India to build its own stealth fighter jet.

[perplexed]

Is there a way I cant stop seeing a particular person's post ? The latest troll in this thread is a disgrace to troll community as well.

 

[Mani2020]

the 90's was a lost decade for the LCA Program

ECONOMIC CRISIS IN EARLY 90'S CAUSED FUNDING TO BE CUT WHEN FULL FUNDING STARTED AGAIN U.S AND OTHER COUNTRIES PLACED TECHNOLOGY SANCTIONS ON INDIA AFTER NUCLEAR TESTS IN 1998

yet we still got the LCA to fly in 2001 if that time is considered it took 10 years to develop LCA

LCA FIRST FLIGHT IN 2001 IOC IN 2011


@MZUABIR we are talking about future AMCA Stealth fighter why you bring up LCA and derail thread?

Give me a break man, can't you see to which post we are replying to? it was an open challenge by your mate "blackwidow" in which he clearly stated that mention any aircraft developed from scratch in less than 20 years then i will quit , now don't divert the issue

 

[Vibs]

Jiyo.... Your source is source, My source is Bogus??? Still My challenge remains, Show me one Aircraft which is design from scratch in less than 20 years...

To be honest wikipedia is not a very reliable source.
Try this one for size.
Federation of American Scientists :: F-16 Fighting Falcon

 

[Vibs]

Give me a break man, can't you see to which post we are replying to? it was an open challenge by your mate "blackwidow" in which he clearly stated that mention any aircraft developed from scratch in less than 20 years then i will quit , now don't divert the issue

Please refer post 83

 

[SQ8]

I wish I could Fullfill you dreams, But Alas! it won't be possible...


The Lightweight Fighter (LWF) program was a U.S. Air Force technology evaluation program initiated in the 1960s (1960s means 1950-1959) by a cabal of officers and defense analysts known as the "Fighter Mafia". It was spurred by then Major John Boyd's Energy-Maneuverability (E-M) theory of maneuverability, which indicated that excessive weight would have severely debilitating consequences on the maneuverability of an aircraft. Boyd's design called for a light-weight fighter with a high thrust-to-weight ratio, a gross weight of less than 20,000 pounds (9,100 kg) (half that of its counterpart, the F-15 Eagle), and high maneuverability.[1] It resulted in the development of the General Dynamics YF-16 and Northrop YF-17

Now you can calculate the timeline of development.. there is a proverb in India " Half knowledge is dangerous"

Come with Other Examples...

When was the LCA design finalized??
1990??
the LWF program was initiated in the mid to late 60's.
as a study.. it had not left the offices of the pentagon and to the manufacturers..
A Request For Proposals (RfP) was issued to the industry on January 16, 1971.!!
now.. both GD and Northdrop using their insider info had made some basic concepts starting from 65..
even then.. that is 7 years from pure conceptual drawing to a first flight in less than ten years!

But please dont quit PDF because of this.

Unlike GD(ex-convair).. and northdrop..
DRDO and HAL had not really built a fighter from scratch on that scale.. and with such requirements(Kurt tank's HF-24 doesnt really count).
So the hiccups were expected.
The blame must also go the IAF for presenting revised requirements again and again.. and to the bureaucratic mentality prevalent still in the Indian defense ministry.

And no.. the 1960's doesn't mean December 59... it means dates after 1st Jan 1960
dont mess around with dates to try and prove your point.

 

[Mani2020]

Jiyo.... Your source is source, My source is Bogus??? Still My challenge remains, Show me one Aircraft which is design from scratch in less than 20 years...

My source is not everyone's love wikipedia, where every rikshaw driver can come and edit it, my source is official f-16 website , developed by officials associated with f-16 program and some ex pilots .

