Indian Special Forces

[Abingdonboy]

The SPG duties go beyond acting like B grade bollywood bodyguards. They are expected to be working WITH the PM to ensure his security. That means ensuring his personal and professional engagements are not held hostage to the SPG needs. The SPG concerned was acting like a bull in china shop.

A politicians is supposed to have unlimited "stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes". Its their bread and butter.

No i don't agree at all. The PM of India is not the PM of Belgium or the Netherlands that can cycle around their capital city with no bodyguard in sight. The PM of India now lives in the very same sanitised "bubble" the POTUS lives in and for good reason. There will always be a conflict of interests between the bodyguards and the politician but at the end of the day it has to be the professionals' call where matters of security are concerned.

This is why you have seen Modi use the PM's motorcade (BMWs and such) since being in office despite all the nonsense he would continue to use armoured Scorpios (I knew this would NEVER fly).

Modi needs to understand these guys are not intentionally getting in his way or holding him back out of malice but are professionals trying to do a job, their entire careers have been devoted to this objective and they are paid to do this only and they are exceptionally good at it. By pulling the kind of stunts he does (consistently) he is making their lives absurdly difficult.

Modi needs to tone it down a bit BUT, this is the issue, he is the PM, the SPG can't have its way on everything and Modi is going to keep pulling these stunts and this could all end in tears.

As @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has alluded to, JFK was killed because he directly went against the advice of the Secret Service, they had lined up bullet proof (enclosed) limos but he wanted to go in a convertible and he even told the secret service agents who were lined next to the vehicle to back off so the public could see him, we all know how that ended.....

Since that incident the Secret Service has been empowered to dictate (yes dictate) to the POTUS their security arrangements and have not suffered another dead POTUS (Regan's assassination attempt came close and this was primarily down to some incompetance on the Secret Service's part but they have altered their SOPs and nothing similar has happened since).

The SPG guy was very quick in grabbing the bouquet from the PM's hand and came in front of the camera also.

Hence Modi scolded him by saying "what will you do standing here"

I understand this guy is the PM but at the end of the day it is these guys who are saving his *** by becoming a shield for his stupid crowd interactions and unnecessary good byes.

Yeah I saw this at the time bro and initially I was pretty annoyed, it's quite unfair of Modi to publicly scold a member of the SPG in public like that, these things should be done behind closed doors. But this is the kind of guy Modi is and what makes him the leader he is. Clearly he wants to be in the public eye as much as possible.

I've noticed that since this incident the SPG guys around Modi are VERY aware of where the cameras are pointing and where possible remove themselves from the shot and make sure not to obstruct the camera's view of the PM.

 

[Prajapati]

No way.He is the only one who breaks the protocol.MMS didnt do it,ABV didnt do it and neither does Obama and Putin do it.

If he gets shot at or stabbed then the blame will go on SPG.

When JFK can get shot at in USA then i dont think he will be any safer considering his anti Pakistan stand and past doings.

Utter nonsense. Safety Protocol exist for the PM, PM does not exist for protocols.

You are in no position to comment on MMS, ABV, Obama or Putin, so best not to make a fool of yourself.

If the PM ever gets shot or stabbed or anything of that sort, the blame SHOULD go to the SPG. So they better learn to do their job better without restricting unrealistic conditions on the PM.

No i don't agree at all. The PM of India is not the PM of Belgium or the Netherlands that can cycle around their capital city with no bodyguard in sight. The PM of India now lives in the very same sanitised "bubble" the POTUS lives in and for good reason. There will always be a conflict of interests between the bodyguards and the politician but at the end of the day it has to be the professionals' call where matters of security are concerned.

This is why you have seen Modi use the PM's motorcade (BMWs and such) since being in office despite all the nonsense he would continue to use armoured Scorpios (I knew this would NEVER fly).

Modi needs to understand these guys are not intentionally getting in his way or holding him back out of malice but are professionals trying to do a job, their entire careers have been devoted to this objective and they are paid to do this only and they are exceptionally good at it. By pulling the kind of stunts he does (consistently) he is making their lives absurdly difficult.

Modi needs to tone it down a bit BUT, this is the issue, he is the PM, the SPG can't have its way on everything and Modi is going to keep pulling these stunts and this could all end in tears.

As @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has alluded to, JFK was killed because he directly went against the advice of the Secret Service, they had lined up bullet proof (enclosed) limos but he wanted to go in a convertible and he even told the secret service agents who were lined next to the vehicle to back off so the public could see him, we all know how that ended.....

