India slams Israeli attack on Gaza aid flotilla

[anathema]

Truth of the matter is Pakistani's choose to ignore Chinese Uighur problem. Why ? Because of China - an all weather friend provides soft loans for weapon equipments which in turn is aimed at us. The BOND that is created thus overrides the perceived GLOBAL MUSLIM brotherhood.

Cant you people comprehend? Is it difficult to understand the psyche. India/Indian people are in the same basket. India got weapons/information when it was truly needed during Kargil conflict from only one country .i.e ISRAEL. A bond was created coupled with the fact that ISRAEL is the only state which has balls to act against "NON STATE ACTORS" - A thing that India knows too well. How can Pakistanis even question Indians when they themselves are doing the same thing. I admit China too helped the cause by doing a black out of information but thats besides the point.

Pakistanis obsessed with religion choose to see no other perspective other than their own and Arabic world (Who in turn doesnt care for anything). Ohh in betn if the case was really about oppression then there should have been concerns about TIBET also , but zilch nada ..all lips mum..reeks of doublestandards. Anyways going by how things are happening, Passion/Emotion are injected with RELIGION testosterone and pakistanis (and others) are used as fodder to keep terrorism kettle warm. And if what i said is BS , then there would have been many more voices rather than just the Palestine cause ...Africa, Tibet , Uighur , etc.....
Hypocrisy !!!

Before anyone questions me or points to my nationality - I was one of the first who condemned Israeli actions after understanding the facts. However the opinions and strong reactions generated here before even understanding/analyzing the situation showed how prejudiced the opinion is - all in the name of religion. Please avoid generalizing Bloggers (Indians) as against Palestine cause; As Indians dont have the religion baggage - they can see through the fog and understand in a much better way. Ignoring the Neanderthal Chest thumping and wiping the Israel from face of the earth screams from Pakistani people GOP has done very little when compared to GOI which has been consistent in its action and voice with regards to Palestine.

 

[username]

What are the UNSC resolutions on Uighur Statehood or Status, as in the case of Palestine and J&K?

Domestic issues and inter-ethnic/communal tensions are internal issues wouldn't you say?

Thanks for clarifying that domestic issues are none of others bussines...

I hope the domestic issues of India like Gujarat issues were not raised by Pakistanis and your domestic problems like your Ahmedis problem is not raised by Indians in retaliation... after all they are internal issues and just based on religion/in name of championing humanitarion cause nobody interferes...

 

[sraja]

The facts are there for all to see. And its not a jew vs muslim thing unless you want to go down to the intellectual level of HAMAS that is. Its a humanitarian issue .

There are lot of false information about alleged humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Here is a report from Gaza,

Danish reporter Steffen Jensen visits Gaza to see how bad things are, given that the entire world is in an uproar over the humanitarian crisis there

Judging from the media, the situation in Gaza is desperate, everything is about to collapse, and the community is on the brink or at the level of a third world country.

The Palestinian community's immediate downfall has been prophesied numerous times in the media. People have nothing to eat, we sometimes know. The UN must from time to time to stop food distribution, either because their stocks are running low, or because they can not get diesel for their trucks, and therefore can not carry food in. And so on.

Yesterday I drove into the Gaza Strip. I don't do this as often as before [because it takes much longer to get through the checkpoints now.]

This time, I had expected to see real suffering, because with all the fuss in recent days about bringing tons of humanitarian relief in - so much that people actually sacrificed their lives for it - there certainly had to really be a deep, desperate situation in the Gaza Strip. No food. Long queues in front of UN food stocks. Hungry children with food bowls.

But this was not the picture that greeted me.

When I yesterday morning drove through Gaza City, I was immediately surprised that there are almost as many traffic jams as there always has been. Is there not a shortage of fuel? Apparently not. Gasoline is not even rationed.

Many shops were closed yesterday, Hamas has declared a general strike in protest against Israel's brutal and deadly attack on the Turkish flotilla with pro-Palestinian activists on board. So it was difficult to estimate how many products were on the shelves. Therefore I went over to the Shati refugee camp, also known as Beach Camp. Here is one of Gaza's many vegetable markets that sell much more than just fruits and vegetables.

I will not say whether, in better times has been a larger product range than there was yesterday. But there was certainly no shortage of vegetables, fruits or any other ordinary, basic foods. Tomatoes, cucumbers, corn, watermelons, potatoes - mountains of these items in the many stalls.

I must admit I was a little surprised. Because when I call down here to my Palestinian friends, they tell me about all the problems and deficiencies, so I expected that the crisis was a little more clear.

And the first woman we interviewed in the market confirms this strange, contradictory, negative mindset:



"We have nothing," she said. We need everything! Food, drinks ... everything!"

It disturbed her not at least that she stood between the mountains of vegetables, fruit, eggs, poultry and fish, while she spun this doomsday scenario....

Yousuf al-Assad Yazgy owns a fruit and vegetable outlet here in the market. All his fruit is imported from Israel.

