Indian strategic thinking and Pakistan.

[Joe Shearer]

I am not at all ideologically or pathologically inimical towards India and her citizens. It is the hatred that the Indians have for Pakistan which is amply clear when one reads the threads here and which surprises me. I have seen very few Indian posters here who have expressed their desire for peaceful co-existence with Pakistan. Anything and everything that happens wrong in India is blamed on Pakistan. There have been many many incidents where Indian intelligence agencies have have clearly attempted to blame Pakistan in order to malign Pakistan. In a recent incident some honest down to earth Pakistani business people were blamed for spreading terror in India. When these people were interviewed by Pakistani media, the intent of official Indian agencies to deliberately malign Pakistan was as visible as daylight. Did the official Indian agency did it deliberately and with the know-tow and approval of Indian government to further the peace process - bull crap.

These agencies are laden with Hindu fundamentalists and hardliners. They don’t want to induct Muslims, Sikhs Christians and other minorities, even the poor shoodars, in these agencies because they don’t trust even their own minorities. It is the creation of Hindu Rashtra that they are after. After the latest incident in which the official Indians government establishments deliberately blamed some innocent Pakistani business people with charges of spreading terror in India, what do we think of Indian PM or their Foreign Minister and other leaders statements laden with peace and friendship. Baghal mein churi – mun mein raam ram.

From reading about the Indian strategy here, it is clear that India is not going to reduce or redeploy her armed forces away from Pakistani borders, irrespective of the peace that may happen, if at all. Their armed forces would remain Pakistan centric in perpetuity because of their strategy. So how can we seek peace with these people while being threatened by the so-called third largest army of the world.

Yes Pakistan does have lot many problems. We are caught in the eye of the storm created by Americans. Yes we have poor leadership, yes we have poor economy – but we have faced this before also and we shall come out on top.

Therefore, I suggest that instead of attempting to improve our relations with Pakistan hating Indians, we should, in conjunction with our natural allies the Chinese keep the Indians boxed in without even allowing them passageway to central asia and any trade facility, which they are trying to gain since long. Let them go through Iran, whom they have already sold in lieu of American good will. Let them provide cheap and slave labour for manufacturing American and Western goods and think that they would become rich by growing a bit more than the 3-4 % of Hindu growth rate. They’ll suffer at the hands of their own so-called friends and their own security forces and the naxals and other secessionist movements will take care of them in not so distant a future. So, relax gentlemen and let them phase out in their self created ignominy.

The premises are utter nonsense. The resultant strategy proposed is conversion of necessity to virtue.

The core reason for hostility between India and Pakistan is Pakistan's reluctance to take no for an answer on Kashmir. From that core reason stem the subsidiary reasons, a bloated military which has distorted the natural growth of the country, and a fixated reliance on the apparatus of terror to force concessions from India, as well as to reduce the difference in military strength by the use of intermittent terrorism to tie up Indian forces.

There is in India a strong and determined peace lobby. There is also a section that wishes only bad things. A third section, very small in number, believes that it might be best to plan and execute hostilities to neutralize these threats to peaceful life in India in a planned manner rather than have trouble thrust upon us, as it has so frequently. Finally, the vast bulk of the country, perhaps about 90%, is indifferent, except when yet another ghastly incident occurs.

It is a moot point which section will prevail. Whichever does, and whatever the strategy adopted, it is highly unlikely to affect the even tenor of life in our country immediately. Bombastic words about an alliance of isolates notwithstanding.

 

[Ticker]

The premises are utter nonsense. The resultant strategy proposed is conversion of necessity to virtue.

The core reason for hostility between India and Pakistan is Pakistan's reluctance to take no for an answer on Kashmir. From that core reason stem the subsidiary reasons, a bloated military which has distorted the natural growth of the country, and a fixated reliance on the apparatus of terror to force concessions from India, as well as to reduce the difference in military strength by the use of intermittent terrorism to tie up Indian forces.

There is in India a strong and determined peace lobby. There is also a section that wishes only bad things. A third section, very small in number, believes that it might be best to plan and execute hostilities to neutralize these threats to peaceful life in India in a planned manner rather than have trouble thrust upon us, as it has so frequently. Finally, the vast bulk of the country, perhaps about 90%, is indifferent, except when yet another ghastly incident occurs.

It is a moot point which section will prevail. Whichever does, and whatever the strategy adopted, it is highly unlikely to affect the even tenor of life in our country immediately. Bombastic words about an alliance of isolates notwithstanding.

Sir, the necessity is always converted to virtue like invention is always the mother of necessity.

Isn’t Indian strategy based on this. You yourself have stated earlier that because Pakistan is weaker, it needs to be tackled first. The necessity of tackling the weak first – what is the difference here.

The Indians are taking advantage of a condition on Pakistan’s western front. If we do the same it is bad and tantamount to terrorism and when you do it, it is payback time. When you did the same in 1971, it was cloaked in the farce of freedom for Bangladeshis. When we do it in Kashmir, it is terrorism. Ironic isn’t it !

