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India: World's Largest Mobocracy

Complex question. One can speculate on whether Aryans introduced caste system elsewhere (as they certainly migrated to other regions). I don't know much about this but I don't think they did. The rationale in the subcontinent would appear to be a means of controlling a massively numerous native population while preserving minority rule for their own kind. Mid-level enablers were presumably abundantly available to the master slavers. This is the most logical formula for the introduction of caste philosophy to the subcontinent.

I don't think those circumstances existed in the other regions Aryans went to. Also, other religions came to be numerically dominant in the regions you're asking about.

There was the pistras "system" in Iran afaik, there isn't much authentic definitive info on it but it is generically claimed to have been homogeneous and consanguineous to the vedic caste system, tossing aside the bulk of unproven notional theorizations about it I assume that it was merely a term to denote societal classes which were flexible in nature for the most part compared and contrairement to the rigid vedic caste system in which people were fettered to a caste at birth

Why do Muslims and Colonial powers propagate Aryan Invasion theory?

Because they want to justify ert while atrocities committed by them on the Indians.

It is a fact backed by both empirical evidence and Bayesian theorem so what else do you expect them to promote instead? Extraterrestrial Invasion Theory?
 
There was the pistras "system" in Iran afaik, there isn't much authentic definitive info on it but it is generically claimed to have been homogeneous and consanguineous to the vedic caste system, tossing aside the bulk of unproven notional theorizations about it I assume that it was merely a term to denote societal classes which were flexible in nature for the most part compared and contrairement to the rigid vedic caste system in which people were fettered to a caste at birth



It is a fact backed by both empirical evidence and Bayesian theorem so what else do you expect them to promote instead? Extraterrestrial Invasion Theory?
Those poor misunderstood Aryans were just trying to acquire advanced Vedic tech in order to phone home.
A bigot will always be a bigot.

Your post reflects your moral bankruptcy.
No it doesn't. It reflects evidence based assertion.

How on earth anyone is getting "moral bankruptcy" from that post is quite beyond my understanding.
 
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Read it again. The AASI group are the Andamans types. The IVC are ASI, who practiced farming and built cities, with iranic and AASI mixed heritage. ANI came from the Aryan invasions.

Science is nothing to fear.

I am very interested in this brother, we will have to discuss it at another time. Mainly I am curious as to the identity and fate of ASI.

@Talwar e Pakistan @Taimur Khurram What do you guys think?

Tht guys is a typical lying indian. Most north indian idols are porcelain white resembling dolls actually. In south they are made of stone and dark and actually have some culture to them. I believe the gods are actually indigenous to south asia but stolen by brahmins and occupied them.

They both look pretty similar to me, I don't see much difference.
 
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It is a fact backed by both empirical evidence and Bayesian theorem so what else do you expect them to promote instead? Extraterrestrial Invasion Theory?
It's called as Aryan migration theory and not Aryan invasion theory.

These migration took place over thousands of years of period. And most Indians who carry steppes genes, they also have ancient north and south Indian DNA who had made India their homes long before the Aryan migration.
 
It's called as Aryan migration theory and not Aryan invasion theory

It's referred as both invasion and migration (peaceful), both are still debatable theories in academia and I lean towards the former to a significant extent

These migration took place over thousands of years of period.

Thousand*s*? Significant influx happened between 2000 BCE and 1000 BCE
 
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It's called as Aryan migration theory and not Aryan invasion theory.

These migration took place over thousands of years of period. And most Indians who carry steppes genes, they also have ancient north and south Indian DNA who had made India their homes long before the Aryan migration.
Quit lying.

The "ANI" group was originally to be called "west Eurasian" in terms of its categorisation in Reich's seminal work, however political pressure was placed on him to call it "ancestral north Indian" to detach it conceptually from the Eurasian steppe and lend some manufactured credibility to the "out of India" nonsense being espoused by RSS propagandists. I have given examples and quotes earlier in this thread to demonstrate this. Feel free to browse.