Secondly its already proved thrice that it was developed in less than 20 years , even if we go by your stats of 1960 still it less than 20 years , you can argue all day and night

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Give me a break man, can't you see to which post we are replying to? it was an open challenge by your mate "blackwidow" in which he clearly stated that mention any aircraft developed from scratch in less than 20 years then i will quit , now don't divert the issue

first of all he was replying to me in that original post because i rightfully criticized DRDO and ADA for delays on LCA because of factors i mentioned somewhere on page 4 of this thread

and btw fighter jets is not a bowl of pasta you can make easily and fast they are sophisticated pieces of art that takes time to complete we made our LCA technically in 10 years the 90's decade does not even count because of economic problems and technology embargo
we could not get anything except the design frozen in that decade only in the 2000's did flight testing work on radar (in vain) and engine (in vain) happened however we were able to make FBW indigenously even though we were working in spartan conditions lack of funds and technology embargo in the 90's

stop castigating stuff you know nothing about you don't see Indian members on here talking crap

 

[Vibs]

When was the LCA design finalized??
1990??
the LWF program was initiated in the mid to late 60's.
as a study.. it had not left the offices of the pentagon and to the manufacturers..
A Request For Proposals (RfP) was issued to the industry on January 16, 1971.!!
now.. both GD and Northdrop using their insider info had made some basic concepts starting from 65..
even then.. that is 7 years from pure conceptual drawing to a first flight in less than ten years!

But please dont quit PDF because of this.

Unlike GD(ex-convair).. and northdrop..
DRDO and HAL had not really built a fighter from scratch on that scale.. and with such requirements(Kurt tank's HF-24 doesnt really count).
So the hiccups were expected.
The blame must also go the IAF for presenting revised requirements again and again.. and to the bureaucratic mentality prevalent still in the Indian defense ministry.

And no.. the 1960's doesn't mean December 59... it means dates after 1st Jan 1960
dont mess around with dates to try and prove your point.

My source is not everyone's love wikipedia, where every rikshaw drive can come and edit it, my source is official f-16 website , developed by officials associated with f-16 program and some ex pilots .

Secondly its already proved thrice that it was developed in less than 20 years , even if we go by your stats of 1960 still it less than 20 years , you can argue all day and night

Like I said. Please refer post #83. It's naive to believe a 5th gen jet can be designed from scratch within 5 years or so as some PDF members are trying to suggest. This is an entirely different league where the additional element of stealth comes into play. Irrespective of whether it's 100% indegenious or not, it'll take around 15-20 years from concept to IOC.
On a lighter note, if it could be done sooner, the Chinese would've done it.

 

[Mani2020]

When was the LCA design finalized??
1990??
the LWF program was initiated in the mid to late 60's.
as a study.. it had not left the offices of the pentagon and to the manufacturers..
A Request For Proposals (RfP) was issued to the industry on January 16, 1971.!!
now.. both GD and Northdrop using their insider info had made some basic concepts starting from 65..
even then.. that is 7 years from pure conceptual drawing to a first flight in less than ten years!

But please dont quit PDF because of this.

Unlike GD(ex-convair).. and northdrop..
DRDO and HAL had not really built a fighter from scratch on that scale.. and with such requirements(Kurt tank's HF-24 doesnt really count).
So the hiccups were expected.
The blame must also go the IAF for presenting revised requirements again and again.. and to the bureaucratic mentality prevalent still in the Indian defense ministry.

And no.. the 1960's doesn't mean December 59... it means dates after 1st Jan 1960
dont mess around with dates to try and prove your point.

You know santro you are a lucky man in a sense that you don't have to face such lame posts because of you being a moderator have an authority to delete and ban members so people don't want to have such fate, now check out the posts in last 2 pages and being a neutral person judge yourself who has been more pragmatic in his approach and who has been just crying out loud to defend himself by bogus kinda stuf

 

[Mani2020]

Like I said. Please refer post #83. It's naive to believe a 5th gen jet can be designed from scratch within 5 years or so as some PDF members are trying to suggest. This is an entirely different league where the additional element of stealth comes into play. Irrespective of whether it's 100% indegenious or not, it'll take around 15-20 years from concept to IOC.
On a lighter note, if it could be done sooner, the Chinese would've done it.

