Indian democracy loses to Chinese efficiency - by 160 votes

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Look at the dates, a good portion of these attacks by the USA happened AFTER the cold war and a good portion of the people who were overthrown were not communists, just politicians who wanted to build up the country so that their people could live better lives.

The USA does whatever is in its best interest without any regard to international law against countries incapable of fighting back. Thats all the USA is, a big bully.

Communism and drugs, I dont see the problem, lot of half truths and lies, the USA provided aid for the side against both.

 

[chauism]

Communism and drugs, I dont see the problem, lot of half truths and lies, the USA provided aid for the side against both.

What does that make USA to be then? I think the word for that is warmonger and merchant of death, and the lowest of its kind.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Communism and drugs, I dont see the problem, lot of half truths and lies, the USA provided aid for the side against both.

Really? Lets look at one of the democratically elected leaders that the USA put out of power

Jean-Bertrand Aristide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2004 Haitian rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aristide foresees that his departure was a kidnapping. He said the U.S. had orchestrated a coup d'état against him, and received support from, among others, several members of the U.S. congress and Jamaican Prime Minister P. J. Patterson.[1] Aristide was forced into exile, being flown directly out of Haiti to the Central African Republic,[1] eventually settling in South Africa.

"[After] early 1994 . . . Washington’s negotiators made one demand that Aristide could not accept: the immediate selloff of Haiti’s state-owned enterprises, including phones and electricity. Aristide argued that unregulated privatization would transform state monopolies into private oligarchies, increasing the riches of Haiti’s elite and stripping the poor of their national wealth."[2]

Under Aristide's leadership, his party implemented many major reforms. These included greatly increasing access to health care and education for the general population; increasing adult literacy and protections for those accused of crimes; improving training for judges, prohibiting human trafficking, disbanding the Haitian military (which primarily had been used against the Haitian people), establishing improved human rights and political freedoms; doubling the minimum wage; instituting land reform and assistance to small farmers;, providing boat construction training to fishermen; establishing a food distribution network to provide low cost food to the poor at below market prices, building low-cost housing, and attempting to reduce the level of government corruption.[

So why is this Haitian man living in exile in South Africa? Because the USA kidnapped him and dumped him there because he wanted to hurt USA multinationals in order to help his starving people.

Pray tell where do the communism and drugs come into play?

 

[chauism]

There's plenty wrong. He was responding to a point that democracy is bad for poorly educated people with the idea that democracy is not just for elites. Implication that education is only for elites.

Not only that but his idea that a worker's strike is abusing democracy is wrong. Methinks his idea is not to restrict strikes only to essential services like police, but to find strikes in general as abuse of democracy or else he would not have made such a bold statement.

The price of democracy is smashed windows and burning cars whenever people get pissed off. People like Joe don't realize this so they rant and rave about people who abuse democracy, when the only true abuse of democracy is tyranny of the majority.

I don't think that he implicated anything like education is for elite. You might want to read his word again.

Also what he really meant is that even though sometimes people abuse their rights such as strike and demonstration which happens a lot in developing countries, they right to abuse should still be respected in a democracy.

Dear Sir,

I disagree completely.

Democracy is not the prerogative of the elite. It is the people's right. And the people we would restrict from participation in democracy are not the ones which demonstrate and which misuse democracy through protests and strikes.

There is more, much, much more to be said, but this is as good a place as any, at which to stop.

Sincerely,

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

We have to teach Cpt. America a new tune. Even a simple radio has tuning knobs.

Well when it comes to re-education, its hard to beat the Chinese


Thursday, August 14, 2008

Amnesty International: Quarter million Chinese
in 're-education' camps

China continues to hold in detention thousands of political prisoners, a senior Amnesty International official said recently.


“There are over 250,000 people detained in labor camps called reeducation through labor,” said T. Kumar, Amnesty’s USA rights specialist on China.
Under the political prison system, “anyone can be imprisoned, without any charge or trial, by a local police officer.”