Since that incident the Secret Service has been empowered to dictate (yes dictate) to the POTUS their security arrangements and have not suffered another dead POTUS (Regan's assassination attempt came close and this was primarily down to some incompetance on the Secret Service's part but they have altered their SOPs and nothing similar has happened since).

Yeah I saw this at the time bro and initially I was pretty annoyed, it's quite unfair of Modi to publicly scold a member of the SPG in public like that, these things should be done behind closed doors. But this is the kind of guy Modi is and what makes him the leader he is. Clearly he wants to be in the public eye as much as possible.

I've noticed that since this incident the SPG guys around Modi are VERY aware of where the cameras are pointing and where possible remove themselves from the shot and make sure not to obstruct the camera's view of the PM.

Its a chicken and egg thing. But end of the day the PM gets to call the shots. The SPG is required to work around the PM, not the other way around.

 

[Abingdonboy]

If the PM ever gets shot or stabbed or anything of that sort, the blame SHOULD go to the SPG. So they better learn to do their job better without restricting unrealistic conditions on the PM.

Now this is nonsensical. The SPG will outline a certain security protocol for the PM (he would have been briefed on this many times by now) i.e. no close quarter interactions with large scale crowds, no breaking of security cordons and such. BUT if the PM chooses to ignore this advice of the SPG and intentionally put himself in harm's way then how can one blame the SPG? They can't secure the entire world. They are not supermen.

Its a chicken and egg thing. But end of the day the PM gets to call the shots. The SPG is required to work around the PM, not the other way around.

In certain cases the SPG won't budge and have the final say (Motorcade is a key example) but with the breaking of security cordon and such it's not like the SPG can physically drag the PM back to his car so they have to accommodate him and work around the problems he is causing.

This is a pretty fundamental issue in head of State protection and will always be an issue- the security team and the politician will always have divergent interests.


All I am saying is Modi needs to be more concerned of his own safety and make the job of the SPG easier because at the end of the day they only have one job and they would lay their lives down for him.

 

[Prajapati]

Now this is nonsensical. The SPG will outline a certain security protocol for the PM (he would have been briefed on this many times by now) i.e. no close quarter interactions with large scale crowds, no breaking of security cordons and such. BUT if the PM chooses to ignore this advice of the SPG and intentionally put himself in harm's way then how can one blame the SPG? They can't secure the entire world. They are not supermen.

Rubbish. SPG has to do more than outline security protocol. It has to actively pursue, track and tract all threats to the PM.

No PM goes out of his way to put himself in harms way. That is just an excuse for the SPG not doings it job.

The PM does what he has to do. His security needs to work around that. Period.The SPG might not be supermen since they are not required to be one, but their TEAM better be one super invincible team. They are not required to sanitize the whole world, they are only required to sanitise all the places the PM will visit. That is their JOB.

In certain cases the SPG won't budge and have the final say (Motorcade is a key example) but with the breaking of security cordon and such it's not like the SPG can physically drag the PM back to his car so they have to accommodate him and work around the problems he is causing.

This is a pretty fundamental issue in head of State protection and will always be an issue- the security team and the politician will always have divergent interests.

All I am saying is Modi needs to be more concerned of his own safety and make the job of the SPG easier because at the end of the day they only have one job and they would lay their lives down for him.

There is NOTHING to indicate that the PM is putting himself in harms way or that he is suicidal. Not after he has fought long and hard to get where he is.

The PM needs to be more concerned for the safety, security, prosperity of his countrymen. His own safety is the job of the SPG.

The PM devotes his life to the Nation. SPG's job or sacrifice is not greater than that.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Rubbish. SPG has to do more than outline security protocol. It has to actively pursue, track and tract all threats to the PM.

No PM goes out of his way to put himself in harms way. That is just an excuse for the SPG not doings it job.

The PM does what he has to do. His security needs to work around that. Period.The SPG might not be supermen since they are not required to be one, but their TEAM better be one super invincible team. They are not required to sanitize the whole world, they are only required to sanitise all the places the PM will visit. That is their JOB.



There is NOTHING to indicate that the PM is putting himself in harms way or that he is suicidal. Not after he has fought long and hard to get where he is.

The PM needs to be more concerned for the safety, security, prosperity of his countrymen. His own safety is the job of the SPG.

The PM devotes his life to the Nation. SPG's job or sacrifice is not greater than that.

And waving like a circus clown is part of the job as a PM?

You have no idea what you are talking about.JFK and Benazir died because of similar attitude towards their security.

And this attitude is only show.He is not going to do anything good to this nation by walking 10 steps and saying 'hello' to the crowd.