"Not all fruit and all vegetables come from Israel. Ours does. They come from Israel. But in the Gaza Strip there is not very much fruit cultivated. Mostly tomatoes, potatoes and vegetables. So here with me are the vegetables and watermelon were from Gaza. All the fruit comes across the border from Israel," he explains, but also says that there can be long periods when the border is closed, and which therefore fruit does not come in.

On the way out of the Shati camp we stop at a small grocery store. Not any fancy, expensive business. Just a small, humble local store. The proprietor Sun Mohammed Abu Nada says they would not be able to do business if it were not for contraband goods from Egypt.

He takes us on a brief tour of the shelves and shows everything that comes from Egypt. It turns out to be much more than half of the goods. 75-80 per cent. I would estimate. Several other products - including long-life UHT milk - comes from Israel, but is also smuggled through tunnels from Egypt.

The products are more expensive, he says. Many people cannot afford to buy them, or only to buy certain things sometimes. But all the while that even such a small, poor-looking grocery store on the outskirts of a refugee camp still has so many relatively expensive smuggled goods on the shelves shows nevertheless that many of the customers at least be able to afford to buy them. Otherwise, the merchant of course could not even afford to invest in unsold inventory.

This story I have written to postulate that there are problems in the Gaza Strip, because that would be untrue. There are problems. Many problems indeed. But it is not lack of food, which primarily concern people down here. The biggest problem is the lack of jobs and a sustainable domestic economy.

Source

Here's what actually entered Gaza legally from Israel just last week of the "siege":

-- 637 truckloads, consisting of 14,069 tons of humanitarian aid. Among the goods for Gazan civilians were 810,209 liters of heavy duty diesel fuel; 21 truckloads of milk powder and baby food; 897 tons of cooking gas; 66 truckloads of fruits and vegetables; 51 truckloads of wheat; 27 truckloads of meat, chicken and fish products; 40 truckloads of dairy products; 117 truckloads of animal feed; 36 truckloads of hygiene products; 38 trucks of clothing; 22 trucks of sugar and 4 trucks of medicine and medical equipment.

In addition, 781 medical patients and accompanying individuals from the Gaza Strip crossed into Israel to receive treatment in various hospitals and 191 staff members of international organizations crossed into the Gaza Strip, and 202 crossed back from Gaza.

Source

Photo Evidence of ‘Myth of Siege of Gaza’

by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu



The” myth of the siege of Gaza” has been exploded in a research report that quotes Arab sources that say “Gaza markets are saturated with goods.” The Washington Post reported last week that Gaza “pharmacies look as well-supplied as a typical Rite Aid.”

Reserve IDF officer Lt. Col. Jonathan HaLevi, a researcher for the Institute for Contemporary Affairs, wrote that Israel’s continuing supervised flow of humanitarian aide to Gaza also has helped the Gaza economy rebound.

‘Gaza is not cut off from the outside world,” he wrote, and added that the large supply of goods and merchandise, including fuel oil, that enters Gaza through smuggling tunnels and pipelines from Egypt has actually helped bring down the cost of gasoline and diesel fuel to half the price in Israel.



Claims by United Nations officials, reported without investigation by most mainstream media, have falsely promoted the image of a humanitarian crisis and a scarcity of foods and merchandise in Gaza. HaLevi’s reported stated, “Recently, Rep. Ron Paul told Don Imus on the Fox Business Channel that Israel was "preventing food and medicine from going into Gaza. He said there are 'people that are starving' and closed with a vile suggestion that the situation of the Gazans was 'almost like in concentration camps.'"

However, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton admitted to a Congressional committee last April, “The [Gaza] crossings are no longer completely closed…. A lot of what has been said was not permitted to cross is just not accurate.”



Janine Zacharia of the Washington Post reported last week, "If you walk down Gaza City's main thoroughfare -Salah al-Din Street - grocery stores are stocked wall-too-wall with everything from fresh Israeli yogurts and hummus to Cocoa Puffs smuggled in from Egypt.” Smuggled goods are cheaper than the regular price.

The Bethlehem-based Ma'an news agency stated last February, "Gaza markets are saturated with goods." Beaches are filled with vacationers as well (photot below).

The de facto Hamas government in Gaza also has received $5 billion in cold cash since it took over control of the area from the rival Fatah faction in a bloody militia war three years ago this month. Hamas also receives millions of dollars in direct aid from Arab countries as well from the United Nations and European Union, which until last November paid for the diesel fuel to run the Gaza power plant.



The French newspaper LeMonde last October quoted Bassem Khoury, minister of national economy for the Palestinian Authority, that Hamas has profited so much from the smuggling tunnel system and outside aid that it “doesn't know what to do with its money. Taxpayers in Europe should know that as a result of this system their money ends up in Hamas' pocket."

HaLevi pointed out that the tunnel system not only supplies Hamas with more weapons it but also “serves such criminal purposes as drug running and trafficking in young women.” The Kuwaiti newspaper Awan last December reported on the phenomenon of "importing" minor girls from Egypt and selling them into prostitution in Gaza, supposedly for purposes of marriage or domestic work.

