Indian PM elections - 2019 [News and gossips]

[Joe Shearer]

I understand your point of not including the fifth member but sir doesn't matter how much fallacy he may bring to the conversation but we have to understand there are tons of people with that mindset and if we ignore them then fifth element is in the making.

I leave the question of inclusion and exclusion of that individual to you, and will not impose on anyone. It has been my observation that bringing in different points of view, including opposing points of view, actually tests our beliefs in the crucible of doubt and dissent.

To be honest sir i see many downsides of BJP

• Association with some fringes
  
• Not able to deliver for farmers and poll promises (This is personal to me)
• Mishandling of Kashmir situation and making army achievement as political gains
• Study of after effects and poor implementation of demonetization
• Infrastructure sector didn't pick up much growth
  
• No action on Corrupt politicians
• Not able to solve core issues ( River linking , education, job creation)

How could you be possibly closer to the positions of myself and some who are of the identical kind of thinking, except that they acknowledge political expediency as a necessary evil, and I personally find it too distasteful to dissemble and claim to be able to live with it?

Do you wish to take this discussion out of the forum or i misunderstood sir?

The thought had occurred, but then again, taking everything interesting outside the forum is a very exploitative position.

 

[Sam.]

I leave the question of inclusion and exclusion of that individual to you, and will not impose on anyone. It has been my observation that bringing in different points of view, including opposing points of view, actually tests our beliefs in the crucible of doubt and dissent.



How could you be possibly closer to the positions of myself and some who are of the identical kind of thinking, except that they acknowledge political expediency as a necessary evil, and I personally find it too distasteful to dissemble and claim to be able to live with it?



The thought had occurred, but then again, taking everything interesting outside the forum is a very exploitative position.

Joe sir i think every Indian want the same thing but their mindset are on different level and sometime few emotionally driven urges take over and you see the sheep mindset of repeating same facade without them questioning themselves why.

I have come to conclusion that we are emotionally immature people and lack pragmatic thinking. Also please explain further this line-

I personally find it too distasteful to dissemble and claim to be able to live with it?

If it was too simple then please pardon me as my ability to comprehend simple things are over driven by alcohol.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe sir i think every Indian want the same thing but their mindset are on different level and sometime few emotionally driven urges take over and you see the sheep mindset of repeating same facade without them questioning themselves why.

I have come to conclusion that we are emotionally immature people and lack pragmatic thinking.

Let me be specific:

1. Questioning another Indian citizen's legitimacy as a citizen because of his or her religion;
2. ....or caste
3. ....or political belief
4. ....or language
5. ....or his or her opposition to the Indian constitution, the Indian state or Indian institutions
6. ....or choice of diet, eating habits and having eaten beef or planning to eat beef
7. ....or adherence to a system of personal law currently at variance with the personal law of others
8. ....or refusal to acknowledge symbols of the Indian state, or symbolical actions, due to religious inhibitions

is an attack on that questioned citizen's constitutional rights, is hateful, is divisive and is directly in opposition to the principles on which India was founded.

Before being misunderstood - other than you, others are reading this, and they are all too ready to distort things and produce a monster where there is reason - let it be very clearly understood that for #5, questioning the citizenship of the person concerned is illegitimate; criticising that person's beliefs opposing the constitution, the state or institutions is not. Attack his, or her beliefs, not that person's citizenship of India.

On #7, once it is law, based on a fair and open debate and an effort to incorporate the views of those affected, there is no question of opposition. But to ram it down people's throats, without discussion, without an effort to hear the opposed point of view, is wrong.

On #8, I am opposed to the relentless hypocrisy of those who try to make anything and everything a loyalty test, the anything not being random, but carefully selected to offend a segment of the people whom they don't like. BJP legislators who want citizens to sing Vande Mataram, used ironically by the Congress as its rallying cry during the struggle for independence, are themselves unable to sing it.

Also please explain further this line-

I personally find it too distasteful to dissemble and claim to be able to live with it

If it was too simple then please pardon me as my ability to comprehend simple things are over driven by alcohol.

