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Indian Air Force, Army Debate "Cold Start" Against Pakistan

these are just plans people. every country has plans against others, not just enemies but even friends however unlikely the conflict between friends may be.
 
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Cold start and the concept is now a serious threat to pakistan.

India is spending $billions on strike capability examples include

The long range SU30MKI
100KM smerch MBRL
200Km Brahmos cruise missles
Transport plane like C17
mmrca like F18S/H or Rafael.
2 meduim sized carriers 40k tonnes each.

NONE OF THIS EQUIPMENT is defensive arsenal like radars or sams systems.

ITS ALL STRIKE HARDARE. IE offensive military orders only ..

Gives us the state of mind and military planning that india is thinking
 
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India can think whatever it wants there is no such thing as cold start any war means nukes and when nukes are used half of south asian population will die immediately and the remaining half will die due to nuclear winter
 
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India can think whatever it wants there is no such thing as cold start any war means nukes and when nukes are used half of south asian population will die immediately and the remaining half will die due to nuclear winter

There is not going to be any war until we have sane minds on both sides.Try to maintain peace instead of war mongering .Nuclear option is not to be even thought of.Think about thefuture generations.
 
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NOTE= stray means homeless dogs and this word for indian migs was used by an indian fellow of OUR PDF
Viper: You stand corrected. For your assertion of the word "Stray" used in the earlier context is not the same as what you twisted it to be in the part that you are quoted above..

Meaning(s) of Stray:
Stray

• verb 1 move away aimlessly from a group or from the right course or place. 2 (of the eyes or a hand) move idly in a specified direction. 3 informal be unfaithful to a spouse or partner.

• adjective 1 not in the right place; separated from a group. 2 (of a domestic animal) having no home or having wandered away from home.

• noun a stray person or thing, especially a domestic animal.

— ORIGIN Old French estrayer, from Latin extra ‘out of bounds’ + vagari ‘wander’.
Source: Oxford Dictionay (British Version) AskOxford: stray
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Stray:
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French estraié, past participle of estraier
Date: 13th century

1 a : a domestic animal that is wandering at large or is lost b : a person or thing that strays
2 [Middle English, from straien to stray] archaic : the act of going astray
Source: Merriam-Webster (American version) stray - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

PS: And I'm not saying anything about your English knowledge.
 
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i was demonstrating the effectiveness of the anza stingers. The ones used managed to secure 3, possibly 4 kills. After mumbai drama, indian aircrafts were painted (target locked) PAF was ready to shoot them down but decided that since the indians dropped everything and ran hastily back to indian air space, A2A engagement was not necessary. And by the way, they were migs not flankers. Get your facts right.

The indian jet was given 40 seconds to leave the airspace and they did , why should we seek hostilities for such penetration but that was a ridiculous attempt .
 
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Cold start and the concept is now a serious threat to pakistan.

India is spending $billions on strike capability examples include

The long range SU30MKI
100KM smerch MBRL
200Km Brahmos cruise missles
Transport plane like C17
mmrca like F18S/H or Rafael.
2 meduim sized carriers 40k tonnes each.

NONE OF THIS EQUIPMENT is defensive arsenal like radars or sams systems.

ITS ALL STRIKE HARDARE. IE offensive military orders only ..

Gives us the state of mind and military planning that india is thinking

If they have their offensive weapons so do we, their offensive weapons dont scare us because we very well know that we can respond in force. This was highlighted by General Kayani after Indian threats for Surgical Strikes, let them come and try to use their weapons and than we will use ours.
 
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With current advancement in Pakistani Military I think war is futile event and un necessary , Kashmir can only have a peaceful resolution with place being desingated open , like Hong Kong untill its peacefully returned to Pakistan in exchanged for future ties with India , I mean its matter of simple relations -

If britain can give Hong Kong to China I am sure India can do same , and shake hands with Pakistan and move to next step in mutal relations for future
 
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With current advancement in Pakistani Military I think war is futile event and un necessary , Kashmir can only have a peaceful resolution with place being desingated open , like Hong Kong untill its peacefully returned to Pakistan in exchanged for future ties with India , I mean its matter of simple relations -

If britain can give Hong Kong to China I am sure India can do same , and shake hands with Pakistan and move to next step in mutal relations for future

Why can't Pakistan withdraw his forces from *** and handover it to India? I think it is not as simple as you think or putting in the aforementioned sentence.
 
