India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[hkdas]

Wrong.
This was our fault .This was for our requiremrnts not theirs

they don't want to give as deep ToT as per the original conditions. so it is their fault. the conditions were send during the RFP, and the french agreed to those condition at that time,

 

[SuperSubrayan]

Mother of all BREAKING NEWS on RAFALE!!!! ......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on guys, by now it deserves to be called, Great Grandmother of all BREAKING NEWS.

UK dreams came true !!! MMRCA likely be cancelled and New govt to govt agreement to be inked win win for both of us U and Me to be precise

 

[帅的一匹]

"China rival"???? bad translator or insufficient knowledge in English??

then what it should be,Bhi?

 

[Abingdonboy]

certainly looks so, in the changed scenario, with government trying to bring in private players and money into aviation industry. I suppose if India can work out a reasonable ToT agreement with France on the issue and then the work is spread out in between a few Indian companies, it will be a far better scenario, than just keeping it confined to HAL.

This would seem to fit with the current GoI's methodology, with govt-govt deals there is far more scope for "sweetners" and to negotiate such things.

 

[kaku1]

They are reporting one element of it perhaps, it doesn't make sense to only procure 60 Rafales anyway.

Gap filler maybe.

 

[hkdas]

Well that's one way of looking at it...the other way would be...India tried to stick to its stand as it made sense however given the situation we are in and deadlock not going anywhere we need to do what's next best for us....

if we negotiate with EF, then the french will agreed to us. now they know that india don't have a plan B. our lack of planing is their power.

 

[duhastmish]

If this deal can't go through, Indian members in this forum can't sleep tight. It really hurts their health. As a Prime Minister, Modi has the responsibility to meet the hope of the Indian members. Go get the fucking planes.

Bagal mein nahin Dane buddi chali bhunane!
Means
Old lady doesn't have seed in her underarms. And she is gone to get them roasted .

Brother you don't have 5 yuan in your pocket and you talking of soft loan. More over if you can give us loan to buy 500 Rafael. Please do it we will attack you only and don't have to pay money.;-)

 

[deckingraj]

if we negotiate with EF, then the french will agreed to us. now they know that india don't have a plan B. our lack of planing is their power.

Nahi dost....we can't keep on negotiating with Eurofighter when rafael was declared the winner...This negotiation was on when both were contender...however once we declare the results we were supposed to ink the deal...now what prevented us from signing the deal is a big question mark...because TOT and cost clause were always there...now surely somebody screw up there....

 

[hkdas]

Big Announcement of Rafale Possible soon | idrw.org
French Company Dassault confirmed to media that it is not aware of any plans by India to buy french made Rafale fighter jet directly off the shelf, as reported in a certain section of India media. but media is still reporting that India has made a final decision on the purchase of Rafale jet and soon it will be discussed with french diplomats soon .
@kaku1 @SuperSubrayan @Bang Galore @deckingraj @Abingdonboy

 

[Abingdonboy]

Gap filler maybe.

This would be my guess- 60 off the shelf Rafales whilst the larger production of Rafales inside India was being worked out and set up (I was always in favour of more Rafales off the shelf anyway) so I don't see this deal being confined to 60 units for the IAF alone as is being reported by some- that makes ZERO sense.

Big Announcement of Rafale Possible soon | idrw.org
French Company Dassault confirmed to media that it is not aware of any plans by India to buy french made Rafale fighter jet directly off the shelf, as reported in a certain section of India media. but media is still reporting that India has made a final decision on the purchase of Rafale jet and soon it will be discussed with french diplomats soon .

This means little, until a deal is signed they would gain nothing by disclosing such information either way.

 

[ashok321]

Finally!
Its true!

India to buy 60+ Rafale jets off the shelf - Rediff.com India News

India is likely to ask for lowering of the price per aircraft too when the G-to-G negotiations get underway.

By ordering 60 aircraft to be manufactured in France itself, the government is also hoping to skirt the tricky issue of guaranteeing quality of work under Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, designated as the Lead Production Agency in India.

The government's drastic decision to scrap the torturous procurement process is aimed at augmenting the IAF's falling numbers as well as save about Rs 60,000 crore (Rs 600 billion) in precious foreign exchange.

The calculation is that the 60-odd aircraft would cost around Rs 45,000 crore (Rs 450 billion) to be paid out over the next four, five years instead of over one lakh crore rupees (Rs 1 trillion) necessary to procure the original number of 126 combat jets.

 

[Pichkari]

This would be my guess- 60 off the shelf Rafales whilst the larger production of Rafales inside India was being worked out and set up (I was always in favour of more Rafales off the shelf anyway) so I don't see this deal being confined to 60 units for the IAF alone as is being reported by some- that makes ZERO sense.


This means little, until a deal is signed they would gain nothing by disclosing such information either way.

But we do have same number of mirages and mig29;s right.
So maybe with 60 rafaels indigenous production may be given priority?

 

[SrNair]

they don't want to give as deep ToT as per the original conditions. so it is their fault. the conditions were send during the RFP, and the french agreed to those condition at that time,

This is business dude.Suppliers will do anything to increase their profit.It is our responsibility to provide zero loopholes in our agreement.And our govt machinery failed in that thing.

 

[Abingdonboy]

But we do have same number of mirages and mig29;s right.

Yes but those purchases were made when the IAF had a far smaller budget and when the threat environment was not as pronounced.

So maybe with 60 rafaels indigenous production may be given priority?

60 off the shelf Rafales would buy the IAF some much needed breathing room whilst the local (in India) production issues of far more Rafales are sorted out. This would be the most pragmatic way.

The calculation is that the 60-odd aircraft would cost around Rs 45,000 crore (Rs 450 billion) to be paid out over the next four, five years instead of over one lakh crore rupees (Rs 1 trillion) necessary to procure the original number of 126 combat jets.

Well this is just a dumb way of thinking comparing a govt-govt deal to what the MMRCA deal is/was meant to bring vis a vis local production, ToT etc etc is comparing apples and oranges and thus the costs will be very, VERY different.

 

[Bang Galore]

This would be my guess- 60 off the shelf Rafales whilst the larger production of Rafales inside India was being worked out and set up (I was always in favour of more Rafales off the shelf anyway) so I don't see this deal being confined to 60 units for the IAF alone as is being reported by some- that makes ZERO sense.

You know...we discounted Bharat Karnad's articles but he did say that Rafale was asked for an off the shelf purchase of 40 aircrafts already in the French air force & they kept the price high and the deal didn't happen. I think the larger deal is unlikely unless there is a follow on purchase in a couple of years. The MMRCA contract has to be dead to go down this route, makes no sense otherwise.

You are looking for sense in a crazy situation, I think all parties want a face saver on the way out of the MMRCA mess. IAF needs planes badly & this adds to their numbers quickly, Dassault & France get a deal, they don't end up looking completely like losers and GoI can move on to whatever plan they have. I'm fairly sure there is something more here, just not convinced that it is there with the French.