India's ASTRA BVRAAM Successfully Testfired From IAF Flanker

[Indo-guy]

How can I just forget the NPO engines, did the Martians give us the engine or do you think the Americans were kind enough to offer one up, that too from the 90s batch of tomahawks given the parameters.

Unless Mr. Chander wants to test the Nirbhay to a fraction of its range for validation purposes he cannot use the engines on offer. There is a VERY simple way to settle this decisively, wait for the next test, check out the NOTAM advisory released and deduce the range, if its fits the 800 to 1200 km parameter then either the engine is ours or its American OR better yet the Russians have made a BRAND NEW engine for us.

You cannot be "spared" from arguments pertaining to technical parameters officially released by the OEMs involved or allegedly involved, given that they dictate what the product can or CANNOT do.

As part of deal as we did with cryogenic engines ...India may have purchased turbofan engine off the shelf .


You are deliberately trying to make the discussion complex by dragging technical details .

All I am asking is that you back up your claim that Nirbhay is using indigenous engine .

rather than doing vacuous job of disproving how enlisted NPO engine are not good enough for nirbhay .

First off all I never claimed that Nirbhay is using NPO engine .

and second thing - you are supposed to prove which indigenous engine is powering Nirbhay .

does it have name ? does the agency that made this engine has name ?

and what is the proof for your claim that the said engine is being used for Nirbhay ...


I know you have no answer to these questions that's why you are running in circles ....


You may try to intellectualize your arguments by lacing your assertions with heavy technicalities ...but I can see through your attempts to use side arguments and corollaries to prop up your main contention - for which you seem to have no proof what so ever .

 

[Dillinger]

@Indo-guy since neither of us can agree with the other, here is my proposal, we wait for the test and check out the NOTAM details, upon which I will provide detailed and calculated figures for the range parameters of every possible engine you shortlist as the foreign engine being used, you can then compare for yourself.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Here is pic from Aero India 2013, which claims Astra to have off bore sight capability, so its official.

@GR!FF!N
I hope this resolves ur query.

@Omega007

looks like you're wrong.by the way, +/- 45 degree???thats quite good for a BVR missile,right???way better than even WVR missiles like AIM-9M Sidewinder, R-60 Aphid and Magic-II.

 

[Dillinger]

As part of deal as we did with cryogenic engines ...India may have purchased turbofan engine off the shelf .


You are deliberately trying to make the discussion complex by dragging technical details .

All I am asking is that you back up your claim that Nirbhay is using indigenous engine .

rather than doing vacuous job of disproving how enlisted NPO engine are not good enough for nirbhay .

First off all I never claimed that Nirbhay is using NPO engine .

and second thing - you are supposed to prove which indigenous engine is powering Nirbhay .

does it have name ? does the agency that made this engine has name ?

and what is the proof for your claim that the said engine is being used for Nirbhay ...


I know you have no answer to these questions that's why you are running in circles ....


You may try to intellectualize your arguments by lacing your assertions with heavy technicalities ...but I can see through your attempts to use side arguments and corollaries to prop up your main contention - for which you seem to have no proof what so ever .

Discussion can't just become complex when relevant technical details are brought in.

Is it my fault that these technical details are perceived to be too esoteric. Why should the exchange be dumbed down?

They are relevant details to the performance of a micro-turbofan. If you doubt that then you can simply ask other members like @sandy_3126 as to exactly how the SFC is relevant, he isn't an engine expert but being informed he can give you a holistic view.

 

[MilSpec]

whats going on here?

 

[Indo-guy]

@Indo-guy since neither of us can agree with the other, here is my proposal, we wait for the test and check out the NOTAM details, upon which I will provide detailed and calculated figures for the range parameters of every possible engine you shortlist as the foreign engine being used, you can then compare for yourself.

It's not the question of agreeing .

I told you already - if you have valid proof I will accept it .

In absence of any direct proof - I will take word of Director of DRDO - Dr Avinash Chander as against word of your mouth .

Till you prove the contrary - based on self volunteered statement made in an interview Geopolitics - march 2012

I take it that so far Nirbhay is powered by imported engine and not an indigenous engine as you repeatedly claimed but failed to provide proof thereof .

 

[MilSpec]

are we still talking about Astra, or this is about Kaveri now? @Indo-guy masla kya hai?

 

[Dillinger]

whats going on here?

Mr. Chnader states that the Nirbhay engine is a foreign engine.

I check all engines on offer, specifically from NPO, SFC figures just not near enough for prescribed range of missile (I account for missile weight and possible fuel capacity and other factors). I check GTRE release on their micro turbofan, SFC figure and thrust figure found matching. So I OPENLY doubt Mr. Chander's words- adding to the plethora of statements from him which have eventually come to naught- with all due respect to him.

 

[Indo-guy]

whats going on here?

@Dillinger is using relevance of SFC to microturbofan to prove me that Nirbhay is powered by indigenous engine !!!

while Dr Avinash Chander had volunteered in an interview that Nirbhay is using an imported turbofan ...

 

[he-man]

whats going on here?

a fight in which i played no role,,,,fortunately and after a long time

 

[Dillinger]

It's not the question of agreeing .

I told you already - if you have valid proof I will accept it .

In absence of any direct proof - I will take word of Director of DRDO - Dr Avinash Chander as against word of your mouth .

Till you prove the contrary - based on self volunteered statement made in an interview Geopolitics - march 2012

I take it that so far Nirbhay is powered by imported engine and not an indigenous engine as you repeatedly claimed but failed to provide proof thereof .

You don't seem to be getting the point, I AM NOT BUYING WHAT MR. CHANDER IS STATING BECAUSE THE PARAMETERS OF THE FOREIGN ENGINES ON OFFER DO NOT MATCH.

Ergo my suggestion to take a look at the NOTAM.

 

[SrNair]

Article mentioned about Hollywood film Behind the Enemy lines .Thats what I am talking about.

Come on sree.

A to A missile will be used in Air to air combat. From where does the enemy line come in fray?

I am talking about an hollywood film.

 

[Indo-guy]

Mr. Chnader states that the Nirbhay engine is a foreign engine.

I check all engines on offer, specifically from NPO, SFC figures just not near enough for prescribed range of missile. I check GTRE release on their micro turbofan, SFC figure and thrust figure found matching. So I OPENLY doubt Mr. Chander's words- adding to the plethora of statements from him which have eventually come to naught- with all due respect to him.

Just because GTRE micro turbofan , SFC figure , thrust figure are matching does not mean it is powering Nirbhay yet .

I already said that GTRE may have initiated parallel programme to develop indegenious engine to replace imported turbofan engines in future ....

This no way disproves the statement of Dr Avinash Chander that Nirbhay is using imported turbofan .

do you understand the difference ???

 

[he-man]

are we still talking about Astra, or this is about Kaveri now? @Indo-guy masla kya hai?

turbofan of nirbhay yaar.
is that indigenous or procured from npo saturn??

 

[MilSpec]

Mr. Chnader states that the Nirbhay engine is a foreign engine.

I check all engines on offer, specifically from NPO, SFC figures just not near enough for prescribed range of missile. I check GTRE release on their micro turbofan, SFC figure and thrust figure found matching. So I OPENLY doubt Mr. Chander's words- adding to the plethora of statements from him which have eventually come to naught- with all due respect to him.

Turobofan's usually are rated for peak power at a certain rpm, the engine used in Nirbhay is a derivative by NPO saturn/raduga okb with lower fuel curve, the challenge was to change the suction port manifold to increase volumetric efficiency of the system, with a smaller combustion chamber for the Nirbhay. This engine I suspect was re-engineered russian engine. So I guess both of you are partly correct.