If Indians had made earnest efforts to support Afghanistan in its rebuilding after the war, probably you guys would’ve emerged victorious because of the virtuosity of effort. Now that you have started paying us back, why shouldn’t we pay it back with biyaj. This is how, India would realize the futility of countering so-called terror by generating terror.

The problem of Kashmir was not created by Pakistan Army. It was created by India by invading Kashmir like it invaded Hyderabad, Junagarh, Manavadar, Sikkim etc. Whenever the army has been in power in Pakistan, the economy has always been much much better than what our politicians could manage. I am not in favour of army coming to power. By stating such crap against Pakistan Army, you can not take advantage of dividing us through the so-called people to people contacts. After having failed to subdue Pakistan through other means, people to people contact was invented as the mother of necessity by the Indians to create a divide between the Army, the politicians and the people. Sir, your strategy has failed.

Percentages of people having different creeds of thinking does not matter for the governments who make strategies. The Americans and Brits were overwhelmingly against the recent wars fought by them, yet Bush and the Brit PM, they both got re-elected as well. At the end of the day, we see you people carrying out acts of terror in Pakistan. We can pay you back, because as you concur, we should strike the weaknesses first.

Alliances are always paying. It pays for you when Americans push Pakistan. It’ll pay us in gold when we help China to keep you strategically surrounded from three sides. It is prudent at times to provide the enemy a way out. We are doing the same to let you go to the sea, to drown you in the cost and maintenance of raising and maintaining a blue water navy. May you succeed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would take these effusions more seriously if they were based on greater knowledge.

Sir, the necessity is always converted to virtue like invention is always the mother of necessity.

Isn’t Indian strategy is based on this. You yourself have stated earlier that because Pakistan is weaker, it needs to be tackled first. The necessity of tackling the weak first – what is the difference here.

Simply, the difference between waging a campaign of terror, and waging a war declared and fought under the regulations governing war, not one where prisoners are returned dead, with their eyes gouged out. The treatment given to members of our Ambushed patrol, and one of our pilots, was infamous.

The Indians are taking advantage of a condition on Pakistan’s western front. If we do the same it is bad and tantamount to terrorism and when you do it, it is payback time. When you did the same in 1971, it was cloaked in the farce of freedom for Bangladeshis. When we do it in Kashmir, it is terrorism. Ironic isn’t it !

If every brain-dead observer imagines that a discussion on a theoretical plane represents reality on the ground, your country needs help.

If Indians had made earnest efforts to support Afghanistan in its rebuilding after the war, probably you guys would’ve emerged victorious because of the virtuosity of effort.

We have invested heavily in building infrastructure in Afghanistan. Our programmes and civilians working on them, have been attacked by armed gangs identified by both the Afghan government and the allied troops as Pakistan-sponsored terrorists from the Haqqani network. We are not in there to emerge victorious, but to help a nation in distress. Your choice of words handsomely displays your intentions.

Now that you have started paying us back, why shouldn’t we pay it back with biyaj. This is how, India would realize the futility of countering so-called terror by generating terror.

What are you referring to? This discussion? This was a consideration of what could be done, not what was being done.

The problem of Kashmir was not created by Pakistan Army. It was created by India by invading Kashmir like it invaded Hyderabad, Junagarh, Manavadar, Sikkim etc.

Simply because your army could not be used, and you used gangsters who failed to grab the state due to their stopping to murder, rape and plunder? Regarding Junagadh, you should ascertain the facts first. Regarding Hyderabad, the Nawab of Chhatri resigned as Prime Minister when he was attacked by Razakars. That was the level to which communal terrorism had descended. While I should expect you to know the facts before commenting, that is evidently a luxury which we will not enjoy. So get it clear, please: HYDERABAD HAD NOT JOINED PAKISTAN AFTER INDEPENDENCE. it is amazing how people labour under delusions. Regarding Sikkim, the statelet was a protectorate. It was annexed because of the conspiracy by the Gyalmo against India.

Do try and get your facts clear first, before commenting.

Whenever the army has been in power in Pakistan, the economy has always been much much better than what our politicians could manage. I am not in favour of army coming to power. By stating such crap against Pakistan Army, you can not take advantage of dividing us through the so-called people to people contacts. After having failed to subdue Pakistan through other means, people to people contact was invented as the mother of necessity by the Indians to create a divide between the Army, the politicians and the people. Sir, your strategy has failed.

Sir, this strategy is no strategy. On the other hand, you should pull up your own citizens who point to the obstinate denial of constitutional rule as the root of all Pakistan's problems. The resistance to the Army is from your politicians, and quite rightly so. Not from Indians on PDF.

Percentages of people having different creeds of thinking does not matter for the governments who make strategies. The Americans and Brits were overwhelmingly against the wars recent fought by them, yet they both got re-elected as well. At the end of the day, we see you people carrying out acts of terror in Pakistan. We can pay you back, because as you concur, we should strike the weaknesses first.

An absurd proposition.

Your own commentators have pointed to the involvement of your own sectarian groups murdering one section of Muslims, and of all ganging up together against the persecuted Ahmadiyyas.