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would be a good chance to battle test our MBDA Spada 2000 air defence system :)

Do you think Pakistan is using MBDA Spada 2000 to secure it's nuclear & strategic assets from preemptive strikes? :hitwall: :hitwall:

I think PA is using HongQi 9/FT-2000 Anti-Radiation SAM, MBDA Spada 2000, plus domestically (low-medium altitude - probably copy of LY-60) build 10-30km SAM system to protect them.

Pakistan also purchase WS-2 multi-launch rocket from China (source PakDef.info)



Pakistan's SAM program is as follows:

The Pakistan Air Force:

Has ordered the MBDA Spada-2000 "Plus" which entails upgraded electronics, sensors and enhanced command & control capabilities. It has a range of at least 20km, and the PAF may acquire more batteries of the system. This will act as a low to medium-range SAM system.

http://www.ideaspakistan.gov.pk/ideas2008/downloads/IDEAS2008_EventBulletin_2.pdf

PAF is actively looking for a long-range SAM system, the front-runner is the Chinese FT-2000 or export HQ-9.

PakDef Forums - View Single Post - PakDef in Media

Pakistan Army:

The Pakistan Army recently ordered the revival of RBS-70 short-range SAM, these will be augmented by the Anza Mk.3 in the V-/SHORAD role.

The PA has also chosen the RBS-23 BAMSE for the medium-range requirement:

PakDef Forums - View Single Post - Pakistani Land & Sea Based Air Defence

Four countries including Pakistan interested in RBS 23 BAMSE - Military Photos

Worth noting that Turkey is also interested in BAMSE, and may acquire it with rights to locally manufacture and re-export. Given the recent upsurge in Turk-Pak cooperation, I think BAMSE will eventually be finalized.

Pakistan Navy:

According to Usman Shabbir on PakDef, it may acquire an 'air defence system' from South Africa - which I suspect is the Umkhonto-IR. Given Pakistan's recent purchase of MAR-1 ARMs from Brazil - with ToT (Usman Shabbir on PakDef) - we may see trilateral cooperation with Brazil & S.Africa. I think Darter and Umkhonto-series will be the main areas, and possibly Embraer C-390 transport too.

If this happens to be the case, then I believe the Umkhonto-IR and R will be the mainstay VLS-SAMs in PN's future fleet. The Umkhonto-IR will likely be used on MILGEM and a larger MRTP-series; while a 25-30km variant of Umkhonto (R/NG) would be used on the future mainstay frigates...of which PN requires 8 ships (as per H Khan on PakDef).

Not sure if PN is planning on a long-range SAM system, but if it does, then I think it might try to procure the MBDA PAAMS involving Aster-30 & 15 for use on air defence ships. H Khan also said PN is hoping to acquire 6 FFG of a new design developed with assistance from Turkey and Germany. It is possible that 4 of these new ships could be equipped with a complete set like PAAMs...while 2 can be committed land-attack with VLS-LACM, cannons, ability to deply special forces, etc.
 
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would be a good chance to battle test our MBDA Spada 2000 air defence system :)

Do you think Pakistan is using MBDA Spada 2000 to secure it's nuclear & strategic assets from preemptive strikes? :hitwall: :hitwall:

I think PA is using HongQi 9/FT-2000 Anti-Radiation SAM, MBDA Spada 2000, HQ-2, plus domestically (low-medium altitude - probably copy of LY-60) build 10-30km SAM system to protect them.

Pakistan also purchase WS-2 multi-launch rocket from China (source PakDef.info)



Pakistan's SAM program is as follows:

The Pakistan Air Force:

Has ordered the MBDA Spada-2000 "Plus" which entails upgraded electronics, sensors and enhanced command & control capabilities. It has a range of at least 20km, and the PAF may acquire more batteries of the system. This will act as a low to medium-range SAM system.

http://www.ideaspakistan.gov.pk/ideas2008/downloads/IDEAS2008_EventBulletin_2.pdf

PAF is actively looking for a long-range SAM system, the front-runner is the Chinese FT-2000 or export HQ-9.

