Indian Army's Muslim headcount: 3%

[bluefox]

such a love that the hindus said, ok, we will gladly let you die first then us hindus second??

OK so the Pakistani army Killed all the indian Army Muslims first then they massacared all the hindus in Indian army and in the end proudly lost the war...

 

[Kinetic]

Well even 3pc is admirable. At least it shows there is "equal opportunity".

Actually the situation is difficult. The truth is Muslims in India are reluctant to join armed forces. On the other hand percentage of Sikhs are more compared to other religions. Its not like Muslims don't have chances. Same goes to some of the regions/states from those headcounts in IA are less.

There were some Muslims at high posts at IA. I remember just few days ago have seen a Muslim Maj Gen of IA giving some awards in a function.

You can look at the highest posts of India...... President mean supreme commander of Indian armed forces.....

1) Current Vice-president is a Muslim.
2) Previous President was a Muslim.

Other facts,

3) Current President is a woman.
4) Current Prime Minister is a Sikh.

 

[gubbi]

Why are we making a big deal about a speculative media report (probably based on a small sample) about the minorities in the IA? The report is NOT official and neither will anyone from IA will give out any details regarding such matter. The media outlet just came up with a report (whatever sampling method they might have used) when some fecked up dude in US accused IA of bias in recruiting minorities, way back in 2007/2008!

 

[KS]

IA soldiers during the Kargil war of 1999.

Please these Muslims are also Indians as much as I am...and IA is one of the finest institutions in the country and any attempt to malign its namre by bringing in religion will be met with staunch resistance..atleast by me...

 

[LaBong]

I think an article by a retired Indian army colonel can shed some light on the issue. Sorry I'm not able to post the link because of my negligible post count.


After its projects to change Indian history to 'secular' history, the United Progressive Alliance [ Images ] govt seems to have launched a project to make the army 'secular'.
The Indian Army [ Images ] is an apolitical, professional body that is extremely proud of its dharma of loyalty to the nation and its Constitution. It does not believe in practising discrimination on the basis of religion, caste or colour.

I felt a tremendous sense of pride when at an Independence Day function in Pune in 2002 (in the aftermath of the horrible Gujarat riots) Qutubuddin Ansari, the tailor from Ahmedabad [ Images ] who became famous as the face of that tragedy, told me it was the Indian Army's timely arrival that had saved him and his family.

In an emotion choked voice, he said throughout his life he would pray for the success of the Indian Army. Many officers and men have told me how Muslims greeted the army's arrival by showering them with flowers. The army's impartial conduct in quelling riots is a matter of great pride to all soldiers.

'We are an apolitical and secular force'

The Indian Army is a traditional force and many battalions are organised on the basis of regions and caste. Thus we have the Sikh regiment, the Marathas, the Gorkhas etc. But this does not apply at the officer level. So it is no surprise to see a Mohammed Zaki commanding Garhwali troops or a Y N Sharma as commanding officer of the Grenadiers(which incidentally has Muslim soldiers).

As head of the family, which is what a commanding officer is, it is common for Zaki to conduct the puja on Janmashtami, celebrating the birth of Lord Krishna, or for Sharma to lead the namaz on Id Ul Fitr after Ramzan.

Faced with an insurgency in Kashmir [ Images ] that freely uses religion as a motivating factor, the army has has constructed combined prayer halls, called Sarva Dharma Sthal ( All Religion Place of Worship) where you have all the gods and symbols of all religions under one roof. These can be found at in Anantnag in Kashmir and even in Pune.

It is undoubtedly true that the number of Muslims in the Army is less than their proportion in the population. This is a historical legacy as the recruitment of Muslims in the armed forces in pre-Independence India was concentrated in Punjab [ Images ], North West Frontier and Balochistan, all part of Pakistan today.

A similar argument can be also made on the basis of region. The states of Orissa or Gujarat or even Andhra Pradesh are not represented in proportion to their population. To assume any bias on this basis is to see evil where none exists.

