Indonesia Defence Forum

[Cromwell]

Infographics of Makassar Class LPD derivates

 

[NEKONEKO]

Interesting writing on how Australia perceives Indonesian Air Force, rather actually a fact that mostly we deny

Air Force comparable to the force of Sub Saharan African.

Sub Saharan African level indeed.

Pretty much Australia have superior navy and air force to guard their northern area which is like a "maginot line" for them.
Shortfin-barracuda(future), hobart class, hunter class(future), P8, wedgetail, F35, and far higher defense budget pretty much they are ahead of us. It's a delicate equilibrium, AU have superior navy and air force but we have larger army and it is in balance, it is highly unlikely that ID and AU wil drawn into a conflict but if we put it on paper AU would triumph both in air and sea and could land their forces to some of our small island, for a larger islands pretty much they will have a hard time to survive, they could even be wiped out if they land in Java, and for ID it will hard to penetrate the "maginot line" but if succeed AU will saw large number of troops coming south. AU will having hard time securing many island, not to mention our capital now is in the most populous island in the world. It will be difficult for ID to move south crossing the AU continent and will keep being harrassed by RAF. No decisive victory for both side.
In the scenario when AU and ID can co exist peacefully which is more likely, ID economy will keep kicking and ID defense budget will increase, AU superiority in "maginot line" will be diminished, not in the near future tho.
It's better if AU and ID become friend rather than adversaries, having strong and friendly neighbor is very valuable assets and preferable than having strong enemy right in front of your door.
But somehow ID and AU relationship is not in the top list of both sides priority list. AU prefer having "sufficient" distance towards ID, rather than fully committed to deepening relationship with ID, SBY could be the most pro AU president ever but yet what did AU did? They spied on him, they wasted the opportunity to start a new era of relationship with ID.
AU prefer buddy buddy up with the toughest guy in the school that is in the different class, rather than buddying up guys in his own class, mixing to the group and acknowledge that he is just a transfer student.
As for ID, we only give attention to AU if there is something happen, and more focusing on other countries which is I support. Close neighbor but both are not the largest trading partner. As a developed country AU doesn't invest much in ID there are many other countries that have bigger investment in ID, involved in many infra project, involved in defence development project etc.

just my two cents.
Oh yeah and there is west papua issue too.

 

[Cromwell]

Sub Saharan African level indeed.

Pretty much Australia have superior navy and air force to guard their northern area which is like a "maginot line" for them.
Shortfin-barracuda(future), hobart class, hunter class(future), P8, wedgetail, F35, and far higher defense budget pretty much they are ahead of us. It's a delicate equilibrium, AU have superior navy and air force but we have larger army and it is in balance, it is highly unlikely that ID and AU wil drawn into a conflict but if we put it on paper AU would triumph both in air and sea and could land their forces to some of our small island, for a larger islands pretty much they will have a hard time to survive, they could even be wiped out if they land in Java, and for ID it will hard to penetrate the "maginot line" but if succeed AU will saw large number of troops coming south. AU will having hard time securing many island, not to mention our capital now is in the most populous island in the world. It will be difficult for ID to move south crossing the AU continent and will keep being harrassed by RAF. No decisive victory for both side.
In the scenario when AU and ID can co exist peacefully which is more likely, ID economy will keep kicking and ID defense budget will increase, AU superiority in "maginot line" will be diminished, not in the near future tho.
It's better if AU and ID become friend rather than adversaries, having strong and friendly neighbor is very valuable assets and preferable than having strong enemy right in front of your door.
But somehow ID and AU relationship is not in the top list of both sides priority list. AU prefer having "sufficient" distance towards ID, rather than fully committed to deepening relationship with ID, SBY could be the most pro AU president ever but yet what did AU did? They spied on him, they wasted the opportunity to start a new era of relationship with ID.
AU prefer buddy buddy up with the toughest guy in the school that is in the different class, rather than buddying up guys in his own class, mixing to the group and acknowledge that he is just a transfer student.
As for ID, we only give attention to AU if there is something happen, and more focusing on other countries which is I support. Close neighbor but both are not the largest trading partner. As a developed country AU doesn't invest much in ID there are many other countries that have bigger investment in ID, involved in many infra project, involved in defence development project etc.

just my two cents.
Oh yeah and there is west papua issue too.

Actually many potentials can be developed for mutual benefits of both nations. In 1st attempt on economic matters since both are G20 members, we should hope Indonesia Australia CEPA ratified immidiately by both legislative councils that would be interesting 1st move to improve billateral relations. Start by economics 1st

Keel laying of 2 PC-40 in PT Caputra Mitra Sejati Shipyard, Serang, Banten (07/18/2019)
Credit to : Fb page Lembaga Kajian Pertahanan Negara Strategis

 

[Nike]

Sub Saharan African level indeed.

