India: World's Largest Mobocracy

[masterchief_mirza]

Could then it have generated such a large population drive towards India such that there could ever have been such a mass admixture with the Indian population?

Again, you ignore my dismantling of your "but but but the numbers in India are too great but but but" theory. Only a few Aryans were needed to own and enslave subcontinent females and sire multiple families. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend? The formal journal authors have hinted at this but because of your perpetual hindutva inferiority complex, you simply deny that it was ever possible. You need look no further than modern India, where Dalit females remain an object of abuse for lighter skinned upper castes. The circumstantial evidence exists in front of you. It is no stretch of the imagination to expect that this form of enslavement occurred millennia ago.

DID A HUGE FRAUD

Not interested in your character assassinations, as I've already said.

" Interestingly, both the ANI and ASI
ancestry components of the Indian populations are found to
harbour higher haplotypic diversity than those predominant in
west Eurasia. The shared genetic affinity between the ANI
component of northern India and west Eurasia was dated prior
to the Aryan invasion (Metspalu et al. 2011). These realities
suggest the rejection of the Aryan invasion hypothesis but
support an ancient demographic history of India."

Now this is the core of your argument from the Indian authored paper you mentioned. This statement illustrates the butthurt you and other hindutva types feel perpetually and will try to wriggle out of by any available means.

ANI was always postulated as retaining an ASI contribution, even by Reich. Read the relevant excerpts from the Metspalu paper that you and your Indian boys have simply interpreted in their own agenda-driven way:

"Through admixture between an ancestral south Indian (ASI) gene pool, this ANI variation was found to have contributed significantly to the extant makeup of not only north (50%–70%) but also south Indian populations (>40%). "

In other words, of course ANI and ASI will share this common feature of having higher haplotypic diversity simply because of the ASI contribution to ANI that everyone here already knows about. ASI shagged people to their east and north because that's what people do. That doesn't obviate the conclusions drawn elsewhere that an Aryan movement also contributed to ANI.

point is: your report cannot under any circumstance show that such immigrants brought in the Sanskrit language, religion and culture,

Ridiculous. There are two options to the origins of Sanskrit - out of India or into India. We know the IVC didn't use Sanskrit. We also know Sanskrit is related to Europe via the indo-European language family. How did it emerge from India in ancient times (I.e. well before 3000 years b.c. which is the genealogical proposal put forward by your references for the ancient genetic admixture point between Aryans and indigenous Indians), then stimulate European languages while the IVC was slap bang in the way? The only plausible explanation is that someone brought Sanskrit into India when the IVC declined.

Your kind says that "Vedas were rantings of nomadic steppe as they invaded and plundered India" , yet vedas speak of 7 rivers the oceanic universe , even all your basic terms karma , dhyana , mantra yoga , rishi prana and thar equivalent terms is already in the ancient vedic text

Don't put words into my mouth and falsely attribute your unrefined jingoism to me. Vedas were no such thing. They were a syncretic amalgamation of the enslaver and the enslaved world views. The Ptolemaics had already done such a thing in Egypt, adopting wholesale the rites and philosophy of the enslaved or conquered, while creating local variations of Gods and beliefs. Romans and Greeks did this. All invading groups do this. Even Hinduism has laid claim itself to Buddhism, Sikhism and allsorts within the Hindustani nexus, as a mechanism of subtle mental subterfuge. This is nothing new or peculiar. That Aryan enslavers sought to rebalance their philosophies with local ones is no dumb thing. It works well with religious tenets that are malleable and animistic. Different locations have different "variations" of a common root belief system as an adaptation, nothing more dramatic.

Essentially, your tactic is a disappointing one. You create a false projection of ridiculous and antiquated b.s. and attribute it to me without any justification other than your attempt to discredit me into the realm of fantasy. In reality, my conclusions are reasonable and valid, not in this fantastical realm you seek to attribute me to.

Never mind that, your petty insults towards me - which you can't seem to avoid - speak volumes about your motivations.

The big problem you're going to be stuck with is that every single one of your supposed sources is infiltrated by bias and self-serving agendas. I have mentioned elsewhere in this thread instances of Indian government funding for certain authors of "scholarly" work regarding all of the above issues,despite the glaringly obvious conflict of interest. Meanwhile, folks from China to the USA point fingers at out-of-India nonsense routinely, despite having ZERO vested interest in discrediting it, and instead seek scholastic truth, as opposed to your propagandised interpretations.

(PDF) The Aryan Controversy Decided? Ancient India between the Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization (Review Essay on Asko Parpola's The Roots of Hinduism)

PDF | Abstract: What are the prehistoric sources of Brahminic Hinduism and Ancient Indian Civilization? The attempts to answer this question have given... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

"
Although the IVC certainly predates the RVIA migrations from Central Asia by several millennia, the IVC was already in drastic decline by the second millennia BCE, when the RVIA tribes arrived in the Punjab; and the RVIA invasion of the Indus Valley resulted in a drastic transformation of the Harappan culture, whereby Brahminic Vedic sacrificial ritualism and the Sanskrit language were imposed upon the Harappan population. But the RVIA tribes were a small elite minority among the Harappan population, and within another thousand years, the Harappan population had swamped the RVIA invaders, resulting in the reemergence of the Pre-Rig Vedic Mesopotamian and Harappan elements which make up the greater part of 'village Hinduism.' After many thousand years of conquests of the Indian subcontinent by the RVIAs, the Greeks, the Mongols, the Mughals, and the British Empire, contemporary Hinduism thus testifies to the survival of Harappan (IVC) culture in the 21st Century Republic of India (est. 1947-1950)."

Let me make one further point. Part of your inference throughout your exchange with me has been reliant on discrediting the "Aryan invasion/enslavement theory" (I agree it may have been a peaceful enslavement by the way with minimal evidence of resistance from the native bushmen of the gangetic plains. After all, if you can't beat em...etc) by ranting on about how wrong Reich is and how Aryan DNA entered Hindustan long before the proposed Steppe-lander invasion around the decline of the IVC. In this regard, it is actually you who has become overly reliant on your own anthropological citations. You have simply assumed that even if there were multiple points of historical "entry" of Aryan DNA into the north Indian pool, that this automatically negates the possibility of at least one group of Aryans deciding to enter with malicious intent, destroy the IVC and scatter its people and enslave your own masters. Your effort is pure propagandisation of interpretation of scholarly effort, and is duly noted. The stark summation of linguistic, genetic and anthropological (including the development of rigvedic brahminist beliefs) points to a very high likelihood that at least ONE GROUP of Aryan foreigners came to the subcontinent with the intention of domination culturally, linguistically, dynastically and socially. This is ample food for thought while you mill around trying to eternally prove Aryans didn't all come at a precise point in time into the fertile gangetic plains. It's very plausible, and perhaps fitting, that the Steppe land aggressors came multiple times into ma Bharat. They only needed to do it aggressively once - and the whole subcontinent was subdued.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Could then it have generated such a large population drive towards India such that there could ever have been such a mass admixture with the Indian population?

Again, you ignore my dismantling of your "but but but the numbers in India are too great but but but" theory. Only a few Aryans were needed to own and enslave subcontinent females and sire multiple families. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend? The formal journal authors have hinted at this but because of your perpetual hindutva inferiority complex, you simply deny that it was ever possible. You need look no further than modern India, where Dalit females remain an object of abuse for lighter skinned upper castes. The circumstantial evidence exists in front of you. It is no stretch of the imagination to expect that this form of enslavement occurred millennia ago.

DID A HUGE FRAUD

Not interested in your character assassinations, as I've already said.

" Interestingly, both the ANI and ASI
ancestry components of the Indian populations are found to
harbour higher haplotypic diversity than those predominant in
west Eurasia. The shared genetic affinity between the ANI
component of northern India and west Eurasia was dated prior
to the Aryan invasion (Metspalu et al. 2011). These realities
suggest the rejection of the Aryan invasion hypothesis but
support an ancient demographic history of India."

Now this is the core of your argument from the Indian authored paper you mentioned. This statement illustrates the butthurt you and other hindutva types feel perpetually and will try to wriggle out of by any available means.

ANI was always postulated as retaining an ASI contribution, even by Reich. Read the relevant excerpts from the Metspalu paper that you and your Indian boys have simply interpreted in their own agenda-driven way:

"Through admixture between an ancestral south Indian (ASI) gene pool, this ANI variation was found to have contributed significantly to the extant makeup of not only north (50%–70%) but also south Indian populations (>40%). "

In other words, of course ANI and ASI will share this common feature of having higher haplotypic diversity simply because of the ASI contribution to ANI that everyone here already knows about. ASI shagged people to their east and north because that's what people do. That doesn't obviate the conclusions drawn elsewhere that an Aryan movement also contributed to ANI.

point is: your report cannot under any circumstance show that such immigrants brought in the Sanskrit language, religion and culture,

Ridiculous. There are two options to the origins of Sanskrit - out of India or into India. We know the IVC didn't use Sanskrit. We also know Sanskrit is related to Europe via the indo-European language family. How did it emerge from India in ancient times (I.e. well before 3000 years b.c. which is the genealogical proposal put forward by your references for the ancient genetic admixture point between Aryans and indigenous Indians), then stimulate European languages while the IVC was slap bang in the way? The only plausible explanation is that someone brought Sanskrit into India when the IVC declined.