Look inside before looking at others.

Alliances are always paying. It pays for you when Americans push Pakistan. It’ll pay us in gold when we help China to keep you strategically surrounded from three sides. It is prudent at times to provide the enemy a way out. We are doing the same to let you go to the sea, to drown you in the cost and maintenance of raising and maintaining a blue water navy. May you succeed.

That blue water navy caused several flag ranked officers to take sick leave when there was a thought of hostilities in 1999. You might like to remind your loudmouthed friends of this when they make their brags next.

 

[Ticker]

I would take these effusions more seriously if they were based on greater knowledge.



Simply, the difference between waging a campaign of terror, and waging a war declared and fought under the regulations governing war, not one where prisoners are returned dead, with their eyes gouged out. The treatment given to members of our Ambushed patrol, and one of our pilots, was infamous.

The right to freedom and taking up arms to fight for freedom is enshrined in the charter of United Nations. You can conveniently call a freedom movement, terrorism because people in India want to secede – nice eh.

When it happens in Tibet against Chinese, it is freedom movement
When Kashmiris fight for their freedom, it is terrorism
When it is fighting against Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, it is freedom movement
When the same Afghans fight against American occupation, it is terrorism
When East Timor fights against Indonesia, it is freedom movement
When Moros fight for liberation from Philippines, it is terrorism
When South Sudan fights against Sudanese government, it is freedom movement
When the Palestinians fight against Israeli occupation, it is terrorism
Whatever India commits acts of terror against Pakistan, it is always Kosher
India itself has over 140 secessionist and freedom fighting groups, the largest anywhere in the world. The only way it wants to hide it from the world is by accusing others of perpetrating terrorism inside India. What a crap.

Gouging of eyes and ill-treatment meted out to Indian soldiers is a crap thrown up by India and its media and has no truth in it. It is BS and you know it.

If every brain-dead observer imagines that a discussion on a theoretical plane represents reality on the ground, your country needs help.

Whenever India commits acts of terror against Pakistan, it is always Kosher. When Pakistan says that Indians are committing acts of terror inside Pakistan and even presents proofs, it becomes a discussion on imaginative theoretical plane.

We have invested heavily in building infrastructure in Afghanistan. Our programmes and civilians working on them, have been attacked by armed gangs identified by both the Afghan government and the allied troops as Pakistan-sponsored terrorists from the Haqqani network. We are not in there to emerge victorious, but to help a nation in distress. Your choice of words handsomely displays your intentions.

C@ck and Bull Stories pushed out in the media for the world to believe that India is such a great giver and does not seek anything in return. Some civilians may be working there but most are Indian Army and its intelligence people in the garb of civilians.

Hasn’t the Border Road Organization led by an Indian Brig with Indian Army engineers working in Afghanistan. The so-called Indian SF guys in a security provision garb, wearing Indian Para-military force uniforms are inside Afghanistan – what for.

Your choice of words handsomely attempts to place a false veil of innocence over your intentions.


What are you referring to? This discussion? This was a consideration of what could be done, not what was being done.

Then talk about what could be done and what could be forced on us through Indians generating terror in order to counter the so-called terror.

Simply because your army could not be used, and you used gangsters who failed to grab the state due to their stopping to murder, rape and plunder? Regarding Junagadh, you should ascertain the facts first. Regarding Hyderabad, the Nawab of Chhatri resigned as Prime Minister when he was attacked by Razakars. That was the level to which communal terrorism had descended. While I should expect you to know the facts before commenting, that is evidently a luxury which we will not enjoy. So get it clear, please: HYDERABAD HAD NOT JOINED PAKISTAN AFTER INDEPENDENCE. it is amazing how people labour under delusions. Regarding Sikkim, the statelet was a protectorate. It was annexed because of the conspiracy by the Gyalmo against India.

Do try and get your facts clear first, before commenting.

Aha, Funny argument – when the majority Kashmiri Muslims want to join Pakistan, it is the Raja who decides and whose accession letter is produced. When it is Manvadar and Junagarh’s Nawab wants to join Pakistan and publically announces his intent, the majority Hindu state is invaded because the majority did not support accession.

Sikkim is invaded in 1975 because of a conspiracy against India. The Chinese also carryout conspiracies against India and so do Pakistan, do you have the balls big enough to invade them. You guys can only inflict harm on people who are weaker – your own strategy eh.


Sir, this strategy is no strategy. On the other hand, you should pull up your own citizens who point to the obstinate denial of constitutional rule as the root of all Pakistan's problems. The resistance to the Army is from your politicians, and quite rightly so. Not from Indians on PDF.

Oh so this is not a strategy or is it that this is not what you think should be the strategy. We don’t have to seek any advise from a lot of people and an army who carryout massive oppression against their own and calls it a democratic process. We can look after ourselves and can find our own solutions. Please do not advise us on how to solve our internal problems because your way of killing your own is not acceptable here on PDF as well as in Pakistan.

An absurd proposition.