He said Hamas exploits the smuggling tunnels for “sending fighters for training in Iran and Syria, and for the import of advanced weapons systems, [including] antiaircraft and anti-tank missiles), explosives, and ammunition."

HaLevi maintained, “The position of the human rights organizations, which paint an exaggerated picture of the effects of the siege, is marred by a double standard. On the one hand, they argue vehemently that Israel is still an occupying power and must therefore see to the "security and welfare of the residents of Gaza"; yet on the other hand, the welfare and security of Gaza's residents have been severely harmed by the Hamas regime, with its gradual imposition of Islamic law while violently suppressing the opposition.

“According to their logic, Israel is obligated to help an enemy entity that is attacking it. If this were true, the United States would have a duty to extend assistance to villages in Afghanistan controlled by the Taliban fighters who are attacking coalition forces.”

The flow of weapons into Gaza occasionally is stopped by Egyptian authorities who last May seized a large cache of weapons and explosives that were slated to be smuggled into Gaza from the Sinai. The weapons stockpile included 61 anti-aircraft missiles, 40 anti-tank mines, 15 standard mines, and 5 machine guns with ammunition. Last April 1, an Egyptian newspaper reported that security forces had seized 100 anti-aircraft missiles, 45 rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), and 40 explosive devices.


Source

What is shortage in Gaza is Rockets and Weapons. The Iran-Turkey evil axis played a drama to demonize Israel so that Rockets and weapons can be imported freely into Gaza to kill Israeli civilians.

So, before joining "let us all slam Israel" bandwagon, we have to check the facts which is true, which is false propaganda.

Meengla, I already gave the source for the pictures, click the link and check the dates.

 

[sraja]

Compare Gaza situation with the situation in Sudan, you will the know the actual meaning of humanitarian crisis of immense proportion.









Vs

 

[lhuang]

Weoww :/

10char

 

[forcetrip]

You want me to start posting pictures of Sudans elites as well? Please have some facts and a lot less fiction. What is happening in Gaza is criminal. No other reason why any country would even consider giving harsh statements against Israel. But I agree with some posters that a countries got to do what a countries got to do. Condeming them means very little in todays global diplomacy. Both countries understand that strong words only make a days worth of news. I also agree why Pakistan was not quick to voice their opinion regarding the chinese militant problem, the force used then was also disproportionate. Same rules apply.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Respectfully, what you say is not much more than your very personal opinion. The bloggers all-too-often reflect what the 'real' official policy is. The bloggers, especially from the 3rd world countries, if not the world-over, are the one with time, resources and dedication to write something about issues not directly related to their own bread-n-butter. The bloggers often project the 'educated' AND ruling classes of a country--even often from autocratic systems.

Thank you for those pearls.

I'll remember that when I read

Ahmed Quraishi-Pakistan/Middle East politics, Iraq war, lebanon war, India Pakistan relations
www.paknationalists.com
Rupee News
Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz
Takmeel-e-Pakistan
Index of / Brasstacks
The Daily Mail - Daily News from Pakistan - Newspaper from Pakistan
Pakistan Observer, Online News, Pakistan News, Pakistan Newspaper, News Arround the Globe
Pakistan Politics Entertainment Blogger Interviews Urdu Section Technology - The Pakistani Spectator


etc etc etc etc etc ... many other sites maintained by members here, educated, affluent! They only represent the real official position of the govt of pakistan, i.e. terrorism, fair conclusion!

 

[gambit]

So what was the 'humanitarian aid' flotilla for?

 

[Indiarox]

There are lot of false information about alleged humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Here is a report from Gaza,

Danish reporter Steffen Jensen visits Gaza to see how bad things are, given that the entire world is in an uproar over the humanitarian crisis there

Judging from the media, the situation in Gaza is desperate, everything is about to collapse, and the community is on the brink or at the level of a third world country.

The Palestinian community's immediate downfall has been prophesied numerous times in the media. People have nothing to eat, we sometimes know. The UN must from time to time to stop food distribution, either because their stocks are running low, or because they can not get diesel for their trucks, and therefore can not carry food in. And so on.

Yesterday I drove into the Gaza Strip. I don't do this as often as before [because it takes much longer to get through the checkpoints now.]

This time, I had expected to see real suffering, because with all the fuss in recent days about bringing tons of humanitarian relief in - so much that people actually sacrificed their lives for it - there certainly had to really be a deep, desperate situation in the Gaza Strip. No food. Long queues in front of UN food stocks. Hungry children with food bowls.

But this was not the picture that greeted me.

When I yesterday morning drove through Gaza City, I was immediately surprised that there are almost as many traffic jams as there always has been. Is there not a shortage of fuel? Apparently not. Gasoline is not even rationed.

Many shops were closed yesterday, Hamas has declared a general strike in protest against Israel's brutal and deadly attack on the Turkish flotilla with pro-Palestinian activists on board. So it was difficult to estimate how many products were on the shelves. Therefore I went over to the Shati refugee camp, also known as Beach Camp. Here is one of Gaza's many vegetable markets that sell much more than just fruits and vegetables.

