Indian Muslims love for Pakistan

[illusion8]

As I said in my post.. they can live together.. as long as the MAJORITY of Muslims are kept subservient.. their history and culture ridiculed.. and them represented in fictional media as either terrorists or second tier citizens.

Subservient to whom? people will challenge them if someone intends to destroy the secular fabric or the constitution and try to carve out a niche under shariah or whatever their belief is - until they keep it limited to their personal lives.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I am friends with a lot of Hindus.. so that is a fail. The question is not of Muslims or Hindus.. its of their leadership. And people follow leadership. A lot of religions have lived with fully religious and practising Muslims..even in India. But that was before religious extremism took over.. and now I wonder how that will fare with the rise of the Internet Hindu and propagation of Hindu extremism.

Of course, you have mentioned that before - I did not mean you, since two messages were quoted by me one after another, it came in one post

On the other hand, if Hindus having pride in being Hindu makes them extremist, I must admit, you are making a mistake.

their history and culture ridiculed.. and them represented in fictional media as either terrorists or second tier citizens.

The culture is Indian and so is the history!

 

[45'22']

As I said in my post.. they can live together.. as long as the MAJORITY of Muslims are kept subservient.. their history and culture ridiculed.. and them represented in fictional media as either terrorists or second tier citizens.

c'mon not all of them are represented as terrorists or second class citizens........
even the muslims in India wont agree to this........

in media..........they are portrayed as gud as well as bad,you chose to see the bad


and subservient to whom????

 

[HariPrasad]

our number one enemy is india.
but the biggest threat we are facing at the moment is internal

Ok.

Especially once the US forces leave Afghanistan and allow the real Talibaan to focus more on.....anti-Muslim activities in the region. I wonder whether the situation would still be interesting for you when the same Nuclear weapon is activated in the city that you reside in.

I am taliking of a situation when Talibans acquire the weapon and not the situation when it is ignited.

If they acquire NW, all the counties of the world will be running around to de nuke Taliban. My statement is not targeted against any Particular country.

 

[janon]

As I said in my post.. they can live together.. as long as the MAJORITY of Muslims are kept subservient.. their history and culture ridiculed.. and them represented in fictional media as either terrorists or second tier citizens.

Sorry, but you are repeating that Pakistani/anti-India canard with no regard to the true state of affairs, which is that nobody in India has the right to ridicule muslim or any other culture.

(Personally I wish that was not true. Nothing should be above ridicule, islamic culture or hindu culture or anything else. People should have full freedom to ridicule anything they want, including gods and prophets of any religion.)

But the fact is that ridiculing islamic or hindu or christian or any other religious culture or sacred icons can land you in prison for "hurting religious sentiments".

About fictional media - Most mainstream media in India do not represent muslims as terrorists or second class citizens. In fact most narratives bend over backwards to ensure that muslim sentiments are not hurt.

I'm sure you can pick some hindu extremist publications that demonize muslims, and vice versa. But the mainstream media does not.

 

[SQ8]

Of course, you have mentioned that before - I did not mean you, since two messages were quoted by me one after another, it came in one post

On the other hand, if Hindus having pride in being Hindu makes them extremist, I must admit, you are making a mistake.

The culture is Indian and so is the history!

Two distinct differences, there is pride in being Hindu.. I have a friend who takes great pains to explains the merits of Hinduism.. but does not consider Muslims as alien to his land. The extremism I refer to is targeted highlighting of Muslims as alien and outcasts.

The Culture is Indian.. Hinduism is a religion.. but it also had a culture within in. The same way.. there are Hindu-Muslims who have a unique identity within the subcontinent. There are elements of the culture of the land within it, and adherence to their religion as well.

Subservient to whom? people will challenge them if someone intends to destroy the secular fabric or the constitution and try to carve out a niche under shariah or whatever their belief is - until they keep it limited to their personal lives.

Its not the constitution that is involved when Muslims are targeted as Alien.. at one end there is the assertion that Muslims are part of the Indian union and then there is the testament that they are essentially against the Indian constitution. Which is it?

 

[Lil Mathew]

Yup, Muslims and Hindus can live together as long as Indian Muslims are second tier and generally subservient to the Hindu Majority.

how you conclude like this?? have you ever been in india?? with what experience you said it?? I myself is a minority(christian) and travelled and stayed a number of places in india.. but never felt a thing like that.. every one here have same oppertunities( minorities have reservations also)... no matter you are hindu muslim christian you can travel, stay,study, work etc.. I admit there are some extremism and communal riots are there... but that are very very very rare..
just use your common sense.. if you have any point then only hindu parties will win elections.. every parties including BJP saying they are secular.. why the pm candidate Narendra Modi desperately trying to make secular image... he is only asking vote for development and anti corruption not hindu votes... in majority states the main parties are reguonal ones with high secular base...

