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According to recent reports, India’s first Army Chief Gen MM Narvane has scheduled a visit to Saudi Arabia next week. In addition to meeting military brass, the Chief Gen will be addressing Saudi Arabia‘s National Defense University. The visit also includes a tour of the UAE.

Sources suggest that the Indian Army chief Gen MM Naravane is expected to make 4-day visit to Saudi Arabia and the UAE. The visit will commence from Sunday, this visit will be Gen Narvane’s third foreign diplomatic visit this yar.

Indian Army Chief decides to visit Saudi Arabia
This visit will be a major development for relations between Saudi Arabia and India. Trade and cultural links between both states date back to approximately the third millennium BC. Diplomatic relations were initiated between the two states after India secured its Independence in 1947. Both states have been particularly close on the regional affairs and trade front. Saudi Arabia happens to be one of the largest suppliers of oil to India. India is among the top seven consistent trading partners in addition to the fifth-biggest investor in Saudi Arabia.

Throughout history, there have been a total of four visits to Saudi Arabia by an Indian Prime Minister. These visits were made by Jawaharlal Nehru in 1955), Indira Gandhi during 1982, Manmohan Singh in (2010) and Narendra Modi in 2016. The two states have adopted a similar view on combating terrorism and its consequences.

There happens to be a strong geographical and demographic link that connects the 2 countries as Islam has been found to be the 2nd largest religion in India. Moreover, the large number of Muslim Population in India is the second-largest in the world. This means India sends a huge number of Indian pilgrims each year for Umrah and Hajj to Saudi Arabia.

Past relations
A national security analyst from India tweeted, “In a first India’s Army Chief, Gen MM Naravane will be visiting Saudi Arabia next week. Apart from meeting military brass, he will be addressing Saudi Arabia’s National Defence University. The COAS will also be touring UAE. The 2-country trip is sure to be watched very closely.”

In February 2019, the Saudi Crown Prince, Muhammad bin Salman, paid a visit to India during his journey to many Asian countries surrounding India. During his visit, the crown prince also met the Indian prime minister in addition to a number of senior ranking officers in India.

The primary intention of the diplomatic visit was to improve the historical ties between India and Saudi Arabia. The two states also reached an agreement on increasing trade relations between them. Moreover, the number of Indian pilgrims performing the holy pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia was also increased to 200,000 each year. The Saudi prince also expressed that the Saudi investment in India may increase up to $100 billion in the coming two years. This potential visit by the Indian Army Chief to Saudi Arabia is likely to attract massive attention on international media.

sources: https://insiderpaper.com/indian-army-chief-narvane-visit-saudi-arabia/
 
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Looks like United States pressurized Saudis to receive the Indian chief too just like they successfully forced the Saudi-Qatar deal recently despite the fact that both parties resisted.

Saudi Arabia is also being influenced to accept arch rival Turkey as once again a friend or something close to it (something very hard for Saudi Arabia and for Turkey too). A forced geopolitical alignment of sort.

Nothing will come out of this visit.
 
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This visit will be a major development for relations between Saudi Arabia and India. Trade and cultural links between both states date back to approximately the third millennium BC.

No, that part of "India" which is being referred to is the soil which the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has been founded upon.
 
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Looks like United States pressurized Saudis to receive the Indian chief too just like they successfully forced the Saudi-Qatar deal recently despite the fact that both parties resisted. US secretely and not so secretly does a lot in this part of the world.

Saudi Arabia is also being influenced to accept arch rival Turkey as once again a friend or something close to it (something very hard for Saudi Arabia and for Turkey too). A forced geopolitical alignment of sort.

Nothing will come out of this visit.
I think that's your wishful thinking. US has no need to do that. It's just that pakistan has suffered a diplomatic defeat in the ME and now UAE and Saudi Arab are supporting India and snubbed you, we are working towards greater cooperation with the Arab world.
Neither country know how to fight, the Sandi army perform very poorly in the war in Yemen.
As they were trained by the pakistanis and led by a former pakistani army chief.
 