It means that I can't say a thing like,"All Muslim Indians should stop eating beef since it is against the religious traditions of the majority", and pretend that it is my own sincere belief. It is something that I am doing in order to fit in, and to please those who would otherwise scream at me for being a Jayachand.

The sentence might have been written under the influence of alcohol! How do you know it wasn't?

 

[Sam.]

Let me be specific:

1. Questioning another Indian citizen's legitimacy as a citizen because of his or her religion;
2. ....or caste
3. ....or political belief
4. ....or language
5. ....or his or her opposition to the Indian constitution, the Indian state or Indian institutions
6. ....or choice of diet, eating habits and having eaten beef or planning to eat beef
7. ....or adherence to a system of personal law currently at variance with the personal law of others
8. ....or refusal to acknowledge symbols of the Indian state, or symbolical actions, due to religious inhibitions

is an attack on that questioned citizen's constitutional rights, is hateful, is divisive and is directly in opposition to the principles on which India was founded.

Before being misunderstood - other than you, others are reading this, and they are all too ready to distort things and produce a monster where there is reason - let it be very clearly understood that for #5, questioning the citizenship of the person concerned is illegitimate; criticising that person's beliefs opposing the constitution, the state or institutions is not. Attack his, or her beliefs, not that person's citizenship of India.

On #7, once it is law, based on a fair and open debate and an effort to incorporate the views of those affected, there is no question of opposition. But to ram it down people's throats, without discussion, without an effort to hear the opposed point of view, is wrong.

On #8, I am opposed to the relentless hypocrisy of those who try to make anything and everything a loyalty test, the anything not being random, but carefully selected to offend a segment of the people whom they don't like. BJP legislators who want citizens to sing Vande Mataram, used ironically by the Congress as its rallying cry during the struggle for independence, are themselves unable to sing it.



It means that I can't say a thing like,"All Muslim Indians should stop eating beef since it is against the religious traditions of the majority", and pretend that it is my own sincere belief. It is something that I am doing in order to fit in, and to please those who would otherwise scream at me for being a Jayachand.

The sentence might have been written under the influence of alcohol! How do you know it wasn't?

Agreed on everything but it should be apply on everyone and not only majority should burden their shoulder. (This is what i felt pre-2014)

Also it's take one to know one. Cheers literally...

 

[Shankranthi]

I don’t understand why BJP is struggling? Modi has brought electricity for all, hygiene for all, roads, ports, bridges, development, banking, laws, etc. How much more do the voters want???

You underestimate the Hindu inferiority complex. For most Hindus, Hindu pride is an aberration and not a rule. It is something to enjoy in the comforts of his ignorance and fear, not in the light of knowledge and courage.

He associates Hindu pride with impending Humiliation and disaster. Possibly a renascence of a thousand years of history passed on from generation to generation.

So it does not matter how much Modi does for him, he will always look back towards the CONgress in fear and mutter "better the known devil, than an unknown friend called Hindutva". (Not that Modi has done a great job)

It will take a long time for this historic fear and irrational behavior to disappear. Till then the corrupt will have a relatively free run from within the CONgress and from outside it.


"Fear" of the Hindutva / Hindu Pride is the real thing keeping the BJP out of office in pretty much all states in south India.

 

[Nilgiri]

i have long conversations about you with @Joe Shearer , Would love to meet you one day and pick that brain of your

I am honoured BTW...didn't know quite what to say at first haha. Good things I hope?...though I have probably caused some nasty heartburn for ole Joe as well (which I never intend for...just kind of happens).

I plan on moving back to India in the not too distant future so I can start some projects/seed some businesses etc that it sorely needs....I hope to meet all of you good ppl and pick your brains so you can pick mine . In the interim this forum does it fine...but you are right there is nothing quite like face to face.

 

[JanjaWeed]

 

[Sam.]

