Featured India, US Close To Signing $700 Million Deal To Acquire 100 'GE 404' Engines For Tejas Mk1A Fighter Jets

[MirageBlue]

But with all due to respect its a heavier than f404 by various sources

It is the F-404-IN20, which is the same engine used on the production Tejas Mk1 as well as all the 8 Limited Series Production prototoypes.

Earlier they used the F-404-F2J3 for the Technology Demonstrators (TDs) and Prototype Vehicles (PVs) but it was changed to the F-404-IN20 to increase the thrust.

 

[VkdIndian]

This is what we are used to and you can now clearly understand why we get perplexed when it comes to the JF-17.

You have summed it up nicely.

Contribution of Pakistan in development of JF-17 is not known to anyone because there is none. China did the entire work and passed on the know how to make few fuselage parts to PAC. Most of the other stuff came from China. Pakistan assembled and painted it at a good rate per year and declared itself master of aircraft development.
For some reason China allowed the usage of word JOINT which has resulted in daydreaming regarding the capabilities of Pakistan in developing an aircraft. Daydreaming has its limits though.

Does PAC have any capability to undertake any such developmental work from scratch? The answer is none whatsoever.

Of late joint marketing is being claimed as a proof of Pakistan’s contribution to the project. Without any other aspect known about their contribution to JF-17, they think that this joint marketing story would fool the world and they would somehow become a powerhouse of aircraft tech. Funny world this is.

Intriguing part is the posse of fanboys who have been posting pictures of an aircraft picture painted on tail of a cargo aircraft of PAF as proof of substantial work being done towards AZM. They have learnt good painting job from JF-17 and have started believing that this painting capability would get them AZM too.

These fanboys would never understand the ecosystem that has come up along with Tejas. The reason is that they don’t want to and their sole aim is trolling.

Good luck to them with the tail art of AZM. Because that’s what they are capable of. Painting something and then claiming it to be their own work.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

You have summed it up nicely.

Contribution of Pakistan in development of JF-17 is not known to anyone because there is none. China did the entire work and passed on the know how to make few fuselage parts to PAC. Most of the other stuff came from China. Pakistan assembled and painted it at a good rate per year and declared itself master of aircraft development.
For some reason China allowed the usage of word JOINT which has resulted in daydreaming regarding the capabilities of Pakistan in developing an aircraft. Daydreaming has its limits though.

Does PAC have any capability to undertake any such developmental work from scratch? The answer is none whatsoever.

Of late joint marketing is being claimed as a proof of Pakistan’s contribution to the project. Without any other aspect known about their contribution to JF-17, they think that this joint marketing story would fool the world and they would somehow become a powerhouse of aircraft tech. Funny world this is.

Intriguing part is the posse of fanboys who have been posting pictures of an aircraft on tail of a cargo aircraft of PAF as proof of substantial work being done towards AZM. They have learnt good painting job from JF-17 and have started believing that this painting capability would get them AZM too.

These fanboys would never understand the ecosystem that has come up along with Tejas. The reason is that they don’t want to and their sole aim is trolling.

Good luck to them with the tail art of AZM. Because that’s what they are capable of. Painting something and then claiming it to be their own work.

Fuselage imported directly

 

[VkdIndian]

Fuselage imported directly

Yes. It is a Chinese airport as seen in the background. PAF IL-76 is parked alongside to load the fuselage of JOINTLY developed aircraft.

 

[Bilal9]

Yes. It is a Chinese airport as seen in the background. PAF IL-76 is parked alongside to load the fuselage of JOINTLY developed aircraft.

Just go watch a video of the PAC Kamra installation.

Stop embarrassing yourself with childish posts.

 

[GumNaam]

Contribution of Pakistan in development of JF-17 is not known to anyone because there is none.

I'm just loving this scene of groupie mutual mental masturbation @VkdIndian, @HostileInsurgent & @mig25 are doing in each other's kitties. such a feel good moment yes? well if your done jizzing on each other's bungholes, here, lemme destroy the moment...this is exactly how we want you to think until, well...y' know; aaah, tea is fantashtik!

 

[VkdIndian]

I'm just loving this scene of groupie mutual mental masturbation

A useless post filled with profanities.

 

[Vapnope]

Good luck to them with the tail art of AZM. Because that’s what they are capable of. Painting something and then claiming it to be their own work.

How do you live with such superiority complex?

You guys started an indigenous fighter program because of better budget, we didn't even try due to meager resources. Not everyone is into making indigenous products for various reason, doesn't mean they aren't capable.

 

[ProudPak]

I think joint venture for India and Pakistan are oranges and apples. Your post has made it abundantly clear to my fellow Indians that Pakistan has joint ownership because of the developmental costs, marketing skills and displays in airshows.

On the contrary for India, a joint ownership includes finances but also our own content in the product. For example, the most popular joint project on this side of the border is the Brahmos. While Russia has significant contribution initially, today India makes the software used to guide the BrahMos missile accurately to its target is developed by India, The support system used to convey trajectory changes for targeting moving vessels and the fire control system used to track and engage targets are also developed by India, The seeker is also Indian leaving only the propulsion to be Russian.