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Looks like United States pressurized Saudis to receive the Indian chief too just like they successfully forced the Saudi-Qatar deal recently despite the fact that both parties resisted. US secretely and not so secretly does a lot in this part of the world.

Saudi Arabia is also being influenced to accept arch rival Turkey as once again a friend or something close to it (something very hard for Saudi Arabia and for Turkey too). A forced geopolitical alignment of sort.

Nothing will come out of this visit.

Realignment, yes. But assuming it vain is premature.
After Iran sanctions, Saudis actively pursued Indians(Indians withdrew from Iranian oil). The goal remains the same, Pakistan must take a back seat to on going play in the region and take cues from India...
Desist and stick to the selected/specific role...
So Pakistan remains a pivot(still?)...

Iran is to be defanged permanently and China
collared/contained. Israeli preeminence maintained and unchallenged in mideast... India raised a notch...

Here, board is drawn...
 
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I think that's your wishful thinking. US has no need to do that. It's just that pakistan has suffered a diplomatic defeat in the ME and now UAE and Saudi Arab are supporting India and snubbed you, we are working towards greater cooperation with the Arab world.

As they were trained by the pakistanis and led by a former pakistani army chief.

US has every reason to do that. Creating an alliance that will form an economic and energy corridor from middle east to india is fundamentally important for US not the least because Israeli companies will make a lot of money out of it and so do American. Plus creating favorable economic environment for "made in india products" will help lesson chinese industrial footprints in the middle east. That will take away a portion of market from chinese hands (or so the US hopes). US has immense interest in it (look at the case of huawei. Even against a single company US has worked so hard).

It will also strengthen anti-Iran alliance as India can be more easily persuaded to stay away from Iran if india-GCC stronger trade partnership is created. There are lots of other factors that I don't have time to discuss. Indians have habits of "giving opinions" without backing that up with any logical reasons such "US has no reason to do that". US has plenty of reasons.

You are welcome to live in "wishful thinking". Saudis were trained by the whole world largely by the US, England, even by France. Saudis are used to a life in luxury, and find it difficult to live in harsh battlefield condition and perform well. Their performance has nothing to do with who trained them. Training wears off when a person returns to their old life. Its a fact of life.

Pakistani army chief representation is mostly symbolic.
Operational control is in Saudis' hand. They are responsible for what is going on in Yemen.

Please don't reply. I genuinely stay away from indians even on forums. Its who I am. You are welcome to believe whatever you like. Just don't quote me. Write views in a separate empty post if you like.
 
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Looks like United States pressurized Saudis to receive the Indian chief too just like they successfully forced the Saudi-Qatar deal recently despite the fact that both parties resisted. US secretely and not so secretly does a lot in this part of the world.

Saudi Arabia is also being influenced to accept arch rival Turkey as once again a friend or something close to it (something very hard for Saudi Arabia and for Turkey too). A forced geopolitical alignment of sort.

Nothing will come out of this visit.

Idiotic levels of assumption. You would think kids were posting comments here
Neither country know how to fight, the Sandi army perform very poorly in the war in Yemen.

They haven't even commited boots on the ground while the US on the other hand got handily defeated in Afgahnistan but you never see how incomptent they are right?
 
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Anyone who believes this is either dumb or ignorant but yeah bro anything that helps you peacefully sleep at night.
So you deny that you trained suadi forces and your gen. Raheel Sharif was leading them during their war against houthis?
 
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Realignment, yes. But assuming it vain is premature.
After Iran sanctions, Saudis actively pursued Indians(Indians withdrew from Iranian oil). The goal remains the same, Pakistan must take a back seat to on going play in the region and take cues from India...
Desist and stick to the selected/specific role...
So Pakistan remains a pivot(still?)...

Iran is to be defanged permanently and China
collared/contained. Israeli preeminence maintained and unchallenged in mideast... India raised a notch...

Here, board is drawn...