SPG has the responsibility for his security.We have had 2 former PM die and their security getting blamed.

The tone in which he questioned the SPG was disrespectful and full of arrogance.He should remember the fact that he has upset a lot of people in the world by his past doings and his anti-Pakistan stance.The only people who would save his *** for his crowd pleasing dramas are these guys.

But this is India and i dont expect out netas to be anywhere close to what Americans are.Had this been the case with Obama he would have been criticised.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Rubbish. SPG has to do more than outline security protocol. It has to actively pursue, track and tract all threats to the PM.

Well what you are saying is actually under the purview of multiple security agencies (IB, R&AW, NRTO, DIA, local police and SPG) and it is evident these professionals are doing just this BUT they cannot rule out all risks.

No PM goes out of his way to put himself in harms way. That is just an excuse for the SPG not doings it job.

Excuse me, the SPG IS doing their job! Has any harm come to the PM (or any other PM under their care)? No. Until this changes we cannot but praise their job.

The PM does what he has to do.

Does he NEED, to break his security cordon?

His security needs to work around that. Period.

Again, what nonsense. How can anyone be expected to deliver optimal performance under these conditions? The SPG may create an elaborate security plan that minimises all risk for the PM to cast these arrangements aside and put himself in harm's way.

Whose fault will it be if he comes to harm? Are you saying the PM is under no obligation to follow the advice of PROFESSIONALS charged with his security?

The SPG might not be supermen since they are not required to be one, but their TEAM better be one super invincible team.

They are only as invincible as the PM allows them to be. If he is breaking away from them:

He was in the car, being driven away as per the SPG's plan, HE stopped the motorcade, left the security and wondered into the crowd of children. They reacted as fast as they could of course but one can't get away from the fact the PM put himself at risk where the SPG would have avoided it (and were). What should they do? Tackle him to the ground and drag him back into the car?

They are not required to sanitize the whole world, they are only required to sanitise all the places the PM will visit. That is their JOB.

You don't think this happens? At every sight the PM will make a public appearance ( Beating retreat, Red fort, Rajpanth) the public would have had to go through multiple checks BUT does this rule out all risk? Of course not. When he is walking down Rajpanth or moving towards huge crowds at the Beating Retreat ceremony there is the possibility someone in that crowd has malicious intent and God knows what they can do and with what.

There is NOTHING to indicate that the PM is putting himself in harms way or that he is suicidal. Not after he has fought long and hard to get where he is.

I'm not saying he is suicidal at all (of course not) but he is putting himself at risk where he doesn't need to. i mean, this was just stupid:

Modi asked for the Motorcade to be stopped. There is no way that everyone (or even anyone) lining the streets of Kathmandu had been checked. This is in a foreign nation where the SPG cannot dictate the security terms to the local agencies like they can in India so it is hardly their fault if the crowds are unchecked. No way would the SPG have advised Modi to do this and yet he still did.

Please tell me how this was a good idea, how Modi wasn't putting himself at undue risk here and how the SPG was expected to ensure his safety?

Same thing, this time in Australia:

Again, how is the SPG expected to dictate to the Australian agencies that these folks were to be checked?



Understand that if it was up the the SPG the PM would be sat in some underground bunker and never leave, it is the compulsions of the PM that mean they have to come up with more elaborate security plans to keep him safe in inherently unsafe situations but they cannot do this without a degree of cooperation from the PM.

The PM needs to be more concerned for the safety, security, prosperity of his countrymen. His own safety is the job of the SPG.

Indeed, BUT, in order to fulfil his election promises and achieve his ambitions he needs to be alive and for this he needs to be worried about his own security too and for this he needs to listen to the SPG.

The PM devotes his life to the Nation. SPG's job or sacrifice is not greater than that.

Come on now, the SPG are serving their nation just like Modi is serving his, how can you possibly weigh one person's service as greater than another? Without the SPG God knows how many PMs India would have lost over the years and what kind of mess India would be in as a result. This is totally unfair.

The SPG serve their nation in their way, the PM in his.

 

[Prajapati]

And waving like a circus clown is part of the job as a PM?

You have no idea what you are talking about.JFK and Benazir died because of similar attitude towards their security.

And this attitude is only show.He is not going to do anything good to this nation by walking 10 steps and saying 'hello' to the crowd.

SPG has the responsibility for his security.We have had 2 former PM die and their security getting blamed.

The tone in which he questioned the SPG was disrespectful and full of arrogance.He should remember the fact that he has upset a lot of people in the world by his past doings and his anti-Pakistan stance.The only people who would save his *** for his crowd pleasing dramas are these guys.

