Indonesia Aerospace Forum

[Indos]

LAPAN satellite mission control centre

 

[Indos]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1208532386830376961

 

[Indos]

PTDI new company profile video

 

[Indos]

I doubt Jokowi want to finance N 245 project within his second term administration. So I guess we only can see this project starting to build its prototype inshaAllah in the next administration (2024-2029). For the mean time, PTDI need to focus its effort to sell N 219 once its certification is completed.

N 219 seems to be a life blood project that can at least maintain PTDI current production capacity with the hope it can further increase it if the demand is large. As we know, both CN 235 and NC 212 aircraft sales are decreasing and there is no contract that is signed last year. The most probable sales that we can expect for both CN 235 and NC 212 is from Philippine for additional 6 NC 212 that await their parliament approval, CN 235 gunship for Thailand tender, and our own armed force need for CN 235 MPA and ASW. There are also Malaysian and Bangladesh need to have medium range MPA aircraft.

In my opinion, N 245 project has bigger chance then N 219 to boost PTDI sales and revenue since the demand is quite big both for domestic and global market that is currently fulfilled by ATR 42 aircraft.

 

[Nike]

I doubt Jokowi want to finance N 245 project within his second term administration. So I guess we only can see this project starting to build its prototype inshaAllah in the next administration (2024-2029). For the mean time, PTDI need to focus its effort to sell N 219 once its certification is completed.

N 219 seems to be a life blood project that can at least maintain PTDI current production capacity with the hope it can further increase it if the demand is large. As we know, both CN 235 and NC 212 aircraft sales are decreasing and there is no contract that is signed last year. The most probable sales that we can expect for both CN 235 and NC 212 is from Philippine for additional 6 NC 212 that await their parliament approval, CN 235 gunship for Thailand tender, and our own armed force need for CN 235 MPA and ASW. There are also Malaysian and Bangladesh need to have medium range MPA aircraft.

In my opinion, N 245 project has bigger chance then N 219 to boost PTDI sales and revenue since the demand is quite big both for domestic and global market that is currently fulfilled by ATR 42 aircraft.

Jokowi dont give shit about aerospace research actually compared to SBY he is focused much toward infrastructure, investment and current account deficite. Just look at Rhan project, actually after completing Rhan 122 they should move toward larger caliber units, but research funds been stopped and LAPAN and BPPT can only using their own internal budget to continue the research and wishing to rope other BUMN to partake into the project.

 

[Indos]

Jokowi dont give shit about aerospace research actually compared to SBY he is focused much toward infrastructure, investment and current account deficite. Just look at Rhan project, actually after completing Rhan 122 they should move toward larger caliber units, but research funds been stopped and LAPAN and BPPT can only using their own internal budget to continue the research and wishing to rope other BUMN to partake into the project.

I hope the financing can be taken from Defense Minister instead, particularly for cruise missile (including turbojet) and rocket development. This is why RX 450 rocket IMO was financed by defense ministry last year that make them launched the rocket at December 2018 with the code name Rhan. This rocket is also supposed to be launched again at 23 December last year and actually has conducted static test in the middle of that year. There is picture of that static test in LAPAN website. So I think statement from Alman Helvas that current government stop our rocket development is not true.

According to LAPAN, rocket is part of their priority program so the program IMO will be continued despite lack of fund from Jokowi. It is true that LAPAN budget is a bit slashed for 2020 period by Jokowi, but I hope Defense Minister can offset it by using his own budget (since defense budget is increased in 2020 period), especially for LAPAN rocket development.

I believe both Prabowo and Safrie Samsudin understand the important of missile and rocket development and will do necessary effort to help the program. And with LAPAN joined our MALE UAV program so I guess there will be fund which will also be spared for SAR radar development, something that my cousin (working in gov research agency-radar specialist) has confirmed.

Jokowi is somehow not to be too ambitious on defense research but at least the research on various defense projects are still going on under his first administration, although not optimal. I hope recent positive development on both our trade balance and currency plus positive outlook from World Bank and other foreign institution on our economy prospect can make him give more funding on our defense research, something that hopefully can be seen in government 2021 budget plan.

