India’s first nuclear submarine INS Arihant ready for operations, passes deep sea tests

[sathya]

@PARIKRAMA

Humphrey is a ex BBC journalist , whose story is filled with real info + imaginaion
Weapons, bases, past incidents in his novel will be real , which makes the novel realistic.

I have read 5 of his novel about a decade back, dragon strike was the first I read of his.

If you wanted a break from PDF , I recommend this ..
I used read 3 days non stop, without even attending my classes..

 

[$@rJen]

@Ankit Kumar

Is India behind its minimum operational needs ? => No.

Why minimum?
Was the two front war doctrine a mere lip service?
BTW thanks for acknowledging India is thinly stretched with minimum numbers being maintained.

As for Australia. It is not living off of South China Sea. Any one who thinks Australia (with US nuclear umbrella) & China will go to war must be birdbrained.

Do you know the bit of Far East Asia geography, as to where is SCS or how is it a part of a direct military threat to a country like Australia? Do you know how far is SCS from northern Australia in Kilometers?

View attachment 295024

you doon't know do you???? Australian Subs regularly patrol in and out of SCS and Starights of Malaca

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@Ankit Kumar

Is India behind its minimum operational needs ? => No.

Why minimum?
Was the two front war doctrine a mere lip service?
BTW thanks for acknowledging India is thinly stretched with minimum numbers being maintained.

As for Australia. It is not living off of South China Sea. Any one who thinks Australia (with US nuclear umbrella) & China will go to war must be birdbrained.

Do you know the bit of Far East Asia geography, as to where is SCS or how is it a part of a direct military threat to a country like Australia? Do you know how far is SCS from northern Australia in Kilometers?

View attachment 295024

Well till class 10th I studied in an ICSE school ( a notch higher than the normal CBSE schools in India ) and was quite good when it came to geography. And i could very well locate countries, capitals and geographical regions from Siberia to Newfoundland and Tasmania...

The question is not about going at war, the question is about the operations of Australian submarine fleet.

And I am very well aware about the range, and this is the only reason @PARIKRAMA why Soryu may not make it to Australian Submarine replacement but Type 216 can. ( The range of Soryu is deemed less ).

And Collins have regularly travelled up SCS for regular patrols.

The primary aim of Royal Australian Navy us to protect the sea lanes of trades , and that includes SCS.

If Australia is deploying its assets to SCS , it does not mean they are up for War, rather to make sure deterrence is up and war us avoided. And USA is backing them without any doubt.

The Collins do not work for primarily Australia but for NATO.

Coming to India's submarine operations , a two front war ... Navy is one arm which has the capability to ward of China and PN simultaneosly . Two front senario was primarily a land based threat.

There is a reason why we have more security men in Andaman Nicobar than civillians ( except 2 major cities ).

 

[Ind4Ever]

Brother tonnage increases due to length and diameter increase. We don't know what has taken place. To accommodate heavier missiles and more missiles. So major modifications should be carried out anyway. Due to stability involved in any naval vessels dependents upon weight sharing and blasts and empty space.

What i understand is Arihant class will have same size 3 subs... So Aridhaman and another one after that should ideally be a carbon copy of Arihant.. Some also talk about 8 silos but i still doubt that owing to limits of a submarine design and work on this submarine has been going on for some good amount of time.

Post this the subs would be the heavier variant which will be powered by 190 MW reactors perhaps with almost 12K4-K5 possibility. These should be around 2.5X-3X times tonnage of Arihant Class and will be around 15-18K submerged displacement or may be more

Possibly when these submarines comes online in around 5-8 in numbers, Arihant class will be converted into a conventional strike role with perhaps a mixture of K15s and Nirbhays in line with say a SSGN type role.

The tonnage has to increase to accommodate heavier missiles like K5 whose height should be same as K4 but diameter should increase as well as accommodate first a 3 MIRV system and later perhaps a 5 MIRV system (flower shaped) to later 6-7 warheads inclusive of decoys... Thus 10-12K tonnage may not be enough to accommodate a K5 variant with 12 in numbers in a single submarine with 3 MIRV capability or 36 N tip warheads.. Possibly it will be closer to 2.5x to 3x tonnage and will be the true SSBN with blue water capability

And at first it will take many many years before we master 6-8 MIRV . It's gonna be take lots of time. And we can accommodate 6 mirv in different setup. Like increase in length of a warhead or decrease in size of MIRV warheads... Even without affecting missiles range.

Next ARIHANT class submarines will have more length... Many presumes

 

[$@rJen]

Brother tonnage increases due to length and diameter increase. We don't know what has taken place. To accommodate heavier missiles and more missiles. So major modifications should be carried out anyway. Due to stability involved in any naval vessels dependents upon weight sharing and blasts and empty space.

Maybe Arihant was under armed due to being a first ship and first ever try !! and the following ships would be fully utilized

 

[Techy]

@PARIKRAMA @Ind4Ever @Ankit Kumar @sarjenprabhu and @others,

I do remember reading an old article about ATV Project which discussed till lengths about Arihant and its usage (Sadly unable to find the link for that now). As per that article, several Senior UPA ministers were very critical of its capacity of carrying only 4 long range missiles. They were unhappy with the low payload compared to the large costs involved in the program and thus skeptical of the program's objectives in operational terms. Specially at Chidambaram's insistence, Payload of follow-on Arihant class (including Aridaman) were doubled to 8 Long range missiles in order to get further funds for the program. Arihant was at advance stage so it retained original design of 4 missiles but for other boats silos were doubled without increasing the tonnage or doing major changes.

