Indian Special Forces

[Abingdonboy]

Haha..when i earn millions of $$$$ i promise i will do something big related to this.

Well brother you know that you can always enlist my services . For that kind of job I'd be pretty willing to lower my wage expectations

 

[Abingdonboy]

if you are the cameraman send to cover the PM's function. i am sure, your camera will always focus on gears of SPG in there, no place for anyone else..

of course not, the PM would get some token coverage but the REAL stars deserve proportional coverage also


To be honest I doubt I would last long in that role, I would probably use up too much film filming things that were of no use to the network. Also I would likely get put on some "do not admit" list by the SPG as I would be asking questions to any SPG member every opportunity I got.

 

[Koovie]

So after the recent events in France, I wonder how the NSG would cope with a similar situation in India...

Any thought on this?

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

So after the recent events in France, I wonder how the NSG would cope with a similar situation in India...

Any thought on this?

NSG handled 26/11 attack in 2008.. so don't you think they can handle situations like shooting in Paris, now????

 

[bloo]

NSG

 

[Abingdonboy]

NSG handled 26/11 attack in 2008.. so don't you think they can handle situations like shooting in Paris, now????

I guess @Koovie is talking about the fact there are numerous ongoing attacks in different locations across the country. It is a valid question and one the NSG (and others in India) are surely monitoring to learn what they could do in such a situation (standard procedure for the units, just like any units around the world factored in a Mumbai style attack into their preparations.

I have been following the French situation closely and many were saying that there was a fear the French elite units (RAID and GIGN) would be stretched too thin and wouldn't be able to cover a third or fourth scenario and this is perhaps what the terrorists were planning.

As such I would say that today the NSG is well prepared to deal with such a situation. Now of course it depends where the initial attack happens, in the post-26/11 scenario the closest NSG hub will respond with their ready team. If it is required the NSG's main CT task force in Delhi will also be flown into assist (they would already been on alert and awaiting the call). The NSG has depth in their units too, in Delhi and the hubs there are are secondary teams who would already be starting to prepare themselves for the eventuality of responding to a second, third, fourth etc situation.

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

I guess @Koovie is talking about the fact there are numerous ongoing attacks in different locations across the country. It is a valid question and one the NSG (and others in India) are surely monitoring to learn what they could do in such a situation (standard procedure for the units, just like any units around the world factored in a Mumbai style attack into their preparations.

I have been following the French situation closely and many were saying that there was a fear the French elite units (RAID and GIGN) would be stretched too thin and wouldn't be able to cover a third or fourth scenario and this is perhaps what the terrorists were planning.

As such I would say that today the NSG is well prepared to deal with such a situation. Now of course it depends where the initial attack happens, in the post-26/11 scenario the closest NSG hub will respond with their ready team. If it is required the NSG's main CT task force in Delhi will also be flown into assist (they would already been on alert and awaiting the call). The NSG has depth in their units too, in Delhi and the hubs there are are secondary teams who would already be starting to prepare themselves for the eventuality of responding to a second, third, fourth etc situation.

as the terrorists want more causalities, the most probable targets are metropolitan cites. in indian our police SWAT in cites are equipped to handle these kind of attacks... unlike in France india don't have any gun culture. so it won't be an easy task to bring an assault rifle to the cites unless the attackers came from sea.. something like pakistani terror boats. you can't even carry an ww-2 rifle with you in india this is not the case in france their rules allow privet person to carry assault rifles. after Mumbai attack our security forces are more alert.

 

[Koovie]

as the terrorists want more causalities, the most probable targets are metropolitan cites. in indian our police SWAT in cites are equipped to handle these kind of attacks... unlike in France india don't have any gun culture. so it won't be an easy task to bring an assault rifle to the cites unless the attackers came from sea.. something like pakistani terror boats. you can't even carry an ww-2 rifle with you in india this is not the case in france their rules allow privet person to carry assault rifles. after Mumbai attack our security forces are more alert.

