Indo-Russian 5th Generation PAK-FA/FGFA is dead

[Blue Marlin]

You can check out the amount of money spent by India on Russian defense products in the last decade alone and compare it with the west.

the list is a lengthy one

1) INS Vikramaditya
2) Talwar class frigates
3) INS Chakra Nuke submarine
4) T 90 tanks
5) Su 30 MKIs
6) Mig 29's
7) Radars, anti aircraft missiles
8) PAK FA
9) Smerch MBRL
10)Brahmos
11) Mi 28 Helicopters

etc...etc.....

i know the list is big

let me put it to you like this would you prefer a il-76 or a c17?
c17 right...
india has been given a taste of western kit and its very unlikely they will ignore it. russia will be second best now. they get what they can from the west and the rest from russia. no western country will lease you a nuclear sub, but russia will.
thats why they droped the weapons ban on pakistan. they know you will be less dependant on them in the future. the russians are milking you for as long as possible, untill you are not dependant on their tech any more.

 

[Srinivas]

i know the list is big

let me put it to you like this would you prefer a il-76 or a c17?
c17 right...
india has been given a taste of western kit and its very unlikely they will ignore it. russia will be second best now. they get what they can from the west and the rest from russia. no western country will lease you a nuclear sub, but russia will.
thats why they droped the weapons ban on pakistan. they know you will be less dependant on them in the future. the russians are milking you for as long as possible, untill you are not dependant on their tech any more.

Russia comes with full ToT and no sanctions unlike west.

There are huge opportunities in Nuclear technology field as well, 20 reactors are being built in India with Russian co operation plus there is a talk of leasing second nuke sub marine.

Russia is a time tested friend for India unlike west.

India trusts Russia, simple as that. We never forget the favors Russia has done to India.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Russia comes with full ToT and no sanctions unlike west.

There are huge opportunities in Nuclear technology field as well, 20 reactors are being built in India with Russian co operation plus there is a talk of leasing second nuke sub marine.

Russia is a time tested friend for India unlike west.

India trusts Russia, simple as that. We never forget the favors Russia has done to India.

tell that to your leaders not me....
the axis this changing buddy....you either live with it or you dont

 

[Srinivas]

tell that to your leaders not me....
the axis this changing buddy....you either live with it or you dont

I do study Indian foreign policy closely and Russia has a very special place in Indian foreign policy.

There is a very close co operation between the two countries in Central Asia and other Global Issues.

Russia and India are strategically placed on either side of China.

Fact is there is lot of trust deficit between India and the west. There are no such issues between India and Russia. Western nations have the supremacist attitude which annoys foreign policy makers in India, their mischief and other doings makes it worse.

 

[SR-91]

Russia confidance on india dying every day y inot giving acces to india and only IAF can but 1 squadron these are massive things

Russian attitude to pakistan getting better tell u everything

Russian policy is good because in global map indian policies contrdict with rusian policies

For example india Support USA in syria but russia oppose it


Bhai where are these stupid people who never listen to me in 2009 that russia will have distance from india

Reread ur post.
Every Indian is probably laughing at you right now.

Anyways, happy holidays!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chanakyaa]

i know the list is big

let me put it to you like this would you prefer a il-76 or a c17?
c17 right...
india has been given a taste of western kit and its very unlikely they will ignore it. russia will be second best now. they get what they can from the west and the rest from russia. no western country will lease you a nuclear sub, but russia will.
thats why they droped the weapons ban on pakistan. they know you will be less dependant on them in the future. the russians are milking you for as long as possible, untill you are not dependant on their tech any more.

Well Its Actually True.
People rarely realize, we are yet to recieve the FULL ToT on Brahmos.. which is actually a 600KM Missile !

However, "Milking" is not the right word, we have recieved the Russian support in times and Areas where NO WESTERN Nation Can :

- Cryo Engines
- Nuclear Sub Reactor Design
- Brahmos
- Seekers
- UnInterrupted / UnConditional Support since 1960s. They Stood by as in our Hard Days.
etc.

 

[jaydee]

Now that FGFA is dead what are the implications on AMCA and prospects of F-35 Acquisition

Your analysis was right yesterday about PM's visit being a damp squib.

 

[sovcomflot]

i know the list is big

let me put it to you like this would you prefer a il-76 or a c17?
c17 right...
india has been given a taste of western kit and its very unlikely they will ignore it. russia will be second best now. they get what they can from the west and the rest from russia. no western country will lease you a nuclear sub, but russia will.
thats why they droped the weapons ban on pakistan. they know you will be less dependant on them in the future. the russians are milking you for as long as possible, untill you are not dependant on their tech any more.

Price of C-17 is very high compared to Il-476 . If the spares of Il-476 were as easily available as the C-130/C-17 ,then India would have continued relying on further Il-76's .

Il-76's are heavily used for UN ops . Something that C-17 is not as C-17 is bloody expensive.

 

[knight11]

tell that to your leaders not me....
the axis this changing buddy....you either live with it or you dont

With western what do you means Europe or US ?

With Europe -- We were buying weapon from france and UK for long

With US -- Problem, is to get the full potential, we have to sign various other treaties like CISMOA and Indian Policies don't allow this, nor the politically simple as that.