PakDef Forums - View Single Post - PakDef in Media

Pakistan Army:

The Pakistan Army recently ordered the revival of RBS-70 short-range SAM, these will be augmented by the Anza Mk.3 in the V-/SHORAD role.

The PA has also chosen the RBS-23 BAMSE for the medium-range requirement:

PakDef Forums - View Single Post - Pakistani Land & Sea Based Air Defence

Four countries including Pakistan interested in RBS 23 BAMSE - Military Photos

Worth noting that Turkey is also interested in BAMSE, and may acquire it with rights to locally manufacture and re-export. Given the recent upsurge in Turk-Pak cooperation, I think BAMSE will eventually be finalized.

Pakistan Navy:

According to Usman Shabbir on PakDef, it may acquire an 'air defence system' from South Africa - which I suspect is the Umkhonto-IR. Given Pakistan's recent purchase of MAR-1 ARMs from Brazil - with ToT (Usman Shabbir on PakDef) - we may see trilateral cooperation with Brazil & S.Africa. I think Darter and Umkhonto-series will be the main areas, and possibly Embraer C-390 transport too.

If this happens to be the case, then I believe the Umkhonto-IR and R will be the mainstay VLS-SAMs in PN's future fleet. The Umkhonto-IR will likely be used on MILGEM and a larger MRTP-series; while a 25-30km variant of Umkhonto (R/NG) would be used on the future mainstay frigates...of which PN requires 8 ships (as per H Khan on PakDef).

Not sure if PN is planning on a long-range SAM system, but if it does, then I think it might try to procure the MBDA PAAMS involving Aster-30 & 15 for use on air defence ships. H Khan also said PN is hoping to acquire 6 FFG of a new design developed with assistance from Turkey and Germany. It is possible that 4 of these new ships could be equipped with a complete set like PAAMs...while 2 can be committed land-attack with VLS-LACM, cannons, ability to deply special forces, etc.
 
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Do you think Pakistan is using MBDA Spada 2000 to secure it's nuclear & strategic assets from preemptive strikes? :hitwall: :hitwall:

i am very well aware about the role of the Spada system, thank you. As i said, in my post I simply stated that in the event of enemy incursion, it would be interesting to see how the system fares.


i doubt india would be stupid enough to hit our nuclear facilities; though it was israelis asking india to use its airspace when we were enriching. Good to keep a good eye out on the enemy
 
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a53d1063c005e6d86241b346410006b8.jpg

SPADA 2000 is an advanced, ground based missile system capable of operating in dense ECM environments to provide all weather, day and night area defence against combat aircraft and incoming missiles.

It is a development from the original Skyguard/Aspide system and now benefits from the increased engagement range of the powerful ASPIDE 2000 missile as well as the increased detection range and track management capabilities of the new Detection Centre.

SPADA 2000 is integrated within a shelter system allowing for both tactical and strategic mobility, including air-transportability from a C130 transport aircraft. The basic configuration of the SPADA 2000 system consists of a Detection Centre, two Firing Sections (expandable to four) each with two Missile Launchers. Each Missile Launcher houses six ready-to-fire ASPIDE 2000 missiles.

The operational performance of the ASPIDE 2000 missile allows it to engage air threats at ranges well beyond other VSHORAD missiles and engage attacking aircraft before they can release their standoff rocket-propelled missiles or intercepting these missiles once released. This upgrade of the original ASPIDE missile embodies the latest electronic features to improve its guidance characteristics and effectiveness in heavy clutter and ECM environments. ASPIDE 2000 is compatible with all systems currently using the ASPIDE multi-role missile by the simple application of a cost-effective modification kit. Similarly, all existing ASPIDE multi-role missiles can be retrofitted to the ASPIDE 2000 configuration with only marginal costs. Logistic support remains unchanged.


Characteristics of the ASPIDE 2000 missile

Intercept Range:…in excess of 20 Km
Speed:……………High Supersonic
Guidance:………..semi-active radar homing


Programme status

First configuration SPADA systems were delivered in the late 1980s to the Italian Air Force and have since undergone a modernisation and improvement programme.

