India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[uparyupari]

Finally!
Its true!

India to buy 60+ Rafale jets off the shelf - Rediff.com India News

India is likely to ask for lowering of the price per aircraft too when the G-to-G negotiations get underway.

By ordering 60 aircraft to be manufactured in France itself, the government is also hoping to skirt the tricky issue of guaranteeing quality of work under Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, designated as the Lead Production Agency in India.

The government's drastic decision to scrap the torturous procurement process is aimed at augmenting the IAF's falling numbers as well as save about Rs 60,000 crore (Rs 600 billion) in precious foreign exchange.

The calculation is that the 60-odd aircraft would cost around Rs 45,000 crore (Rs 450 billion) to be paid out over the next four, five years instead of over one lakh crore rupees (Rs 1 trillion) necessary to procure the original number of 126 combat jets.

Unlikely to be True.

45,000 Crores is more than 7 Billion $ or 120 Million $ per Rafale.

That would SUCK since there is No ToT.

Without ToT, Rafale should be less than 100 million $, or its a Rip off.

 

[SRP]

https://twitter.com/x/status/586444510516752385

 

[Pichkari]

Yes but those purchases were made when the IAF had a far smaller budget and when the threat environment was not as pronounced.


60 off the shelf Rafales would buy the IAF some much needed breathing room whilst the local (in India) production issues of far more Rafales are sorted out. This would be the most pragmatic way.


Well this is just a dumb way of thinking comparing a govt-govt deal to what the MMRCA deal is/was meant to bring vis a vis local production, ToT etc etc is comparing apples and oranges and thus the costs will be very, VERY different.

i was thinking more along the lines of buying 60 off the shelf and giving proirity to tejas mk2 and AMCA.
20 billion is almost 5 times the annual budget of DRDO man.

 

[deckingraj]

You know...we discounted Bharat Karnad's articles but he did say that Rafale was asked for an off the shelf purchase of 40 aircrafts already in the French air force & they kept the price high and the deal didn't happen. I think the larger deal is unlikely unless there is a follow on purchase in a couple of years. The MMRCA contract has to be dead to go down this route, makes no sense otherwise.

You are looking for sense in a crazy situation, I think all parties want a face saver on the way out of the MMRCA mess. IAF needs planes badly & this adds to their numbers quickly, Dassault & France get a deal, they don't end up looking completely like losers and GoI can move on to whatever plan they have. I'm fairly sure there is something more here, just not convinced that it is there with the French.

I hope this nightmare gets over soon...however to be honest with you i want to screw those bunch of mother fukcers who screwed this deal...if India with a $10 billion worth of money can't pen a favorable deal with so much competition then god knows what are we capable off!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

You know...we discounted Bharat Karnad's articles but he did say that Rafale was asked for an off the shelf purchase of 40 aircrafts already in the French air force & they kept the price high and the deal didn't happen. I think the larger deal is unlikely unless there is a follow on purchase in a couple of years. The MMRCA contract has to be dead to go down this route, makes no sense otherwise.

You are looking for sense in a crazy situation, I think all parties want a face saver on the way out of the MMRCA mess. IAF needs planes badly & this adds to their numbers quickly, Dassault & France get a deal, they don't end up looking completely like losers and GoI can move on to whatever plan they have. I'm fairly sure there is something more here, just not convinced that it is there with the French.

I'm not too sure about that, I agree there is something else going on here but I don't think this is all about face saving I think this looks like the GoI trying a new, more pragmatic, approach to solving all the issue with the MMRCA i.e. delayed induction and issues with local production.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Numbers will probably have to be made up from elsewhere, the way the French were going, this deal would have been a CAG nightmare. A G2G contract might be the way out.

I'm not sure that this deal will be a CAG nightmare. There is evidence that this is a very transparent process of selection this time. I think that might have been the problem. Like all things done under the congress is presented as corrupt, a lot of time might have been expended in looking for 'bribes' or 'faults'. That didn't come through so they're watering it down. The cost of bringing in any other platform with this for the medium role will be on the whole even bigger than any gains the French will give us.

 

[uparyupari]

https://twitter.com/x/status/586444510516752385

114 million per Rafale, still too expensive.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Rediff catching same story.