". However, mtDNA analysis shows elevated frequencies of haplogroups common in West Eurasians only in northwest India7,8,43. Comparing the autosomal estimates of ANI ancestry to the frequencies of haplogroups characteristic of West Eurasians, we find a significant correlation on the Y chromosome (P=0.04) and a more marginal correlation in mtDNA (P=0.08) (Table S6and Figure S7). The stronger gradient in males, replicating previous reports, could reflect either male gene flow from groups with more ANI relatedness into ones with less, or female gene flow in the reverse direction. However, extensive female gene flow in India would be expected to homogenize ANI ancestry on the autosomes just as in mtDNA, which we do not observe. Supporting the view of little female ANI ancestry in India, Kivisild et al.44 reported that mtDNA ‘haplogroup U’ splits into two deep clades. ‘"

This means west Eurasian males reproduced with native subcontinental females at the expense of other possible combinations. Whether this occurred by invasion or via a "peacefully imposed" caste system is irrelevant. The usual bhakt trolls are asking for evidence of great wars and conflicts, when in reality the Aryans simply enslaved the natives unopposed. What choice did the elephant riding natives have in the face of such superiority from Eurasia? It wasn't so much a "war" as it was a "free pass".

Do read the article in detail. ANI is unrelated to AASI and very minimally related to ASI even. AASI - who can be regarded as original native "Indians" - now only exist in the Andaman islands.
 
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Do read the article in detail. ANI is unrelated to AASI and very minimally related to ASI even. AASI - who can be regarded as original native "Indians" - now only exist in the Andaman islands.
Those who exist in the Andaman islands, AASI also came from some where else, aka Africa, so how they can be original native "Indians"?

Or is because they are blacks from Africa that's why you feel comfortable to call them as original native "Indians" which also plays into your Pakistani racial superiority mindset, hmm?

The article itself clearly says
Groups with only ASI ancestry may no longer exist in mainland India.

You know what it's futile to debate from intellectual point view as you seems to have deep seated inferiority complexes who uses term like 'Bhakts' and 'enslave' demonstrating clear lack of maturity. Grow up.
 
Those who exist in the Andaman islands, AASI also came from some where else, aka Africa, so how they can be original native "Indians"?

Or is because they are blacks from Africa that's why you feel comfortable to call them as original native "Indians" which also plays into your Pakistani racial superiority mindset, hmm?

The article itself clearly says

You know what it's futile to debate from intellectual point view as you seems to have deep seated inferiority complexes who uses term like 'Bhakts' and 'enslave' demonstrating clear lack of maturity. Grow up.

Of course they all came from Africa originally. I thought you knew that much.

I'm saying ANI groups are immigrants/invaders/enslavers of the original settlers to the Indian subcontinent. Those AASI settlers were pushed to the Andaman islands by the dominant populations arriving in the west, ASI and ANI groups alike.

By all means, expel all invaders and enslavers from the subcontinent if you wish, but start with the descendants of the Eurasian steppe who drove India's original inhabitants to the Andaman islands.
 
Those who exist in the Andaman islands, AASI also came from some where else, aka Africa, so how they can be original native "Indians"?

Or is because they are blacks from Africa that's why you feel comfortable to call them as original native "Indians" which also plays into your Pakistani racial superiority mindset, hmm?

The article itself clearly says

You know what it's futile to debate from intellectual point view as you seems to have deep seated inferiority complexes who uses term like 'Bhakts' and 'enslave' demonstrating clear lack of maturity. Grow up.

Why waste his time? That was his main point


". However, mtDNA analysis shows elevated frequencies of haplogroups common in West Eurasians only in northwest India7,8,43. Comparing the autosomal estimates of ANI ancestry to the frequencies of haplogroups characteristic of West Eurasians, we find a significant correlation on the Y chromosome (P=0.04) and a more marginal correlation in mtDNA (P=0.08) (Table S6and Figure S7).