If polls held now, NDA may fall short of majority by 15 seats, says survey
According to the survey, conducted between December 15-25 at the fag end of last year in all 543 parliamentary constituencies, the NDA may get 257 seats and the Congress-led UPA (minus SP and BSP) may get 146 seats, far off the magic mark.

The survey says that NDA could get 37.15 per cent votes, UPA 29.92 per cent and `others' 32.93 per cent. (Image: Reuters)
HIGHLIGHTS

• NDA may get 257 seats in the 543-member Lok Sabha
• UPA may get 146 seats, says the survey
• The survey was conducted after the results of the recent assembly elections were declared

The BJP-led National Democratic Alliance at the Centre may fall nearly 15 seats short of the magic mark of 272 in the 543-seat Lok Sabha, if elections are held now, says the India TV-CNX opinion poll.

According to the survey, conducted between December 15-25 at the fag end of last year in all 543 parliamentary constituencies, the NDA may get 257 seats and the Congress-led UPA (minus SP and BSP) may get 146 seats, far off the magic mark.


The survey was done after the results of assembly polls in five states including Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh where Congress has formed governments.

The survey said on Saturday that key to government formation could lie in the hands of 'others' who may get 140 seats in a House of 543.

'Others' include Samajwadi Party, BSP, AIADMK, Trinamool Congress, Telangana Rashtra Samithi, Biju Janata Dal, YSR Congress Party, Left Front, PDP of Mehbooba Mufti, AIUDF of Badruddin Ajmal, AIMIM of Asaduddin Owaisi, INLD, Aam Aadmi Party, JVM(P), AMMK of Tamil Nadu and independent MPs.

NDA includes the ruling BJP, Shiv Sena, Akali Dal, JD(U), Mizo National Front, Apna Dal, Sikkim Democratic Front, LJP of Ramvilas Paswan, NPP of Meghalaya, INRC of Puducherry, PMK and NDPP of Nagaland.

An India TV release said that UPA includes the main opposition Congress, Rashtriya Janata Dal, DMK, TDP, Sharad Pawar's NCP, Devegowda's JD(S), Ajit Singh's RLD, National Conference, RSP, JMM, IUML, Kerala Congress (Mani) and RLSP.

The earlier nationwide survey conducted by India TV-CNX in November, before the assembly polls, had given NDA a clear majority with 281 seats, UPA 124, and 'Others' 138. Since then there has been a reduction of 24 seats in NDA and an addition of 22 seats in UPA, says the survey.

The survey says that NDA could get 37.15 per cent votes, UPA 29.92 per cent and `others' 32.93 per cent.

Within the NDA, BJP may win 223 seats, Shiv Sena 8, JD(U) 11, Akali Dal 5, LJP 3, PMK 1, NDPP 1, AINRC 1, NPP 1, SDF 1, Apna Dal 1, and MNF 1.

The survey said that Congress may win 85 seats (almost double that it won in 2014), DMK 21, Lalu Prasad's RJD 10, NCP 9, JMM 4, JD(S) 4, RLD 2, RLSP 1, RSP 1, IUML 2, TDP 4, JK National Conference 2, and Kerala Congress (M) 1.

Among 'others', Mamata Banerjee-led Trinamool Congress could get 26 seats, Samajwadi Party 20, Mayawati's BSP 15, YSR Congress 19, Telangana Rashtra Samithi 16, Biju Janata Dal 13, AIADMK 10, AMMK 4, Left Front 8, Aam Aadmi Party 2, AIUDF 2, PDP 1, JVM (P) 1 and AIMIM 1.