Your kind says that "Vedas were rantings of nomadic steppe as they invaded and plundered India" , yet vedas speak of 7 rivers the oceanic universe , even all your basic terms karma , dhyana , mantra yoga , rishi prana and thar equivalent terms is already in the ancient vedic text

Don't put words into my mouth and falsely attribute your unrefined jingoism to me. Vedas were no such thing. They were a syncretic amalgamation of the enslaver and the enslaved world views. The Ptolemaics had already done such a thing in Egypt, adopting wholesale the rites and philosophy of the enslaved or conquered, while creating local variations of Gods and beliefs. Romans and Greeks did this. All invading groups do this. Even Hinduism has laid claim itself to Buddhism, Sikhism and allsorts within the Hindustani nexus, as a mechanism of subtle mental subterfuge. This is nothing new or peculiar. That Aryan enslavers sought to rebalance their philosophies with local ones is no dumb thing. It works well with religious tenets that are malleable and animistic. Different locations have different "variations" of a common root belief system as an adaptation, nothing more dramatic.

Essentially, your tactic is a disappointing one. You create a false projection of ridiculous and antiquated b.s. and attribute it to me without any justification other than your attempt to discredit me into the realm of fantasy. In reality, my conclusions are reasonable and valid, not in this fantastical realm you seek to attribute me to.

Never mind that, your petty insults towards me - which you can't seem to avoid - speak volumes about your motivations.

The big problem you're going to be stuck with is that every single one of your supposed sources is infiltrated by bias and self-serving agendas. I have mentioned elsewhere in this thread instances of Indian government funding for certain authors of "scholarly" work regarding all of the above issues,despite the glaringly obvious conflict of interest. Meanwhile, folks from China to the USA point fingers at out-of-India nonsense routinely, despite having ZERO vested interest in discrediting it, and instead seek scholastic truth, as opposed to your propagandised interpretations.

(PDF) The Aryan Controversy Decided? Ancient India between the Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization (Review Essay on Asko Parpola's The Roots of Hinduism)

PDF | Abstract: What are the prehistoric sources of Brahminic Hinduism and Ancient Indian Civilization? The attempts to answer this question have given... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

"
Although the IVC certainly predates the RVIA migrations from Central Asia by several millennia, the IVC was already in drastic decline by the second millennia BCE, when the RVIA tribes arrived in the Punjab; and the RVIA invasion of the Indus Valley resulted in a drastic transformation of the Harappan culture, whereby Brahminic Vedic sacrificial ritualism and the Sanskrit language were imposed upon the Harappan population. But the RVIA tribes were a small elite minority among the Harappan population, and within another thousand years, the Harappan population had swamped the RVIA invaders, resulting in the reemergence of the Pre-Rig Vedic Mesopotamian and Harappan elements which make up the greater part of 'village Hinduism.' After many thousand years of conquests of the Indian subcontinent by the RVIAs, the Greeks, the Mongols, the Mughals, and the British Empire, contemporary Hinduism thus testifies to the survival of Harappan (IVC) culture in the 21st Century Republic of India (est. 1947-1950)."

Let me make one further point. Part of your inference throughout your exchange with me has been reliant on discrediting the "Aryan invasion/enslavement theory" (I agree it may have been a peaceful enslavement by the way with minimal evidence of resistance from the native bushmen of the gangetic plains. After all, if you can't beat em...etc) by ranting on about how wrong Reich is and how Aryan DNA entered Hindustan long before the proposed Steppe-lander invasion around the decline of the IVC. In this regard, it is actually you who has become overly reliant on your own anthropological citations. You have simply assumed that even if there were multiple points of historical "entry" of Aryan DNA into the north Indian pool, that this automatically negates the possibility of at least one group of Aryans deciding to enter with malicious intent, destroy the IVC and scatter its people and enslave your own masters. Your effort is pure propagandisation of interpretation of scholarly effort, and is duly noted. The stark summation of linguistic, genetic and anthropological (including the development of rigvedic brahminist beliefs) points to a very high likelihood that at least ONE GROUP of Aryan foreigners came to the subcontinent with the intention of domination culturally, linguistically, dynastically and socially. This is ample food for thought while you mill around trying to eternally prove Aryans didn't all come at a precise point in time into the fertile gangetic plains. It's very plausible, and perhaps fitting, that the Steppe land aggressors came multiple times into ma Bharat. They only needed to do it aggressively once - and the whole subcontinent was subdued.

 

[rngsama]

What you talking about? I referred to examples of outnumbered but technologically and socially superior invaders enslaving (in the case of the Indian subcontinent) or destroying (in the case of south America) indigenous populations (however you choose to interpret "indigenous"). You're talking about something completely different.

The supposed western superiority you talk about is a very recent and a transient phenomenon . You tried to compare latin american conquests proably of aztec mayans empires with advanced civilizations of Asia like china and or saraswati - being oldest and grandest .Aztec and Inca empires nobodys ever even heard of neither were the vast to the extent saraswati and or mesopotamoia or chinese are .This is evident infact from the fact that the only period of time where the supposedly superior west even had an edge over proper civilisations of Asia, i.e. during the 18-20th (this is also when they coined migration larp)century is also the time they looted and raided the Asian civilisations to enrich their pathetic decadent societies.This is not anything new to known Human history of 8000 years. Indians and Chinese were
living in large cities in saraswati valley and yangtze river by 3000BCE, whenyour so called superiors were still running half naked in alps even in 7th century. Asia was the centre of arts, culture, science, philosophy, religion for most of Human history.India was the centre of the world for religion, arts, culture, science and philosophy, having also taught the other South East Asian countries like, Japanese and Chinese.

Infact .

There was heavy trade between India & Rome via Red Sea by 1st cent AD, after the fall of Rome, India still continued trading with other countries.
By the time of Augustus up to 120 ships set sail every year from Rome to India.
-G. Dumézil, French Philologist

Do you know why Columbus called America as India? Columbus was sent to the west and Vasco De Gama to the East because a major land trade route was cut off
by Ottoman Empire and the Europeans set out to find a ay through sea to the Indian ports,

Chapter 1 – The Closing of the Old Trade Paths

Volume 6 of a nine-volume series covering the entire history of the Indian subcontinent from the earliest period up to the date of publication, in the first decade of the 20th century.

www.ibiblio.org

Indian ports were so well established in 2334 BCE that there was major trade between India and Sargon of Akkad

Indo-Mesopotamia relations - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This happened when your west hadn't even started on the way to be civilized. There existed many civilizations before them.This is a reconstruction of a 4000 years old international sea port of India known as Lothal, which was found in 20th century excavations.
It is located somewhat to the South where Indo-europeans hadn't even reached by that time(if we assume that the Larp is true)

"The world's earliest known dockyard. The canal was artificially constructed to handle berth and service ships from Egypt and Mesopotamia.
The dockyard has an area of 37×22 meters. It is the greatest work of maritime architecture before the birth of christ."
But the products of anglican church as I told you believed that yahweh created world in 4004 bce and destroyed the world in
noahs flood in 3000 bce and nothing could have survived the flood event LOL.

That being said , the western spike in living standards during the 18th century was a result of conquest by military and not because of ideas or superiority of culture. Fun fact , Btw the current momin issue they face and often whine about is the result of WW2, they literally killed themselves in such record quantities that it fucked the wage scale,and they had to import the most 60 IQ momins from Algeria, Central Turkey, and jahil places like mirpur to work in their factories for a "reasonable" price.
They keep whining to me this constant lowering white population . Imagine being so materialistic and self indulgentthat they can’t even bring themselves to have enough children to replace themselves and have to import those immigrants from desert lmao !

Why are so many needed to overwhelm a backwards civilisation? This whole argument is pure CONJECTURE to suit your narrative. That's what I said before but you are providing your own fanciful interpretation of what I posited.

You will keep denying the possibility, the mere notion that pale skinned taller and more powerful people swept into Hindustan with advanced warmongering techniques because you are so butthurt by this possibility, never mind the countless organisations who teach this as accepted fact. The reason 'out of India" has not taken root outside of India as a theory of the origins of brahminist ideology is that the evidence suggests otherwise for the majority of those involved in this field. You can keep denying it but you remain a vocal minority, just like flat earthers and the rest of your type.

Stop using that word conecture. What is a backward civilization and ? Oh wait they dont teach history in your text books .

Pakistani textbooks controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You love posting research papers . You should find this interesting too

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329169562_Historical_Revisionism_in_Pakistani_Textbooks_A_Case_Study_of_Public_School_Curriculum

Or is it indeed you consider them to be superior because they conquered others, then so should be the Mongolian barbarians under Gengiz Khan who As in 1221 Genghis Khan pushed forward a steamroller that flattened much of Eurasia. His descendents carried forward the conquest of new of lands to the west.
These lands were momin dominated, this led to the vicious killing of momins vicious slaughter .
Genghis or his descendents were equally ruthless against europeans.