“That system is extremely abusive. And a local police officer can, without any judicial authority, imprison anyone at their whim for up to four years,” he said.
Religious freedom doesn't exist in China, he said. “People don't have independence of judiciary or press freedom there. Political prisoners have been executed in the province of Xinjiang. And people have been tortured, imprisoned. And hundreds have died as a result of that. China executes more people than the rest of the world combined,” Kumar said

If you dont have a strong stomach dont go here.Chinese army 'harvesting body parts'


Agence France-Presse
Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:27 EST

China's military is harvesting organs from unwilling live prison inmates, mostly Falungong practitioners, for transplants on a large scale - including to foreign recipients- according to a study
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249622,00.html

 

[jeypore]

This is my first time posting. Right after I read this article, I have did a lot of search of this debate online, but to my surprise, even though this debate took place in London, there is no any western new sources that write about this event. Only Indian news outlets are publishing it. So I am just wondering if any of you have any insight to it.

I know there is this great debate about Democracy and the Chinese efficiency, But that Chinese efficiency came about by great western Democracy. Figure that!!!

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Really? Lets look at one of the democratically elected leaders that the USA put out of power

Jean-Bertrand Aristide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2004 Haitian rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Heres another point of view, but man compared to what the Chinese have done and are still doing, I think I would worry about more things closer to home.

So why is this Haitian man living in exile in South Africa? Because the USA kidnapped him and dumped him there because he wanted to hurt USA multinationals in order to help his starving people.

Pray tell where do the communism and drugs come into play?

Heres another point of view, but man compared to what the Chinese have done and are still doing, I think I would worry about more things closer to home.

Inflicting Aristide ? and More Pain ? on Haiti

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Heres another point of view, but man compared to what the Chinese have done and are still doing, I think I would worry about more things closer to home.

Inflicting Aristide ? and More Pain ? on Haiti

China executes 1,400 people a year

USA has 2.4 million people inprisoned

USA has killed 106,000 people in Iraq + 12969 People in Afghanistan

The sad thing is THESE PEOPLE WERE KILLED FOR BEING BORN IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY

WHILE THE PEOPLE IN CHINA GET KILLED FOR COMMITTING CRIMES WHERE THE PUNISHMENT IS CLEARLY DEFINED TO THE OFFENDER BEFOREHAND.

It would take China 100+ years of execution to equal the slaughter in Iraq.

Not to mention all the houses destroyed, all the children orphaned, all the mutated little DU babies.

What did these people do? why are they being punished by the USA? What is their crime? Being born in Iraq.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

China executes 1,400 people a year

USA has 2.4 million people inprisoned

USA has killed 106,000 people in Iraq + 12969 People in Afghanistan

The sad thing is THESE PEOPLE WERE KILLED FOR BEING BORN IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY

WHILE THE PEOPLE IN CHINA GET KILLED FOR COMMITTING CRIMES WHERE THE PUNISHMENT IS CLEARLY DEFINED TO THE OFFENDER BEFOREHAND.

It would take China 100+ years of execution to equal the slaughter in Iraq.

Not to mention all the houses destroyed, all the children orphaned, all the mutated little DU babies.

What did these people do? why are they being punished by the USA? What is their crime? Being born in Iraq.

In the USA people commit crime they have a trial and go to prison in China any police official can send you to prision for 4 years.

Afghanstan and Iraq are wars.
People do get killed in wars, houses do get blowen up.

DU is only slightly radioactive - far less than uranium itself - but it is also chemically toxic, and scientists are divided about whether the combination poses a serious or remote health risk to soldiers and civilians who come in contact with it or inhale its dust.

I think we know what happen to these muslems dont we.

10000 Uighurs disappeared during unrest in China, exiled leader ...
Jul 29, 2009 ... Rebiya Kadeer says undercover snatch squads targeted Uighurs during Urumqi clashes Rebiya Kadeer says undercover snatch squads targeted ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/29/uighur-leader-japan-tokyo-china

Book Review -- Laogai-The Chinese Gulag
And they are spread among four to six thousand labor camps distributed throughout all the provinces of China. Thanks to Professor Wu, we now have a detailed ...
www.fff.org/freedom/0193d.asp


I just hope the Chinese dont use them for body parts too.

and you seem to be getting a little hysterical, settle down.

I can see why China is engaging in censorship.. This is disgusting.

 

[Brotherhood]

In the USA people commit crime they have a trial and go to prison in China any police official can send you to prision for 4 years.