France does not have a gun culture either... nor is the only way of getting automatic weapons to India via the sea! From where do you think are organized criminals, naxals and separatists getting their automatic weapons from?

And our SWAT teams are not at the level of SWAT teams of other nations like the US.... they lack experience and I have serious doubts about their training and logistics.

I guess @Koovie is talking about the fact there are numerous ongoing attacks in different locations across the country. It is a valid question and one the NSG (and others in India) are surely monitoring to learn what they could do in such a situation (standard procedure for the units, just like any units around the world factored in a Mumbai style attack into their preparations.

I have been following the French situation closely and many were saying that there was a fear the French elite units (RAID and GIGN) would be stretched too thin and wouldn't be able to cover a third or fourth scenario and this is perhaps what the terrorists were planning.

As such I would say that today the NSG is well prepared to deal with such a situation. Now of course it depends where the initial attack happens, in the post-26/11 scenario the closest NSG hub will respond with their ready team. If it is required the NSG's main CT task force in Delhi will also be flown into assist (they would already been on alert and awaiting the call). The NSG has depth in their units too, in Delhi and the hubs there are are secondary teams who would already be starting to prepare themselves for the eventuality of responding to a second, third, fourth etc situation.

Good points, I also think that transportation is the biggest issue for them... The south of the nation seems to be less "covered" than the rest of the nation. I know that there are agreements to transfer them in airliners and that the NSG would cooperate with the military, but nevertheless, I think that delays will happen... we all know how things work out in India.

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

France does not have a gun culture either... nor is the only way of getting automatic weapons to India via the sea! From where do you think are organized criminals, naxals and separatists getting their automatic weapons from?

And our SWAT teams are not at the level of SWAT teams of other nations like the US.... they lack experience and I have serious doubts about their training and logistics.

yes they have a gun culture. more than 75% of the illegal weapons in India are smuggled through sea. maoists and other criminals got these weapons form sea route.

our swat team may be not sofisticated as the same level of US SWAT, but they are not poorly trained or equipped. NSG is training and supporting almost every police SWAT units in india. local swat unit got training form NSG's training center in manesar.
BTW, in case of a major terror strike the job for local SWAT unit is to hold those terrorists untill the NSG arrive, it is same in every country. even in US any major terror attack or Hostage crisis the local swat's job is to control the situation until FBI SWAT or HRT arrives.

 

[Koovie]

our swat team may be not sofisticated as the same level of US SWAT, but they are not poorly trained or equipped. NSG is training and supporting almost every police SWAT units in india. local swat unit got training form NSG's training center in manesar.

Oh I have doubts about their training and their logistics... after all we are talking about the IPS itself. We dont know how many hours of training they get. Force One for instance had massive problems to even find a suitable training ground... and had to cut training session because of a lack of funds.

And as I said, these guys totally lack any kind of experience..

BTW, in case of a major terror strike the job for local SWAT unit is to hold those terrorists untill the NSG arrive, it is same in every country. even in US any major terror attack or Hostage crisis the local swat's job is to control the situation until FBI SWAT or HRT arrives.

True, but lets see how the transport of NSG units will play out in a major terrorist attack like 26/11....

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

Oh I have doubts about their training and their logistics... after all we are talking about the IPS itself. We dont know how many hours of training they get. Force One for instance had massive problems to even find a suitable training ground... and had to cut training session because of a lack of funds.

And as I said, these guys totally lack any kind of experience..



True, but lets see how the transport of NSG units will play out in a major terrorist attack like 26/11....

it is not an IPS officer who leads the operations of SWAT unit. yes, there are many problems in training and logistics. but it is very common in every country.

True, but lets see how the transport of NSG units will play out in a major terrorist attack like 26/11....

mm.. during 26/11, transportation was a nightmare for nsg.. but it is much better now. with the introduction of c-130j and c-17. it won't cause as much delay for transportation for NSG as it takes in 2008. and our military SF like para(sf) and marcos are also there for ready for action in moments notice. after mumbai attack the GoI had increase the training of all the security forces in india to deal with terror attack. india is in a very much better position than it was in 2008.