I agree with you that we must not pick sides at least at this stage (I missed that point earlier). I also understand what you are saying about western plans and Gulf role in them including regarding Iran. At the end however we will have to find a balance between Iran and the Gulf Nations. Western plans may have worked in the past, but world is now increasingly different. They even failed in Afghanistan. I respectfully disagree that China can be contained despite the plans (I know that's not what you meant).

We must let go this "racial hierarchy" in which either European race (and now a days even Chinese race for that matter) wins and gets to have their way (Between 60% to 70% Pakistanis are euro-Asian by race by the way, not talking about haplogroup or those ancestry based studies which ill-informed here on pdf wrongly call "genetic studies", I am talking about actual genome where most of Pakistani men and women have the same genes/alleles that most of the Europeans have. Its actual current genome (i.e. set of genes) that defines the race and who we are and not the haplogroups (i.e. thousands of years old ancestry revealing genetic markers).

If I have two sons one of whose future generation kept on marrying in africa and the other whose future generation kept on marrying in europe will both have the same ancestor namely me (and therefore the same ancestral markers). But the off springs of my son whose generation married in africa will have the actual african genes and will be of African by race in just few generation of repeatedly marrying in africa but my other son whose off springs lived and married in europe, they will acquire european genome (they will be european by race). Race is not the same therefore having the same ancestor but with whom our subsequent generations exchanged genetic material with. but that's another topic).

I know you don't have such mental racial hierarchy. I am talking about general Pakistani/muslim mentality here. The Taliban had no such racial hierarchy in their head, neither they knew any super power to which they surrender to. They were free, they are free and they die free. Hence whatever US plans were, had no effect on their existence. Despite their obvious short comings such as being harsh or backward in thinking, the Taliban had already surrendered to Allah so they could not do it to the US. Today they negotiate with equality and honor. Something others don't have when dealing with US. May be we should do it too and follow our plans regardless of what US or even China thinks.

Even Iran will get 400 billion dollar investment from China despite what US planned for them or what our arab brothers wished for them. Clearly US is not running the universe and neither is China. Much like many arabs, iranian caused suffering and suffered at the same time. The difference is arabs nations that caused suffering are enjoying life (e.g. UAE) and innocent and good arab nations are suffering (e.g. Syria, Yemen, Palestine etc.). Like them, we probably ourselves are guilty of the same. Still Chinese plans help us achieve our goals. In that spirit I want to talk about the plans of other side. So that we have a balanced view of both worlds.

This is because as Pakistan rises economically partly driven by gradual Chinese industrial relocation to this region (Pakistan will rise, that is inevitable as shown below) then we will be able to do or stand up for things that currently we don't or can't.

We must not count on China for our progress either but find our own way to independence.

A strong independent and free Pakistan that sees no superpower but based on principles and values, is able to navigate the economic, social, industrial and military realms on its own is what we should be aiming for . The Pakistan that can stand for the rights of fellow muslims and other oppressed people that Pakistan should be our goal.

For now at our current stage of development however, the reality is countries like China can influence things in many ways which we might as well use for our advantage.

Let me explain why in some detail those advantages.

China has plans to create eventually a road link via an undersea/oversea link from Gwadar to Oman, connecting Pakistan directly with the Gulf nations. It will likely to be over sea bridge though. Pakistan will likely give permission for such construction since Pakistan itself will be able to export to middle east and africa via such link. Technology has reached a point where such construction are now possible.

A better and more likely option would be to go from Pakistan to Iran first. So that a shorter tunnel or over sea bridge can be made from Iran to the agreeing gulf nation likely oman again. In that case traffic will have to go from Pakistan to iran first. But undersea tunnel or over sea bridge will be much shorter and cheaper to built. Iran is in Chinese camp now so that's not a problem anymore. Points of ship clearance can constructed along the way.