You're playing games now. Again, EXTRAPOLATION OF A NEGATIVE INFERENCE ON THE BASIS OF ABSENCE. In other words, absence of documentation doesn't prove absence. There are myriad political reasons for neglecting deliberately to comment on past history in a book intended to reeducate a subject population to yield to the will of a new ruling class. Not every socioreligious construct pays homage to a distant past or point of origin. If I was an invading Aryan, I would gladly forget my past in order to subvert my new subjects into a life of absolute slavery.

Rigvedic literature in its own stands as an evidence of the antiquity and sophistication of the vedic culture and a bunch of nomadic steppe cucks could even
produce and sustain it for thousands of years . Thars just no damn text in steppe
Infact they had to cook up a fraud language pie using the same Vedic Sanskrit because its the only data thats available . LOL "absence of documentation doesnt prove absence" in the same breath the very "absence of documentation dont prove absence of unicorn in your bedroom right now" .
And you want to be invading aryan in your fairy tales I see . Well Think again, arschloch. As vee speak I am also contacting mein secret network of spies across Deutschland and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for ze storm, blodel. Ze storm zat wipes out ze pathetic little thing you call your life ein truelose und fegelinge . I have access to ze entire arsenal of ze Wehrmacht forces and I will use
it to its full extent to wipe your miserable arsch off ze face of ze Reich . Good larp . But the thing is you dont prove shit with larp .


Dont talk about mirrors flat earther I know why this is coming from you due to perpetual butthurt and buttseks of the lifetimes so evident that no matter how much you whine and trying to post our people and culture as of , you will not be able to name a single empire of kngdom indiginous to paksitan
that ruled significant parts of modern day India,like how Gangetic empires ruled over pakistan. For the vast majority of its 10,000 year history, modern India was ruled by foreign powers for barely 500 years and endured. Whereas you was invaded and conquered by everyone who passed by .Besides, just because muslims ruled over India doesn't mean you ruled over India. Just because you people don't have any accomplishments of your own, you try to steal other people's accomplishments. Do you see French whining to take credit for accomplishments of Alexander the great just because theyare Christian? Or do you see Brits try to take credit for Napolean's conquests just because they are Christian? No, you people are the only ones.Mughals were from central asia, even persians are not considered central asians, let alone you brownies. Its actually as retarded as someone from pakistanis christians converted got brit visa and then start to claim we also ruled India .

Kek you will surely get me banned .

You can believe an alternative hypothesis if you wish. Flat earthers are quite similar.

Says T. flat earther by "absence of documentation doesnt disprove absence"

Other examples of flat earther who coined superior aryan race :

I did not say your papers were 'outdated' but that they had been superseded. Try to understand.

I have no need to dodge your empty narrative generation, your denial of validated theorisations, your rejection of a consensus of research and your bizarre obsession with depicting the absence of documentation as evidence of absence. Lastly I didn't bully anyone on this thread or anywhere else. If you think I did, report me. If you get me banned for preaching truth, it's your loss ultimately.

Research papers dont supersede anything as if you are implying that all of my research papers are a decade old which is not the case. Reichs claims that most recent common ancestor is 4000 years old (muh genesis lord creating world ). I have shown you evidence and same research papers
that show just by "diffrent kind of sampling" show the most recent common ancestors is 15000 years old . LOL . And I even showed you revelations of nyt which to this point stand valid . And as I told earlier his paper titled “ Migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe” that makes
the dubious claim of being able to associate language (and culture) with DNA that purports to support the hypothesis that the steppe yamnaya culture representsthe origin of Indo-european languages and culture. This paper's conclusions have been thoroughly and conclusively demolished by the legendary Russian archaeologist Leo Klejnin two papers published in Acta Archaeologica and the European Journal of Archaeology.

And hence gratuitous conclusion that the Harappan people were not speaking Indo-European languages, because these languages only entered India with steppe immigrants after 2000 BCE, cannot be proved by any amount of genetic data and quibbling.Also , Neeraj Rai and Thangraj CCMB Hyderbad in 2019 noted that It was envisioned that the Indus-Periphery-related groups admixed with the steppe MLBA immigrants toform the ANI, while other Indus Periphery people migrated further south and eastward within peninsular India to mingle with AASI and formed the ASI . Thus, the ASI ancestry appears to be mostly derived from Aasi. While the obvious limitation to the above-mentioned aDNA study was unavailability of ancient South Asian genomes, so they here endeavored to overcome this by implementing three samples from Turan, Infact , Thangraj notes The tropical environs of the Indian sub continent inherently obstruct aDNA studies due to the problems in securing well-preserved biological materials that can potentially yield good-quality DNA. However, given that it has become increasingly possible to obtain endogenous aDNA from petrousbones found in hot tropical conditions, it is expected that relevant information will soon become available from South AsianaDNA analysis, which is anticipated to provide invaluable direct insights to our own prehistory. Finally, from the sameCCMB in 2019 Thangaraj and Rai reflected, meaningful aDNA analyses demand large-scale interdisciplinary collaborations bringing together
population geneticists, anthropologists, archeologists and even linguists . And this hasnt arrived yet .




Unless and until the Harappan script is deciphered and proves the language to be non-Indo-european,
the only valid evidence to decide the language of the Saraswati civilization is the data for the chronology and geography of the Rigveda (backed by irrefutable archaeological evidence ofcourse),which presents an irrefutable case showing that the entire Saraswati area, as well as areas to the far east of it were purely Indo-European language speaking areas from well before 3000 BCE.
Not to mention that "Artefacts found at the archaeological site in Keezhadi, about 12 km from Madurai in Tamil Nadu,have been found, with “graffiti marks” on them pointing to a continuity in script from the Saraswati Civilisation.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

The supposed western superiority you talk about is a very recent and a transient phenomenon . You tried to compare latin american conquests proably of aztec mayans empires with advanced civilizations of Asia like china and or saraswati - being oldest and grandest .Aztec and Inca empires nobodys ever even heard of neither were the vast to the extent saraswati and or mesopotamoia or chinese are .This is evident infact from the fact that the only period of time where the supposedly superior west even had an edge over proper civilisations of Asia, i.e. during the 18-20th (this is also when they coined migration larp)century is also the time they looted and raided the Asian civilisations to enrich their pathetic decadent societies.This is not anything new to known Human history of 8000 years. Indians and Chinese were
living in large cities in saraswati valley and yangtze river by 3000BCE, whenyour so called superiors were still running half naked in alps even in 7th century. Asia was the centre of arts, culture, science, philosophy, religion for most of Human history.India was the centre of the world for religion, arts, culture, science and philosophy, having also taught the other South East Asian countries like, Japanese and Chinese.

View attachment 681272

Infact .

There was heavy trade between India & Rome via Red Sea by 1st cent AD, after the fall of Rome, India still continued trading with other countries.
By the time of Augustus up to 120 ships set sail every year from Rome to India.
-G. Dumézil, French Philologist

Do you know why Columbus called America as India? Columbus was sent to the west and Vasco De Gama to the East because a major land trade route was cut off
by Ottoman Empire and the Europeans set out to find a ay through sea to the Indian ports,

Chapter 1 – The Closing of the Old Trade Paths

Volume 6 of a nine-volume series covering the entire history of the Indian subcontinent from the earliest period up to the date of publication, in the first decade of the 20th century.

www.ibiblio.org

Indian ports were so well established in 2334 BCE that there was major trade between India and Sargon of Akkad

Indo-Mesopotamia relations - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

View attachment 681273

This happened when your west hadn't even started on the way to be civilized. There existed many civilizations before them.This is a reconstruction of a 4000 years old international sea port of India known as Lothal, which was found in 20th century excavations.
It is located somewhat to the South where Indo-europeans hadn't even reached by that time(if we assume that the Larp is true)

"The world's earliest known dockyard. The canal was artificially constructed to handle berth and service ships from Egypt and Mesopotamia.
The dockyard has an area of 37×22 meters. It is the greatest work of maritime architecture before the birth of christ."
But the products of anglican church as I told you believed that yahweh created world in 4004 bce and destroyed the world in
noahs flood in 3000 bce and nothing could have survived the flood event LOL.

That being said , the western spike in living standards during the 18th century was a result of conquest by military and not because of ideas or superiority of culture. Fun fact , Btw the current momin issue they face and often whine about is the result of WW2, they literally killed themselves in such record quantities that it fucked the wage scale,and they had to import the most 60 IQ momins from Algeria, Central Turkey, and jahil places like mirpur to work in their factories for a "reasonable" price.
They keep whining to me this constant lowering white population . Imagine being so materialistic and self indulgentthat they can’t even bring themselves to have enough children to replace themselves and have to import those immigrants from desert lmao !



Stop using that word conecture. What is a backward civilization and ? Oh wait they dont teach history in your text books .