 

[Nike]

I hope the financing can be taken from Defense Minister instead, particularly for cruise missile (including turbojet) and rocket development. This is why RX 450 rocket IMO was financed by defense ministry last year that make them launched the rocket at December 2018 with the code name Rhan. This rocket is also supposed to be launched again at 23 December last year and actually has conducted static test in the middle of that year. There is picture of that static test in LAPAN website. So I think statement from Alman Helvas that current government stop our rocket development is not true.

According to LAPAN, rocket is part of their priority program so the program IMO will be continued despite lack of fund from Jokowi. It is true that LAPAN budget is a bit slashed for 2020 period by Jokowi, but I hope Defense Minister can offset it by using his own budget (since defense budget is increased in 2020 period), especially for LAPAN rocket development.

I believe both Prabowo and Safrie Samsudin understand the important of missile and rocket development and will do necessary effort to help the program. And with LAPAN joined our MALE UAV program so I guess there will be fund which will also be spared for SAR radar development, something that my cousin (working in gov research agency-radar specialist) has confirmed.

Jokowi is somehow not to be too ambitious on defense research but at least the research on various defense projects are still going on under his first administration, although not optimal. I hope recent positive development on both our trade balance and currency plus positive outlook from World Bank and other foreign institution on our economy prospect can make him give more funding on our defense research, something that hopefully can be seen in government 2021 budget plan.

He is more care about current account deficit, everything without tangible results and been counted as sunken cost had been slashed greatly, thats why he is so keen to slash even KFX/IFX contribution funds, let alone our development of rocket program which rocket motor engine and their gyroscope gear along with their INS tools largely imported.

 

[NEKONEKO]

I doubt Jokowi want to finance N 245 project within his second term administration. So I guess we only can see this project starting to build its prototype inshaAllah in the next administration (2024-2029). For the mean time, PTDI need to focus its effort to sell N 219 once its certification is completed.

N 219 seems to be a life blood project that can at least maintain PTDI current production capacity with the hope it can further increase it if the demand is large. As we know, both CN 235 and NC 212 aircraft sales are decreasing and there is no contract that is signed last year. The most probable sales that we can expect for both CN 235 and NC 212 is from Philippine for additional 6 NC 212 that await their parliament approval, CN 235 gunship for Thailand tender, and our own armed force need for CN 235 MPA and ASW. There are also Malaysian and Bangladesh need to have medium range MPA aircraft.

In my opinion, N 245 project has bigger chance then N 219 to boost PTDI sales and revenue since the demand is quite big both for domestic and global market that is currently fulfilled by ATR 42 aircraft.

N219 harus didorong juga ke pasar internasional, ke ASEAN seperti Filipina dll, terus India juga kelihatannya bakal butuh pesawat kek N219 dalam jumlah banyak, untuk India mereka juga mengembangkan 19 seater saras, meskipun pengembangannya nggak lancar dan prototipe jatuh. N219 kita pengembangannya lebih sukses, sekarang mereka lagi nyoba ngembangin yang mk2 tapi kalau misal gagal lagi, PT DI bisa ngepush produknya, lumayan kalau India mau beli banyak.

N219

Saras

 

[Indos]

He is more care about current account deficit, everything without tangible results and been counted as sunken cost had been slashed greatly, thats why he is so keen to slash even KFX/IFX contribution funds, let alone our development of rocket program which rocket motor engine and their gyroscope gear along with their INS tools largely imported.

Can you prove your statement saying LAPAN use imported rocket motor engine ? From what I read from available online document, LAPAN has used its own design rocket motor engine since the first RX-1 rocket launch which is in 1980.

Inertial Navigation System is under development (from LAPAN journal 2007), I dont know what is the latest development from it, but at least they try to make it themselves.

