India, U.S. closer to pact to share military logistics: officials

[Rajaraja Chola]

If only more Americans realized how full of hate, scorn, and ridicule, for our country most Indians feel, this would never happen. I know I will work politically to make sure it doesn’t or limit it. Spending some time on PDF would cure them of any notions of American-Indian cooperation or friendship.

Can you blame India for not trusting USA after nearly 50 years of cold hostility with us? Every US president openly hated India, and the situation changed only after Bill Clinton came onto presidency and the Kargil War to look into India's point of view. NSG was created by the US to form an discriminatory grouping (Agreed. US got India the waiver from the same NSG. Really appreciated) of limiting Atomic bombs and peaceful nuclear know how. Last but not the least, sending of Nuclear powered AC during 1971 crisis.

Its just in the last 15 years the relationship have normalised and moved onto great height. Thanks to George Bush and Manmohan Singh. Even now the activities of NSA, using diplomats as spy on friendly countries, tapping communication even of head of states, makes us view with suspicion. To be honest, USA needs to bridge that trust deficit. Modi is risking his political career by signing the LSA. The ball is in US court now to provide India what it wants. Technology.

 

[Desertfalcon]

You are probably a American of Pakistani origin. Hence this stance.

Not at all. I'm an American of 100% Anglo-Saxon origin from a family that has been American for almost four centuries now and my views were learned here on PDF from your brother Indian posters.

To be honest, USA needs to bridge that trust deficit.

If that is the case then those Americans should never actually learn of the attitude of so many Indians I have dealt with here. Honestly, had those Indian posters here been on the payroll of Islamabad, in order to sully the image of India to Americans, they could not have done a better job.

 

[dadeechi]

Not at all. I'm an American of 100% Anglo-Saxon origin from a family that has been American for almost four centuries now and my views were learned here on PDF from your brother Indian posters.


If that is the case then those Americans should never actually learn of the attitude of so many Indians I have dealt with here. Honestly, had those Indian posters here been on the payroll of Islamabad, in order to sully the image of India to Americans, they could not have done a better job.

Your English does seem to be like English - like @gambit @mike2000 is back @Steve781

Anyway Indians do not even hate China with whom India fought a bloody war.

All I can see is Indians hating US is your day dream and India getting closer to US is your nightmare.

Only a Pakistani would take this stance. I cannot think of any other person or country of origin taking this stance.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Not at all. I'm an American of 100% Anglo-Saxon origin from a family that has been American for almost four centuries now and my views were learned here on PDF from your brother Indian posters.


If that is the case then those Americans should never actually learn of the attitude of so many Indians I have dealt with here. Honestly, had those Indian posters here been on the payroll of Islamabad, in order to sully the image of India to Americans, they could not have done a better job.

Selectively quoting my post does not prove your point. Indians are in awe of US technological progress, and US is currently the melting pot of the world's best minds. However that is linked to economic and technological issues.

Vast majority of Indians living inside towns and rural areas do not understand the benefit of technological progess and co-op with US. According to them, US has not sided with India during wars, tried to "steal" IPR for various naturally grown crops such as Basmati etc. No Political parties will bear the accusation of being an "stooge" to US. It will finish them off politically.

Educated Indians know the benefits US brings India to the table. But again due to past experiences they would want India to sleep with one eye open with regard to US. Its not as if, US will completely trust India once the agreements are signed. Do u think US policy makers are not oblivious to the ground situation and US image in India? But some things and concerns has to be brushed aside and future benefits.

Its not a big risk for US political leaders to sign these for India. India and Indians over the years have built very positive image of India in USA unlike our neighbours. But for India it is a risk. If India is taking an huge leap of trust, US must reciprocate. Simple as that.

 

[Desertfalcon]

All I can see is Indians hating US is your day dream

Ha! Then perhaps it's your English that is poor as you seem to have not been able to read and comprehend the endless insulting posts against my country, written by your brother Indians.

Do u think US policy makers are not oblivious to the ground situation and US image in India?

No, I don't think that most of them have a clue, but I do and am fairly well politically connected, having run for US political office myself, and so I will do my part to inform them.

 

[dadeechi]

Ha! Then perhaps it's your English that is poor as you seem to have not been able to read and comprehend the endless insulting posts against my country, written by your brother Indians.

