some other reason is that we did, again boost their confidence and ease their financial burden for the program, as having a foreign customer and partner is a pretty good incentive to continue the program.

We should really pay that 2 billion USD share.

 

[Nike]

KF-X update news

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/9...-rakorsus-pengembangan-pesawat-tempur-kfx-ifx

https://tirto.id/pemerintah-akan-kurangi-share-proyek-pesawat-tempur-kfx-dan-if-x-eewW

I'm curious about what the korean think when we ask so many demands but we also want the bigger part of this project (LoL) is this really okay with them? why they so soft to us even their situation is at disadvantageous in this project compare to us? what do you think?

Its mean one, They need us more than us need them, in other words we got a very large bargaining chips. We should milk them dry if we can, no need to be soft against them as it is our National interest (or some people interest) at stakes. They should have seeing it, Jet fighter market in Indonesia is actually very large as the needs is actually large enough considering our economy might, population number, and area must be defended , they look at possible future sales and coorperation

 

[Indos]

From what I read from different media I think Indonesia position is getting softer on the bargaining, it looks like the demand to decrease IFX acquisition from 48 into 16 is no more our demand. Other demand like the right to market the plane is also not heard from latest Wiranto statement. Now what (look like) is left is about decreasing R&D share from 20 percent into 15 percent.

The idea to renegotiate the program actually comes up after Rupiah get pressured but now Rupiah has already come back to normal. Defense budget for 2020 have also been increase into 9 billion USD, an increase from 7,8 billion USD for 2019 budget.

Personally I dont like the idea to renegotiate the program. It shows lack of commitment to keep previous agreement that has already been agreed. It will hurt the level of trust between two nation. Future cooperation with South Korea in defense industry may get jeopardized.

We should really pay that 2 billion USD share.

Agreed

 

[Nike]

From what I read from different media I think Indonesia position is getting softer on the bargaining, it looks like the demand to decrease IFX acquisition from 48 into 16 is no more our demand. Other demand like the right to market the plane is also not heard from latest Wiranto statement. Now what (look like) is left is about decreasing R&D share from 20 percent into 15 percent.

The idea to renegotiate the program actually comes up after Rupiah get pressured but now Rupiah has already come back to normal. Defense budget for 2020 have also been increase into 9 billion USD, an increase from 7,8 billion USD for 2019 budget.

Personally I dont like the idea to renegotiate the program. It shows lack of commitment to keep previous agreement that has already been agreed. It will hurt the level of trust between two nation. Future cooperation with South Korea in defense industry may get jeopardized.



Agreed

Trump promised to devaluing US dollar value against their competitor, especially country who got large surplus trade against them

 

[Gundala]

Its mean one, They need us more than us need them, in other words we got a very large bargaining chips. We should milk them dry if we can, no need to be soft against them as it is our National interest (or some people interest) at stakes. They should have seeing it, Jet fighter market in Indonesia is actually very large as the needs is actually large enough considering our economy might, population number, and area must be defended , they look at possible future sales and coorperation

True, we have more leverage/bargaining chips. In this era where we purchased LST/LPD like there is no tomorow reflecting the support of local Industry and self sustained. Question is why it seems like we are trying to back down from the project which can support our own fighter X? Why negotiate more benefit for less money? crazy right? Well maybe not. From my point of view our govt dont see the cost and benefit match up in our flavor. Of all those bright people in bappenas, bkpm, kemenhan, etc, they try to negotiate for less but ask for more? simply there are reason behind it that they cant fully open it to public.

I remember statement from Pres.Jokowi saying "...kita ga mau hubungan dengan korea jadi tidak baik...", something like that. From political perspective he prolly said the project is not right for the money, I want to dump it but there are others business we doing with them so we cant simply drop it. Maybe we can negotiate for more benefit, if not from this project then from other project. This probably the case when Mr.Luhut announce Hyundai automotive suddenly want to invest huge amount of money for their car factory in Indonesia. Take and give, sounds familiar?

Another reason maybe some source code for the design that is locked by LM and only given to Korea. I heard its not that LM didnt want it to share, but their govt not allowed them to share with us. So prolly we stuck in "ready" design (with all the calculation behind not given). Again its just my amature speculation and analyze, but there is somthing that doesnt add up.