But this is India and i dont expect out netas to be anywhere close to what Americans are.Had this been the case with Obama he would have been criticised.

Errr ... yes. Waving like a circus clown is part of the job as PM or President or ANY country. Which is why all of them do it.

His tone when he addressed the SPG was irritated not arrogant. Stop spinning it to suite your political agenda.

India sensibilities are very different from US sensibilities. I quite like it he Indian way, you don't like it, push of to the US. Either way spare us your condescending comparison.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

And waving like a circus clown is part of the job as a PM?

You have no idea what you are talking about.JFK and Benazir died because of similar attitude towards their security.

And this attitude is only show.He is not going to do anything good to this nation by walking 10 steps and saying 'hello' to the crowd.

SPG has the responsibility for his security.We have had 2 former PM die and their security getting blamed.

The tone in which he questioned the SPG was disrespectful and full of arrogance.He should remember the fact that he has upset a lot of people in the world by his past doings and his anti-Pakistan stance.The only people who would save his *** for his crowd pleasing dramas are these guys.

But this is India and i dont expect out netas to be anywhere close to what Americans are.Had this been the case with Obama he would have been criticised.

she died due to her own ignorance (lack of words)... when you have just survived an attack on your life... you dont pop you head from the sun roof and wave at people... her politician frnds were also idiots who didnt stop her... but than again she wasnt a PM.. nor was she provided much security...

 

[Prajapati]

Well what you are saying is actually under the purview of multiple security agencies (IB, R&AW, NRTO, DIA, local police and SPG) and it is evident these professionals are doing just this BUT they cannot rule out all risks.


Excuse me, the SPG IS doing their job! Has any harm come to the PM (or any other PM under their care)? No. Until this changes we cannot but praise their job.


Does he NEED, to break his security cordon?


Again, what nonsense. How can anyone be expected to deliver optimal performance under these conditions? The SPG may create an elaborate security plan that minimises all risk for the PM to cast these arrangements aside and put himself in harm's way.

Whose fault will it be if he comes to harm? Are you saying the PM is under no obligation to follow the advice of PROFESSIONALS charged with his security?


They are only as invincible as the PM allows them to be. If he is breaking away from them:

He was in the car, being driven away as per the SPG's plan, HE stopped the motorcade, left the security and wondered into the crowd of children. They reacted as fast as they could of course but one can't get away from the fact the PM put himself at risk where the SPG would have avoided it (and were). What should they do? Tackle him to the ground and drag him back into the car?


You don't think this happens? At every sight the PM will make a public appearance ( Beating retreat, Red fort, Rajpanth) the public would have had to go through multiple checks BUT does this rule out all risk? Of course not. When he is walking down Rajpanth or moving towards huge crowds at the Beating Retreat ceremony there is the possibility someone in that crowd has malicious intent and God knows what they can do and with what.




I'm not saying he is suicidal at all (of course not) but he is putting himself at risk where he doesn't need to. i mean, this was just stupid:

Modi asked for the Motorcade to be stopped. There is no way that everyone (or even anyone) lining the streets of Kathmandu had been checked. This is in a foreign nation where the SPG cannot dictate the security terms to the local agencies like they can in India so it is hardly their fault if the crowds are unchecked. No way would the SPG have advised Modi to do this and yet he still did.

Please tell me how this was a good idea, how Modi wasn't putting himself at undue risk here and how the SPG was expected to ensure his safety?

Same thing, this time in Australia:

Again, how is the SPG expected to dictate to the Australian agencies that these folks were to be checked?



Understand that if it was up the the SPG the PM would be sat in some underground bunker and never leave, it is the compulsions of the PM that mean they have to come up with more elaborate security plans to keep him safe in inherently unsafe situations but they cannot do this without a degree of cooperation from the PM.


Indeed, BUT, in order to fulfil his election promises and achieve his ambitions he needs to be alive and for this he needs to be worried about his own security too and for this he needs to listen to the SPG.


Come on now, the SPG are serving their nation just like Modi is serving his, how can you possibly weigh one person's service as greater than another? Without the SPG God knows how many PMs India would have lost over the years and what kind of mess India would be in as a result. This is totally unfair.

The SPG serve their nation in their way, the PM in his.

I will keep it short. The PM does what he HAS to do. He knows his job far better than the SPG knows his job. BTW your assumption is wrong that tShe PG cannot dictate to foreign govt. about the security required to be put in place Even in Australia, the SPG gets to have final say in the security matters regarding the Indian PM.