I will not say whether, in better times has been a larger product range than there was yesterday. But there was certainly no shortage of vegetables, fruits or any other ordinary, basic foods. Tomatoes, cucumbers, corn, watermelons, potatoes - mountains of these items in the many stalls.

I must admit I was a little surprised. Because when I call down here to my Palestinian friends, they tell me about all the problems and deficiencies, so I expected that the crisis was a little more clear.

And the first woman we interviewed in the market confirms this strange, contradictory, negative mindset:

"We have nothing," she said. We need everything! Food, drinks ... everything!"

It disturbed her not at least that she stood between the mountains of vegetables, fruit, eggs, poultry and fish, while she spun this doomsday scenario....

Yousuf al-Assad Yazgy owns a fruit and vegetable outlet here in the market. All his fruit is imported from Israel.

"Not all fruit and all vegetables come from Israel. Ours does. They come from Israel. But in the Gaza Strip there is not very much fruit cultivated. Mostly tomatoes, potatoes and vegetables. So here with me are the vegetables and watermelon were from Gaza. All the fruit comes across the border from Israel," he explains, but also says that there can be long periods when the border is closed, and which therefore fruit does not come in.

On the way out of the Shati camp we stop at a small grocery store. Not any fancy, expensive business. Just a small, humble local store. The proprietor Sun Mohammed Abu Nada says they would not be able to do business if it were not for contraband goods from Egypt.

He takes us on a brief tour of the shelves and shows everything that comes from Egypt. It turns out to be much more than half of the goods. 75-80 per cent. I would estimate. Several other products - including long-life UHT milk - comes from Israel, but is also smuggled through tunnels from Egypt.

The products are more expensive, he says. Many people cannot afford to buy them, or only to buy certain things sometimes. But all the while that even such a small, poor-looking grocery store on the outskirts of a refugee camp still has so many relatively expensive smuggled goods on the shelves shows nevertheless that many of the customers at least be able to afford to buy them. Otherwise, the merchant of course could not even afford to invest in unsold inventory.

This story I have written to postulate that there are problems in the Gaza Strip, because that would be untrue. There are problems. Many problems indeed. But it is not lack of food, which primarily concern people down here. The biggest problem is the lack of jobs and a sustainable domestic economy.

Source

Here's what actually entered Gaza legally from Israel just last week of the "siege":

-- 637 truckloads, consisting of 14,069 tons of humanitarian aid. Among the goods for Gazan civilians were 810,209 liters of heavy duty diesel fuel; 21 truckloads of milk powder and baby food; 897 tons of cooking gas; 66 truckloads of fruits and vegetables; 51 truckloads of wheat; 27 truckloads of meat, chicken and fish products; 40 truckloads of dairy products; 117 truckloads of animal feed; 36 truckloads of hygiene products; 38 trucks of clothing; 22 trucks of sugar and 4 trucks of medicine and medical equipment.

In addition, 781 medical patients and accompanying individuals from the Gaza Strip crossed into Israel to receive treatment in various hospitals and 191 staff members of international organizations crossed into the Gaza Strip, and 202 crossed back from Gaza.

Source

Photo Evidence of ‘Myth of Siege of Gaza’

by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu



The” myth of the siege of Gaza” has been exploded in a research report that quotes Arab sources that say “Gaza markets are saturated with goods.” The Washington Post reported last week that Gaza “pharmacies look as well-supplied as a typical Rite Aid.”

Reserve IDF officer Lt. Col. Jonathan HaLevi, a researcher for the Institute for Contemporary Affairs, wrote that Israel’s continuing supervised flow of humanitarian aide to Gaza also has helped the Gaza economy rebound.

‘Gaza is not cut off from the outside world,” he wrote, and added that the large supply of goods and merchandise, including fuel oil, that enters Gaza through smuggling tunnels and pipelines from Egypt has actually helped bring down the cost of gasoline and diesel fuel to half the price in Israel.



Claims by United Nations officials, reported without investigation by most mainstream media, have falsely promoted the image of a humanitarian crisis and a scarcity of foods and merchandise in Gaza. HaLevi’s reported stated, “Recently, Rep. Ron Paul told Don Imus on the Fox Business Channel that Israel was "preventing food and medicine from going into Gaza. He said there are 'people that are starving' and closed with a vile suggestion that the situation of the Gazans was 'almost like in concentration camps.'"

However, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton admitted to a Congressional committee last April, “The [Gaza] crossings are no longer completely closed…. A lot of what has been said was not permitted to cross is just not accurate.”



Janine Zacharia of the Washington Post reported last week, "If you walk down Gaza City's main thoroughfare -Salah al-Din Street - grocery stores are stocked wall-too-wall with everything from fresh Israeli yogurts and hummus to Cocoa Puffs smuggled in from Egypt.” Smuggled goods are cheaper than the regular price.