My thoughts is to continue with the project but negotiate for the right to modify the fighter. That should be enough for our engineer to toy with and hopefully can learn something from on hand experience.

 

[Nike]

True, we have more leverage/bargaining chips. In this era where we purchased LST/LPD like there is no tomorow reflecting the support of local Industry and self sustained. Question is why it seems like we are trying to back down from the project which can support our own fighter X? Why negotiate more benefit for less money? crazy right? Well maybe not. From my point of view our govt dont see the cost and benefit match up in our flavor. Of all those bright people in bappenas, bkpm, kemenhan, etc, they try to negotiate for less but ask for more? simply there are reason behind it that they cant fully open it to public.

I remember statement from Pres.Jokowi saying "...kita ga mau hubungan dengan korea jadi tidak baik...", something like that. From political perspective he prolly said the project is not right for the money, I want to dump it but there are others business we doing with them so we cant simply drop it. Maybe we can negotiate for more benefit, if not from this project then from other project. This probably the case when Mr.Luhut announce Hyundai automotive suddenly want to invest huge amount of money for their car factory in Indonesia. Take and give, sounds familiar?

Another reason maybe some source code for the design that is locked by LM and only given to Korea. I heard its not that LM didnt want it to share, but their govt not allowed them to share with us. So prolly we stuck in "ready" design (with all the calculation behind not given). Again its just my amature speculation and analyze, but there is somthing that doesnt add up.

My thoughts is to continue with the project but negotiate for the right to modify the fighter. That should be enough for our engineer to toy with and hopefully can learn something from on hand experience.

Well last time i heard, there is some irk because some Korean conglomerate prefer to chose other country as their center base production instead of in Indonesia in which our government clearly had given huge favor for them and made their products easily spreading accross Indonesia and this create huge burden on our account ballance because this mean we are importing more gadget produced by those competitor country. But then their government trying to facillitates more of their company to invest in Indonesia and trying to appease our government over this issue

 

[Cromwell]

Trump promised to devaluing US dollar value against their competitor, especially country who got large surplus trade against them

Trump policies of trade war especially against China eventually gives negative effects to Indonesia as it disrupts global trade chain with tarriff applied. Not only against China but also against NAFTA members in particular Mexico & Canada and also recently launched trade war against EU. What bothers me that we actually have trade surplus with US and Trump recently planning to lift up GSP for developing nations unless rebalancing the trade. We can play along and win him over through this

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/05/article/to-pacify-trump-indonesia-seeks-american-arms/

Hoping that somehow US & China can agree on set term, or watching US elections 2020. AFAIK Deep South states normally Republican voters & Trump supporters slowly switch their voice. Farmers especially Soya bean, Corn & Onion are facing bankruptcy due to China retalliatory tarrifs on US agriculture products. These farmers made majority of deep south & midland voters which their voice reflects Electoral College they represent. Republican voice is crumbling with low popularity as we see ourself Conggres election has been won by Democrat House Majority and Conggreswoman Nancy Pelosi has been named as Democratic House Speaker, with New England & West Coast population hold firms in Democratic Party while Republican traditional voters are swinging, 2020 election would be interesting. Donald J.Trump will obviously continue as Republican standard bearer, the question is who Democrats will pick as standard bearer with strategies to winning the south while keeping the votes in the north.

 

[pr1v4t33r]

Indonesia allocates USD143 million for two naval hydrographic vessels

• Indonesia has approved an additional sum of IDR2.04 trillion for the country's 2019 defence budget
• The funds will be allocated towards the procurement of hydrographic survey vessels that can be quickly converted into vessels of opportunity for submarine rescue

The Indonesian Ministry of Finance has approved an additional IDR2.04 trillion (USD143 million) for the country's 2019 defence budget, with a view on accelerating the procurement process for two new hydrographic survey ships that can be swiftly converted into vessels of opportunity (VOO) for submarine rescue operations.