Your own commentators have pointed to the involvement of your own sectarian groups murdering one section of Muslims, and of all ganging up together against the persecuted Ahmadiyyas.

Look inside before looking at others.

Oh is it absurd now …… Yes we fight amongst ourselves and yes we have sectarian and many other problems, but we do not commit acts of state sponsored terrorism in our country like you do. Read the statement of Janat Party leader Dr Subramaniyan Swamy about Hashimpura massacre where Indian security forces took out 40-50 Muslims from their housed after separating the men from women and children, took them outside the city amd murderd them in cold blood. He openly blamed the current Home Minister Chidambaram whom he quoted as saying, we need to kill 50 of them to send a clear signal. It is a shame indeed – what else can I say. And I won’t even talk about Modi, Tehelka videos amply present the proof. What else do you want.

Ahmedis have been declared non Muslims by an elected assembly of Pakistan and I believe that they are non-Muslims. I also strongly condemn any kind of oppression against them.


That blue water navy caused several flag ranked officers to take sick leave when there was a thought of hostilities in 1999. You might like to remind your loudmouthed friends of this when they make their brags next.

oooohhhhh, so it is we who chickened out and not your army or the government who massed the whole of Indian Army against Pakistan and yet did not have the courage to attack us. Oh yes we were scared. The world’s third largest army threatening on our door step, took two months to gather on their western border, carried out months and months of reconnaissance to find a place from where to launch the offensive, readied itself after losing hundreds of lives in road accidents and mine accidents and what not, and yet only threatened and threatened and threatened. And you are doing the same thing again, threaten us with your blue water navy who did not know where to hide its aircraft carrier to avoid it being sunk.

Sir, no matter how strong you become, you will continue to remain a small set of people with small thinking, aspiring to become big. Nothing more than a make believing people you are.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

oooohhhhh, so it is we who chickened out and not your army or the government who massed the whole of Indian Army against Pakistan and yet did not have the courage to attack us. Oh yes we were scared. The world’s third largest army threatening on our door step, took two months to gather on their western border, carried out months and months of reconnaissance to find a place from where to launch the offensive, readied itself after losing hundreds of lives in road accidents and mine accidents and what not, and yet only threatened and threatened and threatened. And you are doing the same thing again, threaten us with your blue water navy who did not know where to hide its aircraft carrier to avoid it being sunk.

Sir, no matter how strong you become, you will continue to remain a small set of people with small thinking, aspiring to become big. Nothing more than a make believing people you are.

Sirjee,if you look at the history of conflicts between India and Pakistan then you would see that Pakistan from being 'The Agressor' has become Pakistan 'The Survivor'.

In short,today you are in no position to launch an attack on India.You are only limited to saving your country and in most cases the people and the Army wants to take the help of Nukes..which shows how capable you guys think your defence forces are.

India on the other hand has learnt its lessons quite well and worked hard to be in a position where the threat of Pakistan attacking and winning is long gone which couldnt be said 40-50 years ago.

Its not only courage which wins you wars.You need to have stratergy.logistics and objectives set right in order to know the purpose of war and the duration which is something we were not clear on in 2001 and like i said before India learns from her mistakes always and hence you can see the changes brough in after 2001.

Regarding thinking about making big..Atleast we can afford to do that.Are you sure you can do that sitting where you are currently?

Only those talk about peace who havent lost anyone from an attack involving a terrorist from the neighbouring country.I have lost a few friends in terrorist attack in my state of Jammu and Kashmir and hence peace is something which i am not expecting coz its the last thing which people who have the power across the border are looking for.

And i say this again..and I am really sorry to use this language but the day you will loose a loved one in a terror attack involving a Pakistani i will see who talks about peace...For Pakistanis this line would never have a meaning so dont bother replying.

 

[dragger]

I really appreciate your comments/analysis.
Keeping in view the entire build up on the eastern and NE side, would you please advise about indian army's posture towards Pakistan and China? Apparently it is not defensive. No mention has been made about IAF and its deployment and the number of air bases in support of these corps.
I totally agree that the terrain in the NE does not allow use of large formations hence relatively smaller bodies of troops might operate in different areas with eventual aim of link up.
Deterrence is deterrence upto certain extent but when maneuver is hostile it is no more deterrent alone. Of course retaliation is obvious.

 

[Nassr]

Sirjee,if you look at the history of conflicts between India and Pakistan then you would see that Pakistan from being 'The Agressor' has become Pakistan 'The Survivor'.

In short,today you are in no position to launch an attack on India.You are only limited to saving your country and in most cases the people and the Army wants to take the help of Nukes..which shows how capable you guys think your defence forces are.

India on the other hand has learnt its lessons quite well and worked hard to be in a position where the threat of Pakistan attacking and winning is long gone which couldnt be said 40-50 years ago.

Its not only courage which wins you wars.You need to have stratergy.logistics and objectives set right in order to know the purpose of war and the duration which is something we were not clear on in 2001 and like i said before India learns from her mistakes always and hence you can see the changes brough in after 2001.

Regarding thinking about making big..Atleast we can afford to do that.Are you sure you can do that sitting where you are currently?