The Bethlehem-based Ma'an news agency stated last February, "Gaza markets are saturated with goods." Beaches are filled with vacationers as well (photot below).

The de facto Hamas government in Gaza also has received $5 billion in cold cash since it took over control of the area from the rival Fatah faction in a bloody militia war three years ago this month. Hamas also receives millions of dollars in direct aid from Arab countries as well from the United Nations and European Union, which until last November paid for the diesel fuel to run the Gaza power plant.



The French newspaper LeMonde last October quoted Bassem Khoury, minister of national economy for the Palestinian Authority, that Hamas has profited so much from the smuggling tunnel system and outside aid that it “doesn't know what to do with its money. Taxpayers in Europe should know that as a result of this system their money ends up in Hamas' pocket."

HaLevi pointed out that the tunnel system not only supplies Hamas with more weapons it but also “serves such criminal purposes as drug running and trafficking in young women.” The Kuwaiti newspaper Awan last December reported on the phenomenon of "importing" minor girls from Egypt and selling them into prostitution in Gaza, supposedly for purposes of marriage or domestic work.

He said Hamas exploits the smuggling tunnels for “sending fighters for training in Iran and Syria, and for the import of advanced weapons systems, [including] antiaircraft and anti-tank missiles), explosives, and ammunition."

HaLevi maintained, “The position of the human rights organizations, which paint an exaggerated picture of the effects of the siege, is marred by a double standard. On the one hand, they argue vehemently that Israel is still an occupying power and must therefore see to the "security and welfare of the residents of Gaza"; yet on the other hand, the welfare and security of Gaza's residents have been severely harmed by the Hamas regime, with its gradual imposition of Islamic law while violently suppressing the opposition.

“According to their logic, Israel is obligated to help an enemy entity that is attacking it. If this were true, the United States would have a duty to extend assistance to villages in Afghanistan controlled by the Taliban fighters who are attacking coalition forces.”

The flow of weapons into Gaza occasionally is stopped by Egyptian authorities who last May seized a large cache of weapons and explosives that were slated to be smuggled into Gaza from the Sinai. The weapons stockpile included 61 anti-aircraft missiles, 40 anti-tank mines, 15 standard mines, and 5 machine guns with ammunition. Last April 1, an Egyptian newspaper reported that security forces had seized 100 anti-aircraft missiles, 45 rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), and 40 explosive devices.


Source

What is shortage in Gaza is Rockets and Weapons. The Iran-Turkey evil axis played a drama to demonize Israel so that Rockets and weapons can be imported freely into Gaza to kill Israeli civilians.

So, before joining "let us all slam Israel" bandwagon, we have to check the facts which is true, which is false propaganda.

Meengla, I already gave the source for the pictures, click the link and check the dates.

prove those pictures are from Gaza

Living Conditions in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank

By
Wahida C.Valiante
BA (Psychology) BSW, MSW, OASW


Introduction

Although, Israel occupied the West Bank and the Gaza Strip from 1967 until the formation of Palestinian National Authority (PLA), it has left no positive legacy in terms of infra structural development, roads, housing, educational facilities, or in the socio-economic conditions of the population that I visited. Palestinians are living without adequate schools, hospitals, roads, sewers, clean running water, or proper health, housing and social services. Adding to this legacy of utter neglect are the deteriorating economic conditions, since 1993, caused by direct Israeli measures that restrict the movements of both people and goods through the Palestinian territories and the outside world. My own personal experience, as I went through the Erez checkpoint to enter Gaze, was enough to convince me of the immense difficulties, danger and frustrations faced by Palestinians who need to go to other parts of West Bank for medical services, work, visit relatives, or conduct business.

Furthermore, repeated arrests, torture, intimidation, humiliation, and on going demolition of Palestinian homes, in an accelerated pace since Mr. Barak’s election, has only adds more stress to the daily lives of the average Palestinian. This sustained stress continues to perpetuate an environment of emotional, psychological and physical insecurity, for families and particularly for children, who find it exceedingly difficult to cope with persistent fear, insecurity and intimidation. Such emotions and feelings deprive Palestinian children of psychologically and physically safe space in which to grow and develop their sense of self. However, I would like to add that in general the undermining tactics employed by Israeli authorities to disrupt the social fabric of Palestinian society and family, in great measures, have failed to diminish either the family closeness, or undermine the resilience and strong sense of self-identity of the Palestinian people. I met, stayed with and was hosted by very strong, warm and hospitable people.

Forty-four per cent of Palestinians are refugees who live in overcrowded centers that are without clean water, sewer, or sufficient living space. These refugees are still waiting and hoping that one day they might be able to go back to their homes; or may be enjoy the same economic and social conditions as their neighbors, the Israelis. Like their neighbors, they too want to dream and plan for the future of their children, build houses without fear of demolition, and reconstruct their society and economy without intimidation or fear. They also dream of the day when they will have freedom of movement without Israeli check points and security forces, when they will be able to attend schools and universities of their choice, and have access to medical services and jobs, and to visit their loved ones.