 

[illusion8]

Two distinct differences, there is pride in being Hindu.. I have a friend who takes great pains to explains the merits of Hinduism.. but does not consider Muslims as alien to his land. The extremism I refer to is targeted highlighting of Muslims as alien and outcasts.

The Culture is Indian.. Hinduism is a religion.. but it also had a culture within in. The same way.. there are Hindu-Muslims who have a unique identity within the subcontinent. There are elements of the culture of the land within it, and adherence to their religion as well.



Its not the constitution that is involved when Muslims are targeted as Alien.. at one end there is the assertion that Muslims are part of the Indian union and then there is the testament that they are essentially against the Indian constitution. Which is it?

Islam as a religion challenges a democratic / secular constitution and it's teachings is contrary to that - so it's a question that a Muslim needs to answer or accept whether he gives more importance to the land's constitution and beliefs or considers his Islamic belief as of primary concern.

The constitution does not differentiate between any religion. The issue arises when theories like the two nation theory or the demand for shariah or to be considered as some special group or try to propagate an alien culture and beliefs in a democratic setup that challenges the laws of the land. This issue is not exclusive to India but to many non Muslim countries as well where muslim groups are demanding separate set of laws for themselves that conflicts directly with the laws of the land they reside in.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Two distinct differences, there is pride in being Hindu.. I have a friend who takes great pains to explains the merits of Hinduism.. but does not consider Muslims as alien to his land. The extremism I refer to is targeted highlighting of Muslims as alien and outcasts.

The Culture is Indian.. Hinduism is a religion.. but it also had a culture within in. The same way.. there are Hindu-Muslims who have a unique identity within the subcontinent. There are elements of the culture of the land within it, and adherence to their religion as well.

Its not the constitution that is involved when Muslims are targeted as Alien.. at one end there is the assertion that Muslims are part of the Indian union and then there is the testament that they are essentially against the Indian constitution. Which is it?

If everyone in India thought like you - India would not be in such turmoil. I agree with your POV, so no differences there

 

[SQ8]

Sorry, but you are repeating that Pakistani/anti-India canard with no regard to the true state of affairs, which is that nobody in India has the right to ridicule muslim or any other culture.

(Personally I wish that was not true. Nothing should be above ridicule, islamic culture or hindu culture or anything else. People should have full freedom to ridicule anything they want, including gods and prophets of any religion.)

But the fact is that ridiculing islamic or hindu or christian or any other religious culture or sacred icons can land you in prison for "hurting religious sentiments".

About fictional media - Most mainstream media in India do not represent muslims as terrorists or second class citizens. In fact most narratives bend over backwards to ensure that muslim sentiments are not hurt.

I'm sure you can pick some hindu extremist publications that demonize muslims, and vice versa. But the mainstream media does not.

Your statement is self contradictory.. first you said that no one in India has the right to ridicule Muslims.. yet you are saying that hindu extremist publications exist that do demonize Muslims.At the same time, extremist teachings are allowed to come out of seminaries in various Indian states and the like Clearly they are not arrested.. so is the law based on selective interpretation for the benefit of political parties? Say where pro Hindu parties such as BJP are.. it ignores the Hindu extremists.. where the congress is.. it plays on gaining sympathy votes..

 

[janon]

Your statement is self contradictory.. first you said that no one in India has the right to ridicule Muslims.. yet you are saying that hindu extremist publications exist that do demonize Muslims.At the same time, extremist teachings are allowed to come out of seminaries in various Indian states and the like Clearly they are not arrested.. so is the law based on selective interpretation for the benefit of political parties? Say where pro Hindu parties such as BJP are.. it ignores the Hindu extremists.. where the congress is.. it plays on gaining sympathy votes..

The very fact that I called them "extremists" goes to show that they are a negligibly small minority, and that they are doing something beyond the law.

Please tell me, in which mainstream publications in any media - print or electronic or other - do you see muslims being ridiculed? Nowhere. It is not possible in India to make fun of any religion, religious group or religious beliefs, without incurring severe legal penalties. You only need to check out the number of books and films that have been banned for "hurting religious sentiments", to know the truth of that statement.

When I said that there may be hindu extremist publications that do so, I meant that there could be small groups that circulate such material in their publications among their readership. Of course I don't personally know of any, not being a subscriber to any such publication. There have also been christian and muslim publications that have ridiculed hindu beliefs and gods, and fomented social unrest.

