India to halve size of new mountain corps

[Indian Patriot]

so whats the problem corporate are the biggest source of job in india for youths

For some people corporates are evil villains.

 

[Srinivas]

The GOI is in dilemma all these years,

Will Chinese attack or will they not, Shall we buy fighter jets .... wait .... wait .... Chinese are still in SCS, shall we raise the mountain divisions ...... yes good idea lets give the approval ..... no wait its expensive .... seems chinese have no intentions of attacking ....

We need good deterrent and offensive capabilities against China. we need fighter jets and offensive divisions. When push comes to shove we must be able to give a befitting reply so that they will not try their luck for a long time.

 

[Abingdonboy]

So why have a Strike Corps HQ in Ambala which is in Haryana and very well within reach of the Pakistani frontier?

This is very different. The terrain is very different in Amabala than it is in Arunachal and anyway the Strike Corps have been in existence for decades, the MSC's HQ is the very first 21st HQ the IA is raising that will be able to make use of the advances in technology such as fibre optics and satellites.

When the US's CENTCOM can direct wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan then I don't think there is much issue with the IA directing combat ops from Jharkhand.

The Chinese have no apprehension about building super advanced infrastructure in Tibet and stationing their majority forces within shouting distance of border. But India has to go on the back foot. In fact the reason why border infrastructure in Arunachal, Sikkim, Ladakh was neglected because the Indian babus felt an advanced infra at the border will speed up Chinese incursion into India.

India is now building up its infrastructure on the Indian side of the LAC.

They may find it suprising- but when exports are down, debt is high and growth is nowhere close to the figures you are showing, you really will have problems getting actual money. And if we spend money on statue, bulgari glasses, dressing like peacock etc., it's even more difficult to get money. In the middle of all this, if a damp squib budget is presented with muted provisions for growth we will have to halve mountain corps, cut Rafale deal etc.

Come on sir, this is more a reflection of your political stance vis a vis Modi. As it stands the economic (and military) situation the current GoI is tackling they have inherited entirely from the past GoI. The past GoI/MoD/DM are the ones who sanctioned this MSC that never looked viable in the terms they were talking- 80,000 men by 2018/19 at least not if you wanted them to be properly equipped.

The mess is gradually being addressed, we are witnessing a period of consolidation right now (revised MSC figures and renegotiating the Rafale deal) but the next 2-3 years is going to see a massive revival in India's fortunes both economically and militarily- you can already see that for yourself (increased investor confidence, higher GDP figures, deals like P-17A and SSNs being cleared etc).


If the current budget is a "damp squid" (not saying it wasn't 100% what we all expected/hoped for) then those of the past where, what? They certainly weren't better than this. Let's not forget that it was under the UPA's tenure that India's defence spending as a proportion of its GDP fell to its lowest since 1962 at a measly 1.78% of GDP.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

This is very different. The terrain is very different in Amabala than it is in Arunachal and anyway the Strike Corps have been in existence for decades, the MSC's HQ is the very first 21st HQ the IA is raising that will be able to make use of the advances in technology such as fibre optics and satellites.

When the US's CENTCOM can direct wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan then I don't think there is much issue with the IA directing combat ops from Jharkhand.



India is now building up its infrastructure on the Indian side of the LAC.


Come on sir, this is more a reflection of your political stance vis a vis Modi. As it stands the economic (and military) situation the current GoI is tackling they have inherited entirely from the past GoI. The past GoI/MoD/DM are the ones who sanctioned this MSC that never looked viable in the terms they were talking- 80,000 men by 2018/19 at least not if you wanted them to be properly equipped.

The mess is gradually being addressed, we are witnessing a period of consolidation right now (revised MSC figures and renegotiating the Rafale deal) but the next 2-3 years is going to see a massive revival in India's fortunes both economically and militarily- you can already see that for yourself (increased investor confidence, higher GDP figures, deals like P-17A and SSNs being cleared etc).

And 500,000 Crores is about $10 Billion. That's enugh to buy those Rafales and Mountain Strike corps and so on.

If the current budget is a "damp squid" (not saying it wasn't 100% what we all expected/hoped for) then those of the past where, what? They certainly weren't better than this. Let's not forget that it was under the UPA's tenure that India's defence spending as a proportion of its GDP fell to its lowest since 1962 at a measly 1.78% of GDP.