During my visit to women’s educational program in one of the largest refugee camps, I was told, “there is no peace and security for us.” One woman said,“ there is no guarantee that they will not take more of our land, if I build something on my land-small land- Israeli can take it away any time they want.” “I have been in this camp for 32 years- we still have new refugees joining the refugee camps because the Israeli are still demolishing our homes and taking our land.” Another woman pointed out that, “the financial support we receive from the UNRWA is not enough to feed, educate and house our children. And there are no jobs in Gaza and the West Bank, and the Israeli do not allow my husband to work inside Israel any more because he participated in the struggle (Intifada).” I was also told that as soon as one member of the family finds a job, their support payments are decreased accordingly, thus these refugee can never gain the upper hand in both economic and social conditions. “Some UNRWA support is means- tested and distributed only to particular needy households, the “special hardship cases.” (FAFO Report, 1993). I found no shortages of “special hardship cases” which were not receiving support from UNRWA, but only through the Muslim charities from all over the world. I heard the same story in Gaza refugee camps and other parts of the West Bank that I visited.

This report examines the living conditions of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, and will review recent studies on living conditions of Palestinians in the Old City of Jerusalem. Additional information was gathered by the author during personal informal interviews with refugee families, students, youth, municipal officials, teachers, doctors, directors of several NGOs (non-governmental agencies), social workers, psychologist, welfare workers, family counselor, and community leaders.

The purpose of this report is to review programs currently being supported by the Jerusalem Fund of Canada (which sponsored the author’s thirteen-day trip to the West Bank and Gaza Strip as part of a medical team) and to identify future areas for community development, education and training. Particular emphasis is on programs that would promote self-reliance for mature women; for girls who married very young and are now divorced (or widowed) with dependent children in their care; and for young male adults who dropped out of school during frequent closures and arrests.

Although Palestinian society is traditionally patriarchal in its philosophy on women’s status and roles, it is also very keenly aware of the need to implement Islamic world-view on gender equality, one that calls for the intellectual, mental, and physical development of both male and female children and adults. Several individuals identified the increase in the number of girls staying in schools and going on to university as one of the very positive outcome of the Intifada. According to one group of mothers that I met in Raffah who would like to see some loans become available for their daughters to start day-care centers and computer training schools: “One thing very good happened for women because of the Intifada (struggle). Now there are more girls (than boys) staying in schools and going on to universities… But the girls have no job opportunities, and we are sacrificing everything to send them for education. What good is education if they cannot find employment? And it will be hard for them now to get married, because of age and (higher) education.” They added that “most of the financial and charitable help is for orphans and poor families, but nothing goes toward women’s education and job-training.”

In conclusion this report will make recommendations in the area of economic and social self-development, based on needs already identified by several studies, and by professionals, ordinary citizens, youth both male and female, families and government officials that I met during my visit.

The living conditions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

What I found most alarming and disturbing was the general level of pessimism expressed by men, women and youth about the state of the economy and the future of peace process. A young school teacher summed it up well by pointing out at the end of our conversation, “the only thing peace process has done is to make our prisons bit bigger than before, but we are still in prisons. “And because of this peace process we find our-self in an suspended animation, we can not go forward and we can not go backward, so we just wait for what, while Israelis continue to demolish homes and expand illegal settlements.“

Same pessimism was apparent during my conversation with several students and professionals regarding the deteriorating state of the economy, high rate of unemployment and deteriorating social conditions. Following are some of the outcomes of several studies done on the living conditions of Palestinian in the West Bank and Gaza Strip since 1993 to highlight the role of Jerusalem Fund in helping the most vulnerable population such as children, women and the elderly.

“Since 1993, international donor assistance to the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has served to cushion the affect of declining living conditions.” “… Beginning with the 1987 intifada (or uprising) in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and intensified after 1993, the Palestinian economy has been subjected to repeated shocks. These shocks have mainly been linked to an increasingly strict regime of movement restriction applied to both persons and goods entering or leaving the West Bank and Gaza Strip. On many occasions, particularly since 1993, no movement has been allowed in or out of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, causing considerable loses to the Palestinian economy.” (FAFO, 1993 Report, Developing Palestinian Society)

The “Living conditions of Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have drastically deteriorated since the peace process. “ Preventing the majority of Palestinian employees from working inside Israel and allowing only 25% from the West Bank and 16% from Gaza Strip to work inside Israel under complex procedures causing an increase of unemployment and decrease of salaries which effects the general economy.” (Abu Kaff 1999)

“These closures and the broader system of movement restrictions are beginning to register a cumulative effect observable in a shift from a wage-based economy towards a rapid increase in marginal, low-productivity, and low-income generating informal-sector activity. Should this trend continue for another five to ten years, there will be a profound negative consequences for Palestinian society.” If not address soon, this combination of steadily declining living standards and rapid population growth will threaten to set back Palestinian social and economic development… the quality and coverage of education and health care at all levels will decline.” (FAFO, 1993)

