Indigenous Arjun MBT has Only 42% Indigenous Content

[barak8]

^^^^ how this related to thread ?????????????????

 

[Titanium]

^^^^ how this related to thread ?????????????????

Yeah Yeah how is this related

I am telling some braindeads not to bring Al-khalid, jf-17, but they do all the time.....


Stick to the topic, see barak is unhappy

 

[Titanium]

Getting back to the discussion, do anyone know which thermal sights are being used in Arjun?

 

[ironman]

Fair enough, Lets go through each item by item

* Designed by Karuss -west German

In your dreams....

* Tank Gun - Rifled, British

120 Millimetre MBT Arjun Armament System

* Engine -- MTU, German

Yes It is.. For your eyes only..http://www.drdo.org/tender/desidoc/desidoc29mar07sp2.pdf

* Transmission -- Renk, German

Indigenous is on trails will be replaced with RENK

* Main Gunner Sights-- Assorted, International vendors

BEL is also International...

* Tracks --Again German

The tracks which were being supplied by Diehl are now being manufactured by L&T, an Indian company.domain-b.com : Arjun main battle tank inducted in regiment strength

L&T Directors Report 2003:
"In the Defence area sample Track sections for MBT Arjun were invoiced."

* Whats left Machine soviet

* Armour,-- untested mass of metal, from the 80's research

If you don't know, ask experts.. Avoid trolling here

What is left is the hull, again via expertise of Krauss germany.

Krauss Germany simply through out their design..

I would have agreed if, DODO designed the program, alas from design to integration for everything outside help was sought.

Keep this attitude with pakdeaf..

 

[sancho]

I would have agreed if, DODO designed the program, alas from design to integration for everything outside help was sought.

This makes it just a local program, whcih is managed completely by outside consultants.

Lets compare some other developments by your logic!


JF 17:

Originally known as Super-7, the FC-1 Xiaolong was developed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation under a joint venture of China and Pakistan...

...Chengdu continued the development under the new designation FC-1 (Fighter China-1) aimed at creating an affordable fighter for the export market. In 1995 Pakistan regained interest in a joint development with China. The 1993 US sanctions prevented the PAF from acquiring Western technology or weapons. In June 1999, China and Pakistan signed the joint development and production agreement to co-develop the FC-1. Chengdu was selected as primary contractor and the Russian Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group (MASPG) was contracted to provide the Klimov RD-93 turbofan engine and design assistance too...

...The Pakistan Air Force will probably be the biggest customer and thus is strongly involved in the development of the aircraft.

Source: Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....



Al Khalid tank:

Pakistan's development of the MBT-2000 Al Khalid began in 1988, and in January 1990 an agreement was reached with China to jointly design, develop and manufacture system. The design is an upgrade from the original T902M and work had been going on at China's NORINCO for some years....

...Initial prototypes were produced in China and fielded for trials in August 1991.Pakistan's manufacturing plant at Taxila was completed in 1992. Since then development efforts have focused on improving the design for Pakistan's terrain and high temperatures. The engine of the T90 2M is replaced by the Ukrainian 6TD 1200hp engine, and a newly developed thermal viewer system has been added to improve nocturnal fighting capability.

Source: Pakistan News Service - PakTribune



So by your logic, you clearly must say that these developments can't be called indigenous, beause they were planed, designed and integrated in China and were only customised for Pakistan right?
As the official Pac Kamra site says too, Pakistan is the prime export customer of these Chinese developments and thus is strongly involved in the development (funding, re-designs, some techs).

Now try to see and understand where the difference between these developments and comparable Indian developments like Dhruv, LCA, Arjun are!
They all are planed, designed, funded, integrated and especially made for the needs of Indian forces in India. Indian forces and Indian companies are the prime operators/contractors and that exactly makes these developments indigenous!

Indian defense industry is still very young and far away from western, Russian, or even Chinese counterparts and that exactly is the reason why foreign consultancy, or parts were needed to make these develepments reality. Because all these developents are the first in their fields for India and of course it lacked in experience and know how to do it all alone. That's why we used consultancy, JV, co-developments to improve ourself and get these things done.
The experience and know how we gained through Dhruv development, even with much help and imported parts, was more than valuable for the later re-design to LCH, or the new developed LOH/LUH. These developments are indigenous again for the same reasons I mentioned above, but will contain way more Indian parts and way less foreign help.

Developments like JF 17, Al Khalid, or Pak FA /FGFA instead, where existing developments from other countries will be taken as a base, to re-design them for individual needs, are only co-developments, with some indigenous involvement.