N219 harus didorong juga ke pasar internasional, ke ASEAN seperti Filipina dll, terus India juga kelihatannya bakal butuh pesawat kek N219 dalam jumlah banyak, untuk India mereka juga mengembangkan 19 seater saras, meskipun pengembangannya nggak lancar dan prototipe jatuh. N219 kita pengembangannya lebih sukses, sekarang mereka lagi nyoba ngembangin yang mk2 tapi kalau misal gagal lagi, PT DI bisa ngepush produknya, lumayan kalau India mau beli banyak.

N219

Saras
View attachment 599900 View attachment 599901

Yup, it looks like N 219 program run more smoothly than Saras and it is near completion for its certification. It can surely be marketed to India, Europe, MENA region, South East Asian, and African countries if the program is success in its certification phase. The main competitors IMO are still Twin Otter and the Chinese plane.

 

[Nike]

Can you prove your statement saying LAPAN use imported rocket motor engine ? From what I read from available online document, LAPAN has used its own design rocket motor engine since the first RX-1 rocket launch which is in 1980.

Inertial Navigation System is under development (from LAPAN journal 2007), I dont know what is the latest development from it, but at least they try to make it themselves.



Yup, it looks like N 219 program run more smoothly than Saras and it is near completion for its certification. It can surely be marketed to India, Europe, MENA region, South East Asian, and African countries if the program is success in its certification phase. The main competitors IMO are still Twin Otter and the Chinese plane.

there is two supplier of rocket engines used in rhan program, Arsenal Jsco and excalibur... thats what i can said for now

 

[Indos]

It is clear that LAPAN design and made its own rockets motor engine.

Here is LAPAN rocket motor engine development directly from its website

Rocket Motor Technology

The Rocket Motor Technology Lab has the task of carrying out research, development and engineering activities of rocket motor, as well as preparing the materials for implementing technical cooperation in their fields. In carrying out its duties, the Rocket Motor Technology Lab organizes functions:
a. The preparation of the Rocket Motor Technology lab activity plan
b. Implementation of Research and Development activities on Solid Rocket Motor Technology, Liquid Rockets and Advanced Propulsion
c. Implementation of Design, Assembling and Testing of solid rocket motors, Liquid rockets and Advanced Propulsion
d. Implementation of fluid dynamics simulation and analysis activities Solid rocket propulsion, liquid rocket and advanced propulsion systems
e. Implementation of control system assessment activities on liquid rocket and forward propulsion and testing
f. Implementation of research, development and analysis activities to improve the performance of solid rocket motors, liquid rockets and Advanced Propulsion
g. Implementation of testing service and information on performance data on solid rocket propulsion, liquid rocket and advanced propulsion systems;
h. Evaluate and prepare reports on the results of program implementation

The Rocket Motor Technology Lab consists of a number of researchers in the Laboratory of Mechanical Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Physical Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Aerodynamics, Fluid Dynamics, Physics, Applied Mathematics, Thermodynamics, Material Technology, Instrumentation, and other related labs as well as technicians, analysts and laboratory assistants in functional positions divided into groups:
a. Solid Rocket Motor Research Group.
b. Liquid Rocket Engineering Research Group
c. Advanced Propulsion Research Group
d. The Liquid Control and Propulsion Control Research Group is advanced
e. Computational and Fluid Dynamics Research Group
f. Rocket Motor Test Acquisition Data Research Group.

Solid Rocket Motor Research Group.
The solid rocket motor research group has the task of carrying out research, development and analysis activities and designing solid rocket propulsion systems, including the design of grain propellant configuration, nozzle contour, cap and rocket motor combustion chamber system, with various dimensions of size according to the expected mission in the framework of developing satellite launchers and conversion rockets.

The Solid Rocket Motor research group, conducting the formulation and determination of the design of a solid rocket propulsion system, includes:
a. Dimension and configuration of propellant grain, combustion chamber dimensions, contour nozzle dimensions, cap dimensions, inhibitor models
b. Laying sensor testing system, which is tailored to the needs of the data to be obtained for the purposes of analysis
c. Repair and analysis of performance of solid rocket propulsion systems so that the expected performance is obtained
d. Design and test a disk rupture system that can be used to improve initial thrust performance.