Only those talk about peace who havent lost anyone from an attack involving a terrorist from the neighbouring country.I have lost a few friends in terrorist attack in my state of Jammu and Kashmir and hence peace is something which i am not expecting coz its the last thing which people who have the power across the border are looking for.

And i say this again..and I am really sorry to use this language but the day you will loose a loved one in a terror attack involving a Pakistani i will see who talks about peace...For Pakistanis this line would never have a meaning so dont bother replying.

Pakistan has always been a survivor. From that bright day in August 1947, when we became independent and the Indian leadership and Indian people, and the world at large thought that this small country would not survive even some months. Survive we did and are on our way to become the fifth largest nuclear power this God’s earth.

The Indians who thought that they could cut Pakistan in half through deep strikes of their strike corps’ are now readjusting to capture shallow objectives, knowing full well that they do not have capability to do what their leadership set out to do.

Instead of teaching Pakistan a lesson, now the Indians want to enhance people to people contacts and trade and are talking peace. Yes Sir, survive we did and survive we shall as a strong power, so that like 2001, when you could not launch the offensive against this country, in 2501 also you would not have heart to undertake such a venture.

You may keep on enhancing your learning the lessons as we will not allow you to undermine us at any moment in future as well.

I lost most of my family in 1947 while they were coming from their abode in India. I have lost not only friends and members of my family in wars with India and also Indian sponsored acts of terrorism, and I can still talk of peace. Not because I am afraid of war or even terror, but because I have the ability to fight a war and survive and this is the the choice that I make.

I assure you, no matter how big and powerful you become, your country or your armed forces can not scare me. Because I can pull up my chin stand tall in a free and independent society and country which I am proud of. Not because of religion, caste or creed, but because I am a Pakistani.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pakistan has always been a survivor. From that bright day in August 1947, when we became independent and the Indian leadership and Indian people, and the world at large thought that this small country would not survive even some months. Survive we did and are on our way to become the fifth largest nuclear power this God’s earth.

The Indians who thought that they could cut Pakistan in half through deep strikes of their strike corps’ are now readjusting to capture shallow objectives, knowing full well that they do not have capability to do what their leadership set out to do.

Instead of teaching Pakistan a lesson, now the Indians want to enhance people to people contacts and trade and are talking peace. Yes Sir, survive we did and survive we shall as a strong power, so that like 2001, when you could not launch the offensive against this country, in 2501 also you would not have heart to undertake such a venture.

You may keep on enhancing your learning the lessons as we will not allow you to undermine us at any moment in future as well.

I lost most of my family in 1947 while they were coming from their abode in India. I have lost not only friends and members of my family in wars with India and also Indian sponsored acts of terrorism, and I can still talk of peace. Not because I am afraid of war or even terror, but because I have the ability to fight a war and survive and this is the the choice that I make.

I assure you, no matter how big and powerful you become, your country or your armed forces can not scare me. Because I can pull up my chin stand tall in a free and independent society and country which I am proud of. Not because of religion, caste or creed, but because I am a Pakistani.

Bravo......Sir........

 

[Vinod2070]

Mate, you have been impressive. Great work!

Pakistan has always been a survivor. From that bright day in August 1947, when we became independent and the Indian leadership and Indian people, and the world at large thought that this small country would not survive even some months. Survive we did and are on our way to become the fifth largest nuclear power this God’s earth.

This is a common narrative on both sides. In fact most "experts" gave India less of a chance to survive with all its diversity and divisions than a much more "homogeneous" Pakistan.

But I would say that many times this is just nothing else but giving "dilasa" to ourselves. As if mere survival is a great feat. A good tactics that many on both sides employ as many times we have little else to be proud of.

My thought. You may disagree.

The Indians who thought that they could cut Pakistan in half through deep strikes of their strike corps’ are now readjusting to capture shallow objectives, knowing full well that they do not have capability to do what their leadership set out to do.

Instead of teaching Pakistan a lesson, now the Indians want to enhance people to people contacts and trade and are talking peace. Yes Sir, survive we did and survive we shall as a strong power, so that like 2001, when you could not launch the offensive against this country, in 2501 also you would not have heart to undertake such a venture.

I would argue that history suggests otherwise if one looks at who started all the conflicts. I won't bother with posting the videos that you have already seen of your own generals admitting this.

And yes, we "could not launch the offensive against this country" because the costs were probably calculated to be more than the benefits. In the final analysis that is what counts.

But we did call out the nuke bluff and that resulted in some changes, even if slow.

You may keep on enhancing your learning the lessons as we will not allow you to undermine us at any moment in future as well.

I lost most of my family in 1947 while they were coming from their abode in India. I have lost not only friends and members of my family in wars with India and also Indian sponsored acts of terrorism, and I can still talk of peace. Not because I am afraid of war or even terror, but because I have the ability to fight a war and survive and this is the the choice that I make.

Really sorry to know of your loss.

I assure you, no matter how big and powerful you become, your country or your armed forces can not scare me. Because I can pull up my chin stand tall in a free and independent society and country which I am proud of. Not because of religion, caste or creed, but because I am a Pakistani.