The rest speaks for itself
 
I'm saying ANI groups are immigrants/invaders/enslavers of the original settlers to the Indian subcontinent. Those AASI settlers were pushed to the Andaman islands by the dominant populations arriving in the west, ASI and ANI groups alike.
Estagforellah brother , why the study assumes the onge tribes-people who inhabit the little andaman island to be representative of what it calls the “aasi”, whom our krantikari journalist like joseph tony also refer to as the 1st Indians . They had to put "andamanese people " to create an artificial gradiant between ANI and ASI people . This is problematic in the extreme, as it is well-known that the andamanese have been cut-off from the rest of humanity for several tens of thousands of years, and therefore, any genetic affinity or kinship they may have with other groups can only be distant and tenuous at best.
 
Understand your own history first - who documented vedas? it was europeans - mostly jesuit priests. Vedas were known as "sruthi" so were never written down just recited. If you read how the jesuit priests went after them you will be rolling with laughter. Enticed by their imaginations of some secretive oriental philosophies they recruited brahmin spies and themselves became spies. (Read about Robert DeNobili) .
If we examine the text of the rig veda we find that it does not contain even the faintest hint of any memory of any such invasion . No reference to any area to outside Indian subcontinent. No reference to any foreign ancestral land . The geographic horizon of rigveda is essentially the saptasindhu region from western uttar pradesh and haryana in east to southern afghan in north and the present day border towards iran in west . It has no reference that rigveda arrived into Indian subcontinent from abroad conquering indigenous dravidian people , no reference to conquering destroying a great urban civilization on the contrary the Hymns of the Rigveda show that the composers considered themselves native to the vedic area to which they show great sentimental attachment . The composers were intimately familiar with not only rivers places plants animals of saptsindhu reigion but also with those of eastern India and on other hand thar are no references to foreign rivers places or plants or animals . Hence from Rigvedic texttual evidence its very clear that its composers were native to India .

Now europeans giving meaning to vedas is hillarious larp because we know that max muller wrote a letter to his waifu in 1866 he says that vedas are the root of Indic religion and that he will uproot all that is sprung from vedas from last 3000 years. Hence all these translations of vedas by europeans and jewish british anglo saxon abhramics is nothing but a desire to uproot Dharma in favour of biblical chronology as they believed that yahova the god of jews or father of jesus created everything in about 4004 bce and nothing could have been prior to that . They also believed thar god destroyed world in 3000 bce noahs flood and because of that no history can be present :lol:

As for brahmins , its not caste its varna . Brahmin is one who possess the knowledge of "Brahma" Absolute Truth / Ishwara) , Brahmin is a quality later on due to corruption and politics its meaning was changed .
 
If we examine the text of the rig veda we find that it does not contain even the faintest hint of any memory of any such invasion . No reference to any area to outside Indian subcontinent. No reference to any foreign ancestral land . The geographic horizon of rigveda is essentially the saptasindhu region from western uttar pradesh and haryana in east to southern afghan in north and the present day border towards iran in west . It has no reference that rigveda arrived into Indian subcontinent from abroad conquering indigenous dravidian people , no reference to conquering destroying a great urban civilization on the contrary the Hymns of the Rigveda show that the composers considered themselves native to the vedic area to which they show great sentimental attachment . The composers were intimately familiar with not only rivers places plants animals of saptsindhu reigion but also with those of eastern India and on other hand thar are no references to foreign rivers places or plants or animals . Hence from Rigvedic texttual evidence its very clear that its composers were native to India .

Now europeans giving meaning to vedas is hillarious larp because we know that max muller wrote a letter to his waifu in 1866 he says that vedas are the root of Indic religion and that he will uproot all that is sprung from vedas from last 3000 years. Hence all these translations of vedas by europeans and jewish british anglo saxon abhramics is nothing but a desire to uproot Dharma in favour of biblical chronology as they believed that yahova the god of jews or father of jesus created everything in about 4004 bce and nothing could have been prior to that . They also believed thar god destroyed world in 3000 bce noahs flood and because of that no history can be present :lol:

As for brahmins , its not caste its varna . Brahmin is one who possess the knowledge of "Brahma" Absolute Truth / Ishwara) , Brahmin is a quality later on due to corruption and politics its meaning was changed .
So what if max Muller or anyone else wrote such a letter? Clearly he understood the threat of hindutva and the enslavement it brings to mankind . That Muller wrote a letter about his desire to eradicate this dangerous belief is not objective evidence that Brahminism was native to the subcontinent.