 

[Abingdonboy]

BTW your assumption is wrong that tShe PG cannot dictate to foreign govt. about the security required to be put in place Even in Australia, the SPG gets to have final say in the security matters regarding the Indian PM.

This is categorically false. The host nation has the final say on all security arrangements, after all it is their soil. Just look at Obama's trip to India, did the US Secret Service get everyone they wanted?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Errr ... yes. Waving like a circus clown is part of the job as PM or President or ANY country. Which is why all of them do it.

His tone when he addressed the SPG was irritated not arrogant. Stop spinning it to suite your political agenda.

India sensibilities are very different from US sensibilities. I quite like it he Indian way, you don't like it, push of to the US. Either way spare us your condescending comparison.

I have never seen any PM do things what he does.

And yeah i vote for BJP but i am not on their payroll..and kindly keep your politics out of this thread.

 

[Prajapati]

This is categorically false. The host nation has the final say on all security arrangements, after all it is their soil. Just look at Obama's trip to India, did the US Secret Service get everyone they wanted?

I meant the SPG will get to have their say. Obviously they cannot override the details of the host nation.

I have never seen any PM do things what he does.

And yeah i vote for BJP but i am not on their payroll..and kindly keep your politics out of this thread.

...and you will continue to see many things Modi does that previous PM would never have done. That means nothing in itself.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Para (SF) Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun

February 02, 2015: The Para (SF) units of the Indian Army require an unspecified number of General Purpose Machine Guns (GPMG) on a fast-track basis for which an RFI is expected shortly. The new general purpose machine guns will be for its Parachute (Special Forces) battalions to augment and later replace the license-built Belgian MAG-58 and Soviet-era PKM GPMGs currently in use by the battalions. The weapon needs to be fully interoperable with the current weapons in terms of ammunition compatibility (OFB 7.62x51mm rounds, which will have to be demonstrated in trials), with a barrel life of at least 20,000 rounds. The army has stipulated that it requires a 7.62mm x 51mm caliber weapon to serve as both a light and medium machine gun. The army is looking for a weapon with greater range than an LMG and lighter than an MMG, with a maximum effective range of 1,000-metres. Expectedly, the army would prefer parallel supply of telescopic sights by the OEM, but definitely wants standard Mil 1913 picatinny rails on the weapon to mount different types of sighting systems. As with the two current weapons in service, the army will be looking to use the new GPMGs in multiple modes: as an infantry weapon in different profiles, vehicle mounted and heliborne operations. In 2010 and 2014, the Army said it was also interested in looking at a new 12.7x99mm heavy machine gun for use on a Light Strike Vehicle/Infantry Fighting Vehicle and in a ground role while mounted on vehicle and tripod respectively. The fresh RFI is expected to be published in March this year, with the Army looking to move quickly for a contract.

Para SF Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun
- SP's MAI

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Para (SF) Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun

February 02, 2015: The Para (SF) units of the Indian Army require an unspecified number of General Purpose Machine Guns (GPMG) on a fast-track basis for which an RFI is expected shortly. The new general purpose machine guns will be for its Parachute (Special Forces) battalions to augment and later replace the license-built Belgian MAG-58 and Soviet-era PKM GPMGs currently in use by the battalions. The weapon needs to be fully interoperable with the current weapons in terms of ammunition compatibility (OFB 7.62x51mm rounds, which will have to be demonstrated in trials), with a barrel life of at least 20,000 rounds. The army has stipulated that it requires a 7.62mm x 51mm caliber weapon to serve as both a light and medium machine gun. The army is looking for a weapon with greater range than an LMG and lighter than an MMG, with a maximum effective range of 1,000-metres. Expectedly, the army would prefer parallel supply of telescopic sights by the OEM, but definitely wants standard Mil 1913 picatinny rails on the weapon to mount different types of sighting systems. As with the two current weapons in service, the army will be looking to use the new GPMGs in multiple modes: as an infantry weapon in different profiles, vehicle mounted and heliborne operations. In 2010 and 2014, the Army said it was also interested in looking at a new 12.7x99mm heavy machine gun for use on a Light Strike Vehicle/Infantry Fighting Vehicle and in a ground role while mounted on vehicle and tripod respectively. The fresh RFI is expected to be published in March this year, with the Army looking to move quickly for a contract.

Para SF Urgently Require General Purpose Machine Gun
- SP's MAI

GARUDs are already using NEGEV..wonder what will the Army go for.

 

[Abingdonboy]

GARUDs are already using NEGEV..wonder what will the Army go for.

Indeed, as are the MARCOs (and Punjab Police SWAT team )

For interoperability sake the NEGEV seems like the logical choice I guess.