Live! India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off: sources

08:47India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off: sources:
Noted Strategic Affairs expert Nitin Gokhale says quoting highly-placed sources: India is likely to buy about 60 Rafale combat jets from Dassault Aviation instead of 126 aircraft proposed in the original request for proposal meant to be procured in under the process that began some eight years ago.

The decision to buy nearly three and a half squadrons (between 60-63 aircraft) of Rafale jets for the Indian Air Force was taken at the highest political level hours before Prime Minister Narendra Modi embarked on his three-nation tour on Thursday, the sources added.

Given the huge financial and operational implication, the government thought it prudent to take a strategic decision rather than leave it to a bureaucratic process. The French are likely to be told of this decision by the Prime Minister himself when he meets President Francois Hollande in Paris on Friday.

Under the new proposal, the entire process for procuring 126 combat jets would be scrapped, sources revealed.


Live! India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off: sources - Rediff.com India News

Means ZERO TOT and ZERO Make In Inida. I think this is pure poitics. This deal was done under congress so screw this.

I'm not too sure about that, I agree there is something else going on here but I don't think this is all about face saving I think this looks like the GoI trying a new, more pragmatic, approach to solving all the issue with the MMRCA i.e. delayed induction and issues with local production.

I think this GOI screwing the deal because it was done under congress.

 

[ashok321]

Unlikely to be True.

45,000 Crores is more than 7 Billion $ or 120 Million $ per Rafale.

That would SUCK since there is No ToT.

Without ToT, Rafale should be less than 100 million $, or its a Rip off.

Wait for fine prints type.

France can still supply blueprints for Rafale, or who knows if they have decided to help India on engine technology...

Don't speculate.

 

[Abingdonboy]

i was thinking more along the lines of buying 60 off the shelf and giving proirity to tejas mk2 and AMCA.
20 billion is almost 5 times the annual budget of DRDO man.

I guess this is another, and quite logical, plan IF there is a coordinated approach to this. It can't just be the IAF gets these 60 Rafales to meet their immediate needs (they wouldn't even do that given how far their Sqn strength has fallen) but their medium to long term needs are still unmet because the AMCA is nowhere and the FGFA project is a mess- the LCA Mk.2 can only do so much but it is not going to be a suitable substitute for the Rafale but would be a very nice compliment to it.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Wait for fine prints type.

France can still supply blueprints for Rafale, or who knows if they have decided to help India on engine technology...

Don't speculate.

I'm sure we can take large printouts of the blue print and hang it on HAL auditorium wall.

 

[uparyupari]

Wait for fine prints type.

France can still supply blueprints for Rafale, or who knows if they have decided to help India on engine technology...

Don't speculate.

We are all speculating dude, even the media

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I guess this is another, and quite logical, plan IF there is a coordinated approach to this. It can't just be the IAF gets these 60 Rafales to meet their immediate needs (they wouldn't even do that given how far their Sqn strength has fallen) but their medium to long term needs are still unmet because the AMCA is nowhere and the FGFA project is a mess- the LCA Mk.2 can only do so much but it is not going to be a suitable substitute for the Rafale but would be a very nice compliment to it.

I don't think so. MMRCA and Tejas Mk2 and AMCA have space.

 

[Bang Galore]

I'm not sure that this deal will be a CAG nightmare. There is evidence that this is a very transparent process of selection this time. I think that might have been the problem. Like all things done under the congress is presented as corrupt, a lot of time might have been expended in looking for 'bribes' or 'faults'. That didn't come through so they're watering it down. The cost of bringing in any other platform with this for the medium role will be on the whole even bigger than any gains the French will give us.

It had very little to do with the UPA (I'm not one of those blaming everything on corruption of the UPA), it wasn't about the selection process itself though some questions were raised about lifetime cost calculations. This was about the French jacking up the price after they were declared L1 to a point where the increased price they were asking for would have normally made them L2. Imagine explaining that to the CAG - Rafale is L1 but costlier than L2....

 

[uparyupari]

In reality, this is just History repeating Itself

The same thing happened to Mirage 2000 deal decades ago and we got stuck with 50 odd aircraft's. Now its the same thing all over again and we get 63 Rafale .

The more things change, the more things remain the same.