And furthermore“… the Israeli monopoly on export and import is a serious threat to living conditions of Palestinians due to expensive taxes on imported Palestinian goods, and difficulties in exporting Palestinian goods… “By preventing the marketing of the Palestinian products inside the Israeli markets through expensive fines levied against the traders who market the Palestinian products inside Israeli markets… On the other hand the Palestinian lands are the main markets for the Israeli products.” (FAFO, 1993)

In addition ” The rate of increase in unemployment in the labor force, in the Palestinian land is 21%, and increase in single parent homes (led by a widow) is 53,670, and 43,627 children (under 18) are living with their mothers without fathers. Out of 53,670 single parents (female), only 20% of the women are employed and the rest of the 87.7% are outside the labor force.” (Abu Kaff 1999)

This projected decline in health care, educational facilities and social services is very evident throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Children do not have access to medical or dental check ups, even eye examination are ignored, and this has resulted in several cases of children going blind. If there were adequate medical services, these unfortunate incidents could have been prevented.

Living Conditions of the Palestinian in the Old City of Jerusalem

The living conditions of the Palestinian population in the Old City of Jerusalem are not different either. The heightened anxiety and tension due to daily demolition of Palestinian homes for new settlements, and the status of Jerusalem in future negotiations only makes life more difficult for the average Palestinian. A study by the Society of Austria-Arab Relations in1996 found that, “there is a policy of blatant discrimination in planning and development against Palestinian as well as in housing site capacity, Municipal planning schemes for Jewish settlements have been used to restrict the growth of Palestinian neighbourhoods. As a result of these policies, the housing crisis for Palestinian in East Jerusalem is now critical…”

“In addition to discriminatory practices in housing construction and land, Palestinians face economic pressure in the form of taxation, primary arnona: It is illegal “since the international law specifically prohibits the imposition of new tax by an occupying power. Taxes collected from Palestinian residents cover 26 percent of the costs of the city’s municipal services but Palestinian residents receive only 5 percent of those services. Additionally Palestinians are placed in higher taxes despite their relative inability to pay…”(Austria-Arab, 1996)

Furthermore “these various measures compounded by the isolation of Jerusalem from the West Bank (on which it’s economically dependent) since March 1993, together have resulted in a deep economic recession which has escalated the deterioration of living conditions for Palestinians and increased the unemployment rate.” We are waiting for fifty years, and we are still waiting to have our own land, on which we can built, without any Israeli secret police or army searching and confiscating our land and demolishing our houses, and establish our own economy and job.” (Austria-Arab, 1996)

Psycho-social Impact of Socio-economic Conditions on Children &Youth

According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, “in 1997 there were 1,873,300 people living in the West Bank and 1,022,000 in the Gaza Strip, of which 44% are refugees… “40 % of Palestinian in Gaza and 11% in the West Bank live below poverty line. The number of children under 19 is 1,546,000… 49% are female and 51% are males. The children constitute more than half the total population of 2,8955000. This does not include the Palestinian population of East Jerusalem, which was annexed in 1967.”

Included in these statistic are orphans many of whom lost their fathers during the up rising (Intifada), and many more who are emotionally, and psychologically scared because of what they have seen and experienced during the occupation. Children have been severely injured by the Israeli bullets while throwing stones and burning tires in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank. Others have droped out of school because of overcrowding and stressed out teachers who often resort to physical punishment as a method for teaching and maintaining discipline. And in many instances children also have lashed out at the teachers because of physical abuse. I spoke to a group of schoolchildren from a refugee camp about their interest in education and future prospects. The answers spoke volumes about their feelings: “ We have only one school and two shifts, one in the morning and one in the afternoon, with 40-50 students in each class. And we have no where to go and play, so we just run around the school; we talk in the class and the teachers get mad and physically beat us.” Some pointed out that, “we do not need education to work in Israel, and there are no jobs in the West Bank.”

A study conducted by a psychologist among 10-14,15-18, & 19-22 year olds in refugee camps throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip reflects their sense of reality. “All groups identified the political situation as the main risk factor to a healthy life. The younger group identified the impact of such political instability in personal terms such as father working in Israel… and when there is a closure, the father gets angry and the whole house is then effected by his anger.” “Deteriorating economic condition lead to stress and anger and the fear of their fathers not returning if anything happened at work. (Stress also occurs) because of fathers not being able to work due to Israeli checkpoint and barriers limiting travel. Most cannot even travel to West Bank even for a visit.”

“For older groups, the occupation symbolized the futility of hoping for a better future. Many cited the glory of intifada days, when youth had been and were eager to participate in the “struggle”. “However, many felt that the peace process did not bring about any positive changes, leaving many youth disenfranchised and cheated. Disenfranchised because they lost their primary roles in the political struggle, and cheated because they do not feel the peace process has brought, or will bring, the Occupation and its effects to an end.”

According to Society for Austro-Arab Relations, “Forty-four percent of both male and females aged 10 years old and older had dropped out of school prior to finishing the Tawjihi… It was clear that the family’s financial situation played a major role in a student’s decision to leave school, with most going to work and help support their families.”

