Indian RFP for six new-generation submarines

[gogbot]

TO all those B******g about the price , take these points to note.

1.) we need these subs badly , even if we start production of the Arihant class from 2015 onwards we will still be un-able to achieve force levels we desire. The Arihant class is our first generation of Nuclear subs , and first generations are rarely ever optimised for Mass production . sub-marines themselves are rarely ever easy to mass produce.

2.)These subs are at least 7-8 years away at best. Right around the time the Scorpene subs will be all built. our economy alone is set to double in 5 years. One can only speculate about the size of our defence budget at the time.

3.)The off set policy is in play in this deal. with at least 4 of the six submarines , being built in India. A lot of this money is going back into India , building up infrastructure and raising investment

4.)These subs are being built in India , so TOT, Licensing , training and infrastructure costs apply. % wise you may find the a large proportion of the deal is for those item, rather then the actual submarines themselves. IF we ordered more submarines then just six , the price increase may be less then just 1.8 billion per submarine.

 

[jha]

yes..i agree price is not of that concern...just look at brazil scorpene deal...they ordered 4 subs for $9.9 bil.

 

[gowthamraj]

^ and that include nuclear reactors

 

[jha]

^ and that include nuclear reactors

No that does not include a nuclear reactor...It however includes a hull for a nuclear submarine. Which probably would be of Barracuda class..

 

[angeldemon_007]

MDL is busy with Scorpene, Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam is busy with Arihant, Cochin shipbuilding yard busy with aircraft carrier. I think its now time that either the govt should think of constructing one more shipbuilding yard or upgrade some old yard to the capability of building submarines. MDL is on the way of making itself enlisted among projects like HAL tejas which has witnessed great amount of delays, its now time to transfer the technology which MDL has gained to some other yard and also transfer some of its submarines to that yard. MDL can also tie up with LnT and can earn some money by transfer of technology. I think it would be really good for MDL and Indian defence in private sector. This new shipyard will help us in P75/I(new generation submarine of indian navy). Also if India wants to make these submarines before 2020 then we should definitely try to increase our infrastructure. Wat u guys think???

 

[sancho]

MDL is busy with Scorpene, Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam is busy with Arihant, Cochin shipbuilding yard busy with aircraft carrier. I think its now time that either the govt should think of constructing one more shipbuilding yard or upgrade some old yard to the capability of building submarines. MDL is on the way of making itself enlisted among projects like HAL tejas which has witnessed great amount of delays, its now time to transfer the technology which MDL has gained to some other yard and also transfer some of its submarines to that yard. MDL can also tie up with LnT and can earn some money by transfer of technology. I think it would be really good for MDL and Indian defence in private sector. This new shipyard will help us in P75/I(new generation submarine of indian navy). Also if India wants to make these submarines before 2020 then we should definitely try to increase our infrastructure. Wat u guys think???

You might missed this article:

After delays, Scorpene submarine now on track: Navy chief

 

[angeldemon_007]

That scorpene deal include 4 diesal sub. + 1 nuke sub + 1 state of the art shipyard in rio that will be managed by dcns till the project and than it will be transfered back to Brazil. They will get technology for 2 sub and even a shipyard in $9.3 billion.
domain-b.com : Brazil, France sign $12-billion deal for submarines, helicopters

If India is signing this kind of deal then also i dont think its worth it.
If you want TOT, buy in bulk thats it. I cant get 11 billion $ is for what ?
6 sub can't cost this much. The infrastructure for making these sub in our shipyard will cost extra. I just dont get why Indian deals get twice the price the other countries pay ? The best deal which i see till now is MMRCA. I prefer TOT so that we can get the tech and our industries could progress and we can also reduce the cost of production. But does anybody knows that the cost of any big project like them is actually a lot more than this. For eg: Su 30mki purchased from Russia is way more cheaper than the one prepared by HAL.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Yeah Sancho, I have read that article. Have you seen the time frame ?/ I mean its hilarious, if you believe they will be able to deliver all subs by 2015 than you must rethink. The project is 3 years delayed, after all this MDL says, they will deliver 1st sub in 2012 and by 2015 all of them (3 years time frame). I hope they are true but i dont believe they will be able to pull up the task in the claimed time frame. And i am not talking about P75, right now MDL is struggling with P75, what about p75i which would be signed in 2012-2013. Navy wants P75i should be made simultaneously in our yards while 2 of 6 subs will be made in foreign yard. At least one more yard is needed and MDL should be relieved from the pressure. I think even 2 of the P75 sub should be transfered to some other yard.

I just read one article about p75i, in which france agreed to give india 6 bigger scorpene with AIP and even agreed to fit AIP in the upcoming P75 subs. A nice deal according to me. I think India should consider French deal, by this way we could save 5 billion $ and with those 5 billion we can buy another 5 or 6 from Germany. And now we should go for smaller, cheaper but stealthier subs.

By the way its not just our yards who delays. I dont know how much work it takes to issue an RFP and RFI but i think Navy is very sluggish. On one end they are saying their sub fleet is drastically reducing and on the other end, they haven't issued RFP yet. Indian Navy issued RFI in 2009, they will issue RFP in 2011 and the deal will be signed in 2012-2013 . I dont understand what is our navy doing ?/ I dont think they are so busy, on the contrary they have nothing to do.

I think P17a will also be given to DCNS, France and even 4 amphibious warships project might also go to Mistral class(DCNS).
I think DCNS should open their own shipyard in India (with some partnership).

 

[ajtr]

And these super duper submarines are for....fighting non existent super duper maoist navy right????

 

[kingdurgaking]

And these super duper submarines are for....fighting non existent super duper maoist navy right????

Brother take a break... you seems to be feeling more of depressed.. go for a holiday and come back.. it would be good for you, your work and PDF

 

[GORKHALI]

@ajtr - 1st thing 1st ,please change ur flags then we come to discuss anything with you.

 

[great]

Guys, How do we ignore someone?

 

[angeldemon_007]

And these super duper submarines are for....fighting non existent super duper maoist navy right????
Don't worry man, these subs are for defending our water from the enemy.

 

[IndianTiger]

Nice, thanks for lovely sweets..