Now in regard to Arjun, it is true that we had German consultancy in the design, but not for the whole tank (mainly for the turret, which is similar to Leopard 2), neither was it planed, or integraed outside of India. It is also true that it uses German engine and transmission in ther first versions, but only to have proven techs till we are able to build them on our own. As Ironman showed you, a new engine and transmission are already under development, gun, amour, or suspension are even Indian form the beginning.

There is no need for any Indian to be not proud of these indigenous developments, only because we had help, we bought those things we can't build alone, off the shelf. It is just a way to learn, improve and to reach self reliance somewhere in future and Pakistan is doing pretty much the same with their possibilities too!

 

[vnomad]

With regard to the imported components of the tank -

Arjun

Powerpack - MTU(Germany)
Transmission - Renk(Germany)
TI sights - Thales(France)

Tracks - earlier by Diehl, now produced by L&T



To put that in perspective-

Merkava IV (Israel)-

Powerpack - General Dynamics (licensed MTU)
Transmission - Ashot Ashkelon (licensed Renk)

K1A1 (South Korea)

Gun - Rheinmetall L44 120mm
Powerpack - MTU
Tranmission - Renk


K-2 Black Panther(South Korea)-

Gun - Rheinmetall L55 120mm(German)
Powerpack - MTU (to be replaced with domestic engine)
Autoloader design adapted from Leclerc

Leclerc (France)

Powerpack - Wartsila(Finland)
Transmission - Renk

Challenger 2 (UK) (changes part to

Gun - L30A1 (now being changed to Rheinmetall L55)
FCS - Computing Devices Co(Canada)
Panoramic Sight - Sagem(France)
TI sight - Thales(France)
Powerpack - Perkins(MTU on 2E variant)
Transmission - David Brown(Renk on 2E variant)


In addition the Italian Ariete also employs the Renk transmission. The Rheinmetall 120mm also equips the Japanese Type-90 and American M1 Abrams.

 

[vnomad]

It is not conjuncture, it is fact Arjun is crappy, coz it is a mismatched parts from divergent sources

You are looking for the word obsolete

If real world performance is the benchmark, the Arjun outperformed the T-90 in trials earlier this year as I'm sure would have been posted on the forum. That precisely why another 124 were ordered. The production line will now stay busy till the recently sanctioned MkII enters production.

 

[xMustiiej70]

I knew it.
the arjun tank is still maybe good at 1 place against 1 tank.
And im suprised its not really an indian tank.
they used for the 50% other countries resources and still it aint that good.

 

[ramu]

I knew it.
the arjun tank is still maybe good at 1 place against 1 tank.
And im suprised its not really an indian tank.
they used for the 50% other countries resources and still it aint that good.

OK ... Thanks for your opinion.

 

[chachag]

I knew it.
the arjun tank is still maybe good at 1 place against 1 tank.
And im suprised its not really an indian tank.
they used for the 50% other countries resources and still it aint that good.

Well atleast we are making 50% with Indian parts but you still using American/Israeli tanks not able to make by yourself ????

 

[lhuang]

I thought that there was only so much stupid that could be congregated in one thread. And then Mustiie posted.

 

[xMustiiej70]

Well atleast we are making 50% with Indian parts but you still using American/Israeli tanks not able to make by yourself ????

turkey plays smart.
we buy lincense with full techtransfer.
we gain technology.
ALOT.

And now.. we are developing world best overall tank.
Altay MTB.

a prototype will use 100% recources.
which has better engine and stuff

Oh and btw..
i prefer having good tanks made by germany.
then normal tanks made by myself.

 

[ironman]

turkey plays smart.
we buy lincense with full techtransfer.
we gain technology.
ALOT.

Full TOT is a myth.

And now.. we are developing world best overall tank.
Altay MTB.

Yes it will have wings too..

a prototype will use 100% recources.
which has better engine and stuff

At least make a prototype first, then talk.

Oh and btw..
i prefer having good tanks made by germany.
then normal tanks made by myself.

Then why don't you suggest your govt. to stop the yet to made world's best tank project ?

 

[xMustiiej70]

Full TOT is a myth.



Yes it will have wings too..



At least make a prototype first, then talk.



Then why don't you suggest your govt. to stop the yet to made world's best tank project ?

I see 99.9% of your post is trolling.
no serious answer..
hm..
i geuss..
i ******* dissed you.

 

[sancho]

I thought that there was only so much stupid that could be congregated in one thread. And then Mustiie posted.

At least we have to admit that he is a fighter! He gets suspended, comes back, gets suspended, comes back...
Only sad thing about him that he doesn't learn and still post the same kind of posts again and again.