No need to bang on about Vedas either. The absence of text about a brutal invasion or "peaceful" enslavement in a holy book written by the enslaver is actually a clever position to adopt. If I was an Aryan warlord, this is precisely what I would do to exert my will.
Estagforellah brother , why the study assumes the onge tribes-people who inhabit the little andaman island to be representative of what it calls the “aasi”, whom our krantikari journalist like joseph tony also refer to as the 1st Indians . They had to put "andamanese people " to create an artificial gradiant between ANI and ASI people . This is problematic in the extreme, as it is well-known that the andamanese have been cut-off from the rest of humanity for several tens of thousands of years, and therefore, any genetic affinity or kinship they may have with other groups can only be distant and tenuous at best.
That's hilarious. What "artificial gradient" between ANI and ASI? The genetics speak for themselves.

Speaking of genetics, I'm not your brother.
 
If we examine the text of the rig veda we find that it does not contain even the faintest hint of any memory of any such invasion . No reference to any area to outside Indian subcontinent. No reference to any foreign ancestral land .

The "text" of rig veda was "translated" (sometimes fabricated) and provided by the europeans. Before they did that your rig veda was some monkey chants and nothing more. I did not say they made them great or they did not criticized them .

In fact the very fascination of india among europeans like voltaire is to disprove biblical history. He went overboard with it. Before india became his pet like it was Egypt they used to go crazy on.
 
The "text" of rig veda was "translated" (sometimes fabricated) and provided by the europeans. Before they did that your rig veda was some monkey chants and nothing more. I did not say they made them great or they did not criticized them .

In fact the very fascination of india among europeans like voltaire is to disprove biblical history. He went overboard with it. Before india became his pet like it was Egypt they used to go crazy on.

Brother dont you think it western colonials were the ones who came here to impose thar biblical narrtives upon us and as a result of the aryan migration theory is nothing but a quest for the "western identiy".The majority of the claimants of western civilisation are not actual descendants of the Western Roman empire to begin with. For example, the flag bearers of supposed western civilisation today, United Kingdom, Germany, and its descendants in United States and Anglosphere, the Anglo Saxons are not actually descendants of Roman civilisation or culture and are just barbaric Anglo Saxon tribes (as referenced during Roman period) which robbed and looted and eventually settled in present day England, Germany. They are not Romans, but rather the barbaric tribes which scavenged the corpse of the dying and decaying Roman empire and carved their own respected societies in modern day Britain and Germany. Western Civilization today could be a thing though, but thanks to their 500-600 years of affluence and prosperity gained by looting and genociding everyone else is making them weak and decadent. Karma hitting back maybe . TIme will tell. Western identity is rooted in the judeo christian framework and that framework requires purity of thought. Therefore it cannot have Asian or Indic Cultures even Chinese culture or japanese cultures stepping out . It cannot have that .That separation is thar inside this sub continent ,all the time (they want) every period of time the knowledge needs to come to Asia to this subcontinent by so called "superior" whity and not the other way around ... only lies and nothing pffttt.

In this category India is in the class by itself.
Only by reichs and his genecbrigade not as a well established scientific law as " universal law of gravity".

So what if max Muller or anyone else wrote such a letter? Clearly he understood the threat of hindutva and the enslavement it brings to mankind . That Muller wrote a letter about his desire to eradicate this dangerous belief is not objective evidence that Brahminism was native to the subcontinent.

No need to bang on about Vedas either. The absence of text about a brutal invasion or "peaceful" enslavement in a holy book written by the enslaver is actually a clever position to adopt. If I was an Aryan warlord, this is precisely what I would do to exert my will.

