India's ASTRA BVRAAM Successfully Testfired From IAF Flanker

[Indo-guy]

You don't seem to be getting the point, I AM NOT BUYING WHAT MR. CHANDER IS STATING BECAUSE THE PARAMETERS OF THE FOREIGN ENGINES ON OFFER DO NOT MATCH.

Ergo my suggestion to take a look at the NOTAM.

Just because the parameters of the foreign engines on offer do not match ....does not mean you have access to all the information about all the engines that the agency could have supplied to India .

this is likely to be a secret deal .

how would you know something which has happened under veil of secrecy ???

 

[Dillinger]

Just because GTRE micro turbofan , SFC figure , thrust figure are matching does not mean it is powering Nirbhay yet .

I already said that GTRE may have initiated parallel programme to develop indegenious engine to replace imported turbofan engines in future ....

This no way disproves the statement of Dr Avinash Chander that Nirbhay is using imported turbofan .

do you understand the difference ???

I understand the difference quite well AND I AM telling you to wait for the NOTAM on the next test, if it flies to a range anywhere between 800-1200km then no existing engine on offer can power it. If the range is significantly lower then you're right, the Nirbhay will then be using foreign engines for test and validation but will still need to switch over for achieving prescribed range or the Russians will have to give us a new engine.

 

[MilSpec]

Nirbhay will eventually have a Indigenous engine, till then enjoy the success of Astra 1,

 

[Indo-guy]

turbofan of nirbhay yaar.
is that indigenous or procured from npo saturn??

Mr Chander has not talked about NPO Saturn .

He just said imported engine .

do not add another element to already complex argument .

are you sure that it's NPO Saturn .

If yes what is your proof ? any links ???

 

[MilSpec]

turbofan of nirbhay yaar.
is that indigenous or procured from npo saturn??

It's russki origin with Indian Jugaad

 

[Dillinger]

Turobofan's usually are rated for peak power at a certain rpm, the engine used in Nirbhay is a derivative by NPO saturn/raduga okb with lower fuel curve, the challenge was to change the suction port manifold to increase volumetric efficiency of the system, with a smaller combustion chamber for the Nirbhay. This engine I suspect was re-engineered russian engine. So I guess both of you are partly correct.

All those changes, specially altering the dimensions of the combustion chamber and SFC would completely change the thermodynamic and thermal efficiency parameters, we'd have a new engine at hand anyway. @Indo-guy would then be right if he states that we were sitting about with the Russians giving us a clean sheet design.

 

[Indo-guy]

Nirbhay will eventually have a Indigenous engine, till then enjoy the success of Astra 1,

That's what I have been saying ...Nirbhay may have indigenous engine eventually . GTRE may be working in that direction .

but that does not disprove statement of Dr Avinash Chander in anyway that Nirbhay is being powered by imported turbofan .

 

[Dillinger]

It's russki origin with Indian Jugaad

Not to mention everything from thermal loads to even production tooling would end up changing.

That's what I have been saying ...Nirbhay may have indigenous engine eventually . GTRE may be working in that direction .

but that does not disprove statement of Dr Avinash Chander in anyway that Nirbhay is being powered by imported turbofan .

So then it should not be an issue to wait for the NOTAM, unless this very test ends up discarding the foreign engine.

As for referring to NPO, NPO is the only OEM possibly involved even if you are right.

 

[MilSpec]

That's what I have been saying ...Nirbhay may have indigenous engine eventually . GTRE may be working in that direction .

but that does not disprove statement of Dr Avinash Chander in anyway that Nirbhay is being powered by imported turbofan .

Import doesn't necessarily mean off the shelf. this engine even if imported was heavily re-engineered towards it's end application.

 

[Indo-guy]

Not to mention everything from thermal loads to even production tooling would end up changing.



So then it should not be an issue to wait for the NOTAM, unless this very test ends up discarding the foreign engine.

As for referring to NPO, NPO is the only OEM possibly involved even if you are right.

Successful test of Nirbhay to its full range of 1000 km will not rule out in any way the fact that it's powered by imported engine .

 

[he-man]

I understand the difference quite well AND I AM telling you to wait for the NOTAM on the next test, if it flies to a range anywhere between 800-1200km then no existing engine on offer can power it. If the range is significantly lower then you're right, the Nirbhay will then be using foreign engines for test and validation but will still need to switch over for achieving prescribed range or the Russians will have to give us a new engine.

what about

R95-300(ukranian)

450 kgf Russian-made TRDD-50A engine??

Mr Chander has not talked about NPO Saturn .

He just said imported engine .

do not add another element to already complex argument .

are you sure that it's NPO Saturn .

If yes what is your proof ? any links ???

bhai i have no idea whtsoever,,,,but indigenous looks difficult as chander would have definitely boasted about it.

any sort of engine development is a great achievement and drdo never misses to boast

 

[Indo-guy]

Import doesn't necessarily mean off the shelf. this engine even if imported was heavily re-engineered towards it's end application.

We saw how initial GSLV tests used Russian cryogenic engines ..and how we subsequently transitioned to indigenous cryogenic engines .

But here people are saying that laghushakti or similar engine is powering Nirbhay missile ....

I am just asking for source or proof .

 

[MilSpec]

Not to mention everything from thermal loads to even production tooling would end up changing.

Itti lambi challang, it's not in production, the tooling won't be set up at this stage... and I doubt anything mammoth is needed for this.

Now for the operating map, of the engine, usually a based on given i/p aaa system balance point software is made to simulate the loading conditions, so drdo would have to change tweak that.

 

[Dillinger]

what about

R95-300(ukranian)

450 kgf Russian-made TRDD-50A engine??

That could work but then it has no derivatives open for us to tear apart and re-engineer.

I am willing to accept @sandy_3126's view on this, IF we opened one up and went as far as changing the whole basic parameters of the engine then yes a Russian engine with an altered SFC (due to change in the SRF fuel curve) can power the engine. In which case India would have just reverse engineered or altered its first engine, that or the Russians allowed us to. If @Indo-guy asserts that the above is the case then upon verification with the next NOTAM he would be correct.

But Sandy will have to admit, we'd be sitting on an engine with quite altered specific parameters.

We saw how initial GSLV tests used Russian cryogenic engines ..and how we subsequently transitioned to indigenous cryogenic engines .

But here people are saying that laghushakti or similar engine is powering Nirbhay missile ....

I am just asking for source or proof .

No one's stated that laghu shakti was the engine in question, but that given its SFC and thrust it would be similar to the engine on the Nirbhay. Refer to post to He-man.

 

[Indo-guy]

what about

R95-300(ukranian)

450 kgf Russian-made TRDD-50A engine??



bhai i have no idea whtsoever,,,,but indigenous looks difficult as chander would have definitely boasted about it.

any sort of engine development is a great achievement and drdo never misses to boast

Excatly ! and @Dillinger is claiming that GTRE handed over turbofan engine ...the same year when he gave that interview claiming that there is no Turbofan engine under development .

Imagine DRDO missing opportunity to boast indigenous engine and rather make humiliating admission that we are using imported engine for Nirbhay missile .