Afghanstan and Iraq are wars.
People do get killed in wars, houses do get blowen up.

DU is only slightly radioactive - far less than uranium itself - but it is also chemically toxic, and scientists are divided about whether the combination poses a serious or remote health risk to soldiers and civilians who come in contact with it or inhale its dust.
(Yes, thats right, way to go, where did you copy it from?)
I think we know what happen to these muslems dont we.

10000 Uighurs disappeared during unrest in China, exiled leader ...
Jul 29, 2009 ... Rebiya Kadeer says undercover snatch squads targeted Uighurs during Urumqi clashes Rebiya Kadeer says undercover snatch squads targeted ...
10,000 Uighurs disappeared during unrest in China, exiled leader claims | World news | The Guardian

I just hope the Chinese dont use them for body parts too.

and you seem to be getting a little hysterical, settle down.

Oh pretty please, stop using your own words, keep copying others posts, at least it made some sense. You are one hell of an "American"

 

[NWO]

The real reason for China's economic success is the reforms since 1978 which have slowly been turning China into a free-market economy. Its not because of the government. Many other one party governments do not enjoy the success of China, such as Cuba. The difference is that China has been moving towards a free-market while Cuba hasn't.

This is one of the reasons why countries in the West are so successful. Because of free-market. Great Britain has been historically known for its free trade. The US has been a free-market economy since 1776.

You guys are debating the wrong thing. You should be focusing on the economic policy, not the political policy. Yes, they are related but not as much as you think. China is a communist country with a free-market economy, while US is Constitutional Republic with a increasingly socialistic economy.

 

[mike05]

I know there is this great debate about Democracy and the Chinese efficiency, But that Chinese efficiency came about by great western Democracy. Figure that!!!

This assumption is groundless, China has long been known for being efficient due to the structure of its society, there's a book (Gunpower by Clive Ponting) which shows that weapons manufacturers in ancient China was capable of mass production with good quality control. (Also the terracotta warriors in Xi'an have similar QC)

In addition if you look at the structures built i.e the Great wall it totals 15,000 km which country can build something similar without have a efficient bureaucrat in place. (This is not a building mind you)

Thats why China was able to integrate manufacturing as its main platform early on, of course QC was far off from what it was in the early days till what it is today.

Hence I disagree that efficiency was because of Western Democracy because the framework was already in place. That said Western world did provide technological advancement which allowed for a host of other benefits.

 

[mike05]

Good post, Mike.

It's definitely something to think about.

Thanks mate

 

[below_freezing]

per capita, US and our execution rates are similar. nowhere near the stupidity of iran and saudi arabia.

also, what is an execution? the black man shot by police for reaching for his wallet, is he executed? meanwhile in china our police do not even carry guns.

??????63???????????????-???? ??

A women takes off her pants and hits a police officer repeatedly resulting in him losing consciousness. the police officer had several opportunities to restrain her but chose not to for fear of hurting her.

If this happened in the US, that woman would be in a coffin. After all, assaulting a police officer is punishable by summary execution in the US and all the officer does is write a report. Luckily she was in China where she will be released after some fines and a few days in jail. In fact she is not even charged with "assaulting a police officer".

 

[chauism]

per capita, US and our execution rates are similar. nowhere near the stupidity of iran and saudi arabia.

also, what is an execution? the black man shot by police for reaching for his wallet, is he executed? meanwhile in china our police do not even carry guns.

??????63???????????????-???? ??

A women takes off her pants and hits a police officer repeatedly resulting in him losing consciousness. the police officer had several opportunities to restrain her but chose not to for fear of hurting her.

If this happened in the US, that woman would be in a coffin. After all, assaulting a police officer is punishable by summary execution in the US and all the officer does is write a report. Luckily she was in China where she will be released after some fines and a few days in jail. In fact she is not even charged with "assaulting a police officer".

That is nothing man.

A man was able to kill 6 polices and wound another 4 with just a knife inside of police station after he threw 8 Molotov cocktails in front of the station. He came out almost without a scratch.

If it is in US, he would not even able to inflict that much casualties in a police station even with a machine gun, let alone come out alive.
Six police dead in knife attack in Shanghai_English_Xinhua