Well you didnt provide any satisfactory answer about why migration into India is not mentioned in rigveda you just relied on few assumptions see Hindutva is a concept that came in 1923 almost 100 years after max muller wrote that letter . And you mention about "certain clever positions adopted by enslavers" .Then well Consider the Baudhayana Shrauta Sutra, a Vedic text. Baudhayana Shrauta Sutra 18:44 records:
“Amavasu migrated westward. His people are Gandhari, Parsu and Aratta.”

This refers to a Vedic king called Amavasu, whose people are the Gandhari (Gandhara – Afghanistan), the Parsu (Persians) and the Aratta, who are tentatively identified as living in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat, which is located in Turkey (eastern Anatolia) and Armenia.Afghanistan (Gandhara) was historically part of the Indian civilization until the Islamic invasions. The name“Persia” comes from the ancient Parshva people (an Aryan clan). The word “Parshva” is derived from the Sanskrit/Avestan (Old Persian) word “Parshu”,
which means “battle-axe”. There are clear linguistic and cultural similarities between Persia and India .
So why would so called aryan warlords who compiled vedas - brahmanism and associated termnologies with it would mention an out of India migration and not into India migration ? (Btw in vedic sanskrit aryan simply means noble person and upholder of eternal cosmic laws aka Dharma . It has nothing to do with racism and brahmanism I have already told meaning of Brhamin you can check dictionaries of Sanskrit).

Even after all these attempts, the Invasion theory leaves behind many more questions than it solves successfully. There are crores of temples for Dravidian Gods- Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma all over India while the Aryan gods- Indira, Varuna, Vayu, Agni etc. have very few temples dedicated to them. Unless one is wilfully brainded manchild, it makes no sense that the any invading superior race who supposedly defeated the indegenious men breeding thar women and made them the lower castes and/or forced them to migrate to the south, would have adopted the gods of the so called dravidians as the primordial deities above thar own Indira or Vayu. Because in reality all of them Indira Vayu Agni Shiva Krishna are just a few among such a huge array of gods and goddesses in hinduism .

That's hilarious. What "artificial gradient" between ANI and ASI? The genetics speak for themselves.
No they dont speak .Think about this , if an indian person converts into christianity will the dna also become christian ? Or lets if you learn to speak french will your dna also become french ? No it will not your dna will remain same . Its as simple as that . So Genetics speaking is absurd nonsensical argument because dna doesnt carry religion or languages . Howevar still
I would like to present a very influential paper by American journal of Human genetics . They took one of the largest samples of Indians from across different regions , different backgrounds and so on to try and identify of we are as a people . They postulated an ANI and ASI population and thar interest was to show how was the current population was derived from the ancient population , what was the actual relationship.They showed ANI and ASI diverged from a common ancestor 60000 years ago pretty much co relating with discernment of stephen oppenhiemers ancient men came at India at certain time . They also found that ANI and ASI existed side by side without mixing for a huge and long period of time untill about 4000 years ago certain event caused vicious mixing when they actually started marrying among each other . So when did central asian gene exactly got here ? As since supposedly invading aryans came to India in 1500 bce as per migration larp , so they must have left some genetic imprint in the current population .So to find any evidence of central Asian genes they looked 2000 years back 3000 years back 4000 years back 7000 yrs back 8000 years back 10000 years back and so forth no trace at all. Infact they had to go all the way to 12500 years before in order to find any evidence of central Asian gene in ancestral north Indian population !!!This clearly invalidates aryan migration larp happening in 1500bce and such.




This paper is from researchers of National Genographic consortium(about when did genetic differentiaion begin) , 1700 or so individuals from tamil nadu were taken into study about endogamy in south if you could think of it as a caste system , it shows that endogamy is 6000 years old in south India. What pro migration larpers try to show that aryans imposed caste system upon dravidians at around 600 bce so any endogamy in caste system should be present in genetic record from 200-300 or 400 bce but what we rather see in south India it is hillarious 6000 years old !