Great to know. I tend to think that India just wants a non overtly hostile Pakistan. Anything else is a bonus.

AFAIK, we have simply no designs on anything you have. Nor any interest in giving up what we have.

Live and let live. Peace.

 

[Darth Vader]

Well said Nassr no 1 wants war but thats their thinking they think that a big man can over take a small man but well its not same any more Indian showed their strgy the 10 steps lol where they will try to achive the goals lol =)) but my dear Pakistan is not Afg Nor IRaq we live for pakistan Surly we can Die for Pakistan like every family We have some issue Pakistan is our Home and in every home brothers and sister some time have a fight it dsnt mean that u jese leave them well that happens in Us or Europe Not In Pakistan now india can just stick 2 its covert operations cz it dsnt have the gutts to take Pakistan Army Till a single Pakistan is alive we will not let u take a single inch of this country and u say u army wants to use nuke yes its better option cz instead of sending a huge force to fight and for saving More Lives u can just nuke them lol Same wht U S DID in japan and it saved many life but in a Pakistan and INDIA sncr India wont be able to use its All options agnst Pakistan But Pakistan will be able to use All its Force agnst India u guys think Pakistan is just 500 600 k well my dear Pakistan armies total strength is 180 million so be ready are u sure that u r army can take that and dont forget how modern we are we still need a man behind trigger now maybe u think em in somewhere else and using big words My dear When Pakistan Will Go 2 war i will leave that Country and i will come to Pakistan and Join Pakistan Army Long Live Pakistan

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Pakistan has always been a survivor. From that bright day in August 1947, when we became independent and the Indian leadership and Indian people, and the world at large thought that this small country would not survive even some months. Survive we did and are on our way to become the fifth largest nuclear power this God’s earth.

The Indians who thought that they could cut Pakistan in half through deep strikes of their strike corps’ are now readjusting to capture shallow objectives, knowing full well that they do not have capability to do what their leadership set out to do.

Instead of teaching Pakistan a lesson, now the Indians want to enhance people to people contacts and trade and are talking peace. Yes Sir, survive we did and survive we shall as a strong power, so that like 2001, when you could not launch the offensive against this country, in 2501 also you would not have heart to undertake such a venture.

You may keep on enhancing your learning the lessons as we will not allow you to undermine us at any moment in future as well.

I lost most of my family in 1947 while they were coming from their abode in India. I have lost not only friends and members of my family in wars with India and also Indian sponsored acts of terrorism, and I can still talk of peace. Not because I am afraid of war or even terror, but because I have the ability to fight a war and survive and this is the the choice that I make.

I assure you, no matter how big and powerful you become, your country or your armed forces can not scare me. Because I can pull up my chin stand tall in a free and independent society and country which I am proud of. Not because of religion, caste or creed, but because I am a Pakistani.

Well,I was expecting a reply based on facts and you are talking from your heart.

Pakistan would have been in much better position had it not indulged in all the wrong things in the region from what it did to Bengalis in East Pakistan to Osama incident.You have yourselves to blame for everything and you call youself "The great survivor".Its like the jokes you guys say that.."In 65 we saved Pakistan"..Cmon man Pakistan was already saved had you guys not attacked Akhnoor!!


And the thing you said about Indians predicting Pakistan's failure..i dont know if its true or not but if it is..then i am sorry Sir that has become true...You have lost half of your country already..and the other half which is left is not doing that well too..Whats there to boast about besides the nukes which is saving your nation??What has your achievements been compared to India?..I mean you were talking from your heart very proudly..do kindly let me know whats there to boast about coz i am certainly missing a few points here.

Your economy is not in that great condition,Pakistanis abroad are calling themselves Indians..the world media blames you for terror acts....Would the Great father of your nation Jinnah Sahib be proud of todays Pakistan??..i guess not.


Now comming to Defence related discussions.I dont know why people have a problem with not accepting the reality.When i said IN has a huge advantge over Pakistan people didnt like it..I mean prove it if i am wrong..I can give you so many links from youtube of your own countrymen who have held respectable positions in the Armed forces saying that.You guys are just not ready to accept the truth.

All you want is some Indian saying wah wah..wah wah..

The indian Army plans for limited strikes not because it is afraid but because it doesnt trust people in charge of the N button.We feel that your nukes may fall into wrong hands,we feel if we attack..you guys may panic and use nukes...There is nothing to be proud of this i guess...It is a very unsafe situation for both countries.

You can keep on thinking what you want to but if you check the reality the gap is only increasing in every field.


Lastly,I am sorry for your loss in 47..and can you please share with us which terror incident did india indulge in that you had to loose your relatives in.You guys talk of peace when you are the biggest exporter of terrorits or whatever you call them..in my state.They are not fighting any holy war..innocents get killed every year.

Kasab was also not fighting any holy war..he killed innocents who were living in their country.So many people like him get trained in pakistan..and you talk about peace..Why dont you start from your home..Clean the mess first and then talk about peace.