Forget about my English and comprehension my dear as I never claimed to have been educated in the US. Are you sure you did your schooling in the US?

 

[anon45]

Nope, I learned it right here on PDF from your brother Indian posters.


I refuse to be friends with people who slander, insult, and ridicule, my country at every turn. I know better now than to ever trust an Indian with my country's trust.


Maybe not, but my ability to influence politics is, and I have learned well here.

Come on DesertFalcon, don't get your views of India from some online forum. The statistics and government to government relations show a general positive trend in relations.

5 (or however many you are referring to) Indian posters shouldn't reflect first on India's government or the 1.2 billion Indians that are not represented by any Indian poster that offended you on defence.pk

We shouldn't trust India to have American interests at heart at this point, but we can surely recognize some common interests with which we can work together.

That working together can potentially build trust.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Forget about my English and comprehension my dear as I never claimed to have been educated in the US. Are you sure you did your schooling in the US?

Born in Hobbs, New Mexico, grew up throughout the Rocky Mountain region, graduated high school in Wyoming, went to college at the University of Utah, so yes, I'm quite sure.

That working together can potentially build trust.

We shouldn't trust India to have American interests at heart at this point, but we can surely recognize some common interests with which we can work together.

With all due respect, brother, they will play us for fools, (Because unwitting Americans have no idea of their hatred for us and will be taken in by that whole, "worlds biggest democracy" bullshit.), while savaging us in private. That is exactly what will happen. I for one, am sick and tired of trying to be "friends" with people who want to shit all over us behind our backs.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Ha! Then perhaps it's your English that is poor as you seem to have not been able to read and comprehend the endless insulting posts against my country, written by your brother Indians.


No, I don't think that most of them have a clue, but I do and am fairly well politically connected, having run for US political office myself, and so I will do my part to inform them.

Again selectively quoting me does not prove u right.
I guess you are wrong. Have a good day.

 

[anon45]

With all due respect, brother, they will play us for fools, (Because unwitting Americans have no idea of their hatred for us and will be taken in by that whole, "worlds biggest democracy" bullshit.), while savaging us in private. That is exactly what will happen. I for one, am sick and tired of trying to be "friends" with people who want to shit all over us behind our backs.

Well again its not like we are fully trusting them either at this point. It is just recognized that there are areas where our interests align. The biggest proof is these exact military deals, which wouldn't have been possible if relations were seen as negative, unless I am misunderstanding the deal. It is basically a recognition of a common security interest in the region at least.

How do you respond to polls like this which seem to take issue with the idea that Indians in general hate the US, as well as articles like this that show the the thriving non-governmental ties and marked improvement in view from both sides since the cold war?
Opinion of the United States (All) - Indicators Database | Pew Research Center

The Desi Factor in U.S.-India Relations | Foreign Policy

 

[Desertfalcon]

How do you respond to polls like this which seem to take issue with the idea that Indians in general hate the US

I trust my actual dealings and conversations with real Indians as opposed to what Indians may tell pollsters. I also believe that Indians are second to none in playing the diplomatic games needed to sucker Americans in. They will smile and feign friendship and niceties with Americans and then savage and ridicule us the second our backs are turned.

 

[kasper95]

your brother Indians.

that sounds 0% American,that gave it away.
thats someone forming a sentence in a desi language and translating it to English bro.
any way it dsnt matter.

Indians who have met or worked with Americans will tell you ordinary Americans are hardworking and straightforward people, easy to work with.
and those Indians who hate America dsnt hate the ordinary Americans but the American policies around the world.don't be so touchy about it ,if you do then you don't want to deal with most of the countries in the world because they believe American policies are the reason for the world facing terrorism.

 

[anon45]

I trust my actual dealings and conversations with real Indians as opposed to what Indians may tell pollsters. I also believe that Indians are second to none in playing the diplomatic games needed to sucker Americans in. They will smile and feign friendship and niceties with Americans and then savage and ridicule us the second our backs are turned.

Anectdotal evidence is not necessarily representative though, are the Indian's you are speaking of in positions of power and/or influence in the Indian government? If so, who are they? I am interested in finding out.

