Indian Rafale talks hit offset snag

[New World]

Bro. if India wanted to have Rafale for Navy then the MMRCA which was conducted by IAF would have been done by Indian NAVY.

Bro, @surya kiran said that 36 jets will be handovered to IN and IAF will spectra to be used in AMCA and FGFA..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Bro, @surya kiran said that 36 jets will be handovered to IN and IAF will spectra to be used in AMCA and FGFA..

There are many non technical persons sitting on PDF...

 

[surya kiran]

@ACE OF THE AIR I 'wish' it be done, if it is procured and 'wish' it can be used. But, I really wish this deal is scrapped and money moved to the PakFa and LCA Mk II. The time for the deal is gone and other options are available. The MRCA is officially dead. A g2g deal has ensured this. So, technically, the Rafale can be provided to the IN.

@New World Spectra is specifically made for Rafale. It cannot be taken and 'fitted' into the AMCA or PakFa. My suggestion is it needs to be studied, if procured and a similar suite be made available for the AMCA and PakFa, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel like the Kaveri.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@ACE OF THE AIR I 'wish' it be done, if it is procured and 'wish' it can be used. But, I really wish this deal is scrapped and money moved to the PakFa and LCA Mk II.

@New World Spectra is specifically made for Rafale. It cannot be taken and 'fitted' into the AMCA or PakFa. My suggestion is it needs to be studied, if procured and a similar suite be made available for the AMCA and PakFa, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel like the Kaveri.

As far as SPECTRA is concerned if India does not even buy the Rafale it can still be bought for the LCA. Once they are bought for the LCA then an other sub system with some tweaks can be made for the AMCA but not for the PAKFA as that would be considered a Russian Aircraft.

Even if India does go after AMCA then it would be not atleast 2020 because the orders and development of LCA would be putting HAL under a lot of stress. More over the expertise is not going to be available to the engineers as well.
By this time there might be some thing available in the market that would be of a higher grade than that of present day Spectra.

 

[New World]

I 'wish' it be done, if it is procured and 'wish' it can be used. But, I really wish this deal is scrapped and money moved to the PakFa and LCA Mk II. The time for the deal is gone and other options are available. The MRCA is officially dead. A g2g deal has ensured this. So, technically, the Rafale can be provided to the IN.

then these jets should be built upon navy's requirement not airforce requirement..

As far as SPECTRA is concerned if India does not even buy the Rafale it can still be bought for the LCA

Spectra will come with its whole suit which will increase the unit price of LCA..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

then these jets should be built upon navy's requirement not airforce requirement..

Bro.. @surya kiran is trying to say India does not need Rafales. They can make the LCA / Tejas to do the same role as that of Rafale provided they get the Spectra.

Spectra will come with its whole suit which will increase the unit price of LCA..

Price is not an issue...LCA would be still cheaper then the Rafale.

Though the LCA is a very expensive aircraft because of the many failures it had in the past. Still the required number is too high so it could become profitable may be not too much but the Banya's who even consider 1 paisa profit as profit.

 

[surya kiran]

As far as SPECTRA is concerned if India does not even buy the Rafale it can still be bought for the LCA. Once they are bought for the LCA then an other sub system with some tweaks can be made for the AMCA but not for the PAKFA as that would be considered a Russian Aircraft.

Even if India does go after AMCA then it would be not atleast 2020 because the orders and development of LCA would be putting HAL under a lot of stress. More over the expertise is not going to be available to the engineers as well.
By this time there might be some thing available in the market that would be of a higher grade than that of present day Spectra.

There was spomething interesting I had read about Spectra. It said, that the RCS of the Rafale was available in the suite and hence when a radar was bounced off it, it would re-act in some manner. Beyond that was technicall gibberish to me. So my understanding was that Spectra was specifically for the Rafale. Maybe, somebody like @gambit or @Oscar or @halloweene can explain it better. But, crux what i understood was its custom made for the Rafale, including placing of its passive receivers and responders.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

There was spomething interesting I had read about Spectra. It said, that the RCS of the Rafale was available in the suite and hence when a radar was bounced off it, it would re-act in some manner. Beyond that was technicall gibberish to me. So my understanding was that Spectra was specifically for the Rafale. Maybe, somebody like @gambit or @Oscar or @halloweene can explain it better. But, crux what i understood was its custom made for the Rafale, including placing of its passive receivers and responders.

Well I have not read much about Spectra so can not be of enough help in the regards to the RCS of Rafale.

The only thing that I can think of is even if it is specifically designed for Rafale it can be modified for other Fighters too. Now how much would that cost is not known...

There was spomething interesting I had read about Spectra. It said, that the RCS of the Rafale was available in the suite and hence when a radar was bounced off it, it would re-act in some manner. Beyond that was technicall gibberish to me. So my understanding was that Spectra was specifically for the Rafale. Maybe, somebody like @gambit or @Oscar or @halloweene can explain it better. But, crux what i understood was its custom made for the Rafale, including placing of its passive receivers and responders.

The SPECTRA system for the Rafale combat aircraft operates in electromagnetic, laser and infra-red domains. Using sophisticated techniques, such as interferometry for high precision DOA and passive ranging, digital frequency memory for signal coherency and active phased-array transmitters for maximum effectiveness and covertness, the highly advanced multi-sensors and artificial intelligence data fusion capabilities of SPECTRA provide the Rafale aircraft with the best chance to survive in harsh and lethal environments. The Rafale combat aircraft and the SPECTRA system are fully operational onboard the French Navy's Rafale.