But that is not unique to India, is it? Just a few days back, a video was posted on this forum, from a group in Pakistan singing songs about shias being kafirs and justifying attacks on them to stop their kuffar, and flying the flags of SSP and LeJ openly. I can assure you, that amount of hatred, openly encouraging a certain religion or sect to be killed off, would not be tolerated in India. Which is why I admitted the possibility that there could be hindu extremist groups that publish anti muslim pamphlets - but for one thing, they do not have any social acceptability in India, and two, even they do not openly exhort massacre of muslims or a sect.

See, the point is that all this is a matter of degree. Can I say that there is not a single Indian who is very anti-muslim, or wants to see all muslims killed or being subservient? No, I cannot assert that, because there may be a few. But your own assertion that in India muslims are treated as second class citizens and that their culture and history is ridiculed, is completely untrue as a general statement.

 

[HariPrasad]

To someone who cannot even spell the word, little would make it!

But that word was copped from your writing since I do not ever use this sort of word.

Using guerilla tactics for urban warfare is, well, a little different then tactics to infiltrate a supremely heavily guarded facilities where NW are stored and still different in the use of that same weapon.

The magnitude of 'a little' in the scenario above can be explained by others.

They have already proved their ability to penetrate heavily guarded facilities not once, not twice but numbers of times.

 

[SQ8]

See, the point is that all this is a matter of degree. Can I say that there is not a single Indian who is very anti-muslim, or wants to see all muslims killed or being subservient? No, I cannot assert that, because there may be a few. But your own assertion that in India muslims are treated as second class citizens and that their culture and history is ridiculed, is completely untrue as a general statement.

But that is not unique to India, is it? Just a few days back, a video was posted on this forum, from a group in Pakistan singing songs about shias being kafirs and justifying attacks on them to stop their kuffar, and flying the flags of SSP and LeJ openly. I can assure you, that amount of hatred, openly encouraging a certain religion or sect to be killed off, would not be tolerated in India. Which is why I admitted the possibility that there could be hindu extremist groups that publish anti muslim pamphlets - but for one thing, they do not have any social acceptability in India, and two, even they do not openly exhort massacre of muslims or a sect.

See, the point is that all this is a matter of degree. Can I say that there is not a single Indian who is very anti-muslim, or wants to see all muslims killed or being subservient? No, I cannot assert that, because there may be a few. But your own assertion that in India muslims are treated as second class citizens and that their culture and history is ridiculed, is completely untrue as a general statement.

Old articles.. but all very respected sources. Again, the fate of Pakistan or Pakistani Muslims has little to do with the Muslims in India. Pakistan is already declared itself constitutionally bigoted in interpretation and openly gives second class treatment to minorities. the same is not supposed to be true in India.
India’s Muslims: Growing, and neglected | The Economist
'Why are we treated as second class citizens?' - The Times of India

And the most interesting one... again.. I dont want to dither too much so Ill move these posts to the Indian Muslims section..
06muslimproblem

 

[Vinod2070]

Old articles.. but all very respected sources. Again, the fate of Pakistan or Pakistani Muslims has little to do with the Muslims in India. Pakistan is already declared itself constitutionally bigoted in interpretation and openly gives second class treatment to minorities. the same is not supposed to be true in India.
India’s Muslims: Growing, and neglected | The Economist
'Why are we treated as second class citizens?' - The Times of India

And the most interesting one... again.. I dont want to dither too much so Ill move these posts to the Indian Muslims section..
06muslimproblem

Some good points. Issue is that our intentions are good but it is not easy being final and perfect in the environment we are having to deal with.

A much better solution should have been found at partition time once the Muslims decided they can't live with kaffirs and become a separate nation as soon as they convert and start sharing more with distant Arabs and Somalians than with someone next door who may share a surname and has lived together for milienia.

I am not sure any amount of whatever we do will change that. It will never satisfy people who can never be satisfied and don't want to be satisfied.

 

[illusion8]

Old articles.. but all very respected sources. Again, the fate of Pakistan or Pakistani Muslims has little to do with the Muslims in India. Pakistan is already declared itself constitutionally bigoted in interpretation and openly gives second class treatment to minorities. the same is not supposed to be true in India.
India’s Muslims: Growing, and neglected | The Economist
'Why are we treated as second class citizens?' - The Times of India

And the most interesting one... again.. I dont want to dither too much so Ill move these posts to the Indian Muslims section..
06muslimproblem

Second class treatment is a matter of choice (the choice that one them self makes to remain in a sphere) - many from all groups have risen way above the average population and there are numerous examples all over India.

Why expect to be treated as something special or to be treated as separate?

There are numerous other minorities in India that do well - way better than the average - Sindhi's, Sikhs, Christians, Parsi's, Jains, Tibetans, Bori's - they do well in income, entrepreneurship, education etc. They never asked to be treated as special - they saw the opportunity and took advantage of it and no one stopped them. No one will stop Muslims too if they attempt to.