It's been a year dude. And the mess was never that diffult to fix. It was just a lack of growth for 2 years because of lack of government confidence, not some housing bubble or anything fundamental. Two budgets, both messed up. And now we need 'more time'? Before the last 2 years UPA growth rates had been largely good. So it's really not a complicated fix.

 

[janon]

Actually this is a very good move, if the ORBAT is properly planned. I always felt that raising a new corps with 90,000 soliders was simply throwing numbers at the problem, rather than addressing the problem more cost effectively. In the larger run, so many soldiers would cost a lot in terms of salaries, pensions etc. Our army is oversized as it is, for the capability they provide. The focus should be on increasing the lethality of each unit and soldier, rather than inducting more soldiers.

Giving this smaller corps more firepower and mobility is the right way to go. Have a substantial component be heli-portable, give them enough aerial firepower and artillery, and so on. Modernizing the army would bring much more benefits per cost than expanding the army would.

Not to mention, improve the road and rail network and other infrastructure in that area, which will actually give a return on the investment.

 

[Abingdonboy]

It's been a year dude. And the mess was never that diffult to fix. It was just a lack of growth for 2 years because of lack of government confidence, not some housing bubble or anything fundamental. Two budgets, both messed up. And now we need 'more time'? Before the last 2 years UPA growth rates had been largely good. So it's really not a complicated fix.

There is always going to be a lag when you are talking macro-economics mate, usually around 18 months. India's economy is now worth $2.3 trillion USD and growing at 7-8%, eventually this will allow the GoI to release the purse strings for the MoD. That is why I see what the DM is doing (cutting the MSC down and going for 36 Rafales off the shelf) as buying time for the forces- give them just enough for the short term and plan for the future where the budget will be FAR larger. As such 36 Rafales starting from 2017 and then more when there is more to spend from 2019-

 

[GURU DUTT]

It's been a year dude. And the mess was never that diffult to fix. It was just a lack of growth for 2 years because of lack of government confidence, not some housing bubble or anything fundamental. Two budgets, both messed up. And now we need 'more time'? Before the last 2 years UPA growth rates had been largely good. So it's really not a complicated fix.

so you think modi has a magik wand that he over nite fixes the crtaters created deu to corruption and incompetence of UPA 1 & 2 over a period of 10 years

now as for MRCA what did UPA 1&2 did for it they even messed up vikrmaditya and AJT deals andwe ended up paying twice if not thrice the actual ammount ?

do i need to point owt all the "SCAMs under UPA 1&2"

now as for halfing the size of mountain corps well we can always double it when conditions get better cheers mate

 

[Abingdonboy]

Actually this is a very good move, if the ORBAT is properly planned. I always felt that raising a new corps with 90,000 soliders was simply throwing numbers at the problem, rather than addressing the problem more cost effectively. In the larger run, so many soldiers would cost a lot in terms of salaries, pensions etc. Our army is oversized as it is, for the capability they provide. The focus should be on increasing the lethality of each unit and soldier, rather than inducting more soldiers.

Giving this smaller corps more firepower and mobility is the right way to go. Have a substantial component be heli-portable, give them enough aerial firepower and artillery, and so on. Modernizing the army would bring much more benefits per cost than expanding the army would.

Not to mention, improve the road and rail network and other infrastructure in that area, which will actually give a return on the investment.

Exactly right! Until the IA is in a position to spend $10,000 USD on equipment for each individual soldier (like this in the West do) there is no sense in simply expanding the revenue burden on the IA by going for more men. I have been having a similar conversation with members on another thread here on this very topic- a cut in the IA's manpower by 20-30% would actually lead to a MASSIVE increase in its lethality.

 

[mike2000 is back]

So why have a Strike Corps HQ in Ambala which is in Haryana and very well within reach of the Pakistani frontier?

The Chinese have no apprehension about building super advanced infrastructure in Tibet and stationing their majority forces within shouting distance of border. But India has to go on the back foot. In fact the reason why border infrastructure in Arunachal, Sikkim, Ladakh was neglected because the Indian babus felt an advanced infra at the border will speed up Chinese incursion into India.