Pretty much Australia have superior navy and air force to guard their northern area which is like a "maginot line" for them.
Shortfin-barracuda(future), hobart class, hunter class(future), P8, wedgetail, F35, and far higher defense budget pretty much they are ahead of us. It's a delicate equilibrium, AU have superior navy and air force but we have larger army and it is in balance, it is highly unlikely that ID and AU wil drawn into a conflict but if we put it on paper AU would triumph both in air and sea and could land their forces to some of our small island, for a larger islands pretty much they will have a hard time to survive, they could even be wiped out if they land in Java, and for ID it will hard to penetrate the "maginot line" but if succeed AU will saw large number of troops coming south. AU will having hard time securing many island, not to mention our capital now is in the most populous island in the world. It will be difficult for ID to move south crossing the AU continent and will keep being harrassed by RAF. No decisive victory for both side.
In the scenario when AU and ID can co exist peacefully which is more likely, ID economy will keep kicking and ID defense budget will increase, AU superiority in "maginot line" will be diminished, not in the near future tho.
It's better if AU and ID become friend rather than adversaries, having strong and friendly neighbor is very valuable assets and preferable than having strong enemy right in front of your door.
But somehow ID and AU relationship is not in the top list of both sides priority list. AU prefer having "sufficient" distance towards ID, rather than fully committed to deepening relationship with ID, SBY could be the most pro AU president ever but yet what did AU did? They spied on him, they wasted the opportunity to start a new era of relationship with ID.
AU prefer buddy buddy up with the toughest guy in the school that is in the different class, rather than buddying up guys in his own class, mixing to the group and acknowledge that he is just a transfer student.
As for ID, we only give attention to AU if there is something happen, and more focusing on other countries which is I support. Close neighbor but both are not the largest trading partner. As a developed country AU doesn't invest much in ID there are many other countries that have bigger investment in ID, involved in many infra project, involved in defence development project etc.

just my two cents.
Oh yeah and there is west papua issue too.

Binkov battleground assessment is quite relevant and fair. Well, we are a trillion dollar club and our military hardware and level of organization still being geared toward COIN ops, and still trying to do hit and run tactics. Came on, you are big country, just do it like on how big boys do their game

 

[Cromwell]

Indonesia allocates USD143 million for two naval hydrographic vessels
Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - Jane's Navy International
17 July 2019
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Key Points
Indonesia has approved an additional sum of IDR2.04 trillion for the country's 2019 defence budget
The funds will be allocated towards the procurement of hydrographic survey vessels that can be quickly converted into vessels of opportunity for submarine rescue
The Indonesian Ministry of Finance has approved an additional IDR2.04 trillion (USD143 million) for the country's 2019 defence budget, with a view on accelerating the procurement process for two new hydrographic survey ships that can be swiftly converted into vessels of opportunity (VOO) for submarine rescue operations.

The funds will be added to the country's previously approved 2019 defence budget of IDR108 trillion, according to an official document seen by Jane's on 17 July.

https://www.janes.com/article/89932...43-million-for-two-naval-hydrographic-vessels

Indonesia allocates 143 Millions US$ for 2 naval hydrographic vessels.

 

[Nike]

Indonesia allocates USD143 million for two naval hydrographic vessels
Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - Jane's Navy International
17 July 2019
Follow
RSS

Key Points
Indonesia has approved an additional sum of IDR2.04 trillion for the country's 2019 defence budget
The funds will be allocated towards the procurement of hydrographic survey vessels that can be quickly converted into vessels of opportunity for submarine rescue
The Indonesian Ministry of Finance has approved an additional IDR2.04 trillion (USD143 million) for the country's 2019 defence budget, with a view on accelerating the procurement process for two new hydrographic survey ships that can be swiftly converted into vessels of opportunity (VOO) for submarine rescue operations.

The funds will be added to the country's previously approved 2019 defence budget of IDR108 trillion, according to an official document seen by Jane's on 17 July.

https://www.janes.com/article/89932...43-million-for-two-naval-hydrographic-vessels

Indonesia allocates 143 Millions US$ for 2 naval hydrographic vessels.

Another rigel class?

 

[Cromwell]

Another rigel class?

My 1st thought about them.

 

[Gundala]

Filling in that role of heavier fighter with heavier payload, higher performace and wider range of capability than Falcon, i think KFX/IFX will fit in that role just fine (they are designed for that requirement in mind anyway), as it is pretty much on the level of F-18 Hornet-Super Hornet in term of loaded weight, and the fact that it used F414 engine, it's performance won't be that far of from them, and IFX variant is projected to have higher range and higher capacity drop tanks to suit Indonesia's need. Not to mention that currently KFX/IFX program is seeking less dependence on US made components, so US sanction won't be that much of a trouble compared to with the case of F-16 and Flankers (US could still sanction us economically for these Flankers)

Agree 100%!! Logical ways (not necessarily politicaly correct) is to delay the SU purchased and proceed with Viper. Perhaps wait and see how situation develop. I remembered they have agreed on building SU maintenance facility, but I am skeptical that it would be materialize. Meanwhile we can go see how the IFX prototype goes, if its promising then for the sake of commonality maybe we can see if the SU purchase can benefit us or the other way around.