The funds will be added to the country's previously approved 2019 defence budget of IDR108 trillion, according to an official document seen by Jane's on 17 July.

https://www.janes.com/article/89932...43-million-for-two-naval-hydrographic-vessels

 

[gondes]

Koopssus TNI Sah Terbentuk, Beroperasi di Dalam dan Luar RI
CNN Indonesia | Kamis, 18/07/2019 18:06 WIB

Ilustrasi Koopssus TNI. (CNN Indonesia/Adhi Wicaksono)

Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- Presiden Joko Widodo resmi menandatangi Peraturan Presiden Nomor 42 Tahun 2019 tentang Perubahan Kedua Atas Perpres Nomor 10 Tahun 2010 tentang Sususan Organisasi Tentara Nasional Indonesia. Perpres tersebut ditandatangani dan mulai berlaku sejak 3 Juli 2019.

Perpres itu diketahui merupakan dasar perubahan susunan Markas Besar TNI dan pembentukan Komando Operasi Khusus (Koopsus) TNI yang berasal dari matra darat, laut, dan udara.

Dalam Perpres itu, Koopssus TNI bertugas untuk menyelenggarakan operasi khusus dan memberikan dukungan dalam operasi khusus yang membutuhkan kecepatan dan keberhasilan tinggi.

"Guna menyelamatkan kepentingan nasional di dalam maupun di luar wilayah Negara Kesatuan Republik Indonesia dalam rangka mendukung tugas pokok TNI," dikutip dari situs seskab.go.id, Kamis (18/7).

Lebih lanjut, Perpres menyebut Koopsus TNI dipimpin oleh Komandan Koopssus TNI dengan pangkat bintang dua. Sementara Wakil Dankoopssus dijabat oleh perwira tinggi berpangkat bintang satu.

Adapun kedudukan Dankoopssus TNI berada di bawah dan bertanggungjawab kepada Panglima TNI. Dankoopssus juga dibantu oleh Wadankoopssus. Sementara dalam pelaksanaan tugas sehari-hari Dankoopssus berkoordinasi dengan Kasum TNI.

Dalam Perpres 42/2019 itu juga disebutkan soal Komando Operasi TNI. Susunannya terdiri dari Komando Pertahanan Udara Nasional; Komando Gabungan Wilayah Pertahanan; Komando Cadangan Strategis TNI Angkatan Darat; Komando Pasukan Khusus; Komando Daerah Militer; Komando Armada; Komando Lintas Laut Militer; dan Komando Operasional TNI Angkatan Udara.

Sebelumnya, TNI pernah memiliki Koopssusgab TNI yang dibentuk oleh Moeldoko selaku Panglima TNI pada 2015. Tim ini merupakan gabungan pasukan elite dari tiga matra TNI, yakni Sat-81 milik TNI AD, Denjaka milik TNI AL, dan Satbravo-90 dari TNI AU. Namun, tim ini dibekukan.

Usai pengesahan UU Nomor 5 Tahun 2018 tentang Tindak Pidana Terorisme, pasukan elite ini direncanakan aktif kembali lewat penyusunan payung hukum. Yakni, Peraturan Pemerintah (PP) sebagai turunan Undang-Undang Nomor 34 Tahun 2004 tentang TNI, dan lewat Perpres terkait pelibatan TNI dalam UU Terorisme.

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...sah-terbentuk-beroperasi-di-dalam-dan-luar-ri

Possible Indonesian James Bond?

 

[Nike]

Koopssus TNI Sah Terbentuk, Beroperasi di Dalam dan Luar RI
CNN Indonesia | Kamis, 18/07/2019 18:06 WIB

Ilustrasi Koopssus TNI. (CNN Indonesia/Adhi Wicaksono)

Jakarta, CNN Indonesia -- Presiden Joko Widodo resmi menandatangi Peraturan Presiden Nomor 42 Tahun 2019 tentang Perubahan Kedua Atas Perpres Nomor 10 Tahun 2010 tentang Sususan Organisasi Tentara Nasional Indonesia. Perpres tersebut ditandatangani dan mulai berlaku sejak 3 Juli 2019.

Perpres itu diketahui merupakan dasar perubahan susunan Markas Besar TNI dan pembentukan Komando Operasi Khusus (Koopsus) TNI yang berasal dari matra darat, laut, dan udara.