Face it, India has a strategic phobia of China.

Well, when faced with a bigger/superior adversary, its better to hedge your bets and be more pragmatic. So i think its wise for the India DM to base their HQ far from front line. You don't want your headquarters to be qickly overun when/if the ennemy attacks. It will destabised/cripple/destabilise your response competely. So wise/pragmatic decision

 

[Indian Patriot]

This is very different. The terrain is very different in Amabala than it is in Arunachal and anyway the Strike Corps have been in existence for decades, the MSC's HQ is the very first 21st HQ the IA is raising that will be able to make use of the advances in technology such as fibre optics and satellites.

There is no difference unless you take into account Ambala is facing Pakistan whereas on the other hand is China whose soldiers appear 7 feet tall for strategic planners in Delhi. I respect your effort in spin-doctoring but even you know your theory is BS.

Moving men and material over plains is easier than over mountainous areas. In fact plains is very easy while mountains are a logistic nightmare. Fibre optics and satellites will be used in other corps as well. Thing is India is too paranoid about China. A confident general would be stationed as near to the battlefield as possible without risking himself, not as far away as possible to turn back and run away. In this age of technology evacuation could be possible since HQ is not that staffed like you say.

When the US's CENTCOM can direct wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan then I don't think there is much issue with the IA directing combat ops from Jharkhand.

Please don't compare US military budget, resources, technology, capability, industrial muscle with that of India. There is a limit to blind patriotism.

Well, when faced with a bigger/superior adversary, its better to hedge your bets and be more pragmatic. So i think its wise for the India DM to base their HQ far from front line. You don't want your headquarters to be qickly overun when/if the ennemy attacks. It will destabised/cripple/destabilise your response competely. So wise/pragmatic decision

That's what I am saying. India is scared of China. Indian planners are under the assumption that any war with China in future will be a repeat of 1962 when the army made a super fast retreat and the Chinese virtually dominated Arunachal and Assam.

To avoid the capture of their generals or HQ and suffer a psychological defeat the HQ has been set up as far away as possible.

 

[mike2000 is back]

.

When the US's CENTCOM can direct wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan then I don't think there is much issue with the IA directing combat ops from Jharkhand.

I was basically on the ground after i red this.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Exactly right! Until the IA is in a position to spend $10,000 USD on equipment for each individual soldier (like this in the West do) there is no sense in simply expanding the revenue burden on the IA by going for more men. I have been having a similar conversation with members on another thread here on this very topic- a cut in the IA's manpower by 20-30% would actually lead to a MASSIVE increase in its lethality.

Actually; the rationale between raising the new forces is some-what flawed.

The largest Op forces there should be Independent Mtn. Bdes and Mtn. Divs. And new forces should be raised in those unit sizes. Secondly Logistical capability must match the sizes of units being raised. Thirdly it makes more sense to raise Helo and Missile units simultaneously. Fourthly it also makes sense to beef up Air-Assets in parallel capable of deployment/operation there. Finally, there is now an understanding that a Northern Conflict can also be fought in the IOR.

All that having been said; the risk of conflict is much less now than earlier, notwithstanding the maneuvering that takes place off and on.

 

[Indian Patriot]

India is seriously outnumbered, under-funded and under-powered when it comes to China. The Chinese soldiers walk 20 km into Ladakh, just a handful of them and entire Indian battalions are scared of even asking them to leave. Instead they will hold placards and signs saying this is Indian territory. It sounds like a sick joke from a dark satire. The Chinese will enter India when they please, stay for as long as they please and move back when they please.

There were lots of hopes pinned on Modi that at least he won't be suffering from the 1962 phobia. But it seems the fear of China runs too deep in Delhi.

India needs to ignore Pakistan and concentrate on China and the mountains. This obsession with Pakistan and pre-partition nostalgia needs to be get rid of as soon as possible.

 

[sathya]

I read somewhere we have very less budget for army, that mountain division will get old weapons from war reserves

 

[Indian Patriot]

I read somewhere we have very less budget for army, that mountain division will get old weapons from war reserves

The active standing army has outdated INSAS rifle and old weapons, how much older will the reserves be?