Pakistani textbooks controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You love posting research papers . You should find this interesting too

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329169562_Historical_Revisionism_in_Pakistani_Textbooks_A_Case_Study_of_Public_School_Curriculum

Or is it indeed you consider them to be superior because they conquered others, then so should be the Mongolian barbarians under Gengiz Khan who As in 1221 Genghis Khan pushed forward a steamroller that flattened much of Eurasia. His descendents carried forward the conquest of new of lands to the west.
These lands were momin dominated, this led to the vicious killing of momins vicious slaughter .
Genghis or his descendents were equally ruthless against europeans.



Rigvedic literature in its own stands as an evidence of the antiquity and sophistication of the vedic culture and a bunch of nomadic steppe cucks could even
produce and sustain it for thousands of years . Thars just no damn text in steppe
Infact they had to cook up a fraud language pie using the same Vedic Sanskrit because its the only data thats available . LOL "absence of documentation doesnt prove absence" in the same breath the very "absence of documentation dont prove absence of unicorn in your bedroom right now" .
And you want to be invading aryan in your fairy tales I see . Well Think again, arschloch. As vee speak I am also contacting mein secret network of spies across Deutschland and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for ze storm, blodel. Ze storm zat wipes out ze pathetic little thing you call your life ein truelose und fegelinge . I have access to ze entire arsenal of ze Wehrmacht forces and I will use
it to its full extent to wipe your miserable arsch off ze face of ze Reich . Good larp . But the thing is you dont prove shit with larp .


Dont talk about mirrors flat earther I know why this is coming from you due to perpetual butthurt and buttseks of the lifetimes so evident that no matter how much you whine and trying to post our people and culture as of , you will not be able to name a single empire of kngdom indiginous to paksitan
that ruled significant parts of modern day India,like how Gangetic empires ruled over pakistan. For the vast majority of its 10,000 year history, modern India was ruled by foreign powers for barely 500 years and endured. Whereas you was invaded and conquered by everyone who passed by .Besides, just because muslims ruled over India doesn't mean you ruled over India. Just because you people don't have any accomplishments of your own, you try to steal other people's accomplishments. Do you see French whining to take credit for accomplishments of Alexander the great just because theyare Christian? Or do you see Brits try to take credit for Napolean's conquests just because they are Christian? No, you people are the only ones.Mughals were from central asia, even persians are not considered central asians, let alone you brownies. Its actually as retarded as someone from pakistanis christians converted got brit visa and then start to claim we also ruled India .

Kek you will surely get me banned .



Says T. flat earther by "absence of documentation doesnt disprove absence"

Other examples of flat earther who coined superior aryan race :

View attachment 681274




Research papers dont supersede anything as if you are implying that all of my research papers are a decade old which is not the case. Reichs claims that most recent common ancestor is 4000 years old (muh genesis lord creating world ). I have shown you evidence and same research papers
that show just by "diffrent kind of sampling" show the most recent common ancestors is 15000 years old . LOL . And I even showed you revelations of nyt which to this point stand valid . And as I told earlier his paper titled “ Migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe” that makes
the dubious claim of being able to associate language (and culture) with DNA that purports to support the hypothesis that the steppe yamnaya culture representsthe origin of Indo-european languages and culture. This paper's conclusions have been thoroughly and conclusively demolished by the legendary Russian archaeologist Leo Klejnin two papers published in Acta Archaeologica and the European Journal of Archaeology.

And hence gratuitous conclusion that the Harappan people were not speaking Indo-European languages, because these languages only entered India with steppe immigrants after 2000 BCE, cannot be proved by any amount of genetic data and quibbling.Also , Neeraj Rai and Thangraj CCMB Hyderbad in 2019 noted that It was envisioned that the Indus-Periphery-related groups admixed with the steppe MLBA immigrants toform the ANI, while other Indus Periphery people migrated further south and eastward within peninsular India to mingle with AASI and formed the ASI . Thus, the ASI ancestry appears to be mostly derived from Aasi. While the obvious limitation to the above-mentioned aDNA study was unavailability of ancient South Asian genomes, so they here endeavored to overcome this by implementing three samples from Turan, Infact , Thangraj notes The tropical environs of the Indian sub continent inherently obstruct aDNA studies due to the problems in securing well-preserved biological materials that can potentially yield good-quality DNA. However, given that it has become increasingly possible to obtain endogenous aDNA from petrousbones found in hot tropical conditions, it is expected that relevant information will soon become available from South AsianaDNA analysis, which is anticipated to provide invaluable direct insights to our own prehistory. Finally, from the sameCCMB in 2019 Thangaraj and Rai reflected, meaningful aDNA analyses demand large-scale interdisciplinary collaborations bringing together
population geneticists, anthropologists, archeologists and even linguists . And this hasnt arrived yet .




Unless and until the Harappan script is deciphered and proves the language to be non-Indo-european,
the only valid evidence to decide the language of the Saraswati civilization is the data for the chronology and geography of the Rigveda (backed by irrefutable archaeological evidence ofcourse),which presents an irrefutable case showing that the entire Saraswati area, as well as areas to the far east of it were purely Indo-European language speaking areas from well before 3000 BCE.
Not to mention that "Artefacts found at the archaeological site in Keezhadi, about 12 km from Madurai in Tamil Nadu,have been found, with “graffiti marks” on them pointing to a continuity in script from the Saraswati Civilisation.

Twat. Ancient subcontinental trade peaked with the IVC and Goa, not northern elephant riders from your ancestry. Under Aurangzeb, "India" became the the greatest economy in the pre-industrial world, surpassing the Chinese. The IVC descendants mixed with your bushman stock before, during and after the decline of the IVC. Your own genetic theories show this. You bushmen have been fathered by everyone it would seem.

Nothing worth anybody's while emerged from the floodplains of the Ganges.

And you're entire post is dedicated to gangetics dominating The IVC/??

You're rants are a joke and your personal insults are hilarious....for about two seconds.

I look forward to you tracking me down personally. I cannot wait to carve you a new genome in fact.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

For the vast majority of its 10,000 year history, modern India was ruled by foreign powers for barely 500 years and endured. Whereas you was invaded and conquered by everyone who passed by .Besides, just because muslims ruled over India doesn't mean you ruled over India.

Lol. The true butthurt history dweller reveals himself. IVC was too advanced to bother with your tree dwelling society to the east. We interacted in a westerly direction with other likeminded nations. As for the Afghan and Mughal subjugations of Hindustan, why are you so butthurt if it "doesn't count as a Pakistani victory"?

Your kind are very predictable. Don't stop on my account.

 

[Gadkari]

The supposed western superiority you talk about is a very recent and a transient phenomenon . You tried to compare latin american conquests proably of aztec mayans empires with advanced civilizations of Asia like china and or saraswati - being oldest and grandest .Aztec and Inca empires nobodys ever even heard of neither were the vast to the extent saraswati and or mesopotamoia or chinese are .This is evident infact from the fact that the only period of time where the supposedly superior west even had an edge over proper civilisations of Asia, i.e. during the 18-20th (this is also when they coined migration larp)century is also the time they looted and raided the Asian civilisations to enrich their pathetic decadent societies.This is not anything new to known Human history of 8000 years. Indians and Chinese were
living in large cities in saraswati valley and yangtze river by 3000BCE, whenyour so called superiors were still running half naked in alps even in 7th century. Asia was the centre of arts, culture, science, philosophy, religion for most of Human history.India was the centre of the world for religion, arts, culture, science and philosophy, having also taught the other South East Asian countries like, Japanese and Chinese.

View attachment 681272

Infact .

There was heavy trade between India & Rome via Red Sea by 1st cent AD, after the fall of Rome, India still continued trading with other countries.
By the time of Augustus up to 120 ships set sail every year from Rome to India.
-G. Dumézil, French Philologist

Do you know why Columbus called America as India? Columbus was sent to the west and Vasco De Gama to the East because a major land trade route was cut off
by Ottoman Empire and the Europeans set out to find a ay through sea to the Indian ports,

Chapter 1 – The Closing of the Old Trade Paths

Volume 6 of a nine-volume series covering the entire history of the Indian subcontinent from the earliest period up to the date of publication, in the first decade of the 20th century.

www.ibiblio.org

Indian ports were so well established in 2334 BCE that there was major trade between India and Sargon of Akkad

Indo-Mesopotamia relations - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

View attachment 681273

This happened when your west hadn't even started on the way to be civilized. There existed many civilizations before them.This is a reconstruction of a 4000 years old international sea port of India known as Lothal, which was found in 20th century excavations.
It is located somewhat to the South where Indo-europeans hadn't even reached by that time(if we assume that the Larp is true)

"The world's earliest known dockyard. The canal was artificially constructed to handle berth and service ships from Egypt and Mesopotamia.
The dockyard has an area of 37×22 meters. It is the greatest work of maritime architecture before the birth of christ."
But the products of anglican church as I told you believed that yahweh created world in 4004 bce and destroyed the world in
noahs flood in 3000 bce and nothing could have survived the flood event LOL.

That being said , the western spike in living standards during the 18th century was a result of conquest by military and not because of ideas or superiority of culture. Fun fact , Btw the current momin issue they face and often whine about is the result of WW2, they literally killed themselves in such record quantities that it fucked the wage scale,and they had to import the most 60 IQ momins from Algeria, Central Turkey, and jahil places like mirpur to work in their factories for a "reasonable" price.
They keep whining to me this constant lowering white population . Imagine being so materialistic and self indulgentthat they can’t even bring themselves to have enough children to replace themselves and have to import those immigrants from desert lmao !