 

[Ticker]

I really appreciate your comments/analysis.
Keeping in view the entire build up on the eastern and NE side, would you please advise about indian army's posture towards Pakistan and China? Apparently it is not defensive. No mention has been made about IAF and its deployment and the number of air bases in support of these corps.
I totally agree that the terrain in the NE does not allow use of large formations hence relatively smaller bodies of troops might operate in different areas with eventual aim of link up.
Deterrence is deterrence upto certain extent but when maneuver is hostile it is no more deterrent alone. Of course retaliation is obvious.

Dragger Bha JI,

naway naway aao O lagda hai

 

[dragger]

Well,I was expecting a reply based on facts and you are talking from your heart.

Pakistan would have been in much better position had it not indulged in all the wrong things in the region from what it did to Bengalis in East Pakistan to Osama incident.You have yourselves to blame for everything and you call youself "The great survivor".Its like the jokes you guys say that.."In 65 we saved Pakistan"..Cmon man Pakistan was already saved had you guys not attacked Akhnoor!!


And the thing you said about Indians predicting Pakistan's failure..i dont know if its true or not but if it is..then i am sorry Sir that has become true...You have lost half of your country already..and the other half which is left is not doing that well too..Whats there to boast about besides the nukes which is saving your nation??What has your achievements been compared to India?..I mean you were talking from your heart very proudly..do kindly let me know whats there to boast about coz i am certainly missing a few points here.

Your economy is not in that great condition,Pakistanis abroad are calling themselves Indians..the world media blames you for terror acts....Would the Great father of your nation Jinnah Sahib be proud of todays Pakistan??..i guess not.


Now comming to Defence related discussions.I dont know why people have a problem with not accepting the reality.When i said IN has a huge advantge over Pakistan people didnt like it..I mean prove it if i am wrong..I can give you so many links from youtube of your own countrymen who have held respectable positions in the Armed forces saying that.You guys are just not ready to accept the truth.

All you want is some Indian saying wah wah..wah wah..

The indian Army plans for limited strikes not because it is afraid but because it doesnt trust people in charge of the N button.We feel that your nukes may fall into wrong hands,we feel if we attack..you guys may panic and use nukes...There is nothing to be proud of this i guess...It is a very unsafe situation for both countries.

You can keep on thinking what you want to but if you check the reality the gap is only increasing in every field.


Lastly,I am sorry for your loss in 47..and can you please share with us which terror incident did india indulge in that you had to loose your relatives in.You guys talk of peace when you are the biggest exporter of terrorits or whatever you call them..in my state.They are not fighting any holy war..innocents get killed every year.

Kasab was also not fighting any holy war..he killed innocents who were living in their country.So many people like him get trained in pakistan..and you talk about peace..Why dont you start from your home..Clean the mess first and then talk about peace.

This is a typical indian mind. The problem with you is that your motto is "baghal main chhurri, moonh main raamraam". You are advising Pakistanis to clear the mess then talk of peace, as if your own house is very clean. Ill informed as you are about what your agencies are doing in Pakistan and all along the eastern and western borders of Pakistan. Get to know the facts then advise others.

Having said all this I still feel that both the countries have to live like good and helpful neighbours and for that purpose all the irritants have to be removed to the best satisfaction of both. It is in the interest of each and every individual on both sides of the divide.

 

[Ticker]

Well,I was expecting a reply based on facts and you are talking from your heart.

Pakistan would have been in much better position had it not indulged in all the wrong things in the region from what it did to Bengalis in East Pakistan to Osama incident.You have yourselves to blame for everything and you call youself "The great survivor".Its like the jokes you guys say that.."In 65 we saved Pakistan"..Cmon man Pakistan was already saved had you guys not attacked Akhnoor!!


And the thing you said about Indians predicting Pakistan's failure..i dont know if its true or not but if it is..then i am sorry Sir that has become true...You have lost half of your country already..and the other half which is left is not doing that well too..Whats there to boast about besides the nukes which is saving your nation??What has your achievements been compared to India?..I mean you were talking from your heart very proudly..do kindly let me know whats there to boast about coz i am certainly missing a few points here.

Your economy is not in that great condition,Pakistanis abroad are calling themselves Indians..the world media blames you for terror acts....Would the Great father of your nation Jinnah Sahib be proud of todays Pakistan??..i guess not.


Now comming to Defence related discussions.I dont know why people have a problem with not accepting the reality.When i said IN has a huge advantge over Pakistan people didnt like it..I mean prove it if i am wrong..I can give you so many links from youtube of your own countrymen who have held respectable positions in the Armed forces saying that.You guys are just not ready to accept the truth.

All you want is some Indian saying wah wah..wah wah..

The indian Army plans for limited strikes not because it is afraid but because it doesnt trust people in charge of the N button.We feel that your nukes may fall into wrong hands,we feel if we attack..you guys may panic and use nukes...There is nothing to be proud of this i guess...It is a very unsafe situation for both countries.

You can keep on thinking what you want to but if you check the reality the gap is only increasing in every field.