Actions tend to speak louder than words, and when it comes to action, the US and India are indeed taking actions that show a mutual interest. Its possible that the Indians are masters at hiding their true intentions that would put sun tzu to shame, but i'm skeptical of India's government being able to keep such a widespread intention a secret to put it lightly, especially if it permeates not just the government, but the population in general.

How do you see India backstabbing us anyways? For where and for what interest? Pakistan?

 

[jhungary]

@jhungary

Could you comment on LSA, does this provide India access to Deigo Garcia base for logistics support?

Many people misunderstood that LSA entail. LSA is not some agreement that void Indian or US foreign policy and make both dependent of each other foreign policy. No. in fact, LSA have nothing to do with a country's foreign policy.

LSA only work in Peacetime. It's design is to enhance cooperation during peacetime and most likely during natural disaster. In peacetime, without LSA, each ship have to charge a fee to dock and use facilities of other country, that fee include resupply, docking and port facilities (such as immigration and custom control) with LSA, this fee is waived and they become cashless. So it would save each other navy when they may visit the other country for exercise, port call or friendly visit. And thus encourage such activities.

LSA works with US agrees to open all port in and out of continental United States which US own and operates, on the other hand, India also agrees upon to open all port in and out of continental India which Indian own and operates. Without charging the other navies.

Considering US own and operate some 340 Naval Base around the world and Indian operate some 50 Naval Base around India and Indian Ocean, India is in no doubt the benefactor of this agreement That said, visiting a base for free does not mean you have to do it or take advantage for it, so, effectively, if this does not encourage anything, then probably no side would have benefit from this deal.

LSA Does not applies in war. In war, this is a different story, LSA does not entail country to enter belligerent state with LSA partner in case of a war or any sort of Military Conflict. Then standard customary law applies. If US is in war in South East Asia, and US dock in an Indian port, LSA does not applies and the US warship must be interned and kept in the Indian port until hostilities is over. If Indian resupply the US ship, and let it leave port, Then whoever US is in war with can attack India as belligerent. as per international law of war.

Diego Garcia is not an American own base. It is a RN Base which lease to US Navy, If my understanding of the agreement that US least the Base from RN and my interpretation of LSA in correct, no, India cannot have access to Diego Garcia as per LSA, as they would need RN authority to use the port (US is also renting the port) not the US, unless India and UK have a LSA, it would not give access of Diego Garcia for free.

 

[Desertfalcon]

hat sounds 0% American,that gave it away.
thats someone forming a sentence in a desi language and translating it to English bro.

Are you high? How in the wide world of sports is a phrase like "brother Indians" 0% American?

Honestly, I can’t tell if you are pulling my leg or not as what you say here is so ludicrous. Dude, I've been on this board since 2009! and who I am is evident in literally hundreds of posts I've made over the years. Just like this recent one having nothing to do with India...

More Americans See China as World’s Leading Economic Power

That's me! I'm retired USAF, the son and grandson of American cattle ranchers. Check any post of mine you want, bud.

Anectdotal evidence is not necessarily representative though, are the Indian's you are speaking of in positions of power and/or influence in the Indian government? If so, who are they? I am interested in finding out.

I have no idea. You would have to ask them. For my opinion however, it not only makes little difference, I actually put far more stock in the opinions of everyday Indians than some lying sack-of-crap politician, no matter what the country. That's what politicians do for a living; tell people what they desperately want to hear.

Actions tend to speak louder than words, and when it comes to action, the US and India are indeed taking actions that show a mutual interest. Its possible that the Indians are masters at hiding their true intentions that would put sun tzu to shame, but i'm skeptical of India's government being able to keep such a widespread intention a secret to put it lightly, especially if it permeates not just the government, but the population in general

Oh, I think Sun Tzu has nothing on Indian abilities to play and deceive. They've been doing it at least as long as the Chinese have and we starry-eyed Americans far too often, are so young and naive and don't realize when we are being played.

How do you see India backstabbing us anyways? For where and for what interest? Pakistan?

Certainly! Pakistan, and China. I don't mind that we may be able to have occasional and temporary interest, but once that interest is over, toss them under the bus. They hate us, they ridicule us, and they are betting all their chips that they can sucker us and rely on enough American suck-ups, to get what they want from us.