Stop using that word conecture. What is a backward civilization and ? Oh wait they dont teach history in your text books .

Pakistani textbooks controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You love posting research papers . You should find this interesting too

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329169562_Historical_Revisionism_in_Pakistani_Textbooks_A_Case_Study_of_Public_School_Curriculum

Or is it indeed you consider them to be superior because they conquered others, then so should be the Mongolian barbarians under Gengiz Khan who As in 1221 Genghis Khan pushed forward a steamroller that flattened much of Eurasia. His descendents carried forward the conquest of new of lands to the west.
These lands were momin dominated, this led to the vicious killing of momins vicious slaughter .
Genghis or his descendents were equally ruthless against europeans.



Rigvedic literature in its own stands as an evidence of the antiquity and sophistication of the vedic culture and a bunch of nomadic steppe cucks could even
produce and sustain it for thousands of years . Thars just no damn text in steppe
Infact they had to cook up a fraud language pie using the same Vedic Sanskrit because its the only data thats available . LOL "absence of documentation doesnt prove absence" in the same breath the very "absence of documentation dont prove absence of unicorn in your bedroom right now" .
And you want to be invading aryan in your fairy tales I see . Well Think again, arschloch. As vee speak I am also contacting mein secret network of spies across Deutschland and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for ze storm, blodel. Ze storm zat wipes out ze pathetic little thing you call your life ein truelose und fegelinge . I have access to ze entire arsenal of ze Wehrmacht forces and I will use
it to its full extent to wipe your miserable arsch off ze face of ze Reich . Good larp . But the thing is you dont prove shit with larp .


Dont talk about mirrors flat earther I know why this is coming from you due to perpetual butthurt and buttseks of the lifetimes so evident that no matter how much you whine and trying to post our people and culture as of , you will not be able to name a single empire of kngdom indiginous to paksitan
that ruled significant parts of modern day India,like how Gangetic empires ruled over pakistan. For the vast majority of its 10,000 year history, modern India was ruled by foreign powers for barely 500 years and endured. Whereas you was invaded and conquered by everyone who passed by .Besides, just because muslims ruled over India doesn't mean you ruled over India. Just because you people don't have any accomplishments of your own, you try to steal other people's accomplishments. Do you see French whining to take credit for accomplishments of Alexander the great just because theyare Christian? Or do you see Brits try to take credit for Napolean's conquests just because they are Christian? No, you people are the only ones.Mughals were from central asia, even persians are not considered central asians, let alone you brownies. Its actually as retarded as someone from pakistanis christians converted got brit visa and then start to claim we also ruled India .

Kek you will surely get me banned .



Says T. flat earther by "absence of documentation doesnt disprove absence"

Other examples of flat earther who coined superior aryan race :

View attachment 681274




Research papers dont supersede anything as if you are implying that all of my research papers are a decade old which is not the case. Reichs claims that most recent common ancestor is 4000 years old (muh genesis lord creating world ). I have shown you evidence and same research papers
that show just by "diffrent kind of sampling" show the most recent common ancestors is 15000 years old . LOL . And I even showed you revelations of nyt which to this point stand valid . And as I told earlier his paper titled “ Migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe” that makes
the dubious claim of being able to associate language (and culture) with DNA that purports to support the hypothesis that the steppe yamnaya culture representsthe origin of Indo-european languages and culture. This paper's conclusions have been thoroughly and conclusively demolished by the legendary Russian archaeologist Leo Klejnin two papers published in Acta Archaeologica and the European Journal of Archaeology.

And hence gratuitous conclusion that the Harappan people were not speaking Indo-European languages, because these languages only entered India with steppe immigrants after 2000 BCE, cannot be proved by any amount of genetic data and quibbling.Also , Neeraj Rai and Thangraj CCMB Hyderbad in 2019 noted that It was envisioned that the Indus-Periphery-related groups admixed with the steppe MLBA immigrants toform the ANI, while other Indus Periphery people migrated further south and eastward within peninsular India to mingle with AASI and formed the ASI . Thus, the ASI ancestry appears to be mostly derived from Aasi. While the obvious limitation to the above-mentioned aDNA study was unavailability of ancient South Asian genomes, so they here endeavored to overcome this by implementing three samples from Turan, Infact , Thangraj notes The tropical environs of the Indian sub continent inherently obstruct aDNA studies due to the problems in securing well-preserved biological materials that can potentially yield good-quality DNA. However, given that it has become increasingly possible to obtain endogenous aDNA from petrousbones found in hot tropical conditions, it is expected that relevant information will soon become available from South AsianaDNA analysis, which is anticipated to provide invaluable direct insights to our own prehistory. Finally, from the sameCCMB in 2019 Thangaraj and Rai reflected, meaningful aDNA analyses demand large-scale interdisciplinary collaborations bringing together
population geneticists, anthropologists, archeologists and even linguists . And this hasnt arrived yet .




Unless and until the Harappan script is deciphered and proves the language to be non-Indo-european,
the only valid evidence to decide the language of the Saraswati civilization is the data for the chronology and geography of the Rigveda (backed by irrefutable archaeological evidence ofcourse),which presents an irrefutable case showing that the entire Saraswati area, as well as areas to the far east of it were purely Indo-European language speaking areas from well before 3000 BCE.
Not to mention that "Artefacts found at the archaeological site in Keezhadi, about 12 km from Madurai in Tamil Nadu,have been found, with “graffiti marks” on them pointing to a continuity in script from the Saraswati Civilisation.

In 1940, archaeologist M.S. Vats discovered 3 Shiva Lingas at Harappa, dating more than 5,000 yrs old. This rare archival photo shows that ancient Shiva Linga as it was being excavated from the Harappa site.

This is the Yoni-Lingam

Same thing Found in EGYPT is called Kemetic Hotep

You can find the same Lingam in Vietnam too.

This Shiva Lingam altar discovery at My Son Temple, Vietnam

Pic 1: 1928 excavations

Pic 2: 2020 excavations Near identical Shiva Lingams dating back to the Chams dynasty have been discovered 92 years apart.

You will find the same Shiv Ling base in Cambodia,

 

[rngsama]

Not interested in your character assassinations, as I've already said.

" Interestingly, both the ANI and ASI
ancestry components of the Indian populations are found to
harbour higher haplotypic diversity than those predominant in
west Eurasia. The shared genetic affinity between the ANI
component of northern India and west Eurasia was dated prior
to the Aryan invasion (Metspalu et al. 2011). These realities
suggest the rejection of the Aryan invasion hypothesis but
support an ancient demographic history of India."

Now this is the core of your argument from the Indian authored paper you mentioned. This statement illustrates the butthurt you and other hindutva types feel perpetually and will try to wriggle out of by any available means.

ANI was always postulated as retaining an ASI contribution, even by Reich. Read the relevant excerpts from the Metspalu paper that you and your Indian boys have simply interpreted in their own agenda-driven way:

> Calls core authors from ccmb butthurt Indians ,atleast they do not work in any chinese sweatshop but now I see thats turning into yet another hindu fascist consiparcy.

This is desperate behaviour now .
Reichs (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6822619/) paper mentions



“Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI)-related is a hypothesized South Asian Hunter-Gatherer lineage related deeply to present-day indigenous Andaman Islanders”


This means that the Indians (both North and South) had a hunter-gatherer population whose ancestry was exactly the same asthe present day Andaman islanders before 8th millennium BC, the time of the dawn of Neolithic in India. "It also by implication means that Andaman Islanders and the Hunter-Gatherer Ancient Indians had not diverged genetically or evolved at all in spite of having been separated genetically and spatially for 30,000 to 60,000 years.Another important thing to understand here is that this new name AASI meansthe same thing as the ASI coined by Reich (2010). In other words, they assumes that the Andaman Islanders like people (ASI) had occupied the whole of India,and were not restricted to South India, and hence they have been given a new name AASI replacing the older name ASI.

Howevar this assumption cant be supported on the basis of recieved info so far .We know from the data supplied by this article as well as earlier articles by various authors that the Y-DNAhaplogroup of the Andaman Islanders had stayed the same–the oldest Asian ones — D1 and C2.

On the other hand, people who had stayed in the mainland India had developed newer haplogroups like F*, C5, H1, etc. in their Y-DNA profile, and these newer Y-DNAs have largely replaced the oldest lineages D1 and C2 in the mainland India by this time. Hence, the identification of the pre-Neolithic
Indians by modern Andaman Islanders gene is essentially flawed and is fraught with the danger of misleading the entire study towards wrong conclusions.

Ridiculous. There are two options to the origins of Sanskrit - out of India or into India. We know the IVC didn't use Sanskrit. We also know Sanskrit is related to Europe via the indo-European language family. How did it emerge from India in ancient times (I.e. well before 3000 years b.c. which is the genealogical proposal put forward by your references for the ancient genetic admixture point between Aryans and indigenous Indians), then stimulate European languages while the IVC was slap bang in the way? The only plausible explanation is that someone brought Sanskrit into India when the IVC declined.