Dalam Perpres itu, Koopssus TNI bertugas untuk menyelenggarakan operasi khusus dan memberikan dukungan dalam operasi khusus yang membutuhkan kecepatan dan keberhasilan tinggi.

"Guna menyelamatkan kepentingan nasional di dalam maupun di luar wilayah Negara Kesatuan Republik Indonesia dalam rangka mendukung tugas pokok TNI," dikutip dari situs seskab.go.id, Kamis (18/7).

Lebih lanjut, Perpres menyebut Koopsus TNI dipimpin oleh Komandan Koopssus TNI dengan pangkat bintang dua. Sementara Wakil Dankoopssus dijabat oleh perwira tinggi berpangkat bintang satu.

Adapun kedudukan Dankoopssus TNI berada di bawah dan bertanggungjawab kepada Panglima TNI. Dankoopssus juga dibantu oleh Wadankoopssus. Sementara dalam pelaksanaan tugas sehari-hari Dankoopssus berkoordinasi dengan Kasum TNI.

Dalam Perpres 42/2019 itu juga disebutkan soal Komando Operasi TNI. Susunannya terdiri dari Komando Pertahanan Udara Nasional; Komando Gabungan Wilayah Pertahanan; Komando Cadangan Strategis TNI Angkatan Darat; Komando Pasukan Khusus; Komando Daerah Militer; Komando Armada; Komando Lintas Laut Militer; dan Komando Operasional TNI Angkatan Udara.

Sebelumnya, TNI pernah memiliki Koopssusgab TNI yang dibentuk oleh Moeldoko selaku Panglima TNI pada 2015. Tim ini merupakan gabungan pasukan elite dari tiga matra TNI, yakni Sat-81 milik TNI AD, Denjaka milik TNI AL, dan Satbravo-90 dari TNI AU. Namun, tim ini dibekukan.

Usai pengesahan UU Nomor 5 Tahun 2018 tentang Tindak Pidana Terorisme, pasukan elite ini direncanakan aktif kembali lewat penyusunan payung hukum. Yakni, Peraturan Pemerintah (PP) sebagai turunan Undang-Undang Nomor 34 Tahun 2004 tentang TNI, dan lewat Perpres terkait pelibatan TNI dalam UU Terorisme.

https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasion...sah-terbentuk-beroperasi-di-dalam-dan-luar-ri

Possible Indonesian James Bond?

No, This thing is more like US SOCOM, centralized operator command

Wiranto to discusss Indonesia-Timor Leste borders with Xanana
18th Jul 2019 21:53

Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Wiranto (left) shakes hands with Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi after discussing the Indonesia-Timor Leste borders in Jakarta on Thursday (July 18, 2019) (ANTARA/FAUZI LAMBOKA)

Jakarta (ANTARA) - Indonesian Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, Wiranto, will meet Timor Leste Minister of Strategic Planning and Investment, Xanana Gusmao, next week to conclude a discussion over the Indonesia-Timor Leste borders.

Xanana will begin his Indonesian visit on Monday, July 22, 2019, Wiranto said at his office in Jakarta on Thursday.

Indonesian Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will attend the meeting to end the discussion related to the Senior Official Consultation (SOC).

The SOC is an agreement reached during a meeting between Wiranto, Marsudi and Xanana in Jakarta in 2017 and is aimed at discussing the technical settlement of state border disputes between the two countries.

"My meeting with Xanana was more of a political decision to endorse the outcome of the 5th SOC in Bali," he said.

Wiranto said both countries have made progress over settling the border issue

"I have met him (Xanana) several times. But I hope the meeting which will be held on July 22 will be part of efforts to finalize the last point, which is quite long," he said.

The Indonesian areas bordering Timor Leste include Noel Besi-Citrana and Bidjael Sunan-Oben.

The Noel Besi-Citrana border area in Kupang district, East Nusa Tenggara, shares a common border with Timor Leste's Oecusse-Ambeno,

Bidjael Sunan-Oben is located in Manusasi, and Timor Tengah Utara district.