State wise break up of seat prediction is: Uttar Pradesh: BJP 40, BSP 15, SP 20, Congress 2, RLD 2, Apna Dal 1; Uttarakhand: BJP 4, Congress 1; Rajasthan: BJP 15, Congress 10; West Bengal: Trinamool Congress 26, BJP 10, Congress 2, Left Front 4; Odisha: Biju Janata Dal 13, BJP 8; Madhya Pradesh: BJP 18, Congress 11; Chhattisgarh: BJP 5, Congress 6; Punjab: Congress 7, Akali Dal 5, AAP 1; Haryana: BJP 8, Congress 2; Bihar: BJP 13, RJD 10, JD(U) 11, Congress 2, LJP 3, RLSP 1; Jharkhand: BJP 7, JMM 4, Congress 2, JVM(P) 1; Gujarat : BJP 24, Congress 2; Himachal Pradesh: BJP 4; Maharashtra: BJP 22, Shiv Sena 8, Congress 9, NCP 9; Goa: BJP 1, Congress 1; Tamil Nadu: DMK 21, AIADMK 10, AMMK 4, Congress 3, PMK 1;A Andhra Pradesh: YSR Congress 19, TDP 4, Congress 2; Telangana: Telangana Rashtra Samithi 16, AIMIM 1; Karnataka: BJP 15, Congress 9, JD(S) 4; Kerala: Congress 8, Left Front 5, IUML 2, BJP 1, KC(M) 1, RSP 1, Independent 2; Jammu & Kashmir: BJP 2, NC 2, Congress 1, PDP 1; Assam: BJP 12, AIUDF 2; Arunachal Pradesh: BJP 2; Mizoram: MNF 1; Manipur: BJP 2; Meghalaya: Congress 1, NPP 1; Tripura: BJP 1, CPI(M) 1; Nagaland: NDPP 1, NPF 1; Sikkim: SDF 1; Delhi: BJP 5, AAP 1, Congress 1; Chandigarh: BJP 1; Andaman & Nicobar: BJP 1; Dadra, Nagar Haveli: BJP1; Daman & Diu: BJP 1; Lakshadweep: Congress 1; Puducherry: INRC 1.

According to the release, research and survey agency CNX gave 54,300 respondents structured questionnaire across 543 parliamentary constituencies, covering 1,086 assembly constituencies, with an average of 100 respondents in each Lok Sabha constituency. Those interviewed included 27,832 males and 26,408 females in the age group 18 to 60 years.

The survey, the release said, covered both residential and business areas, remote and key localities, including upper middle class colonies. It said that the sample respondents came from all walks of life, including cobblers, tailors, barbers, daily wage labourers, small shopkeepers, mechanics, medical practitioners, auto-taxi drivers and real estate dealers.

The next Lok Sabha elections would be held in April-May
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...ition-survey-majority-mark-1424677-2019-01-06

 

[ranjeet]

@padamchen
When was the map for metro 3 was passed? which government was in the power in the state and in the centre?

 

[padamchen]

@padamchen
When was the map for metro 3 was passed? which government was in the power in the state and in the centre?

You are missing the point here.

This is not political.

This is a growing resntmeres of Parsis by Hindus.

And alienation of Parsis from Hindus.

It comes from lower non fighting non priestly classes.

It's the class war that is b4ewing in India.

Only it's religious here because Parsis are so small that they are looked at *** homogeneous rich Jewish tribe of colluders, collaborators, traders and big business owners, who have been oppressing and profiting off of the native populace for centuries in spite of beiñg refuge on their soil.

So politically incorrect and nasty of them to have become rich and given back to the land in return. In both blood and treasure.

I'm not trolling sanghis here. Those present and those from other strategic forums reading in.

I'm a well entrenched well adjusted and well çomnected Parsi Indian telling you what it is on the ground with Parsis in the sea of Hindus.

Cheers, Doc

Let me be specific:

1. Questioning another Indian citizen's legitimacy as a citizen because of his or her religion;
2. ....or caste
3. ....or political belief
4. ....or language
5. ....or his or her opposition to the Indian constitution, the Indian state or Indian institutions
6. ....or choice of diet, eating habits and having eaten beef or planning to eat beef
7. ....or adherence to a system of personal law currently at variance with the personal law of others
8. ....or refusal to acknowledge symbols of the Indian state, or symbolical actions, due to religious inhibitions

is an attack on that questioned citizen's constitutional rights, is hateful, is divisive and is directly in opposition to the principles on which India was founded.