It a script that is still not detranslated. But the scientifically dated Mitanni records prove that the culture of the New Books of the Rigveda, which the ancestors of the Mitanni kings brought into West Asia, had developed in the Haryana-Afghanistan area long before 2000 BCE, and that the older
Old Books go back to at least 3000 BCE in Haryana, automatically and immediately debunks the contention that the "genomic evidence" has anything to do with the movement
of the Indo-European languages. Also for example ashwamedha yajya is mentioned in Rigvedas and we even found the horse .

The big problem you're going to be stuck with is that every single one of your supposed sources is infiltrated by bias and self-serving agendas.

The self exposing letters written by the proponents of this larp rather are proof positive of this entire larp .
I am not going to comment anything about your huge baseless racist hinduphobic incessant whines . In the same coin I dont want to make this religious issue by whining about evidence of mythical abu ibrahim.

Even then, the "genomic evidence" should specifically identify certain specific haplogroups as "Indo-European", and should show on the basis of secure scientific evidence that:
1. These "Indo-European" haplogroups were found only in the Steppe area, and nowhere else, till around 3000 BCE.
2. They are found in chronologically clear trails from 3000 BCE onwards leading into Central Asia (two distinct trails for the linguistically distinct Tocharians and "Indo-Iranians" respectively), Europe (the Italic, Celtic, Germanic, Baltic and Slavic branches), southeastern Europe (the Albanians and Greeks, with the Armenians) and Anatolia (the Hittite/Anatolian branch) respectively in the "linguistically predicted" time frames.

3. The "Indo-Iranian" haplogroups, in particular, appear in Central Asia (through an identifiable trail of genomic specimens) only around 2000 BCE or so, and then appear in the area of the Indus area only in the period after 1500 BCE - being completely missing in that area before then.



Not to mention the same author Neeraj Rai jee have exposed all the propaganda and I will rather acknowledge his judgements the very person who was part of core team that posted that cell paper rakhigari sept 2019 which was taken up by scroll fags and leftard media and what not to push the larp .

While , bhadwa patrakars of scroll out thar are WORSE than coalburners, they know the TRUTH and use it to do what? Muh subhuman we wuz aryan rants contests just to see who's the most cucked? Laugh at one another while thar entire ancestors across the world will slide into my anus . Those chickenshit twat are fuckin doomed . They are not even worth the dust of Neeraj Rais shoes LOL ...

 

[xeuss]

In 1940, archaeologist M.S. Vats discovered 3 Shiva Lingas at Harappa, dating more than 5,000 yrs old. This rare archival photo shows that ancient Shiva Linga as it was being excavated from the Harappa site.

This is the Yoni-Lingam

Same thing Found in EGYPT is called Kemetic Hotep

You can find the same Lingam in Vietnam too.

This Shiva Lingam altar discovery at My Son Temple, Vietnam

Pic 1: 1928 excavations

Pic 2: 2020 excavations Near identical Shiva Lingams dating back to the Chams dynasty have been discovered 92 years apart.

You will find the same Shiv Ling base in Cambodia,

Basically anything remotely resembling a phallus forms the basis of this "history"

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Another important thing to understand here is that this new name AASI meansthe same thing as the ASI coined by Reich (2010). In other words, they assumes that the Andaman Islanders like people (ASI) had occupied the whole of India,and were not restricted to South India, and hence they have been given a new name AASI replacing the older name ASI.

Your entire discussion here is that disjointed that it is impossible to follow. I don't know which bits you've cut and pasted from "rational Hindu" blog and which are your own true (plagiarism-lite) opinions.

I think you're suggesting the andamanese and ASI are the same, or that ASI and AASI are interchangeable terms. Both these assertions are incorrect, totally. Reich would throw a fit if you suggested ASI is a replacement term for AASI. It may suit a hindutva narrative to discard iranic genetic contributions into the IVC, as it is entirely in hindutva's job specification to claim IVC as a pure subcontinental entity.

Andamanese are related to ASI and AASI but have oceanic contributions too. AASI contributed to ASI but ASI also has an iranic component.

Although ASI has multiple contributions and admixture points, it is also wrong to simplify ASI as "Andamanese-like".

Even then, the "genomic evidence" should specifically identify certain specific haplogroups as "Indo-European", and should show on the basis of secure scientific evidence that:
1. These "Indo-European" haplogroups were found only in the Steppe area, and nowhere else, till around 3000 BCE.
2. They are found in chronologically clear trails from 3000 BCE onwards leading into Central Asia (two distinct trails for the linguistically distinct Tocharians and "Indo-Iranians" respectively), Europe (the Italic, Celtic, Germanic, Baltic and Slavic branches), southeastern Europe (the Albanians and Greeks, with the Armenians) and Anatolia (the Hittite/Anatolian branch) respectively in the "linguistically predicted" time frames.

3. The "Indo-Iranian" haplogroups, in particular, appear in Central Asia (through an identifiable trail of genomic specimens) only around 2000 BCE or so, and then appear in the area of the Indus area only in the period after 1500 BCE - being completely missing in that area before then

Why does the following not alleviate your concerns?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4884158/bin/NIHMS774872-supplement-Supplementary_Figures__Supplementary_Tables__and_Supplementary_Note.pdf

"In South Asia, we detect eight lineage expansions dating to ~4.0–7.3 kya and involving haplogroups H1-M52, L-M11, and R1a-Z93 (Supplementary Figs. 14b, 14d, and 14e). The most striking are expansions within R1a-Z93, ~4.0–4.5 kya. This time predates by a few centuries the collapse of the Indus Valley Civilization, associated by some with the historical migration of Indo-European speakers from the western steppes into the Indian sub-continent"

Why your inference that it has to be at one precise point in time anyway? Why is it not plausible that several enslavement episodes happened? Or that some Steppe landers came peacefully earlier (and integrated their DNA) and others came aggressively later? After all, the Muslim "invaders" arrived in different waves, some peaceful as traders and others aggressively.

Sooner or later, hindutva folks will simply need to tolerate their own national history of enslavement by a foreign pale skinned people, who brought a language and a caste system and forced it upon you all. It need not have been an "invasion". In fact, it probably wasn't violent because the natives simply bowed down to their new lords willingly. Made life easier I suppose.

 

[Naofumi]

Only a few Aryans were needed to own and enslave subcontinent females and sire multiple families.

This. And thus even after the expansion of R1a (paternal lines) in India, both autosomal and maternal DNA are still predominantly native in all populations of South Asia with Indus Valley being the base source (link) and AASI cline being present from West to East and North to South too, i.e. peripheral Indic groups like Khatris or Haryanvi Jats, have high Steppe DNA and low AASI - this combination gradually tilts towards AASI as one moves from West to East and North to South. This in my opinion is a very clear indication of the Aryan migration theory.

What is this "modern economy" ? And is it written by the stars in the night sky why "modern economy" cannot be changed ?



What ! When was India governed by a communist movement ?



1. Space... It is the next industry of humans. Simple. Undeniable. Everything from medicine to agriculture to politics and economics will be a part of it. Elon Musk has spoken for Direct Democracy to be the governing system of Mars settlements.

2. Gaddafi... You should read The Green Book here and critique it. It won't take too long to read. But I don't stop with Gaddafi's ideas. For example, the new economic system I proposed.



Why should talking about India's very real problems and solutions for world problems, become boring ? If you believe so, sorry but you should quit PDF.



Why not ?

Simple point. He claims to be, or his Indian fans claim, that he was the "Father of the Pentium microprocessor". Now the Indian ministry of electronics and IT had called for an Indian indigenously designed processor eleven years ago. Couldn't Vinod Dham have come to India and set up a team to design such a processor ? After all he is supposed to know how to design and engineer a processor.

It's been eleven years since. Where is he ? Why couldn't the Indian governments since 2009 get him to India for the project. And read this article from 2009.

A little busy for now. May give a response later.

 

[Naofumi]

Of course the concepts and purpose are totally different.

Varnas were not fixed by birth. As I said earlier, The purpose of varnas was to facilitate law.For example, If one indulges in a theft willingly and in full senses knowing the implications, he/she could be penalized 8 times if being a Shudra, 16 times if being a Vaishya, 32 times if being a Kshatriya and 64-128 times if being a Brahman. In other words, the punishment was directly proportional to knowledge and social status of the criminal.

Coming to Caste, It is fixed by birth. it was a medieval concept that took birth in the last few hundred years after the advent of Islamic and Colonial powers in the subcontinent. There is no mention of caste in any historical dharmic texts. Islamic and colonial powers used castes to divide and rule the subcontinent.

Bullshit. There are gene based boundaries in castes detectable today like upper caste having higher Steppe and low AASI. If caste arose in medieval India how is this possible? If varna was flexible before that, the gene wise composition of every varna should be same but it's not.