First phase system improvements (SPADA 2000) started in 1996 and concluded in 1999 with delivery to the Spanish Air Force where the system is now in service. In 2003, second phase improvements (SPADA 2000 PLUS) to the launcher, C2, FCC and radar commenced and have now been completed.

SPADA 2000 is in service with the Italian and Spanish Armed Forces and has recently been ordered by an export customer.

==================================================

Spada 2000 Ground based air defence missile system

10:17 GMT, February 19, 2009 The Aspide 2000 missile has set yet another exceptional record in its long career. During an air defence exercise that took place at the end of January 2009, the Amoun battery of Kuwait’s Air Defence Brigade carried out five Aspide 2000 missile launches against a series of air targets simulating different types of attack scenarios. All of the launches were successful and all five targets were destroyed, either by direct impact or as a result of the warhead exploding within a miss distance of well below one meter. The launches were performed in different weather conditions (day and night) and showed once again the absolute reliability of MBDA’s Aspide 2000 missile.

As a result of this exercise, the Aspide 2000 was able to establish an absolute record in terms of percentage launch success, establishing a success rate exceeding 97% from over 600 missiles launched around the world. With over 5,000 missiles having already been produced, Aspide is now experiencing a new dawn in its latest “2000” version.

Ing. Fabrizio Giulianini, MBDA’s Executive Group Sales and Business Development Director and MBDA Italy Managing Director, said “This latest achievement of the Aspide 2000 missile has confirmed its operating effectiveness and its design strength which has allowed us to renovate the system without any issues of note. Furthermore, this success also confirms that good system and technological choices were made from the very beginning. This exceptional result will give further impetus to the export activities involving this missile, which, as well as being deployed on the Skyguard/Amoun system, is also used on many other systems such as Skyguard El, the naval Albatros variant and the Spada AMI. Aspide 2000, the latest version of the Aspide missile, as well as being deployed in the Skyguard Amoun, is also used in the Spada 2000 Plus system”.

The Spada 2000 Plus system is a ground based air defence missile system designed to protect vital assets from different types of threat such as fighter and bomber aircraft, cruise missiles, helicopters and UAVs.

The Spada 2000 Plus is characterized by a high degree of modularity and flexibility, based on ISO standard modules.

Each system section comprises a Detection Center and up to four Firing Sections, each one comprising a Fire Control Center and two Missile Launchers each equipped with six missiles. The Spada 2000 Plus system is also capable of integrating V-SHORAD weapon systems and can operate autonomously or can be integrated within a higher level defence network or architecture.

defence.professionals | defpro.com


By Tom Kington

ROME - Pakistan will test-fire next spring the Spada 2000 air defense system it has acquired from MBDA Italia, officials at the Italian firm said.

The test-firing, which will be staged in Pakistan in the first half of 2010, will follow the delivery in February of the first of 10 Spada batteries ordered by Pakistan for 415 million euros ($565.1 million) in 2007.

"We aim to deliver all 10 of the batteries within 36 months of the test-firing, that is to say by 2013," said Antonio Perfetti, CEO of MBDA Italia, which is the Finmeccanica-owned Italian operation within the European missile house MBDA.

Operated by Italy and Spain, each Spada 2000 system features two firing sections, each containing two to four missile launchers, each hosting six Aspide 2000 missiles. The missiles have an intercept range of more than 20 kilometers.

Since the contract became operational in February 2008, MBDA has launched the construction of facilities in Karachi for maintenance on the systems.

The set-up forms part of an offset arrangement on the sale, which Perfetti said had been "important" to winning the contract.

Two facilities are being prepared, one for maintenance of the Spada system and a second for guidance system testing and maintenance of the Aspide missiles, both completed in February.

Training of Pakistani technicians will start this year, while Pakistani military officials visited MBDA in Italy last week to follow progress, part of a cycle of visits.

Perfetti said the Italian military was continuing to act as liaison with the customer. A second MBDA official added that the Italian Air Force had already helped prove the effectiveness of the system in 2005 when it staged eight test-launches at its Salto di Quirra range for visiting Pakistani officials.



Pakistan To Test-Fire Italian Air Defense Missiles in 2010 - Defense News
 
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Why Would india hand over Kashmir to pakistan.

India is easily the most powerful nation in the region. Econmically/military by a long long way

They don,t need to do anything. As i see it.
 
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