India will be betraying Muslims if it abandons Kashmir: Akbar

[SarthakGanguly]

Sindhi Hindus and my Pandit ancestral community did not face the sword at all. But thats our Muslim version of history.

Hindus will obviously disagree with this. Its quite a bit of an embarrassment to Hindus about how so many co-religionists left Hinduism for Islam and they come up with different excuses to explain that away. Some outright lie and say we are descendants of invaders. Others say we were converted by the sword. Both theories belie facts and the thousands of Sufi saints' graves scattered all over the subcontinent.

Obviously we are both different religions and different groups with different perspectives.

We won't agree. We never can.

What about the Islamic sources? The court chronicles? The boastful references? Come-on. Everyone knows how Islam was introduced. Had it been purely by sufis, the Hindus of areas not conquered by Islam rulers would also have converted. But they did not. Our mother's side converted to Islam. They reconverted only during the Sikh eta and that too because they had the security of living in the government quarters in Nankana Sahib. Otherwise those converted feared reconverting simply because some neighbor might kill them for doing so.

And most Sunni Muslims in India are proud of it. They openly boast about how they forced their ways on us. The temples from Somnath to Taxila to Sharda Peeth to Martand bear witness.

And I agree with your last part. Islam is incompatible with any other ideology on Earth.

 

[Apprentice]

Qasim is supported by the majority of Sunnis, the 'real' Muslims.

I have to compliment you for your honesty.

Most Indian Muslims I know here in Australia are extremely radical, even by my standards. It therefore always surprises me when non muslims in India claim that Muslim Indians are secular patriots. I am yet to meet an Indian Muslim who fits that description. By large, they are more extreme Muslims than us Pakistanis.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I have to compliment you for your honesty.

Most Indian Muslims I know here in Australia are extremely radical, even by my standards. It therefore always surprises me when non muslims in India claim that Muslim Indians are secular patriots. I am yet to meet an Indian Muslim who fits that description. By large, they are more extreme Muslims than us Pakistanis.

I agree with you. The average Pakistani Punjabi or Sindhi Muslim are not as fanatic as most of Indian Sunnis. Having grown up in Kashmir among Muslim friends I can assure you about it.

There are many secular patriots as well. They are many but in comparison quite insignificant. Non Muslims are terrified of the Muslim majority areas of the cities. You need to go in there, mix with them, go to their mosques to understand what they really think. The support for Isis is huge s well. Shias and ahmedias are hated more than Hindus.

 

[Brahmaputra Mail]

Most Indian Muslims I know here in Australia are extremely radical, even by my standards

From which state ? Not all Muslims are radical. The indigenous Assamese muslims are quite literate and are well to do community.

 

[Apprentice]

I agree with you. The average Pakistani Punjabi or Sindhi Muslim are not as fanatic as most of Indian Sunnis. Having grown up in Kashmir among Muslim friends I can assure you about it.

There are many secular patriots as well. They are many but in comparison quite insignificant. Non Muslims are terrified of the Muslim majority areas of the cities. You need to go in there, mix with them, go to their mosques to understand what they really think. The support for Isis is huge s well. Shias and ahmedias are hated more than Hindus.

Then why do Indians blame Pakistani textbooks for anti-Indian and anti-Hindu sentiments when Indian Muslims are clearly more extreme than us and they don't get the same textbooks? And these Indian Muslims I know are generally well educated doctors and engineer. They are middle class professionals.

And I will tell you one thing. I don't know any Pakistani Muslim who would support bombing innocent Hindus, we are against the killing of innocent Hindus despite our differences with India, but I have come across Indian Muslims openly supporting this!! Why?

I wll explain the difference between an Indian Muslim and a Pakistani and even Bangladesi Muslim.

Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims here have a lower percentage of men who dress like Arabs and grow very long beards. But Indian Muslim men in comparison have a much higher rate of keeping long beards and wearing Arab thobes. Not that they don't wear shalwar qameez, but the Indian Muslims think they are more 'Muslim' than us. Even Pakistani Muslim scholars dress as per local tradition but not so Indian Muslims. They think Islam is following Arab culture, which is not true.

In fact even Pakistanis whose families migrated from India during 1947 are more moderate than their Indian cousins across the border. I have seen it with my own eyes.

And while yes I support Muhammad Bin Qasim and the other Muslim rulers of India, I don't believe he engaged in massacres neither do I think it is right to do so. Indian Muslims on the other hand both supports Muhammad Bin Qasim and the narrative of his alleged anti-Hindu killings.

From which state ? Not all Muslims are radical. The indigenous Assamese muslims are quite literate and are well to do community.

The ones I know are from Lucknow, Mumbai, Gujarat, Hyderabad and Kerala. But they generally have family in numerous Indian states too.

 

[Parul]

And convert a major chunk of the Muslim population to other faiths. That IS the crux. Undo the Islamization of Kashmir.

I second that. But I'd rather say "Ek Bihari Sab Pay Bhari - Jai Bihar".

 

[SarthakGanguly]

And while yes I support Muhammad Bin Qasim and the other Muslim rulers of India

Umm. Perhaps you have not read much about him.

The hate Indian Sunnis have for us is not due to books. But madarsas and knowledge passed down through generations. The rest of your observations are true. But not surprising.

Lest you forget - the Muslims of your Punjab, Sindh did not vote for Pakistan. Muslims from (what is today) India voted for Pakistan. No wonder they are far less tolerant.

But there are many very liberal and good natured Muslims out there as well. But they are a minority and don't dare to speak out about what they feel in the open. For obvious reasons.