Yar if Mzubair had any conflict with you on 5th gen program or anything related to it i m not upto that , neither i m arguing on that, if you check out my posts i was only referring to "blackwidow" neither i targeted you nor anyother member

I just proved "blackwidow" wrong on his emotional challenge that no fighter from scratch was build in less than 20 years . so i proved it by facts and dates and every bit of info one can get. So what the fuss about? if you have any conflicts with what Mzubair said its b/w you and him

 

[Jango]

I had a bit of a rumble with Punjabi Sidhu myseld Mani, best if you leave them alone in their fantasy world and not derail the thread, and avoid a infraction by doing so.!

 

[Black Widow]

When was the LCA design finalized??
1990??
the LWF program was initiated in the mid to late 60's.
as a study.. it had not left the offices of the pentagon and to the manufacturers..
A Request For Proposals (RfP) was issued to the industry on January 16, 1971.!!
now.. both GD and Northdrop using their insider info had made some basic concepts starting from 65..
even then.. that is 7 years from pure conceptual drawing to a first flight in less than ten years!

But please dont quit PDF because of this.

Unlike GD(ex-convair).. and northdrop..
DRDO and HAL had not really built a fighter from scratch on that scale.. and with such requirements(Kurt tank's HF-24 doesnt really count).
So the hiccups were expected.
The blame must also go the IAF for presenting revised requirements again and again.. and to the bureaucratic mentality prevalent still in the Indian defense ministry.

And no.. the 1960's doesn't mean December 59... it means dates after 1st Jan 1960
dont mess around with dates to try and prove your point.

Sorry My Bad, I mixed up with 6th decade and 60's, you are right 60's means 1960 to 1969, while 6th decade means 1951 to 1959... My Bad....

I would like to make few things clear, American companies operate in different manner than Indian, When They felt that something like F16 is required, they started working on it... It won't be possible for them to make F16 in just 5-10 years

@ topic: AMCA is new design, but most of its sub-component will be inherited from LCA and PAK-FA (Indian are learning the basics in Russia). As per timeline first prototype will fly in 2017 (8-9 years from Jan 2011), It will be tested for 3-4 years. finally it will be inducted in IAF by 2020-2022... 13-14 year is good time to make a stealth fighter by India.... I don see any isue in it...

 

[Vibs]

Yar if Mzubair had any conflict with you on 5th gen program or anything related to it i m not upto that , neither i m arguing on that, if you check out my posts i was only referring to "blackwidow" neither i targeted you nor anyother member

No issues . We're as skeptical about HAL and DRDO as you are but can't help defending it when it's criticized by any other nationality. It's natural for Blackwidow to go out of his way to defend it. Anyways I enjoy these kind sparring sessions. At the end of the day I leave with a little more info in my arsenal.

 

[Mani2020]

No issues . We're as skeptical about HAL and DRDO as you are but can't help defending it when it's criticized by any other nationality. It's natural for Blackwidow to go out of his way to defend it. Anyways I enjoy these kind sparring sessions. At the end of the day I leave with a little more info in my arsenal.

It's natural when it comes to Pak-Ind , no matter how heavily you are criticizing your military but when there are members from other country specially those with whom you are not at good terms then certainly it all becomes good, the few minutes ago targeted subject certainly becomes worthy of praise.

The same thing happened to me in another thread related to mig and jaguar crash where every one was jst pissed off by migs and IAF strategy but suddenly when i stepped into the conversation and presented some facts the whole lot turned against me and suddenly everything related to migs and IAF strategy became good lol .

But i always say that , there should always be a criticism but constructive criticism


Moreover i think we should be more realistic and pragmatic in our approach , be honest in analysis , praise something that is good no matter from where it comes and criticize something that is not upto the mark , thats the way forward and that will let us to have healthy conversation and moreover lead to awareness .

 

[LiberalAtheist]

I had a bit of a rumble with Punjabi Sidhu myseld Mani, best if you leave them alone in their fantasy world and not derail the thread, and avoid a infraction by doing so.!

self delete