Self sufficient is a way, should emulate what the Turks and South Korean do and doing harder twice or even thrice of their efforts and should increase the defense budget and allocated more R and D budget from education budget into an actual thing in military sector by financing R and D from LIPI, BPPT and other universities in colab project with the armed forces (like combat medic Healthcare, technical (like material compositions for armor, RCWS and robotic arms, military ships and other) , pengindraan jarak jauh and rocket tech. )

R&D, yea take some of those research fund from our 20% federal educational budget and put it in LIPI, BPPT and universities to colab in making something that can be use, produce, and sell whether for armed forces, metalurgy for our dying krakatau steel, radar, UAV, etc. But I emphasis again, it has to be something that later on can be use, produce and sell thus create economic effect.

Well generally Non Anglosphere countries especially France doesn't care oh how their military products being used by the operator which is extra points for Asian & African countries ( developing countries trying to build their military ). French even did supply Argentine Exocet missiles and provided technical assistances during Falkland War 1984 againts UK ( fellow NATO nation ). You want a country which sells their arms even provides friendly ToT without political string then Israel. Business is business for them they even provided assistances for indigeneous defence industries of South Africa during heavily condemned and opposed Apartheid regime back then

French did that? I love this forum, always learning something new everyday. Thank you, so Rafalle, meteor, excocet III is on the table? hehehe j/k. High price but less headache?

 

[Cromwell]

Agree 100%!! Logical ways (not necessarily politicaly correct) is to delay the SU purchased and proceed with Viper. Perhaps wait and see how situation develop. I remembered they have agreed on building SU maintenance facility, but I am skeptical that it would be materialize. Meanwhile we can go see how the IFX prototype goes, if its promising then for the sake of commonality maybe we can see if the SU purchase can benefit us or the other way around.



R&D, yea take some of those research fund from our 20% federal educational budget and put it in LIPI, BPPT and universities to colab in making something that can be use, produce, and sell whether for armed forces, metalurgy for our dying krakatau steel, radar, UAV, etc. But I emphasis again, it has to be something that later on can be use, produce and sell thus create economic effect.



French did that? I love this forum, always learning something new everyday. Thank you, so Rafalle, meteor, excocet III is on the table? hehehe j/k. High price but less headache?

Rafale though entire components are genuinely 100% French is expensive though as for MBDA Meteor, it costs twice Raytheon AMRAAM and what platform to use it ?

 

[Nike]

Will it be a decent buy if we are trying to acquire them?

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...BZI3dWGNxHczkWciItAHscT-xYnMZR4SJzDgUPhi-2VgI

 

[Cromwell]

Will it be a decent buy if we are trying to acquire them?

https://www.defensenews.com/global/...BZI3dWGNxHczkWciItAHscT-xYnMZR4SJzDgUPhi-2VgI

Our needs are aerial refuelling aircrafts which can do both systems; 1) Flying boom & 2) Probe & Drogue. KC-135 though can only do 1st one besides RSAF KC-135 are already old, they were bought 2nd hand from US in 1997.

 

[Nike]

Our needs are aerial refuelling aircrafts which can do both systems; 1) Flying boom & 2) Probe & Drogue. KC-135 though can only do 1st one besides RSAF KC-135 are already old, they were bought 2nd hand from US in 1997.

Well i think so too, btw what about the possible air refueling system of KFX?

 

[Cromwell]

Well i think so too, btw what about the possible air refueling system of KFX?

In Fb page Republic of Korea Armed Forces
I've read that it does both but i'm not sure, it's been a while since i read the article.
Correction

 

[Soman45]

KF-X update news

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/9...-rakorsus-pengembangan-pesawat-tempur-kfx-ifx

https://tirto.id/pemerintah-akan-kurangi-share-proyek-pesawat-tempur-kfx-dan-if-x-eewW

I'm curious about what the korean think when we ask so many demands but we also want the bigger part of this project (LoL) is this really okay with them? why they so soft to us even their situation is at disadvantageous in this project compare to us? what do you think?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

KF-X news

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/9...-rakorsus-pengembangan-pesawat-tempur-kfx-ifx

I'm curious about what the korean official think when we ask so many demands but we also want the bigger part of this project (LoL) is this really okay with them? why they so soft to us even their situation is at disadvantageous in this project compare to us? what do you think?

They gain market for their toys & access to our production facility among other things.