Editor: Rahmad Nasution

COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019

https://m.antaranews.com/en/news/12...sss-indonesia-timor-leste-borders-with-xanana

IMHO, those two is mature enough to brush aside their past and entered in new diplomatic table manner

Just my personnal though, Jakarta should giving much support to East Timor by more investment and loans so to alleviate their economy and made them more reliance on us. Thus this way can decreasing their depence on China and Australia, and to ensure there is no more foreign military bases near our border

 

[Cromwell]

Infographic on Lada Class LST
Credit to Fb page World Defense Zone

No, This thing is more like US SOCOM, centralized operator command

Wiranto to discusss Indonesia-Timor Leste borders with Xanana
18th Jul 2019 21:53

Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Wiranto (left) shakes hands with Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi after discussing the Indonesia-Timor Leste borders in Jakarta on Thursday (July 18, 2019) (ANTARA/FAUZI LAMBOKA)

Jakarta (ANTARA) - Indonesian Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, Wiranto, will meet Timor Leste Minister of Strategic Planning and Investment, Xanana Gusmao, next week to conclude a discussion over the Indonesia-Timor Leste borders.

Xanana will begin his Indonesian visit on Monday, July 22, 2019, Wiranto said at his office in Jakarta on Thursday.

Indonesian Foreign Minister, Retno Marsudi, will attend the meeting to end the discussion related to the Senior Official Consultation (SOC).

The SOC is an agreement reached during a meeting between Wiranto, Marsudi and Xanana in Jakarta in 2017 and is aimed at discussing the technical settlement of state border disputes between the two countries.

"My meeting with Xanana was more of a political decision to endorse the outcome of the 5th SOC in Bali," he said.

Wiranto said both countries have made progress over settling the border issue

"I have met him (Xanana) several times. But I hope the meeting which will be held on July 22 will be part of efforts to finalize the last point, which is quite long," he said.

The Indonesian areas bordering Timor Leste include Noel Besi-Citrana and Bidjael Sunan-Oben.

The Noel Besi-Citrana border area in Kupang district, East Nusa Tenggara, shares a common border with Timor Leste's Oecusse-Ambeno,

Bidjael Sunan-Oben is located in Manusasi, and Timor Tengah Utara district.



Editor: Rahmad Nasution

COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2019

https://m.antaranews.com/en/news/12...sss-indonesia-timor-leste-borders-with-xanana

IMHO, those two is mature enough to brush aside their past and entered in new diplomatic table manner

Just my personnal though, Jakarta should giving much support to East Timor by more investment and loans so to alleviate their economy and made them more reliance on us. Thus this way can decreasing their depence on China and Australia, and to ensure there is no more foreign military bases near our border

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sm...et-up-east-timor-spy-base-20110509-1efwo.html

There was though failed Chinese bid in 2007 to establish Spy base by installing surveillance radar base in Wetar Strait. Manned by Chinese technicians & solely built for Chinese military purpose. The plan failed as PM Jose Ramos Horta consult US & Australia and advised to decline the offer.

 

[Raduga]

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^^^ the mockup that always given as "cinderamata" were LPD , didn't they have any other combatant mockup

Infographic on Lada Class LST
Credit to Fb page World Defense ZoneView attachment 569868

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sm...et-up-east-timor-spy-base-20110509-1efwo.html

26 unit , that's almost the same number of chinese yuting 2 class LST fleet

 

[Cromwell]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

^^^ the mockup that always given as "cinderamata" were LPD , didn't they have any other combatant mockup



26 unit , that's almost the same number of chinese yuting 2 class LST fleet

I can satisfy on development of amphibious & auxilliary fleet. I mean we can build ourself LPD, LST, LCU, Hospital ship, Oil refuelling ship however the feeling is contrary on combatant escort fleet. The progress is too slow to achieve 2024 goal, some of the goals will go late & be fullfilled post 2024.

 

[Gundala]

Well last time i heard, there is some irk because some Korean conglomerate prefer to chose other country as their center base production instead of in Indonesia in which our government clearly had given huge favor for them and made their products easily spreading accross Indonesia and this create huge burden on our account ballance because this mean we are importing more gadget produced by those competitor country. But then their government trying to facillitates more of their company to invest in Indonesia and trying to appease our government over this issue

Ahhh now this might be the case. Now it all starting to make sense to me. Thank you!!