 

[Koovie]

it is not an IPS officer who leads the operations of SWAT unit. yes, there are many problems in training and logistics. but it is very common in every country.

No, I pretty darn sure that IPS officers lead IPS units!

Yes, every nation has problems, but the IPS is probably the most incompetent police force in a democratic nation.

mm.. during 26/11, transportation was a nightmare for nsg.. but it is much better now. with the introduction of c-130j and c-17. it won't cause as much delay for transportation for NSG as it takes in 2008. and our military SF like para(sf) and marcos are also there for ready for action in moments notice. after mumbai attack the GoI had increase the training of all the security forces in india to deal with terror attack. india is in a very much better position than it was in 2008.

Yes, things have improved since 2008... but the question is how much?

Only a real life situation will eventually tell it... but of course that should never happen

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Koovie, I can't talk about the quality of the local SWAT units, some will be good some below par. The NSG has had a role in the formation/initial training of many but then it comes down to the individual police units once the umbilical cord is cut and they have to stand on their own two feet. Certainly some are more professionally run than others and this is reflected in the fact they continue to hold joint CT exercises with the NSG on a regular occasion.

In time it will be the norm for these units to be well trained an equipped but give it time, many are still under 5 years old (some were only raised last year!).


As for the NSG's logistics, well, without being too specific, we can be sure this has GREATLY improved. Not only do the IAF keep 1 Super Herc on stand by 24/7 for the main CT task force in Delhi and the NSG now having the ability to take control of any aircraft in Indian airspace but every NSG hub has a unit ready to get to their nearest airport and fly out should they need so. I know for a fact the NSG are now regularly training in this drill and there are the requisite contingencies in place.

The only thing that now needs to be done to make the plans foolproof is for the NSG hubs to get their own helos. Having to rely on road transportation (on INDIAN roads) is troublesome and time consuming and the NSG is well aware of it but I still think their own helos are a long way off. At best there are certain plans in place to source the local rotary wing assets located near every hub (IA, IN and IAF) and each NSG hub has a contingency in place for this with the local helo unit on board BUT clearly this is far from ideal as no NSG hub has a helo AT THE HUB round the clock and this is what is needed ideally. To an extent this is less of an issue with the NSG's main CT task force as it is permanently based at the IGI airport around the clock ready to board a plane and their kit is already packed up and ready to be loaded. What is additionally comforting about this unit is has been expended (in terms of capabilities) since 26/11 and the task force is ready to fly to anywhere in India (or the world) and be self-sufficent for the first 48 hours- this is a large part of the NSG's 2010-15 modernisation plan.

Give it time anyway, these NSG hubs are still a relatively new concept and a huge departure from the NSG's traditional force discretion structure. It will take a while longer for the NSG hubs to get self-sufficent in their own rights (remember they are meant to replicate Mansear but on a regional level).

A major issue, as you have pointed out, is transportation and logistics in a country as vast as India, where possible the situation will be improved. The onus is on the local units to get up to speed quickly and be a credible first line of defence/response buying time for the NSG to arrive on scene.

 

[DIRECT ACTION]

@Abingdonboy, bro, it is said that NSG is trained and modeled by GSG 9... does NSG have any cooperation with other french CT/SF like GIGN or RAID??... some yeas ago there was a report that NSG will be trained by FBI and other top counter-terror units,, any info on that?

No, I pretty darn sure that IPS officers lead IPS units!

Yes, every nation has problems, but the IPS is probably the most incompetent police force in a democratic nation.



Yes, things have improved since 2008... but the question is how much?

Only a real life situation will eventually tell it... but of course that should never happen

over all control is done by IPS.. it is same for NSG.
how much did they improved after 26/11??...mmm... only HM can say that.

 

[Ranndhawa]

Is Tavor is only used by S.F Or regular infantry will use it in future replacing the insas?