Just thought of sharing.. not sure about full authenticity of above statement though.

PS: The same was present on wiki page as well till sometimes back but seems, some Non-UPA member has edited the page to remove only good work done by MMS govt.

 

[$@rJen]

Specially at Chidambaram's insistence, Payload of follow-on Arihant class (including Aridaman) were doubled to 8 Long range missiles in order to get further funds for the program. Arihant was at advance stage so it retained original design of 4 missiles but for other boats silos were doubled without increasing the tonnage or doing major change

I don;t tink so they added 4 more silos in order to get more funds... i remember at those times reading that the follow on Ships would carry more weapons, Arihant was under armed due to being the first ship of the class in a first try and it was a tech demonstrator that's the reason it took long time for this Subs to get inducted and taking long time for the Launch of INS Aridhaman. all these years Arihant was tested to the core and the knowledge were used to build the Second sub which will be the real deal.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@PARIKRAMA @Ind4Ever @Ankit Kumar @sarjenprabhu and @others,

I do remember reading an old article about ATV Project which discussed till lengths about Arihant and its usage (Sadly unable to find the link for that now). As per that article, several Senior UPA ministers were very critical of its capacity of carrying only 4 long range missiles. They were unhappy with the low payload compared to the large costs involved in the program and thus skeptical of the program's objectives in operational terms. Specially at Chidambaram's insistence, Payload of follow-on Arihant class (including Aridaman) were doubled to 8 Long range missiles in order to get further funds for the program. Arihant was at advance stage so it retained original design of 4 missiles but for other boats silos were doubled without increasing the tonnage or doing major changes.

Just thought of sharing.. not sure about full authenticity of above statement though.

PS: The same was present on wiki page as well till sometimes back but seems, some Non-UPA member has edited the page to remove only good work done by MMS govt.

Converting the number of K4 silos from 4 to 8 without changing the tonnage... it seems too difficult as of now.

What I think,
The. INS Arindham will have
1. A refined and upgraded form of 83MW reactor. ( May be ~ 100 MW ).
2. Slightly bigger tonnage .
3. An improved weapons payload ( 6 K4 silos )
4. Incorporation of better combat system and sensors.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Maybe Arihant was under armed due to being a first ship and first ever try !! and the following ships would be fully utilized

Of course.
First S1 shorebase technology demonstrator

Second S2 Sea going ssbn technology demonstrator

Third S3 Aridman Powerful SSBN submarine in Asia. With more fire power and massive upgrades with inputs from the USER - Indian Navy. Bigger and powerful nuclear reactor.

Forth is also under construction. Rumours says that the hull construction is almost complete or at advanced stage. This will be similar to S3 in spec and size but with even more improved inputs added before it's completed.

Fifth S5 Am not sure about it but I don't see why we could leave our supply line empty when we need much more under water fire power. Even though these are nuclear weapons capable. In near future it can be used as SSGN but with less missiles than actual ones. Long legged nuclear subs act like Aircraft Carriers. Carries the fear factor inflicting fear down to the enemy's throat.

And it's not at all a secret. Our Next line of SSGN could be a world beater in its class. We could have at least 10-12 SSBN in future. Basically keeping in mind our global reach... Far more stretched than we can imagine today. Carrot and Sticks are too resistable when you can wipe out any Nation on this planet (Of course suicidal )

@PARIKRAMA @Ind4Ever @Ankit Kumar @sarjenprabhu and @others,

I do remember reading an old article about ATV Project which discussed till lengths about Arihant and its usage (Sadly unable to find the link for that now). As per that article, several Senior UPA ministers were very critical of its capacity of carrying only 4 long range missiles. They were unhappy with the low payload compared to the large costs involved in the program and thus skeptical of the program's objectives in operational terms. Specially at Chidambaram's insistence, Payload of follow-on Arihant class (including Aridaman) were doubled to 8 Long range missiles in order to get further funds for the program. Arihant was at advance stage so it retained original design of 4 missiles but for other boats silos were doubled without increasing the tonnage or doing major changes.

Just thought of sharing.. not sure about full authenticity of above statement though.

PS: The same was present on wiki page as well till sometimes back but seems, some Non-UPA member has edited the page to remove only good work done by MMS govt.

Arihant program always been in secrecy. From the start till now. And it's true firepower increased to the maximum limit of the designs. Saying that we should keep in our mind that these are nuclear weapons capable submarines. Once we reach this point the other two will also be sending messenger of hell. 3 submarines planned at a time. Not one. At the time we started this program our technology resources were very low. We should be very proud that our scientists pulled such a great feet in every aspect.

Arihant is a gate way. Same like our Vikrant. Next time we will do it in much bigger sale

Converting the number of K4 silos from 4 to 8 without changing the tonnage... it seems too difficult as of now.

What I think,
The. INS Arindham will have
1. A refined and upgraded form of 83MW reactor. ( May be ~ 100 MW ).
2. Slightly bigger tonnage .
3. An improved weapons payload ( 6 K4 silos )
4. Incorporation of better combat system and sensors.

True... Nuclear reactor could be more than 120. And it's not 6 silos but 8. And yes with better sensors available today at this point