Either way, once directly from Pakistan to oman or From Pakistan-iran to oman rail/road link exists, these gulf nations will then be connected via the " Bridge of the Horns", connecting Yemen with Djibouti, creating an economic corridor from middle east to the eastern Africa. So the whole first corridor will be from China-Pakistan-Gulf nations-Yemen to Africa. This is illustrated in the image below.

The second trade corridor would be from China to africa via Egypt. Its first portion will be the same as above that is through Pakistan (again via gulf nations involving once again Gwadar-Oman link or from Pakistan to iran-oman undersea/oversea link). Or it could be from Pakistan to iran-Iraq to Egypt in Africa (the third corridor). The second corridor will be China-Pakistan-Gulf Nations to egypt and rest of africa (or skip the gulf nations and go via iran-iraq, as in the third corridor in the image below). It will also cover Levant. So the above two trade corridors will have Pakistan as the central place.

The third corridor from China via Pakistan, iran, iraq and the middle east is set to go in the next 5 to 7 years (see the image below). Pakistan will be connected to middle east in a lot of ways (via many corridors as discussed above) contributing to Pakistan’s economic rise, influence and power. Arabs are not just gulf rulers. They include sophisticated arabs of Levant, educated Egyptian and Iraqis. These are different from Gulf arabs and so are Maghreb (e.g. Algeria, Morocco, Tunis etc.) who are also very nice. Trade involving made in Pakistan products and good brotherly relations with these arabs are good for Pakistan even when things are not ideal with Gulf arabs. Money brings people closer together. With iran we share a lot of cultural, historic, religious and even racial relationships as well. A balanced strategic approach will help us navigate their Persian-Arab rivalry better rather than taking openly any sides. We should try to diffuse any tension between them when possible.

So now the only economic corridors from asia to africa via middle east will be the Chinese ones and Pakistan will have a central place in them. Off course Pakistan will have to somehow fund our own economic corridors to central asia if we wish and/or merge our plans with chinese or russians (e.g. road link to certain central Asian states via China)

Made in Pakistan whether owned by Pakistani companies or Chinese corporations will find markets everywhere via these economic corridors. Along with Chinese exporting their stuff via Pakistan, Pakistan will export its own stuff. Built by China in all other countries while available to us and for our trade. Its pretty cool and free.

Relocated Chines industry in Pakistan, Iran, and may be in Afghanistan (at least mineral processing ones) will also need these trade corridors to create efficient supply lines.

Note: It is not necessary that we have to have road based economic corridors. An efficient advanced port is enough to replace the road or over sea link where needed (e.g. Gwadar). High speed train/trucks can however generally be much faster and even cheaper at places. They are also efficient (require less handling etc.).

Also Note: roads don't follow straight lines due to rivers, mountains, and so on. Hence on a map a path may look shorter but in real life it may be shorter from elsewhere. Pakistan offers a lot of efficient (e.g. requiring less fuel due to non-mountaneous roads etc.) and shorter routes to lots of nations even when on maps Pakistani routes might look longer (also realize earth is curved, maps are not).

InkedPartial-Europe-Middle-East-Asia-Partial-Russia-Partial-Africa-Map_LI.png

In the Image Above: 1st, 2nd and 3rd corridor illustrated as black lines as well as Pakistan's own central asian trade routes also in black lines. Note: These are rough hand sketched drawings.

China took over Djibouti so that so that the anticipated Israel-gulf nations' economic corridor to eastern Africa via " Bridge of the Horns" is blocked (the one connecting Yemen with Djibouti in Africa). That was done quite well by china.

That's why Israel and west supported Saudi war on Yemen hopping to eventually displace China from Djibouti (once Yemen was captured) even though that was and is impossible (They made money while as usual Muslims civilians died and armed muslims spent time killing each other). China can’t be displaced. Yemen was the key here. But no longer the key for Israel/UAE alliance since China controls Djibouti. It was UAE that drove Saudi into this useless war. UAE and others will happily join Chinese plans now.