Before being misunderstood - other than you, others are reading this, and they are all too ready to distort things and produce a monster where there is reason - let it be very clearly understood that for #5, questioning the citizenship of the person concerned is illegitimate; criticising that person's beliefs opposing the constitution, the state or institutions is not. Attack his, or her beliefs, not that person's citizenship of India.

On #7, once it is law, based on a fair and open debate and an effort to incorporate the views of those affected, there is no question of opposition. But to ram it down people's throats, without discussion, without an effort to hear the opposed point of view, is wrong.

On #8, I am opposed to the relentless hypocrisy of those who try to make anything and everything a loyalty test, the anything not being random, but carefully selected to offend a segment of the people whom they don't like. BJP legislators who want citizens to sing Vande Mataram, used ironically by the Congress as its rallying cry during the struggle for independence, are themselves unable to sing it.



It means that I can't say a thing like,"All Muslim Indians should stop eating beef since it is against the religious traditions of the majority", and pretend that it is my own sincere belief. It is something that I am doing in order to fit in, and to please those who would otherwise scream at me for being a Jayachand.

The sentence might have been written under the influence of alcohol! How do you know it wasn't?

Nice post.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Nilgiri]

Only it's religious here because Parsis are so small that they are looked at *** homogeneous rich Jewish tribe of colluders, collaborators, traders and big business owners, who have been oppressing and profiting off of the native populace for centuries in spite of beiñg refuge on their soil.

Yup...but every society (that hasn't forcibly homogenized itself) has this issue to grapple with more or less. Politicians just exploit it (and embrace and abandon it as they see fit to)...no side really cares to take a morally credible consistent position on it.

Out of interest, because I am ignorant of such things largely, what has the Parsi history been like in India w.r.t owning land?

 

[padamchen]

Yup...but every society (that hasn't forcibly homogenized itself) has this issue to grapple with more or less. Politicians just exploit it (and embrace and abandon it as they see fit to)...no side really cares to take a morally credible consistent position on it.

Out of interest, because I am ignorant of such things largely, what has the Parsi history been like in India w.r.t owning land?

For more than 500 years we were virtually a farming kibbutz in Gujarat.

Till the Muslims attacked. And we had to take up arms again (in spite of the promises made) to protect the land and the fire.

My dad's side are landowners in UP. Were. Then we moved to industry. Mills.

My mom's side were landowners in Gujarat before moving to Mumbai. And becoming big in the British cotton trade.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Nilgiri]

For more than 500 years we were virtually a farming kibbutz in Gujarat.

Till the Muslims attacked. And we had to take up arms again (in spite of the promises made) to protect the land and the fire.

My dad's side are landowners in UP. Were. Then we moved to industry. Mills.

My mom's side were landowners in Gujarat before moving to Mumbai. And becoming big in the British cotton trade.

Cheers, Doc

OK thats one thing you had above the jews in a ton of places they went to (in Europe). They were banned from owning land frequently...which is part of the reason they went into usury and more intellectual urban pursuits from the get go compared to the host populations (at relative level)....and over time certain stereotypes/niches formed as a result of that.

 

[padamchen]

OK thats one thing you had above the jews in a ton of places they went to (in Europe). They were banned from owning land frequently...which is part of the reason they went into usury and more intellectual urban pursuits from the get go compared to the host populations (at relative level)....and over time certain stereotypes/niches formed as a result of that.

We've been rural farmers, no different to our Hindu brethren in Gujarat, for most our stay in India.

We became traders and entered into business mainly after the British came and we built Bombay as a trading port.

From Bombay we spread to British colonial outposts around the world. Burma. Sri Lanka. Africa. China. And of course England itself (not to be confused with post Independence emigration). Mostly as traders and businessmen. Industrialists.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sam.]

Earthquake in UP politics as Ajam Khan says vote for BJP. The foundation of SP has been shaken..

@Nilgiri @Joe Shearer @padamchen @jbgt90 @jamahir

@Soumitra @ranjeet @Yogijaat @JanjaWeed @GHALIB

Video is 2 year old but his feeling are clear for BSP.