Offering unique high sensitivity detection and multiple threat capability, and operating smart data fusion between multi-spectral sensors, it provides identification, location, jamming and decoying against an extensive range of electromagnetic, infra-red and laser threats.

Additionally, SPECTRA fulfils new functions in a combat aircraft, while significantly participating in the determination of the aircraft's tactical situation, and providing the crew with operational advantage by performing accurate threat location.

By virtue of its fully passive situational awareness capability, SPECTRA is a major contributor to the low observability concept of Rafale.

SPECTRA | Combat Systems | Thales Group

According to the above posted ling and picture Spectra is nothing but a Combat System hence it can easily be added to an other aircraft. the only thing that might have some issue is the cockpit which might need some modification. As far as I know LCA has a similar cockpit like the Rafale so it is possible it can be selected and upgraded to suite.

 

[ziaulislam]

FGFA/PAKFA just might be the real winner if russians some how can deliver them to india on fast track basis both ways its win win situation for IAF & all indians specially those on PDF

no its not, IAF is already depleted and this will mean loss of at least 5 years in best case scenario, likely 10 years...mean while china is already much superior in numbers and probably in technology too.

i think India should buy 18 rafale, 18 typhoons and 18 mig 35s.....this wil cost the same as buying 36 rafale.

the left over money can go into AMCA, forget about LCA it was learning experience.
AMCA is the future, you will find something else by the time AMCA is about to be ready and it will be even better learning experience than LCA.

everybody is happy and and everybody wins

Even if India does go after AMCA then it would be not atleast 2020 because the orders and development of LCA would be putting HAL under a lot of stress. More over the expertise is not going to be available to the engineers as well.
By this time there might be some thing available in the market that would be of a higher grade than that of present day Spectra.

AMCA even is not at concept of design phase.
If started today, don't expect serial production by 2030.

 

[Taygibay]

@Taygibay
put some light here..

F-35 would not be a bad choice for your ski-jump carriers, the B version.
This said, it would come with an awful lot of restrictions, ask the Brits!

The offset at 30% should be doable, at 50% for the same 6B Euros as the non-Offset Egypt or Qatar …
for a dozen more planes? You do the math! Discouting the armament, 36 Rafales is likely around 4B Euros.
So 2 B in offset sure. 3? Very unlikely. Although mind you the JVs exist to do that.
We'll see, this is not properly sourced anyway, Jane's or no Jane's so …

even if it is specifically designed for Rafale it can be modified for other Fighters too. Now how much would that cost is not known...

Nope! Straight no on that, mate! For both reasons of state and MDPU/Sensor fusion/AESA tech.
The very reason why you heard little about it is because its capacities are strictly secret.
The threat libraries for instance won't come with the Rafale. You'll have to build your own.

Good evening all, read you tomorrow, Tay.

 

[xyxmt]

looks more like EDAS is leaving no stone unturned to sabotage rafale deal in its favour .... funny thing is anty india clowns jumping up and down over such speculations

been jumping for 5 years now, Now i feel like a cheer leader of a never ending game.

 

[uparyupari]

No comment save to allow a better discussion :

offsets are not unless specified about anything related to the product even weapons.
If specified that offsets are to be in a mili product of parts-construction nature, then that
is the first step in ToT.

If not specified, nothing stops a car company to offset in a new market with a lollipop factory
worth the value in percent of the deal.

You people would need that precision stated if it exists.
Good day and condo all, Tay.

There is NO point in being over smart about this.

The Offset is NOT for a lollipop factory but for Rafale manufacturing / parts.

Even if that is not specified, Dassault better be clear if it wants to sign this deal. No point in being clever by half by hiding behind technicalities.

Only thing that will show is bad intent and an untrustworthy nature. Not smart by any angle.

F-35 would not be a bad choice for your ski-jump carriers, the B version.
This said, it would come with an awful lot of restrictions, ask the Brits!

The offset at 30% should be doable, at 50% for the same 6B Euros as the non-Offset Egypt or Qatar …
for a dozen more planes? You do the math! Discouting the armament, 36 Rafales is likely around 4B Euros.
So 2 B in offset sure. 3? Very unlikely. Although mind you the JVs exist to do that.
We'll see, this is not properly sourced anyway, Jane's or no Jane's so …

Since the defined requirement is for 50% offset, the 36 ordered will be for the same terms. The only exemption being HAL is now out and Dassault is free to choose its own partners.

Dassault should have been more careful for what it wished for. Now that you have got you wish, Enjoy.

 

[MastanKhan]

looks more like EDAS is leaving no stone unturned to sabotage rafale deal in its favour .... funny thing is anty india clowns jumping up and down over such speculations

Hi,

At first I thought it read as " aunty india " and I said 'damnnn'---aunty india---what is that---what's up with india being an Aunty----but then I realized you meant anti india----.

You know after all you guys fcuk up---bragging---strutting around---56 in chest---when it comes down to this---please kindy allow the opposition to at least " smirk " a little bit at the new fcuk up---hehn----that can't be too bitter---now is it. So---be a good boy---and tell the guys---" take it with a smile people ".

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Forget about Rafale get SU 35 and FGFA / PAKFA

 

[Indian Patriot]

It is IAF's loss. Rafale is a good aircraft and the best buy for India short of PAK-FA. 126 Rafales in Indian colours would have given China sleepless nights. But Indian babus had to blow up this entire deal and turn this whole thing into a fiasco and an embarrassment for India.

Cancel flop projects like LCA which will never be inducted. Purchase Rafale and MODERN jets to strengthen up national security.