The all-wise Sachar Committee has initiated an exercise that is fraught with great danger as it hits at the very notion of fair play. The basis on which this exercise is being carried out is a book by an American citizen, Omar Khalidi, (Khaki and Ethnic Violence in India). Khalidi works at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the United States. As a matter of record, he had got in touch with me about two years ago seeking data on the Indian Army. It is another matter that seeing his intention, I and my colleagues refused any cooperation. But he obviously has won over Sachar and party.

We ought to smell a *** when the Sachar Committee approvingly quotes from Khalidi's book and makes it as the basis for its 'work.'

What every soldier finds most objectionable in the exercise is Sachar's notion of equating the armed forces with any other department of the central government. Could Mr Sachar please tell us in which other organisation is dying for the country part of the 'job'?

The committee also had the gall to say that the army made 'unnecessary fuss about this on grounds of regimental spirit and cohesion.' Do the Sachar committee members realise that the two factors -- regimental spirit and cohesion -- are the very soul of any army?

These are the factors that bind soldiers and officers to each other. People sacrifice their lives on the battlefield for the izzat (respect) of the regiment and save their comrades at the risk of their own lives.

Without these an army is merely a mob of armed violent men which would melt at the first sign of danger. When someone terms this as 'frivolous', it betrays a mindset that is not merely stupid, but dangerous.

Diary: Soldiers' God

Finally, a word about desertion during Hyderabad action (in 1948-1949) and Turtuk problem during the Kargil operations in 1999.

During the Hyderabad action, the Indian Army was in process of division between India and Pakistan on grounds of religion. To call these acts as desertion would label the entire Pakistani army as 'deserters.'

During the Kargil [ Images ] operations, the small population of Turtuk area was a complex issue. This area, right till 1971, was part of Pakistan and was captured during that war. The area had many ex-soldiers of the Pakistani army, still receiving pension. To expect them to become pro-India was not fair. So what was proposed (possibly) during the Kargil war, was not evacuation of Muslims, but evacuation of ex-Pakistanis from a sensitive battle zone. Are there any such reports regarding the Muslim population of Kargil, Dras etc?

Many former and serving soldiers believe that this data collection is the thin end of the wedge of introducing religion or caste-based reservations in the armed forces.

The Sachar Committee's bias has been clearly shown by their reliance on foreign research. It is time the government prohibits the Sachar Committee from dealing with the armed forces.

This does not mean that the government should not ask the army to conduct an exercise as to why the proportion of Muslims or Christians or Gujaratis is less in the armed forces.

Finally a counter question to the Sachar Committee: What is the proportion of Muslim employees in Muslim-owned companies like Wipro [ Get Quote ] and Cipla? If it is less than their proportion in population, do we take it that the Muslim owners of these companies are also against the minorities?

Is there no limit to 'vote bank' politics, for the sake of which a government is prepared to destroy the efficiency and cohesion of its armed forces and jeopardise the nation's security?

 

[footmarks]

I think an article by a retired Indian army colonel can shed some light on the issue. Sorry I'm not able to post the link because of my negligible post count.


After its projects to change Indian history to 'secular' history, the United Progressive Alliance [ Images ] govt seems to have launched a project to make the army 'secular'.
The Indian Army [ Images ] is an apolitical, professional body that is extremely proud of its dharma of loyalty to the nation and its Constitution. It does not believe in practising discrimination on the basis of religion, caste or colour.

I felt a tremendous sense of pride when at an Independence Day function in Pune in 2002 (in the aftermath of the horrible Gujarat riots) Qutubuddin Ansari, the tailor from Ahmedabad [ Images ] who became famous as the face of that tragedy, told me it was the Indian Army's timely arrival that had saved him and his family.

In an emotion choked voice, he said throughout his life he would pray for the success of the Indian Army. Many officers and men have told me how Muslims greeted the army's arrival by showering them with flowers. The army's impartial conduct in quelling riots is a matter of great pride to all soldiers.