*Endogamy means the custom of marrying only within the limits of a local community, clan, or tribe. So its clear that south Indians didnt indulge in practice of endogamy because of any forced caste system imposed by so called invading aryans in 300-400 bce or so.


Would like to also add , Thats right SLC24A5 ^ the mutation occurred 30000 years ago and this mutation is present both in ancestral north Indians , europeans and ancestral south Indians .
It is responsible for expression of melanin which controls skin color .

Also a bit about r1a1a or r-m17 which also happens to be worlds most successful family , its members may possibly be over in billions .The data from the study of Leucotte G gives evidence that the R1a1 found in Punjab is the oldest while the central european haplotype is in the middle and Northern European R1a haplotype is the youngest. This pretty much buries the Aryan invasion migration theories to the ground because if they was true, we would have seen from the genetic results that the eastern european haplotype being the oldest and Indian haplotype being the youngest since reocjs claims that europeans (the parent population) came as invaders or migrants to North India as Aryans

(See - http://www.omicsonline.org/open-acc...plogroup-r1a-in-eurasia-2161-1041-1000150.pdf)

(See - http://repository.ias.ac.in/51846/1/42-PUB.pdf)
(See - https://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/jhg.2008.2)

It is also important to note the age of different population groups in the study. The study states that Central/Eastern european population is 12500 years old while Northern Population is 6900 years old. And the Punjabi/North Indian population is at least 15500 years old.The age component in these studies is the most important because as per migration theory, IVC was Dravidian and it ended because of invasion by the Aryans around 1500 BC i.e. 4000 years ago. In the light of above mentioned and similar other genetic studies, the Aryan Invasion theory is off the mark by at least 10000 years. The significance of this fact is that it demolishes the argument of these brainless retards who push the narrative that Hinduism is not native to India and came with the Aryan invaders. Since North Indian population is at least 15,000 years old, this claim falls flat on its face and make Hinduism indigenous to India and India alone. This also shows that hundreds and millions of members even billions of R1a family living across the world today are descended from a single male ancestor who lived in India at least 15500 years ago !!!

Infact , These research paper >




Shows that Europe experienced a massive population influx from the east, beginning around 4,500 years from the present . Several haplogroups were involved in this demic expansion, including the Indian-origin R1a1a. This was almost a total replacement event, which indicates that Indo-Aryans, among others, expanded westward into Europe and to a large extent replaced indigenous European males and their Y-chromosome strata. This indicates military expansion. Conquest. This genetic evidence indicates that several Y-chromosomal (patrilineal) lineages, one of which was the Indian-origin R1a1a, gave rise to the modern European population. Out of these lineages, R1a1a is the most widespread and numerous.




All of these find no mention in reichs genetic study brigade . Academic research papers must cite all research that is relevant to their work, even if it contradicts their findings and if reichs truthful enough and free from any bias (in which case they must prove that their work improves upon, or disproves that of their predecessors). Thats why reich whose study you quote was criticized and condemned and questioned upon by fellow researchers as well for his prejudiced agenda isnt it .
Also what a joker of a gentic expert one could be that in his paper titled “Massive Migration from the Steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe” that makes the dubious claim of being able
to associate language (and culture) with DNA. It purports to support the hypothesis that the steppe Yamnaya culture represents the origin of Indo-European (IE) languages and culture.
This paper's conclusions have been thoroughly and conclusively demolished by the legendary Russian archaeologist Leo Klejn in two papers published in Acta Archaeologica and the European Journal of Archaeology. Also LOL at this damning new york times article that exposes shocking malpractices in the ancient DNA research ecosystem, reduces reich’s scientific reputation to dust and discredits nearly every piece of research he and his team have published liken to the Final nail in his coffin. (See - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/magazine/ancient-dna-paleogenomics.html)



Given all this I think you should seriously introspect brother and not blind believe in bigoted school yard outcast racists delusional brigade claims.

In the end I would like to tag @Chhatrapati if he has something to add
Regards....
 
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