Posting in full for NEO again (hugs neo hes my new boy friend)
Interesting, I wish Joey was here to debate the smuggled parts. I believe the LCA microprocessor was claimed to be a homegrown design
I'm ready to debate those products are not smuggled, it is simply a thing Cirrus messed up or US screwed us again.
Let me explain I think i have told here and in different forums million times and you get to know about reports from Acig that LCA doesnt uses home grown processor.
It uses COTS products, the Radar MMR uses power PC , now we all know Power PC is designed by APPLE and is a US company isnt it? , but those processrs are so abudant in market you dont have to worry about it.
Similarly this i960 processor is a old fart, used in printers of 90's.
Some doubts to be cleared;
1> VSCC doesnt designs missiles and is entirely different entity than DRDO.
2> Those processors was meant for NPOL , Naval oceanographic and lab; if ADA used it and Cirrus was to smuggle it why would they show NPOL as end user?
The MMR no longer relies on i960 processors. The separate signal & data processor with the i960 plus ASIC dependent signal processor has been replaced with a combined SDP with regular Sharc and blackfin ones. The LCA uses i960 processors for the DFCC (Digital flight control computer), ie the Quad FBW dabba.
Issue might arise for SHARC processor as well but I hope it is legally imported and they cannot stop it as it is developed in India.
This paragraph is coming from someone who was in the design team of Sharc and Blackfin,
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The Sharc processors are completely designed and tested in India, end-to-end. The only place where a gora comes into the picture is during the financing approvals (I work in the sharc design team). Manufacturing is outsourced to a Taiwan company since there are no fabs here. But I am confident our management will seriously consider manufacturing the chips here once the likes of Semindia starts operations and comes up to the competitive levels.
Most of the Blackfin work is also done here, only the silicon testing is done
in the US.
A recent media coverage about the sharc processor.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/07/23/stories/2006072301691100.htm
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Designing a DSP is abc for indian engineers but problem is with its numbers and economic feasibility to do so. As you dont use P4s or Athlons but embedded low powered microcontrollers generally between 33MHz to 100MHz in speed normally i486 or Motorola 68XXX architectures or RISC's like ARM/MIPS/AMD 29000/PowerPC[We use power pc chips a lot]. These usually don't produce too much heat.the chips are encased in ceramic DIPs with gold plating on top to conduct heat but that was back at a time when chips are built with big micron sizes.With gradual reduction in micron sizes power use is extremely small and so is heat generation. Mission computers in the F-16 MLU for example uses the R3000 chips which has a better known application aka the
cpu of the original playstation.
These COTs products are rampantly used by China as well.
The defence chip production in IndiA is handled by SCIL
SCL upgradation project soon
BANGALORE: Upgradation work on the erstwhile public sector enterprise Semiconductor Complex (SCL) could finally start in the next two months. A decision on the winning bid for the global tender to undertake the upgradation of India’s first semiconductor fab is expected in next two-three weeks.
Consortiums led by IBM and M&W Zander, Atmel & Nano Tech Silicon India and UK-based Kember Associates are in the race for the Rs 500 crore project. According to sources, initial formalities with regards to the final winner is expected in the next two-three weeks.
The upgradation should begin in about two months and is scheduled to be completed in 18 months from that date, they added. The loss-making PSU which came under the Department of Electronics had been transferred to the Department of Space (DoS) in March 2005 and global bids were invited by DoS in September 2006 for the project.
According to officials, DoS and ISRO are planning to rejuvenate SCL by converting its current 0.8 micron capability (which is old technology) to 0.25 micron or 0.35 micron based capability.
The focus will be on research into newer technology as well as making chips for its own needs and for high reliability activities of the country. Semiconductor chips that go into electronic components form about 25-30% of a satellite and about 10% of a launch vehicle. Currently many such components are imported.
ISRO chief Madhavan Nambiar has been quoted as saying, ``these are available commercially but we feel that in the long run, we should have our own technology.’’
SCL was set up in Chandigarh in 1983, India’s first tryst with fabs. Its objective was to design, develop and manufacture VLSIs and VLSI based systems and sub systems and R&D.
The current facility is capable of processing wafers in 0.8 micron technology. The fab is upgradable to 0.6 micron technological capability and has a 100,000 wafers per annum processing capacity.
Some more data if your interested;
http://www.iisc.ernet.in/insa/ch31.pdf
http://www.electronicsforu.com/EFYLinux/efyhome/cover/March2006/Anupama-1.pdf
From first link:
A landmark toward self-reliance in microprocessor technology has been achieved through development of ANUCO, a floating-point coprocessor and a 32-bit RISC processor ANUPAMA. Its processing speed is being further enhanced from 33 MHz to 350 MHz.
A facility has been created to lead to fabrication of Gallium Arsenide wafers and Monolithic Microwave Integrated Circuits (MMICs) in 1-18 GHz range. Under a co-operative venture with other S&T Departments and Industry, DRDO has contributed in setting up a silicon foundry which
has the potential of making the country independent of foreign sources in respect of most of the VLSI requirements
BANGALORE, FEB 22: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will be setting up two foundries to assemble advanced materials denied to the country by foreign powers, according to scientific advisor to the defence minister, A P J Abdul Kalam.
Speaking at a function at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) here last night, Kalam disclosed that one foundry would be to fabricate gallium arsenide wafers, while the other would produce VLSI microelectronics.
Stating that every denial was an opportunity for India to develop indigenous technology, Kalam recounted that he had toured the United States in 1986, along with the then advisor to the defence minister, V S Arunachalam, in search for a supercomputer to design missiles for the country. ``But the journey was in vain,'' he said.