 

[Parul]

Never Gonna Happen . India would never accept our Claims, neither Pakistan will except India's claims. If anyone did then they will certainly lose Kashmir Case Ideologically which will certainly strengthen other Separatist movements. India have much to lose, Pakistan have one separatist movement which is in Balouchistan and India don't have border with this Province and ISI is much capable to counter any threat from the soil of Afghanistan.

Punjab and Bengal were Partitioned and people were OK with it - Pakistan should be content with the part of Kashmir she has and end madness.

State of India has prospered in last 67 years and Insha'allah it will continue to. Pakistan was, is & Will/can continue supporting Separatist Movements; by doing so it's going to burn herself like present.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I agree with you. The average Pakistani Punjabi or Sindhi Muslim are not as fanatic as most of Indian Sunnis. Having grown up in Kashmir among Muslim friends I can assure you about it.

There are many secular patriots as well. They are many but in comparison quite insignificant. Non Muslims are terrified of the Muslim majority areas of the cities. You need to go in there, mix with them, go to their mosques to understand what they really think. The support for Isis is huge s well. Shias and ahmedias are hated more than Hindus.

So why are you a radical
Hindutva turd who openly encourages killings over beef n so on? How are hindutva clowns like you any different from the other party?

Punjab and Bengal were Partitioned and people were OK with it - Pakistan should be content with the part of Kashmir she has and end madness.

Had they been "ok".. There wouldn't have been massive bloodshed in Panjab and Bengal.

State of India has prospered in last 67 years and Insha'allah it will continue to. Pakistan was, is & Will/can continue supporting Separatist Movements; by doing so it's going to burn herself like present.

Pak remained ahead of India till the mid 2000s... Despite sanction etc.. It was only bad governance & war on terror that slowed is down.. As for proxies.. Oh yeah right,, LTTE Sri Lanka,MB in East Pak,Nepal,Sindhudesh,Pashtunistan and bla are some of your proxies.. Unless you claim that you Sikhs became our puppet and got slaughtered in 84 & got your holiest site destroyed by Indian mil.

Umm. Perhaps you have not read much about him.

Certainly not from the RSS books you read... Which "vedify" almost everything in saffron...

The hate Indian Sunnis have for us is not due to books. But madarsas and knowledge passed down through generations. The rest of your observations are true. But not surprising.

Your own doing.. People like yourself are the reason indian Muslims turned into what you wanted!

When you encourage killings,bark 24/7 against Islam and even your own Muslim countrymen .. Not sure if they would harbour love for your kind.

Lest you forget - the Muslims of your Punjab, Sindh did not vote for Pakistan. Muslims from (what is today) India voted for Pakistan. No wonder they are far less tolerant.

Really .. Did Babi swami submarine and ram Devi tell you that?

Ignorant fool .. Muslim league with support from unionists etc won elections . Their slogan was for an independent country ! And people voted them Ito power! Don't reinvent your history (typical of you).

But there are many very liberal and good natured Muslims out there as well. But they are a minority and don't dare to speak out about what they feel in the open. For obvious reasons.

When a Hindu radica who advocates murder,hates secularism,vilifies Muslims,spreads hatred ---- talks about liberalism ... Hilariously ironic.

 

[Atlanticore]

Pakistan was, is & Will/can continue supporting Separatist Movements; by doing so it's going to burn herself like present.

We are just Returning the favors. Fire is Fire, its gonna burn like it is supposed to be but India's attempt to fuel the fire can burn the Hands of India. And For active proxies, India need Hands.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Are you suggesting the Kashmris really want to join Pakistan? Are you really that deluded? You think they don't know what your history, accomplishments and enormous screw-ups are? You're not exactly like Scandinavia- an oasis of prosperity and health and abundance. There are a few who want 'indenpence' because they're interested in power and money. But that is politically disadvantageous for Kashmir. Makes obvious sense for it to belong to India.

Pak Kashmir has less than 5 million people and represents 10% of military... There are no anti Pak protests..rapes,mass graves or hoisting if ibdia flags there... There are several Kashmiri members on PDF .. Including moderators.. And not a single Kashmiri from IOK .. Accept a few inactive members who hated your country more than even hafiz Saeed..

Keep living in your delusions.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

Never Gonna Happen . India would never accept our Claims, neither Pakistan will except India's claims. If anyone did then they will certainly lose Kashmir Case Ideologically which will certainly strengthen other Separatist movements. India have much to lose, Pakistan have one separatist movement which is in Balouchistan and India don't have border with this Province and ISI is much capable to counter any threat from the soil of Afghanistan.

You are mistaking. Accepting the status quo and converting it into international border is in interest of everyone. It just need strong political will at both sides. Few rouge elements need to be controlled. There will be some repercussion for couple of years before dust settling down. After that there will be only growth in this area.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Ok. Then you were cowards to not defend Junagadh and Hyderabad as your sovereign territory.

Dear, Hyderabad lies in south India .. Was an independent state - occupied militarily by India .,.. Which commuter attrocities during the invasion .

Junagarh had signed accession with Pakistan (on the basis of which Pak took the case to UN).
Sir creek is more of a swamp than a town or city.

 

[Hellfire]

If that's the case hold referundum and all this will be over,as according to you they will side with india

Old rhetoric .. been there done that. Conditions of holding a plebiscite have been flogged to death in other concerned threads for years now. Pakistan to vacate military forces, India to follow suit and then plebiscite to be held ... blah blah .... its been flogged to death, revitalized and again flogged to death a number of times. Move on ........ !

 

[Parul]

We are just Returning the favors. Fire is Fire, its gonna burn like it is supposed to be but India's attempt to fuel the fire can burn the Hands of India. And For active proxies, India need Hands.

You are returning Favors - That's why Pakistan is burning. Pakistanis are doing apt Job and India don't need hands.