 

[rngsama]

Why does the following not alleviate your concerns?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...plementary_Tables__and_Supplementary_Note.pdf
"In South Asia, we detect eight lineage expansions dating to ~4.0–7.3 kya and involving haplogroups H1-M52, L-M11, and R1a-Z93 (Supplementary Figs. 14b, 14d, and 14e). The most striking are expansions within R1a-Z93, ~4.0–4.5 kya. This time predates by a few centuries the collapse of the Indus Valley Civilization, associated by some with the historical migration of Indo-European speakers from the western steppes into the Indian sub-continent

Your one liners and cherry picking is good enough to fool common sheep with 1 liners or less LOL . But you have still seemed not to understand the context of all the research papers circulating around that are relevant to study . Everythings is interconnected .

The time period of the most common recent ancestor is not 4000 years old . Its 15000 years old as evident from Leucotte G and other studies. Your reichs and narisnhman have chosen to represent the hypothetical Ancient Ancestral South Asians (AASI) by the modern Onge tribe’s genome. The tribe lives in the Andaman Islands today, and are genetically related to the Papua New Guinea tribal peoples from the days of antiquity.


Surprisingly, they hypothesise that there were people having an identical genomic constitution as the modern Onge but were living in India until the Iranians and the Steppe people arrived in India. These hypothetical Indians have been labelled as the AASI in the paper. These people supposedly admixed with the Iranian and mid-to-late Bronze Age (BA) Steppe genetic groups to produce the modern Indian population, They “conclude”.


In their hypothesis, the admixture of the Onge-genome with the Iranians gave rise to the South Indians (Dravidian) population; and the admixture of this with the Middle-to-late-Bronze Age (MLBA) Steppe poppulation . It is useful here to recollect what Thangaraj wrote about the Onge: “Our data indicate that the two ancient maternal lineages, M31 and M32 in the Onge and the Great Andamanese, have evolved in the Andaman Islands independently from other South and Southeast Asian populations.


These lineages have been shown to be isolated since the initial penetration of the northern coastal areas of the Indian Ocean by anatomically modern humans, in their out-of-Africa migration 50 to 70 thousand years ago.” (Thangaraj et al, 2005, Reconstructing the Origin of Andaman Islanders, Science, 308 (5724): 996)


Thangaraj also noted that over that period of time the genetic composition of the populations of the Andaman-Onge and Indian-Mainland population drifted from each other due to changes taking place in the two independently. They note: “Analysis of the complete mtDNA sequences shows that none of the coding region mutations defining these two haplogroups overlaps with the known Indian or East Asian mtDNA haplogroups. In our survey of 6500 mtDNA sequences from mainland India, none of the M lineages carried the coding region mutations specific to M31 and M32 (6).” (Thangaraj 2005). Thus, we can see that genetically the Onge had deviated / separated and have evolved independently from mainland India over the last 50,000 years, or more, of the separation.


Thus, considering Onge as the Indian population at the onset of Neolithic discredits the entire work, and has completely vitiated all the conclusions.

You will have to debunk and refute all the reichs shit posted by our bois and even in the comment section of reichs paper. You are delusional and claim as sole authority of everything despite the fact of your absoultely zero contribution in the research study LOL. (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1) Its full of nightmare fuel .


https://aryaninvasionmyth.wordpress.com/ < Same group Dr. neeraj rai ji and many others from ccmb hyderabad who even released the LATEST Rakhigari 2019 one .

A preliminary critical appraisal of Narasimhan et al 2018 bioRxiv

by Premendra Priyadarshi (published on 29 April 2018)

therationalhindu.com

Point by Point debunk to every shitty adulteration . Genetics is nevar a one liner response . Qayamat tak ka time h refute get it published LOL .

Your entire discussion here is that disjointed that it is impossible to follow. I don't know which bits you've cut and pasted from "rational Hindu" blog and which are your own true (plagiarism-lite) opinions.

Andamanese are related to ASI and AASI but have oceanic contributions too. AASI contributed to ASI but ASI also has an iranic component.

Although ASI has multiple contributions and admixture points, it is also wrong to simplify ASI as "Andamanese-like".

Let me again repost for you the definition of the word AASI used in the quoted paragraph of reichs paper : “Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI)-related is a hypothesized South Asian Hunter-Gatherer lineage related deeply to present-day indigenous Andaman Islanders” . This means that the Indians (both North and South) had a hunter-gatherer population whose ancestry was exactly the same as the present day Andaman islanders before 8th millennium BC, the time of the dawn of Neolithic in India.

It also by implication means that Andaman Islanders and the Hunter-Gatherer Ancient Indians had not diverged genetically or evolved at all in spite of having been separated genetically and spatially for 30,000 to 60,000 years.Another important thing to understand here is that this new name AASI means the same thing as the ASI coined by Reich (2010). In other words, Narasimhan assumes that the Andaman Islanders like people (ASI) had occupied the whole of India, and were not restricted to South India, and hence they have been given a new name AASI replacing the older name ASI.However, this assumption cannot be supported on the basis of received information so far.Now from the data supplied by the Narasimhan article as well as earlier articles by various authors that the Y-DNA haplogroup of the Andaman Islanders had stayed the same–the oldest Asian ones — D1 and C2.
On the other hand, people who had stayed in the mainland India had developed newer haplogroups like F*, C5, H1, etc. in their Y-DNA profile, and these newer Y-DNAs have largely replaced the oldest lineages D1 and C2 in the mainland India by this time. Hence, the identification of the pre-Neolithic Indians by modern Andaman Islanders gene is essentially flawed.


Also reichs paper says
“Third, between 3100–2200 BCE we observe an outlier at the BMAC site of Gonur, as well as two outliers from the eastern Iranian site of Shahr-i-Sokhta, all with an ancestry profile similar to 41 ancient individuals from northern Pakistan who lived approximately a millennium later in the isolated Swat region of the northern Indus Valley (1200–800 BCE). These individuals had between 14–42% of their ancestry related to the AASI and the rest related to early Iranian agriculturalists and West_Siberian_HG. Like contemporary and earlier samples from Iran/Turan we find no evidence of Steppe-pastoralist-related ancestry in these samples. In contrast to all other Iran/Turan samples, we find that these individuals also had negligible Anatolian agriculturalist-related admixture, suggesting that they might be migrants from a population further east along the cline of decreasing Anatolian agriculturalist ancestry.” (Narasimhan 2018 bioRxiv: page 9 lines 276 to 285).

This paragraph provides us with two crucial pieces of information:

1. The Gonur and Shahr-i-Sokhta samples dated from 3100 BC to 2200 BC had no evidence of the Steppe-pastoralist-related ancestry in them.
2. These Gonur and Shahr-i-Sokhta people had the same ancestry profile as the 41 ancient individuals from northern Pakistan living between 1200 BC and 800 BC.

Now we should examine another statement regarding the GSP population: “These individuals had between 14–42% of their ancestry related to the AASI and the rest related to early Iranian agriculturalists and West_Siberian_HG.” (lines 279 to 281).


This statement at least confirms that the early Iranian agriculturists were genetically related to the GPS (Bronze Age Gonur, Shahr-i-Sokhta, North Pakistan) people. Although Narasimhan et al assume that the Zagros Iranian agriculturists (ZIA) were ancestral to the GPS, there is another possibility that the GPS and ZIA had descended from a common ancestor who was located more likely in the present day Pakistan than in the Zagros.


The latter possibility is supported by stouter evidence. It has been noted that there was a genetic discontinuity — a break in the cline — between the Zagros people and the Anatolian farmers of the 7th millennium BC (Lazaridis 2016; Broushaki 2016). Such break is produced always by either a new arrival of a population or an insurmountabe barrier, temporally and/or geographically, between two adjacent populations.


Broushaki had studied the Wezmeh sample from another Zagros cave. Broushaki also noted, “We sequenced Early Neolithic genomes from the Zagros region of Iran (eastern Fertile Crescent), where some of the earliest evidence for farming is found, and identify a previously uncharacterized population that is neither ancestral to the first European farmers nor has contributed significantly to the ancestry of modern Europeans. These people are estimated to have separated from Early Neolithic farmers in Anatolia some 46–77,000 years ago and show affinities to modern day Pakistani and Afghan populations, but particularly to Iranian Zoroastrians.” Thus, the Wezmeh DNA seems to be a part of a wider Indo-Iranian ancient pool, having the maximum concentration in Pakistan as in this picture.”




The above figure (in the link) is from Broushaki et al, Early Neolithic genomes from the eastern Fertile Crescent, Science 14 Jul 2016, DOI: 10.1126/science.aaf7943


This effectively proves the arrival of the Neolithic Zagros farmers from the Northwestern Indian Neolithic and the continuation of the same people in Pakistan/Northwest India since the early Neolithic days.

Sooner or later, hindutva folks will simply need to tolerate their own national history of enslavement by a foreign pale skinned people, who brought a language and a caste system and forced it upon you all. It need not have been an "invasion". In fact, it probably wasn't violent because the natives simply bowed down to their new lords willingly. Made life easier I suppose.