Additionally, India is making the air variant through HAL and was single handedly responsible in design, development of the plan to mount them on MKIs.

This is what we are used to and you can now clearly understand why we get perplexed when it comes to the JF-17.

It also becomes important for you to understand that our assembled products are strictly under Buyer -seller agreements and we don't claim to be joint owners or collaborators at all. We do have some T-O-T and we do export some parts

https://dfnc.ru/en/vtc/hal-seeking-to-export-su-30mki-and-mig-29-engine-spares/

Lastly, the development of Tejas has been the biggest learning experience for India and also not so known is most documented experience. I have followed the researchers from IISC and ADA publish their research and findings in world wide Journals much before it's actual first flight. When I was a student I would actively read those papers on IEEE Explore when I had membership to the site.

A sample for you below, but can get you many many more if you want.

http://triggered.stanford.clockss.o...atypon.com/doi/pdf/10.1260/1757-2258.2.1-2.57

[/URL]

https://www.academia.edu/download/53394618/31_Flow_Anlaysis_on_Hal_Tejas_Aircraft_using.pdf

The intention to post these academic papers is because this is what my fellow Indians seek when they tackle you on Pakistan's contribution to the JF-17. They do not understand the business side of it and thank you for clearing the joint in Jf-17 is in the business side and not content development.

I hope my fellow countrymen get it now...

Business side is a pl15 up your Jacksie.....what a load of tripe you wrote .

Then you cry if only we had Rafael

 

[GumNaam]

A useless post filled with profanities.

 

[VkdIndian]

How do you live with such superiority complex?

You guys started an indigenous fighter program because of better budget, we didn't even try due to meager resources. Not everyone is into making indigenous products for various reason, doesn't mean they aren't capable.

No complex this side.

My post was to bring out certain facts to those who are claiming complete failure of Tejas project. Only way to drive home a point to a troll is to put it bluntly.

I am sure that PAC is a decent military complex since it has done the work it was made for. Good for Pakistan. Does that make all Indian military complexes bad?

If Pakistan wants to have truck with China or any other country then it is their decision. They know what they want and how they want it
That doesn’t mean that Tejas and all the associated developments are a failure.

It has been already accepted that Tejas was delayed due to various reasons. Few of them were due to self created cubicles of ego by various stake holders.
That is the past. Now, the project is moving in ways that it should.

As far as the capabilities go, any nation with a requirement of a fighter in decent numbers would like to have its own capability. Money or resources is just one aspect of that.
Having money/ resources may not be good enough to develop the know how. If and when Pakistan decides to take that route it would know.

Till then Indian efforts can’t be diluted on this front by few trolls (not you) by posting irrelevant stuff against Tejas.

 

[Vapnope]

No complex this side.

My post was to bring out certain facts to those who are claiming complete failure of Tejas project. Only way to drive home a point to a troll is to put it bluntly.

I am sure that PAC is a decent military complex since it has done the work it was made for. Good for Pakistan. Does that make all Indian military complexes bad?

If Pakistan wants to have truck with China or any other country then it is their decision. They know what they want and how they want it
That doesn’t mean that Tejas and all the associated developments are a failure.

It has been already accepted that Tejas was delayed due to various reasons. Few of them were due to self created cubicles of ego by various stake holders.
That is the past. Now, the project is moving in ways that it should.

As far as the capabilities go, any nation with a requirement of a fighter in decent numbers would like to have its own capability. Money or resources is just one aspect of that.
Having money/ resources may not be good enough to develop the know how. If and when Pakistan decides to take that route it would know.

Till then Indian efforts can’t be diluted on this front by few trolls (not you) by posting irrelevant stuff against Tejas or for JF-17.

Agreed. Just a friendly suggestion, dont stoop to the levels of trolls otherwise this would become a troll fest.

 

[GumNaam]

No complex this side.

My post was to bring out certain facts to those who are claiming complete failure of Tejas project. Only way to drive home a point to a troll is to put it bluntly.

I am sure that PAC is a decent military complex since it has done the work it was made for. Good for Pakistan. Does that make all Indian military complexes bad?

If Pakistan wants to have truck with China or any other country then it is their decision. They know what they want and how they want it
That doesn’t mean that Tejas and all the associated developments are a failure.

It has been already accepted that Tejas was delayed due to various reasons. Few of them were due to self created cubicles of ego by various stake holders.
That is the past. Now, the project is moving in ways that it should.

As far as the capabilities go, any nation with a requirement of a fighter in decent numbers would like to have its own capability. Money or resources is just one aspect of that.
Having money/ resources may not be good enough to develop the know how. If and when Pakistan decides to take that route it would know.