BTW India is buying weapon on the basis of requirement and cost -- So buying with the west you can take as not puttiong all egg in one basket.

Enjoy these pics

 

[Ragnar]

India better invest in Rafale for the long term. Russia has neither the capital nor the tech for a 5th gen. Their Soviet era tech base has run out of steam. Russia is fast descending to pariah status, and association with them could be diplomatically problematic. Besides that, given the convergent geo-political interests, Russian and Chinese arms programmes will intersect at some point- especially for big ticket items. That is a big security risk.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I do study Indian foreign policy closely and I feel Russia has a very special place in Indian foreign policy.

There is a very close co operation between the two countries in Central Asia and other Global Issues.

well let me give you my input so you can see things on whats happening through my perspective.

russia and india have been close since the 50's. india's rival pakistan was close to the west. this is because of soviet intervention in afganistan and 9/11. or in lamans terms the war in afganistan. during that time they got advanced tech gunships, fighters, missiles etc... at the same time russia and india have been invlved in huge defence deals.

now when nato was out of afganistan, or most of it they did not need pakistan and opened way for defence busines with india. also shortly after india's new pm, mr modi mushed for "make in india " and this accelerated defence deals/cooperation. pakistan on the other hand is being leveraged out as business with india is larger than businss with pakistan. the usa is unique in the sense that it will not drop pakistan as a reciepient of weapons as it will lose influence and a market there.
now in my opinion the c17 and the c130-j was nectar to india as they were baffeled with what they were seeing. the differance in quality was significant and this paved way for more business with western companies. india's relation with russia will not change nor will it's normal trade.

russia exports a huge amount of its weapons to india. once india is moving to the west russia will look to new markets (pakistan) regardless of the size. common sense bud. but india will have to do a delicate balancing act of russia and the west to maintain good relations.

With western what do you means Europe or US ?

With Europe -- We were buying weapon from france and UK for long

With US -- Problem, is to get the full potential, we have to sign various other treaties like CISMOA and Indian Policies don't allow this, nor the politically simple as that.

BTW India is buying weapon on the basis of requirement and cost -- So buying with the west you can take as not puttiong all egg in one basket.

Enjoy these pics

what else do you think westen is?
isnt that what you call us....western.
india has pruchased kit from the west but now its in large quantities.

enjoy this

 

[Srinivas]

russia exports a huge amount of its weapons to india. once india is moving to the west russia will look to new markets (pakistan) regardless of the size. common sense bud. but india will have to do a delicate balancing act of russia and the west to maintain good relations.

You are correct here !

 

[Blue Marlin]

Price of C-17 is very high compared to Il-476 . If the spares of Il-476 were as easily available as the C-130/C-17 ,then India would have continued relying on further Il-76's .

Il-76's are heavily used for UN ops . Something that C-17 is not as C-17 is bloody expensive.

i heard the il-76 are hangar queens as they are quiet old now.
the il-476 is in essence a new planes as 80% of the plane is new
TASS: Business & Economy - Deputy PM: Russia must have its own aircraft industry

Well Its Actually True.
People rarely realize, we are yet to recieve the FULL ToT on Brahmos.. which is actually a 600KM Missile !

However, "Milking" is not the right word, we have recieved the Russian support in times and Areas where NO WESTERN Nation Can :

- Cryo Engines
- Nuclear Sub Reactor Design
- Brahmos
- Seekers
- UnInterrupted / UnConditional Support since 1960s. They Stood by as in our Hard Days.
etc.

you just put iceing sugar on my words lad.
if they cant get it in the west then go to russia

 

[sovcomflot]

i heard the il-76 are hangar queens as they are quiet old now.
the il-476 is in essence a new planes as 80% of the plane is new
TASS: Business & Economy - Deputy PM: Russia must have its own aircraft industry


you just put iceing sugar on my words lad.
if they cant get it in the west then go to russia

What you hear is irrelevant. Il-76 was and is excellent and is still used massively for UN ops. Does the West even have an analogue of An-124-100? Almost all oil and gas equipment,heavy generators is airlifted by An-124-100 in one piece something that Western aircraft are not capable of.

Again there are a lot of paid corrupt politicans with considerable clout in Russia ,Like Chubais who is rumored to be on the payroll of Big western corporations .Thanks to people like these,the machine tools industry is dismal and hence the after sales is also dismal.

The main reason for India's shift was the dismal after sales .

 

[Slave_to_the_waffle]

this is your 3rd account how come you dont you stick to the one. i know the first account you had trouble logging into by the second is no excuse.

I always have an excuse - security. When I left both the first and second times I actually deleted my log in email. Add a new computer, and thus a new IP, and changed passwords and my ability to prove my identity to Webby is limited, especially as he doesn't know me or has ever seen photos of me, as Nihonjin and Armstrong have.

I can't reset a password that's sent to an email that doesn't exist.

how comes he's a hospital. have you been giving him migrains

No, no he's used to me rambling. Baby's coming a few weeks early. He's a good husband to be by his wife's side, even during the holidays.

The due date was mid-January, but some complications have arisen.

fair enough at least theres one sain norwegian/swedish member here.

Can't be me:

I'm certifiably insane.

Who?