Liquid Rocket Engineering Research Group The Liquid Rocket Engineering Research Group has the task of carrying out research, development and analysis activities as well as designing Liquid rocket propulsion systems, including combustion chamber design, feed systems, cooling systems, fuel types and oxidizing agents, nozzle contour, and component selection a machine that can function well, with various dimensions according to the mission expected in the framework of developing satellite launchers and conversion rocket.

The liquid rocket engineering research group conducted the formulation and determination of the liquid rocket engine system including:
a. Engine dimensions and configurations are in accordance with the engine capacity that has been done
b. Nozzle dimensions, combustion chamber, and engine components are adjusted to their needs
c. The igniter system starts with various ignition methods including pillets and spark systems
d. Feeder system and selection of fuel and its oxidizing agents
e. Storage and treatment system for liquid rocket fuel and its accessories
f. System for the use and placement of sensors testing sensors and monitoring characteristics of liquid rocket engines
g. Repair and analysis of rocket engine performance to get the best engine system

Advanced Propulsion Research Group
Advanced Propulsion research group has the task to carry out research, development, analysis and design of advanced propulsion systems, including design of engine systems that can provide thrust force and pressure and temperature that can be maintained so that it can be utilized for the benefit of rocket booster diversification systems, both for rocket conversion as well as satellite launch rockets
The advanced propulsion research group conducts the formulation and determination of the advanced propulsion system including:
a. The engine system and configuration are in accordance with the engine capacity that has been done
b. The choice of thrust, pressure and temperature generating systems that can be used as a flying vehicle
c. Nozzle dimensions, combustion chamber, and engine components are adjusted to their needs
d. The ignition system starts with various ignition methods which are adapted to the needs of the rocket engine
e. Use

https://pustekroket.lapan.go.id/index.php/subblog/pages/2014/7/Teknologi-Motor-Roket

 

[Indos]

Another one. This journal clearly stated that RX 450 rocket motor engine is designed and made by LAPAN

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Design and Performance Prediction of Solid Rocket Motor for RX 450 Ballistic rocket

Abstract

A solid rocket motor for RX450 ballistic rocket has been developed. RX450 has a diameter of 450 mm and total length 6200 mm with a length of 3700 mm grain propellant. Composite propellant used to design this solid rocket motor. Star shape has been selected to design the rocket motor grain. Grain length and nozzle throat area has been determined. Performance prediction has been calculated. Prediction of chamber pressure is calculated using mass balance and zero dimensional models. Chamber pressure and thrust prediction compared with the static test results. The results show that zero-dimensional model provides more accurate prediction than mass balance model

http://repository.lapan.go.id/index.php?p=show_detail&id=4182&keywords=

 

[Indos]

According to a rumor based on unidentified source, N219 will fly to Singapore and participate in Singapore Airshow this February for static show.

 

[Indos]

N 219 flight certificate will be completed in the middle of this year according to PT Dirgantara Director. The real contract for this plane is actually only signed for just 4 aircrafts which is intended for Aceh Province. After the fight certificate is completed inshaAllah, PT DI can start producing N 219 for Aceh province.

The real question is there any real demand for this aircraft especially for domestic market ? Time that will answer that but as this plane will be promoted on Singapore Airshow this February, we will see whether there are actually other real demand for this aircraft after the development is near finished.

PT DI still has some time to promote the aircraft as the first mass produced plane will only be delivered in 2022. Despite so, I think many airlines are actually still waiting for its certificate completion that is predicted to be reach in June or July this year. And we should thank to Aceh government because they have signed the deal for 4 airplanes that will make PT DI can start production as soon as the certificate is taken.

Indonesia gears up to mass-produce, export N-219 aircraft

• News Desk
  The Jakarta Post
  

PREMIUM
Jakarta / Fri, February 7, 2020 / 02:33 pm

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...up-to-mass-produce-export-n-219-aircraft.html

 

[Indos]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1227113159086895104