India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[Abingdonboy]

Great News is that by 2017 we will get all new 60 Rafales

2017 is too optimistic but by 2019/20 the IAF could have 63 Rafales (actually more because by 2019 the HAL production line would be up and running if the 108 made in India Rafales is sill on) as opposed to about 30 Rafales that would be in service by the same time was the MMRCA deal being pursued in its current format- this is a HUGE deal.

189 Rafales in service by 2024/5 with full ToT and all relevant industrial benefits is not something to be laughed at, if this is really on the table the GoI need to grab it with both hands and not let go.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

If this deals goes through the need for the FGFA remains (for the long term) however it buys the IAF more time to allow the FGFA's development to work at its own pace and buys the IAF some breathing space. As such it would be an incredibly shrewd decision and would turn around the IAF's outlook from negative to positive almost overnight.

You forget one factor. Most people don't realize that the early Sukhoi batches are actually gonna be due for retirement within the next decade. So the best case scenario- as the FGFA batches come in, the Su 30 we inducted in mid 1990s will be 25 years old and will be replaced. So the way to look at this might be- Jaguars, Mirage, Mig 29s which are even older are the prime replacement options for Rafale. It will not be obvious for some time since these won't be retired imedeately and the older Bisons will go out first. But eventually- LCA Mk-1 Mk2 will play role of Bisons, Rafale of the medium class and FGFA will directly replace the depleting Sukhoi fleet.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Its a lot of money to flow out of India, so can't say I am thrilled to see that happen.

But if it does happen, I hope Modi like a good Baniya, got the best deal for us, including significant ToT.

In the long term it really isn't that much money especially not for a nation like India and the benefits this money will bring are huge.

 

[NKVD]

Some time I am amused people with these kind of blind following

So what in your Mind he should do you will Probably Say Scrap MMRCa well its will curtailed the Reliability of india as customer. whatever was flawed in MMrCA was due to inefficient RFP clauses that dragged this deal beyond time limit.

Why not then F-18 SH with probably 30% cheaper than Rafale

ohhh IAF still not have balls to play in the Hands of US. with strings attached

 

[anant_s]

This would be my guess- 60 off the shelf Rafales whilst the larger production of Rafales inside India was being worked out and set up (I was always in favour of more Rafales off the shelf anyway) so I don't see this deal being confined to 60 units for the IAF alone as is being reported by some- that makes ZERO sense.

I'm hazarding a guess but looks like Rafale M might be on Navy's menu. In larger picture considering the capability profile of Rafale, it has a potential to cover up for lot of planes in India's fleet due for retirement (MiG 27, Jaguar, even Mirage 2000 etc) and act as backup to AMCA delays. So if military planners are convinced, we might want a much larger fleet of Rafales (in various variants) in foreseeable future and thus this possibly the first of several batch of Rafale that might don Indian colors.

 

[migflug]

Eager to hear officailly. Hope 63 +126. Will give iaf needed strength and time for development of fgfa amca without worrying abt dwindlling sqadrons. We r going to have more than 200 of these birds if navy buys it too .More than FRANCE

 

[Manindra]

F18 did not meet most of the tech parameters under MMRCA when field evaluated . If i remember correctly it did not pass the cold tests at all. The US planes never designed to operate in high altitudes with cold weather conditions. I am sure Canada would replace F18s definitely with something else as they incurred lots of difficulty in operating F18s

None of the Jet design for High Attitude , There made special tweak for this. For your Information Tejas MK1 engine uses F-18 engine which works on high attitude & Tejas MK2 engine would use Super Hornet engine which would also operate in high attitude.
US does not ready to provide complete TOT so these propaganda to save face.

 

[Abingdonboy]

You forget one factor. Most people don't realize that the early Sukhoi batches are actually gonna be due for retirement within the next decade. So the best case scenario- as the FGFA batches come in, the Su 30 we inducted in mid 1990s will be 25 years old and will be replaced. So the way to look at this might be- Jaguars, Mirage, Mig 29s which are even older are the prime replacement options for Rafale. It will not be obvious for some time since these won't be retired imedeately and the older Bisons will go out first. But eventually- LCA Mk-1 Mk2 will play role of Bisons, Rafale of the medium class and FGFA will directly replace the depleting Sukhoi fleet.

Indeed, this is the way I see it going and then by 2027/30 when the DARIN III Jaguars are a bit long in the tooth the AMCA can replace them.


This is becoming all too logical though, very un-Indian !!!

 

[gslv]

Great News is that by 2017 we will get all new 60 Rafales

Frak ToT . First we need jets .

Even if we get 60 planes by 2017, I think pilots wouldn't be trained for that. Does anyone know how many months it takes a pilot to get trained in a specific plane @Abingdonboy??

 

[uparyupari]

I'm hazarding a guess but looks like Rafale M might be on Navy's menu. In larger picture considering the capability profile of Rafale, it has a potential to cover up for lot of planes in India's fleet due for retirement (MiG 27, Jaguar, even Mirage 2000 etc) and act as backup to AMCA delays. So if military planners are convinced, we might want a much larger fleet of Rafales (in various variants) in foreseeable future and thus this possibly the first of several batch of Rafale that might don Indian colors.

I am certain this will also factor in as a Plan B for the Naval AMCA.

 

[SuperSubrayan]

2017 is too optimistic but by 2019/20 the IAF could have 63 Rafales (actually more because by 2019 the HAL production line would be up and running if the 108 made in India Rafales is sill on) as opposed to about 30 Rafales that would be in service by the same time was the MMRCA deal being pursued in its current format- this is a HUGE deal.

189 Rafales in service by 2024/5 with full ToT and all relevant industrial benefits is not something to be laughed at, if this is really on the table the GoI need to grab it with both hands and not let go.

It's is .But as per source our PM looking to break or skip red tapes in getting 60-63 rafale by 2017. We gift french with 60 rafale orders so we expect them to take care of our immediate problems. If it's true then it can't get better do IAF . Asia's most advanced 4th fighter will be with India

 

[Abingdonboy]

Even if we get 60 planes by 2017, I think pilots wouldn't be trained before that. Does anyone know how many months it takes a pilot to get trained in a specific plane @Abingdonboy??

Brother training will never be a major holdup in these deals! Between France and India the IAF will get the pilots trained up in time.

Conversion training and certification can happen in the span of a few months as the pilots won't be recruited specifically to fly on the Rafale but will already be within the IAF and qualified on single seat fighters.

 

[Manindra]

ohhh IAF still not have balls to play in the Hands of US. with strings attached

Same IAF have ball to use US frontline Transporter & special mission capable aircrafts, IN main Sub hunters are P-8Is , we ready to surrender our future $3 billion dollor ACC for the sake of EMALS & probably with US F-35C
Our Frontline frigate & under construction ACC use US GT engine.
These are just lame excuses.

 

[SuperSubrayan]

Even if we get 60 planes by 2017, I think pilots wouldn't be trained for that. Does anyone know how many months it takes a pilot to get trained in a specific plane @Abingdonboy??

Good point . But IAF and Dasault will take care of it . I guess .

 

[deckingraj]

Even if we get 60 planes by 2017, I think pilots wouldn't be trained for that. Does anyone know how many months it takes a pilot to get trained in a specific plane ??

Honing Pilot skills, creating and practicing strategies, familiarity with the machine, weapon payloads, ground operations etc etc...3-4 years at a minimum...