Lastly,I am sorry for your loss in 47..and can you please share with us which terror incident did india indulge in that you had to loose your relatives in.You guys talk of peace when you are the biggest exporter of terrorits or whatever you call them..in my state.They are not fighting any holy war..innocents get killed every year.

Kasab was also not fighting any holy war..he killed innocents who were living in their country.So many people like him get trained in pakistan..and you talk about peace..Why dont you start from your home..Clean the mess first and then talk about peace.

Alas, the Indian Army officers could not have their evening tea and drinks in Lahore Gymkhana Club on 6 Sep 1965, as they said they would.

Yes we lost the other half of our country because they didn’t want to stay with Pakistan. Now they are Bangladesh and have managed to change the demography of Assam and other bordering Indian states. Eat the cake and enjoy it too.

What are our achievements as against India. Hmmmmm ……. We are still here and you can’t do a damn about it. We are geo-politically much stronger and you are not. You still have half of your people living under poverty line, despite your attempts to change the definition of poverty line, again and again. The number of people living under poverty line in India is three times the population of Pakistan and more than the whole population of Europe. What are you boasting about.

You are entitled have your own guesses, no matter how wrong they are. Nobody stops you from living in your own make belief world and thinking. Please continue that.

Indian Navy is much bigger than Pakistan, so is IAF, so is Indian Army. So what have they been able to achieve other than invading and capturing Sikkim to quell a conspiracy theory.

The truth my dear is that Indian Navy is all dressed up and nowhere to go because of nuclear advent and much stronger world navies operating in the Indian Ocean – All dressed up and nowhere to go should be the motto of Indian Navy.

Ask those Indians as to why do they say wah wah. I am not their spokes person. And what makes you angry with those Indians who say wah wah here.

So you agree that your Army is afraid of our nuclear response capability. So what are you going to do about it.

You clean your own mess which you have created for yourself. Over 140 secessionist and freedom movements in India, the highest number in the world.

When and if we have a mess, we will clean it ourselves – if we want to.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Alas, the Indian Army officers could not have their evening tea and drinks in Lahore Gymkhana Club on 6 Sep 1965, as they said they would.

There is no evidence of this.

Yes we lost the other half of our country because they didn’t want to stay with Pakistan. Now they are Bangladesh and have managed to change the demography of Assam and other bordering Indian states. Eat the cake and enjoy it too.

No,they cannot change the demography of N-E.

What are our achievements as against India. Hmmmmm ……. We are still here and you can’t do a damn about it. We are geo-politically much stronger and you are not. You still have half of your people living under poverty line, despite your attempts to change the definition of poverty line, again and again. The number of people living under poverty line in India is three times the population of Pakistan and more than the whole population of Europe. What are you boasting about.

Sir,Congrats on your biggest achievent that "you are still here"..Care to tell me how is it an achievement..Did India ever announce that it is going to destroy pakistan on so and so date?

Regarding poverty..we are working on it.We were much poorer when we got independence.We cant leave all the development to eradicate poverty.It will take some time but it will surely be eradicated.

You are entitled have your own guesses, no matter how wrong they are. Nobody stops you from living in your own make belief world and thinking. Please continue that.

Thank you..You may continue as well.

Indian Navy is much bigger than Pakistan, so is IAF, so is Indian Army. So what have they been able to achieve other than invading and capturing Sikkim to quell a conspiracy theory.

Noone captured Sikkim.The IA didnt force them to join us.

The truth my dear is that Indian Navy is all dressed up and nowhere to go because of nuclear advent and much stronger world navies operating in the Indian Ocean – All dressed up and nowhere to go should be the motto of Indian Navy.

What should we do in your opinion..Attack evryone in the neighbourhood.We are a peace loving nation.

Ask those Indians as to why do they say wah wah. I am not their spokes person. And what makes you angry with those Indians who say wah wah here.

Who said i am angry?..I am not in a mushaira here.

So you agree that your Army is afraid of our nuclear response capability.

Our Army cares for its citizens so it is worried..It is not like other armies who want to commit suicide and take the entire nation alongwith them.

So what are you going to do about it.

You clean your own mess which you have created for yourself. Over 140 secessionist and freedom movements in India, the highest number in the world.

When and if we have a mess, we will clean it ourselves – if we want to.

We have our problems..atleast we dont send people to kill innocents across the border.We are fighting our own problems..We are not being someones problem atleast.

This is a typical indian mind. The problem with you is that your motto is "baghal main chhurri, moonh main raamraam". You are advising Pakistanis to clear the mess then talk of peace, as if your own house is very clean. Ill informed as you are about what your agencies are doing in Pakistan and all along the eastern and western borders of Pakistan. Get to know the facts then advise others.

Why is your country unable to share the evidence of India's involvement in the International communtiy then?Do what we did after 26/11..Everyone knows Kasab is a Pakistani.

The fact of the matter is that you have no evidence...OTOH the world knows that Pakistan was involved in bombing the indian embassy in Kabul.It is for no reasons that Countries ask you to take action against the terrorists again and again.