This denial made the country develop its own supercomputers and the current speed achieved by the DRDO machine `Pace' was eight gigaflops, he said, pointing out that it would reach 30 gigaflops by the yearend.
Referring to the recent American regulation regarding export of supercomputers to some countries like India, he said that India didn't need to import two gigaflop systems (the limit fixed by the regulation), when eight gigaflop machines were being developed indigenously.
Besides, for defence applications, the country had developed a system called `Advanced Numerical Processor for Airborne and Missile Applications' (ANUPAMA), he said, adding, ``My dream is that we should give supercomputers to all the countries who are denied these machines by the west.''
Here is a part of Anurag,
http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03467nz4.jpg
This is US policy , but fear not as LCA Tejas one scientist says;
"You deny us technology We make it better than you have" , which has been proved number of times; I can show you articles of his speech on how flight performance is actually much better than when we were using US design VISTA.
The main article is this;
Posted 04/09/07 16:09
Export Charges May Affect Indian-U.S. Ties
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI
Indian government officials are wondering how the U.S. Justice Department’s April 2 indictment of four Indian nationals on charges of violating technology export-control laws will affect defense ties and the nuclear cooperation accord between Washington and New Delhi.
Singapore-based Cirrus Electronics, which has a U.S. office in Simpsonville, S.C., and four of its employees were indicted on charges of illegally selling computer chips for missile guidance systems and microprocessors for the Indian Air Force’s Light Combat Aircraft to India.
The alleged sales violated the Arms Export Control Act and International Traffic in Arms Regulations.
The four Cirrus employees — Prathasarathy Sudarshan, Mythili Gopal, both of Simpsonville; Akn Prasad of Bangalore; and Sampath Sundar of Singapore — were arrested by the FBI March 30. If convicted, they face prison sentences ranging from five to 10 years.
“This is very serious,” said a U.S. Justice Department spokesman.
Missile guidance technology was being sold to the Indian government entities that operate India’s aerospace and nuclear weapons programs. There is evidence that the Indian government was helping falsify information to enable the exports, and an Indian Embassy official in Washington is an unnamed co-conspirator, the spokesman said.
“This case clearly demonstrates that the United States will aggressively investigate and prosecute those who illegally procure and export components for space launch vehicle and ballistic missile programs,” said Darryl Jackson, assistant secretary for export enforcement at the U.S. Commerce Department. The sales allegedly took place between 2002 and 2006.
The incident is an embarrass-ment to the Indian government, said a senior Indian Ministry of Foreign Affairs official. However, ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna said they are looking into the matter and have no comment.
“Yes, these allegations will have an impact on transfer of futuristic technology to India from the United States,” said Rahul Bhonsle, a defense analyst here and a retired Indian Army brigadier. “Hopefully, it will not change the overall approach of U.S. authorities of placing India in a more benign category of sanctions.”
But Cherian Samuel, senior fellow at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analysis here, downplayed the significance.
“Industrial espionage and high-tech theft are par for the course, even between the U.S. and its closest allies, such as Israel,” Samuel said. “There is a possibility that the timing of the announcement of this indictment is a part of the carrot-and-stick approach favored by the U.S. government in its foreign policy dealings, and a gentle reminder that it would serve India well to get the nuclear deal through so that it could get such technologies without too much trouble. “
Brahma Chellaney, a defense analyst at the Centre for Policy Research here, was critical of Washington’s attempts to control the flow of technologies.
“The U.S. still maintains greater technology controls against the world’s largest democracy than against communist China,” Chellaney said. “The latest case shows that instead of loosening high-tech controls against India, U.S. authorities are doing the reverse — cracking down even on exports to India that do not have military applications, such as Static Random Access Memory, capacitors, semiconductors, rectifiers and resistors. Such exports are permitted by the U.S. to Israel. So why not to ‘strategic partner’ India?”
Sudarshan, founder of Singapore-based Cirrus Electronics, and Mythili Gopal, a top executive, allegedly exported to India heat-resistant computer chips that can be used in missiles, micro-processors and semiconductors.
These items were allegedly to be used by the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, which does civilian space work; the Aeronautics Development Establishment, which builds the Light Combat Aircraft; and defense contractor Bharat Dynamics, said the indictment.
But the question that begs to be answered is, why were these technologies allegedly stolen when they could have been acquired legally from the United States?
“Probably, the Indian establishments just took the easy way out or did not want to go through the delays envisaged in procedures for such equipment,” said Bhonsle.
The main point is this;
There is a possibility that the timing of the announcement of this indictment is a part of the carrot-and-stick approach favored by the U.S. government in its foreign policy dealings, and a gentle reminder that it would serve India well to get the nuclear deal through so that it could get such technologies without too much trouble.
There is a backdoor CTBT clause in the nuke deal which the whole scientific community is against and is negotiating with each sentence with US.
Recently Pranab mukherjee suffered a suspicious accident as well, the only nationalistic congress leader the foreign secretary.
anyways this is all good, recently this year SEMINDIA has announced of having a wafer factory at the cost of 5bn dollars.
With 125 companies doing chip designing in India there is a need to feed govt sector as well.
We have highly capable VLSI workforce, the 1tflop intel chip to Apple ipods chip all done here.
The SCIL is being upgraded as well.
The best thing that made this happened is the immediate switch to eurocopter over bell
I want US to put more and more sanctions, We dont lack anything other than the need of governments will to fund and fund.