Looks like standard rich coming again. Everybody is hindufacist my fren . Everything is from hindu fascist . You are delusional and the only answer you have without even bothering to read the points raised is that this is coming from hindu fascist forums . Those are not sadakchaap patrakars but the people who got super ultra expertise they got valid *** points as they are GENUINE SPECIALISTS ON GENETICS LINGUISTS AND ITS FUSION completely debunking methodology of this gayass research and assumptions and the blunder in data reich did to show the results he wanted to . Leucotte G was from france too another hindu fascist and just by sample selection difference he told us about most recent common ancestor 15000 years old found in Punjab while the cuck reich yells most recent common ancestor 4000 years old in some shitty scandivian dirtbag nobodys heard of .


Klejn obiliterated reich in acta archeologica and european journal of genetics . He too is Hindu fascist . That liberal hipster nyt that revealed all the malpractices is too Hindu fascist . The issues raised by single one of them stand completely valid even to this date .



Do you even have any shred of idea how many “Hindu fascists” contributed to all those research papers even the latest ones , they are the ones who did all the job from data collection to genome sequencing and everything else . Cuck reich was just a part of team . While “ Fascist Hindus form largest majority in contribution and all that damn hard work”





And or is that your evident butthurt and egos which is the only thing you have that “NOT A SINGLE PAKISTANI” was deemed worthy enough even as a clerk in that research team or any previous ones ofcourse we know while Indian Medical and Genetics is being considered now at par with scandivanians where “50% of hard working intellectuals geneticists form Indian HINDUS ”. 50 % high majority Hindus who contributed to that latest rakhigari and other research are the chosen people . They will dictate and decide what is what what is fact and what is lies . And they have the sole authority not you or anyone else. How much research you have done in genetics or are you dreaming to post some new shit in cell lmao. Its hillarious to see many pakistanis here comment as ivc is ancient pakistanis LOL ofcourse everything can be outsourced in digital world.





Watch the video and acknowledge real facts dude and get off your narratives or you can shove them in *** and set fire to it too I dont care . Nobody does. It can of course soothe your egos thats the only thing you are left with in your life because you are seething and your vicious hatred for Hinduism is evident .

Neeraj Rai ji the core contributor of latest research paper posted in cell rakhigari Sept 06 2019
has declared after all :





No aryan invasion but possibility of interaction (peacful)


Rigveda is Indian homeland


Hinduism vedic culture indigenous to subcontinent


Sanskrit indigenous


Proof Continuity of 10000 years of indigenous civilization


Aryan race doesnt exist . Its an adjective .


Moar papers will be published and work on dna from other sites , archaeology is going god speed ahead that will act as moar evidence of Continuity of 10000 years old glorious vedic hindu civilization ...




Now after this who needs to take a lecture from beta npcs assholes and dalals who dont know a **** about what they are talking . And certainly pakis will or can nevar dictate .Its infact an hour of great pride for us now we rank on par with developed nations and best in this dna genome studies. Our hardowrking intellectual geneticists biologists historians work 24 hours with dedication and total fucking commitment who were part of that project that research have told us on public forums about all the “Facts”needed to know and also warned us about degenrate hipster *** interpretations of incorrect data by non scholars . Reich is not even worth the ballsack sweat of our Bois when our bois caught him adultering shit and confronted his pussy *** he whined RSS pressure and make no mention of the term ‘Aryan’ in his paper , and merely speculate that migrants from the Steppe may have brought Vedic culture into India. while the dalal patrakars keep on spreading lies .




50 percent hindus in rakhigari study 2019 and pretty much every genetic study simply means they will decide what is correct and what is not . Your opinions or reichs and anybodys else other than our chosen bois dont matter worth a shit to us .

Basically anything remotely resembling a phallus forms the basis of this "history"

So you choose history ?

 

[Naofumi]

If Aryans introduced it (and there is overwhelming evidence that the white skinned Aryans did murder or enslave dark skinned natives on a caste basis), then why blame later empires who simply saw a method of quickly and easily taking advantage of a system already in place?

The current evidence points to a migration without any significant genocides. There were constant warfare for sure but no mass scale murders. The worst resulting brutality came not from the incoming migration but at the stage when the post-migration Indian social structure crystallized (i. e. after the forming of modern caste-groups from different living populations at that time). The resulting caste system was the most enduring yet brutal system.

Aryans were natives of the ancient India and Persia which included Central Asia and West Asia.

Over the centuries Aryans lost lands in West Asia and Central Asia to other invading forces like Arabs, Turks & Mongols.

Bullshit after bullshit. Just reading it makes me wonder about your inherent stupidity. I mean there's something called google which you can use to at least read up some basic facts before you spew some bullshit that makes you look like an absolute idiot.

Fun fact : There was no "Arya" presence in any of the places mentioned when any of the above mentioned people invaded those places.

Arabs invaded these places that too in 751 and they primarily battled the Chinese there (Battle of Talas). Post-Islamic Empires were the FIRST EVER VENTURE OF ARABS OUTSIDE ARABIA PROPER. And West Asia consists of Semitic + Persians lands. Non-Semitic people had long vanished (most were Hellenized like Hittites) much before Islam and were under Roman Empire when Arabs came and Aryans never existed there as a people - Mittani was a short-lived empire MUCH BEFORE THAN ARABS (fu*ing 1600 BC - nearly two and a half-a-millennia gap) which ruled over a Hurrian speaking population which is an entirely different language - they too used Hurrian for many civilian purposes before they were conquered by Assyrian Empire - WHICH WAS NOT ARAB. Duh.

This is the map of Göktürk Empire (aka First Turkic Khaganate), i.e. the places Turks invaded when they made the FIRST MARK of their presence in history. It was established in 552 AD. And they didn't fought any "Arya" in those places too (LOL), their main adversaries were other Turkic tribes, Tang China and Central Asian Iranics like Hephthalites and even Persians (Sassanids). No Arya ever battled them because they didn't existed at those places at that time. (LOL)

This is Mongol Empire in 1279 AD, they too didn't invaded any "Arya", their main opponents were Khwarazmians, Seljuks, Mamluks in West Asia, the Jin dynasty, Western Xia, the Dali Kingdom, the Southern Song, and the Eastern Xia in Far East, Slavic principalities of Kiev, Galicia-Volhynia, Novgorod Republic, Smolensk, Rostov, Turov in Europe. No Arya were harmed by them too (LOL).

But wait a minute! Your little brain must be wondering then why those evil sickooolars say that Aryas came from Central Asia? No points for the correct answer.



Ans : Timeline. Aryas with Iranics (Indo-Iranian split had not occurred yet) as a people first occurred in a region that is called Eurasian Steppe. They originated from a culture known as Sintashta in nearly 2400 BC (more than 3 millennia before "Arab, Turks and Mongols, LOL").

This is the location of Sintashta :

But from where this Sintashta came and where did it go? I leave this to you as your homework, LOL.

So, now Aryans are invading nomads, what happened to them? Did they go extinct too? First IVC people disappeared, now Aryans disappeared and now it's Brahmins and Hindutva trying to copy Aryans. We were all magicians.

Stupid, no one vanished. Both IVC (who form the primary source of all South Asian population - link) and Aryans left a lasting genetic, linguistic and cultural legacy. Brahmins are simply a people who carry high percentage of paternal Aryan ancestry, that doesn't mean they are the same as ancient migrating Aryas - they no longer exists as a unique people.

Those AASI settlers were pushed to the Andaman islands by the dominant populations arriving in the west, ASI and ANI groups alike.

Paniya people are a much better proxy for AASI than Andamanese.

Estagforellah brother , why the study assumes the onge tribes-people who inhabit the little andaman island to be representative of what it calls the “aasi”, whom our krantikari journalist like joseph tony also refer to as the 1st Indians . They had to put "andamanese people " to create an artificial gradiant between ANI and ASI people . This is problematic in the extreme, as it is well-known that the andamanese have been cut-off from the rest of humanity for several tens of thousands of years, and therefore, any genetic affinity or kinship they may have with other groups can only be distant and tenuous at best.

Tf, at least write in proper English before expecting anyone to even comprehend your bullshit. And no, as I stated above, Andamanese are not the proxy for AASI, Paniya people are.

 

[rngsama]

Tf, at least write in proper English before expecting anyone to even comprehend your bullshit. And no, as I stated above, Andamanese are not the proxy for AASI, Paniya people are.

Reich's book pages 30 31 33

 

[Naofumi]

Reich's book

A study by Yelmen et al (2019) identified the Paniya alongside the Irulas, as the best fit proxy for the Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI), one of the founder indigenous populations of South Asia.

Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations

Abstract. Genetic variation in contemporary South Asian populations follows a northwest to southeast decreasing cline of shared West Eurasian ancestry. A g

academic.oup.com

According to Reich, Paniyas were genetically closest to Ancestral South Indians who were genetically modelled as 75% Ancient Ancestral South Indian and 25% Iran-Neolithic related. There are some claims that Recent genetic studies also shows Paniyas received extra admixture from Ancestral North Indian population,which is around 17% on average.

Genetic Evidence for Recent Population Mixture in India

Most Indian groups descend from a mixture of two genetically divergent populations: Ancestral North Indians (ANI) related to Central Asians, Middle Easterners, Caucasians, and Europeans; and Ancestral South Indians (ASI) not closely related to groups ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov