India will be betraying Muslims if it abandons Kashmir: Akbar

[Hellfire]

what muslims of india as a community has to do with kashmir ? how are they being betrayed

That the acceptance of a separate state based on religious lines. He is right .... it is a battle of ideology .... no one , not even Pakistan cares for Kashmiris. They, after all, invaded the state when it was independent of both India and Pakistan and the rest is history!

 

[Atlanticore]

You are mistaking. Accepting the status quo and converting it into international border is in interest of everyone. It just need strong political will at both sides. Few rouge elements need to be controlled. There will be some repercussion for couple of years before dust settling down. After that there will be only growth in this area.

I don't know about India but Pakistan would never give up its claims on Kashmir. We support their right of Freedom and You guys misunderstand it as state accession with Pakistan. If Pakistan have had any wish for the accession of Kashmir into Pakistan, then they would have given Azad Kashmir a Status of Province, instead of Administered state. They have their own President, Own Prime Minister and their own Parliament.

 

[Hellfire]

Indians are the people who are pro-pork eating while being prohibited from eating beef,muslims are the type of vice versa,hog would fly if one day the two completely incompatible groups of people get along with eath other,it's like putting dogs and cats into the same cage,they never aligned so where is the so-called "betraying"? so why prolong the cold mutual-disdain period for so long in which both sides feel stifling,let's find a vent once and for all and turn this cold war made of mutual rancor and animus from cold into scorching,shall we?I bought popcorn

I like your analogy .... remember your words when Uighurs next time raise a noise and stink ...... and convey these points to Beijing too!

I don't know about India but Pakistan would never give up its claims on Kashmir. We support their right of Freedom and You guys misunderstand it as state accession with Pakistan. If Pakistan have had any wish for the accession of Kashmir into Pakistan, then they would have given Azad Kashmir a Status of Province, instead of Administered state. They have their own President, Own Prime Minister and their own Parliament.

You write crap and then believe it and write it again .. that does not make it history. Please .. please ... please read about Operation Gulmarg and then read other threads on Kashmir war of 1947-48 and then speak .... YOU invaded INDEPENDENT KASHMIR in 1947, no effing one asked for your help ..... YOU reneged on the treaty you signed accepting it as an independent state ..... so really DO NOT PONTIFY!

Hindus will obviously disagree with this. Its quite a bit of an embarrassment to Hindus about how so many co-religionists left Hinduism for Islam and they come up with different excuses to explain that away. Some outright lie and say we are descendants of invaders. Others say we were converted by the sword. Both theories belie facts and the thousands of Sufi saints' graves scattered all over the subcontinent.

What embarrassment? Remember the early Muslim invasions had procreation acts with concubines (read Wh0res) ... so what you are typing is a dangerous territory and we should realllllly desist from transgressing into such areas in this forum! Converted of own accord or by sword, the facts are there and must be accepted lest the lineage be doubted on the questions of legitimacy ........... so I really doubt where the embarrassment will emanate from!!! So please desist!

We won't agree. We never can.

Your wish .... people did not accept the world was spherical also .. they believed earth to be flat for centuries .....!!

Once a Muslim majority land, always a Muslim land

The last time India tried to give Muslim land in Kashmir away for a Hindu program there were mass protests and India backed off

When? Where? What cr@p you are typing? Please elucidate where is the backing off? Amarnath Yatra? More land has been given ... not a squeak came out the second time round ....

 

[unbiasedopinion]

I don't know about India but Pakistan would never give up its claims on Kashmir. We support their right of Freedom and You guys misunderstand it as state accession with Pakistan. If Pakistan have had any wish for the accession of Kashmir into Pakistan, then they would have given Azad Kashmir a Status of Province, instead of Administered state. They have their own President, Own Prime Minister and their own Parliament.

Your legitimate fight in front of world lost relevance when you separated gilgit-baltistan as different entity. azad Kashmir is just a small strip of land in whole princely Kashmir state. You have got nothing with

 

[Parul]

Had they been "ok".. There wouldn't have been massive bloodshed in Panjab and Bengal.

Both states were Partitioned on Basis of Religion and both witnessed Bloodshed. The nature of Bloodshed in both the states were different.

Like them - Kashmir has witnessed it's share - the only Practical solution to this issue is convert LOC into International Border.

If Punjabis and Bengalis can live with thier states being Partitioned, so can People of Jammu and Kashmir.

Unless you claim that you Sikhs became our puppet and got slaughtered in 84 & got your holiest site destroyed by Indian mil.

If Guns, Hand Grenades, Rocket Launchers etc. entrs any Religious Place. That place Loses is sacredness. Indian Army lead by a "Sikh" - did the right thing by attacking "The Harmandir Sahib" and flushing out Terrorist whom turned it into Fortress.

Further, above is not the subject of this thread. Hence, no further reply on this subject from me - I'm open to debate on it in a thread meant for this topic.

 

[Hellfire]

@ mods : close the troll thread please

 

[Apprentice]

Umm. Perhaps you have not read much about him.

The hate Indian Sunnis have for us is not due to books. But madarsas and knowledge passed down through generations. The rest of your observations are true. But not surprising.

Lest you forget - the Muslims of your Punjab, Sindh did not vote for Pakistan. Muslims from (what is today) India voted for Pakistan. No wonder they are far less tolerant.

But there are many very liberal and good natured Muslims out there as well. But they are a minority and don't dare to speak out about what they feel in the open. For obvious reasons.

Then why does MJ Akbar openly oppose the Kashmiri Muslim freedom struggle.

Yes I am aware that the Pakistan Demand was stronger in UP and Bombay than in Punjab. Muslim League didn't win significant support in Punjab until 1946, before that it was an Unionist party dominated province.

But that still does not explain why the Urdu Speaking population is Pakistan is not extreme like their Indian Muslim relatives

What has caused Indian Muslims to be so much more extreme than relatives who migrated out to Pak at partition?

Was it because of discrimination from Hindus that they faced?

 

[Atlanticore]

You write crap and then believe it and write it again .. that does not make it history. Please .. please ... please read about Operation Gulmarg and then read other threads on Kashmir war of 1947-48 and then speak .... YOU invaded INDEPENDENT KASHMIR in 1947, no effing one asked for your help ..... YOU reneged on the treaty you signed accepting it as an independent state ..... so really DO NOT PONTIFY!

I don't require permission from you to shed light on ground realities based on Long History.
We came to the Help of Kashmiri Muslims on their request. People from Tribal Areas , Balouchistan and Punjab fought for those Kashmiri Muslims who were already in Rebellion against Hindu ruler of Kashmir. It was the fight of Kashmiri people and Muslims of Pakistan helped them because it was their moral duty to came to help their Muslims Brethren after our combined push for State for Muslims. None of Kashmiri cared that what Hindu Raja have to say because they had Future in Muslim state not under the Hindu oppression. And if Kashmir would have been an independent State then the People of Kashmir wouldn't have started a rebellion against Hindu ruler.
We didn't require the permission of Hindu Raja because the State was for Muslims and a Hindu wasn't the one who was supposed to take decisions for Future of Muslims.

 

[Atlanticore]

That's why Pakistan is burning. Pakistanis are doing apt Job and India don't need hands.

That time is long gone when Pakistan was burning , its a time when Pakistan is causing burns to their adversaries. Its 2016 my friend and its pay up time .

 

[[Bregs]]

That the acceptance of a separate state based on religious lines. He is right .... it is a battle of ideology .... no one , not even Pakistan cares for Kashmiris. They, after all, invaded the state when it was independent of both India and Pakistan and the rest is history!

even on religious lines the forced exodus of kashmiri pandits has to be taken care of

 

[Atlanticore]

Your legitimate fight in front of world lost relevance when you separated gilgit-baltistan as different entity. azad Kashmir is just a small strip of land in whole princely Kashmir state. You have got nothing with

I was expecting this reply lol.
It was the wish of the people of Gilgit -Baltistan to declare GB as a province of Pakistan. They have been demanding the status of Province for GB from almost 10 years but Pakistan have given them constitutional rights of Province not the status of Province. GB and Kashmir's separation is according to the Constitution of Azad Kashmir and not according to the constitution of Pakistan.

 

[singh sahab]

Qasim is supported by the majority of Sunnis, the 'real' Muslims.


That is not true.

Myanmar has shown it can be done. Sudan has shown it can be done. There are other similar examples.


How do these missionaries work? How do they convince the once conquered and raped and converted to think that their perpetrator was the actual hero?

Lol, that must've hurt.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

I was expecting this reply lol.
It was the wish of the people of Gilgit -Baltistan to declare GB as a province of Pakistan. They have been demanding the status of Province for GB from almost 10 years but Pakistan have given them constitutional rights of Province not the status of Province. GB and Kashmir's separation is according to the Constitution of Azad Kashmir and not according to the constitution of Pakistan.

and it is the wish of people of our side to participate in Indian elections. We are honoring it.

 

[Hellfire]

I don't require permission from you to shed light on ground realities based on Long History.

Your delusive interpretation of history. The people of Kashmir, the MUSLIMS, could have wrested the power from the Dogra ruler without your 'HELP'. In fact, they were en-route to that, but your greed in trying to justify formation of a new nation and your covetous adventurism forever put the very same people you proclaim to be trying to help, under a "hindu" India.

And yes you do not need permission to shed light on 'ground realities' of your ground which is limited to the demarcations of Pakistan .... carry on trolling ......!!!!! Rest of your post is significant of lack of understanding of the concept of nation states and independence.

Lol! you Indians got present plight with muslims because your whole sub-continent was comepletely vanquished by the ancestors of the muslims locking horn with you guys today! you even needed the Brits who had colonized you too to play the moderator for you to avoid being assimilated once and for all at price of partitioning your country.

What an intellectually bankrupt rejoinder to my observation on your earlier pontifications. Void of any rationale, your this post is a rant at best ...... please accept my apologies in trying to rationalize with you ....

even on religious lines the forced exodus of kashmiri pandits has to be taken care of

Too late .... the concept of affirmative action is in vogue in india. As a Hindu, you have no rights, as a member of a strict religious group you are a minority who has to be protected nay pampered even at the cost of the nation.

And it is these very Hindus who yet vote for Congress and its like minded allies, who stood back to see the genocide being played out in Kashmir against the Kashmiri Pandits. By perpetuating the opium induced concept of Kashmiriyat, we have failed to convert the valley into Indians, leaving them to be Kashmiris. Across the LC, there are Pakistanis ....... cross marriages and resettlement have allowed the dilution of "kashmiris" while we harp about a mirage at best,

 

[Atlanticore]

And yes you do not need permission to shed light on 'ground realities' of your ground which is limited to the demarcations of Pakistan .... carry on trolling ......!!!!! Rest of your post is significant of lack of understanding of the concept of nation states and independence.

You call it Trolling .
Oh Man, It was quite waste of time in arguing with person with Limited understanding.
And My level of understanding can't be Judged by a person who himself can't differentiate between the logical discussion and trolling.