Till then Indian efforts can’t be diluted on this front by few trolls (not you) by posting irrelevant stuff against Tejas or for JF-17.

hal is a beaurocratic nightmare with babus masquerading as engineers while the JF17 is an entirely Pakistani design that is built and manufactured in China using Chinese resources that they in turn transfer to us in form of turn key factories. now you can keep massaging your rear cheeks at that picture of JF17 fuselage being shipped from China since this is what happened until they set up factories in Pakistan but it doesn't change the fact that this may just be the fuselage of one of "those" JF17s that flew in indian airspace bombing at will while the iaf m2000s refused to even challenge them sighting "malfunctioning radars". either they were too afraid or the EW suite of the JF17s had rendered your fly boys nuttless. this is why in spite of having the tejas program for over 30 years, india had to turn to an off the shelf solution like rafale that only has the spectar as it's sole selling point. alas, thanks to Qatar, even that secret is an open book for us. you should've taken my advice and gone shopping for the tie fighters.

 

[halupridol]

For all the dpsu bhakts,,,,,, vkindian, hostile insurgent, mirageblue n all other bhakts,,, plz respond.
Where is MK1A??
where is the protype?

What r the time lines as professed by chai biskut guys, plz be honest. (initial, current n what actually is going to happen in ur opinion)?
Ps- i know u guys N what u wud think,, I'm anti national (unbhayya) n such.

But Plz do respond.

Now imagine,,,, this is not a engineering project. ( but so much similar )
I am a health professional,,,, u brought ur sick son to me,,, u wanted him to be healthy(asr) ,,,,, now I return him to u as a retard/cutting off a limb n administered generic medicine.
How wud u guys respond(remember I saved him,,n perhaps thr r guys who cud have done it without making ur son becoming dumb or handicapped).... Wud u praise my (indigenous)work?
Hey it helped me (indian docs to learn new technique) plus it helped desi industry coz I prescribed generic drugs, to improve.

 

[Windjammer]

I think joint venture for India and Pakistan are oranges and apples. Your post has made it abundantly clear to my fellow Indians that Pakistan has joint ownership because of the developmental costs, marketing skills and displays in airshows.

On the contrary for India, a joint ownership includes finances but also our own content in the product. For example, the most popular joint project on this side of the border is the Brahmos. While Russia has significant contribution initially, today India makes the software used to guide the BrahMos missile accurately to its target is developed by India, The support system used to convey trajectory changes for targeting moving vessels and the fire control system used to track and engage targets are also developed by India, The seeker is also Indian leaving only the propulsion to be Russian.

Additionally, India is making the air variant through HAL and was single handedly responsible in design, development of the plan to mount them on MKIs.

This is what we are used to and you can now clearly understand why we get perplexed when it comes to the JF-17.

It also becomes important for you to understand that our assembled products are strictly under Buyer -seller agreements and we don't claim to be joint owners or collaborators at all. We do have some T-O-T and we do export some parts

https://dfnc.ru/en/vtc/hal-seeking-to-export-su-30mki-and-mig-29-engine-spares/

Lastly, the development of Tejas has been the biggest learning experience for India and also not so known is most documented experience. I have followed the researchers from IISC and ADA publish their research and findings in world wide Journals much before it's actual first flight. When I was a student I would actively read those papers on IEEE Explore when I had membership to the site.

A sample for you below, but can get you many many more if you want.

http://triggered.stanford.clockss.o...atypon.com/doi/pdf/10.1260/1757-2258.2.1-2.57

[/URL]

https://www.academia.edu/download/53394618/31_Flow_Anlaysis_on_Hal_Tejas_Aircraft_using.pdf

The intention to post these academic papers is because this is what my fellow Indians seek when they tackle you on Pakistan's contribution to the JF-17. They do not understand the business side of it and thank you for clearing the joint in Jf-17 is in the business side and not content development.

I hope my fellow countrymen get it now...

Please don't try to grow a brain of your own choice albeit being victims of your propaganda factory, it's impossible for you guys to come to terms with some realities....which ideally serves our purpose thus we have been able to not only surprise you but humiliate a far bigger force that even your PM was forced to make lame excuses.
Anyways since the Indian members despite being kicked out are always desperate to return to PDF, obviously to have any voice but in hindsight it provides them a learning curve so let me spoon feed you.
As you gave the example of Brahmos, so let me teach you some basics, you may call it whatever but it is actually based on the original Russian Yakhont system. With some modifications it became Brahmos....the original system was inducted by Russia and you can see the resemblance.. although we know it's hard for you kind to digest but do you see anything similar in design or appearance to JF-17 or the JF-17 in PLAAF service.

Let me hammer it in further,
F-6 (MiG-19) was once the backbone of the PAF. A very unique example. It's a Russian designed fighter built by the Chinese, Pakistani engineers wired it to fire American Sidewinder missiles, the pilot sits on a British Martin-Baker ejection seat, and it's equipped with French avionics. But when it shot down numerous Indian aircraft during the 1971 war, no one mentioned all the above features, it was simply IAF SU-7, Hunter or MiG-21 shot down by PAF F-6.
Here ends the lesson.