Israeli plans will only be limited to india eventually or Israel will join the Chinese programs (most likely). India itself will become irrelevant to a large degree. As Chinese products will find their way to the middle east via Pakistan too (apart from the usual but at times more expensive sea routes).

The israeli economic corridor from Israel (coming from Africa via Egypt) and going through Syria to Europe is no longer possible as that is now blocked by once again Russia (occupying Syria) and off course by Turkey.

Coming back to Pakistan, the final corridor will be from China via Pakistan and involving both Afghanistan and iran (two parallel routes) going to Europe will link Pakistan with the Europe and Russia as well as central asia.

Pakistan will be the most significant link in all these trade routes since Pakistan is next to China.


Lots of products will be assembled, packed in Pakistan even when they are still made in China. Plus lot of them will be made in Pakistan from scratch. Pakistani industry will flourish and Pakistan will rise with extremely high growth rate. That’s inevitable.

India is nowhere in it. Nowhere. Pakistan is everywhere. So indian army chief can visit Saudi Arabia all he likes, in few years, things will get harder for him.

Off course india will try to do whatever she can. India may even have her own links with the middle east but those will be weak ones. Combined Pakistan, China, Iran, Turkey, Russia, Central asia and so on can deal with these easily. These countries will increasingly be closer to each other due to their shared trade interests under the China belt and road initiative. They all have shared interest in this new emerging world order. They will help each other above all.

The reality is that the Chinese rise is unstoppable and now involves too many nation supporting china for their own sake whether they are Iran or even Japan.

India won’t be allowed to continue her terror campaign either.

Eventually India will be drawn into an inner turmoil where various freedom movements will be supported. I don't think Chinese will allow India to become powerful enough so that Indians can harm Chinese global interests. Once China has secured Tibet fully, and meets her poverty reduction goals, China will be free to take those actions that may lead to little economic price for her in dealing with india.

Just like US could not stop east Asian nations from joining China, it can’t stop middle east joining with china eventually under grand economic arrangements since money and increasingly advanced technology is in Asia/Russia now.

Indian wins are their own wishful thinking and are temporary. That’s not just based on above coming reality but also based on lots of other things that I know but won’t discuss here due to their sensitive nature.

Indians can dismiss all the above to have “feel good feelings” but that’s what both China and Pakistan are working towards. The current CPEC is just one element of this whole grand game. Things are taking shape daily, bit by bit, towards these goals. It’s a reality that is taking shape right now.

We are talking about a continuous integrated market and economic zone from China to Pakistan to middle east to Africa. The US could not stop east asian nations from forming such an economic arrangement with China, it can never stop middle east which already has huge trade with china and lots of nations in Africa are already with China and Russia-Pakistan-Iran-Turkey are also on board and so integrated euro-asian-african economic zone will be a reality. It benefits all.

Its very important to realize that large scale integrated economic zones consisting of several nations allow creation of self-organizing supply chains and industrial Eco-systems. This speeds up industrial growth in each of the participating nations at a high rate. It's that which will fuel Pakistani growth on its own.

If all of this was not so critical for Pakistan's future, pakistan military would not have gone to raise tens of thousands of troups to protect CPEC (risking precious lives) and non-CPEC developments (e.g. federally funded western corridor in Balochistan).


As discussed above, Pakistan will be the chief beneficiary as more and more industrial investment will come to Pakistan and not to mention Pakistan’s own industry will have access to global market like no other. All of this will allow Pakistan to reach extremely high industrial growth as years go by. Things will pick up with time. A little patient is needed for now. Between 2022 to 2027 this new reality will beginning to emerge more and more fully. Then rise of Pakistan as fast emerging economic, industrial and military power is inevitable.
 
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They're clearly referring to IVC, Kerala engaged in trade with Arabia much later.

Don’t be so insecure to have the need to bring IVC into every India discussion.

Trade relations and cultural exchanges between Kerala and arabs existed way back in the BCs. The oldest mosque in entire Indian subcontinent is in Kerala and is still open. Islam co existed peacefully in India way before it became mainstream in Pak.
 
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