'We are an apolitical and secular force'

The Indian Army is a traditional force and many battalions are organised on the basis of regions and caste. Thus we have the Sikh regiment, the Marathas, the Gorkhas etc. But this does not apply at the officer level. So it is no surprise to see a Mohammed Zaki commanding Garhwali troops or a Y N Sharma as commanding officer of the Grenadiers(which incidentally has Muslim soldiers).

As head of the family, which is what a commanding officer is, it is common for Zaki to conduct the puja on Janmashtami, celebrating the birth of Lord Krishna, or for Sharma to lead the namaz on Id Ul Fitr after Ramzan.

Faced with an insurgency in Kashmir [ Images ] that freely uses religion as a motivating factor, the army has has constructed combined prayer halls, called Sarva Dharma Sthal ( All Religion Place of Worship) where you have all the gods and symbols of all religions under one roof. These can be found at in Anantnag in Kashmir and even in Pune.

It is undoubtedly true that the number of Muslims in the Army is less than their proportion in the population. This is a historical legacy as the recruitment of Muslims in the armed forces in pre-Independence India was concentrated in Punjab [ Images ], North West Frontier and Balochistan, all part of Pakistan today.

A similar argument can be also made on the basis of region. The states of Orissa or Gujarat or even Andhra Pradesh are not represented in proportion to their population. To assume any bias on this basis is to see evil where none exists.

The all-wise Sachar Committee has initiated an exercise that is fraught with great danger as it hits at the very notion of fair play. The basis on which this exercise is being carried out is a book by an American citizen, Omar Khalidi, (Khaki and Ethnic Violence in India). Khalidi works at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in the United States. As a matter of record, he had got in touch with me about two years ago seeking data on the Indian Army. It is another matter that seeing his intention, I and my colleagues refused any cooperation. But he obviously has won over Sachar and party.

We ought to smell a *** when the Sachar Committee approvingly quotes from Khalidi's book and makes it as the basis for its 'work.'

What every soldier finds most objectionable in the exercise is Sachar's notion of equating the armed forces with any other department of the central government. Could Mr Sachar please tell us in which other organisation is dying for the country part of the 'job'?

The committee also had the gall to say that the army made 'unnecessary fuss about this on grounds of regimental spirit and cohesion.' Do the Sachar committee members realise that the two factors -- regimental spirit and cohesion -- are the very soul of any army?

These are the factors that bind soldiers and officers to each other. People sacrifice their lives on the battlefield for the izzat (respect) of the regiment and save their comrades at the risk of their own lives.

Without these an army is merely a mob of armed violent men which would melt at the first sign of danger. When someone terms this as 'frivolous', it betrays a mindset that is not merely stupid, but dangerous.

Diary: Soldiers' God

Finally, a word about desertion during Hyderabad action (in 1948-1949) and Turtuk problem during the Kargil operations in 1999.

During the Hyderabad action, the Indian Army was in process of division between India and Pakistan on grounds of religion. To call these acts as desertion would label the entire Pakistani army as 'deserters.'

During the Kargil [ Images ] operations, the small population of Turtuk area was a complex issue. This area, right till 1971, was part of Pakistan and was captured during that war. The area had many ex-soldiers of the Pakistani army, still receiving pension. To expect them to become pro-India was not fair. So what was proposed (possibly) during the Kargil war, was not evacuation of Muslims, but evacuation of ex-Pakistanis from a sensitive battle zone. Are there any such reports regarding the Muslim population of Kargil, Dras etc?

Many former and serving soldiers believe that this data collection is the thin end of the wedge of introducing religion or caste-based reservations in the armed forces.

The Sachar Committee's bias has been clearly shown by their reliance on foreign research. It is time the government prohibits the Sachar Committee from dealing with the armed forces.

This does not mean that the government should not ask the army to conduct an exercise as to why the proportion of Muslims or Christians or Gujaratis is less in the armed forces.

Finally a counter question to the Sachar Committee: What is the proportion of Muslim employees in Muslim-owned companies like Wipro [ Get Quote ] and Cipla? If it is less than their proportion in population, do we take it that the Muslim owners of these companies are also against the minorities?[/B]

Is there no limit to 'vote bank' politics, for the sake of which a government is prepared to destroy the efficiency and cohesion of its armed forces and jeopardise the nation's security?

The underlined part is a fitting reply for all who are raising an arguement for muslim under representation in IA. No need to carry on this thread any furthur. The question raised is answered here.

 

[anathema]

The Indian Army is a traditional force and many battalions are organised on the basis of regions and caste. Thus we have the Sikh regiment, the Marathas, the Gorkhas etc. But this does not apply at the officer level. So it is no surprise to see a Mohammed Zaki commanding Garhwali troops or a Y N Sharma as commanding officer of the Grenadiers(which incidentally has Muslim soldiers).


Finally a counter question to the Sachar Committee: What is the proportion of Muslim employees in Muslim-owned companies like Wipro [ Get Quote ] and Cipla? If it is less than their proportion in population, do we take it that the Muslim owners of these companies are also against the minorities?

Very interesting -- i never knew that...Incidentally Grenadiers was one of the most important regiments that too part in Kargil war ..Can someone post more information about Grenadiers and the muslim association with it.

 

[Jungibaaz]

The divide between India and Pakistan is NOT Hindu and Muslim.

Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus are Pakistani, Indian Muslims are Indian.

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

Very interesting -- i never knew that...Incidentally Grenadiers was one of the most important regiments that too part in Kargil war ..Can someone post more information about Grenadiers and the muslim association with it.

As far as i know...Grenadiers is the only regiment where people from all over the country can join..there is no selection on the basis of region unlike every other infantry regiment.

Talking about muslims..i think the most number of muslims can be found in the JAKLI regiment..if you remove JAKLI..this % would well come down.

 

[Agent X]

The divide between India and Pakistan is NOT Hindu and Muslim.

Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus are Pakistani, Indian Muslims are Indian.

You need to check history b4 making such post. Religion was the only reason behind all that. Muslims wasn't ready to live in india democratically..... they wanted a separate nation for muslims. mr. jinnah called for "direct action" when he felt they aren't getting a country for muslims and coz of his direct action millions lost their lives he thought muslims can never progress in a hindu majority country i really wish him to be alive i wish he could see indian muslims are much more advance and rich then the muslims of so called Islamic republic.

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

I think these numbers dont matter..what matters is that we should give equality to everyone who wants to serve the country.

And these numbers dont suggest that the Army is not taking in Muslims.

And i think..Indian Army world be the only Army in this would which would serve JHATKA and HALAL meat to its soldiers on the same table.

 

[bluefox]

The divide between India and Pakistan is NOT Hindu and Muslim.
Pakistani Sikhs and Hindus are Pakistani, Indian Muslims are Indian.

get ur self some medicine for the bold part

 

[BATMAN]

IA soldiers during the Kargil war of 1999.

Please these Muslims are also Indians as much as I am...and IA is one of the finest institutions in the country and any attempt to malign its namre by bringing in religion will be met with staunch resistance..atleast by me...

Why are they all wearing different uniforms, at the same battel and same position?
Why are they keeping guns infront while praying?

 

[anathema]

Why are they all wearing different uniforms, at the same battel and same position?
Why are they keeping guns infront while praying?

Not sure about the uniforms --

As to why they were keeping guns in front -- this pic was taken before the final push to capture either Tiger hill or one of the peaks -- anyways whats wrong if they have kept guns in front them ?

 

[Adam Gilchrist]

Not sure about the uniforms --

As to why they were keeping guns in front -- this pic was taken before the final push to capture either Tiger hill or one of the peaks -- anyways whats wrong if they have kept guns in front them ?

Thanks for answering the second part coz i didnt know the answer to the second part which was stopping me from posting.

Regarding the uniforms...IA soldiers wear many types of uniforms with all kind on camo patterns..because they go to the tailor and whatever camo they like..they select it and get the uniform stiched...the Army doesnt give enough uniforms in an year and the soldiers have to get their uniforms stiched from their salary only.