One young psychologist pointed out to me “that we are producing consumers only, because so many of young male are dropping out of schools and are going to Israel to do menial jobs to buy goods and food for their families. One English teacher I spoke to echoed the same sentiment. “More high rate of school-drop out, boys more than girls, seeking low paying jobs in Israel without any future and benefits, early marriages-mostly girls because of poverty, lack of education and employment skills and due to parent pressure.”

“Forty-three percent of the ever-married women had married young below 16 years of age… This relatively high rate of early marriage is due largely to the economic and social constraints which encourage parents to lessen their burdens by marrying off their daughters (i.e., after she is married they won’t need to spend any money on her).” (Austro-Arab Relations 1996)

Furthermore the study found that the young people in discussion groups “suffered from low morale and depression over their future…. There are few jobs and usually the houses are crowded so they go out most of the time…. There is a problem of young people becoming bored, isolated, with nothing to do, and turning to delinquent behaviour (or sometimes being manipulated by the Israeli security services, the Shin Bet, into drug use or collaboration).”

“In addition there are many young people who were arrested or imprisoned or injured during the intifada (struggle) now facing unemployment and lack of opportunity or prospects for future… In many cases their education was disrupted, due to closure of schools and universities by the Israeli authorities.”

 

[Indiarox]

Compare Gaza situation with the situation in Sudan, you will the know the actual meaning of humanitarian crisis of immense proportion.

That is how the poor live .

I don't know why some posters will go out of their way to defend Israel
Israel is a close ally and all but we should criticize them when they mess up.
Blockading Gaza is is a deplorable act to sy the least

 

[Indiarox]

Compare Gaza situation with the situation in Sudan, you will the know the actual meaning of humanitarian crisis of immense proportion.

Sudan's problems are not due to blockading armies and navies

 

[Indiarox]

This is What India has done for Palestine

India pledges aid to UN for Palestinian refugees
PTI, Dec 4, 2003, 02.59pm IST

UNITED NATIONS: India is among 19 countries which have pledged to contribute a total of $72 million towards next year's budget for the UN agency helping Palestinian refugees but the agency says it needs much more because of deteriorating economic situation in the Palestinian territories.

At a meeting of the General Assembly's Ad Hoc Committee for Voluntary Contributions on Wednesday, the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugee in the Near East (UNRWA) said its overall budget for next year - $330 million - represented a 5 per cent fall in real terms, despite an increase in the number of refugees requiring its help.

UNRWA's Commissioner-General, Peter Hansen, told the meeting that its resources had not kept up with the increasing demands from refugees.

The agency provides education, health, micro-finance and social services to more than four million refugees spread across Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and the Palestinian territories of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

But senior UNRWA officials thanked the donor countries, saying their combined pledges of $72 million are a significant rise on last year's total of $47.5 million.

Besides India, the countries that pledged to help included Australia, Bahrain, China, Cyprus, Denmark, Indonesia, Ireland, South Korea, Kuwait, Luxembourg, Malaysia, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Tunisia and the United Arab Emirates. The Observer for the Holy See also made a pledge

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On July 26, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Information Nabil Sha’ath and Basem Abu Sumaya, President of the Palestinian Radio and Television Committee, visited Al Quds Open University in Ramallah to launch the university’s educational satellite channel. The project, under the auspices of university president Yunis Amer, will cater for 50,000 students in and out of the country.

Rafah Zoo reopened for business on July 29. The small zoo was destroyed in the Israeli invasion of Gaza’s southernmost city last year, and what animals survived were housed in people’s basements until the rebuilding was complete. The zoo, in the Brazil Camp, includes wolves, foxes, deer and some rare birds. Zoo owner Fathi Malik said he has as yet not received any compensation from the Israeli government. The zoo has been rebuilt with voluntary donations.

On August 2, Prime Minister Ahmed Qrei’ said India had earmarked $15 million for different projects in Palestine and abroad. The projects include a Palestinian Embassy in Delhi, a college in Ramallah, a cardiology health center in Nablus, a new Prime Ministry and a school in Abu Dis, a technology information college in Gaza, and a park and zoo in Jenin. -Published August 03, 2005©Pal

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India gifts embassy to Palestine, pledge $20 million aid

October 7th, 2008 - 9:02 pm ICT by IANS -


New Delhi, Oct 7 (IANS) In a gesture reaffirming unwavering commitment to the Palestinian cause, India Tuesday announced an assistance of $20 million to the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) and gifted it a new embassy that is being built in the heart of the capital’s diplomatic enclave.Prime Minister Manmohan Singh held talks with PNA President Mahmoud Abbas, who is on a four-day state visit to India, on a wide range of subjects, including the peace process in West Asia.

The two leaders laid the foundation stone of the chancery-cum-residence complex of the embassy of Palestine and formally dedicated the building “to the people of Palestine as a gift from the people of India”.

“I reiterated to President Abbas India’s consistent support to a negotiated solution to the Palestine issue,” Manmohan Singh said at a function organized at the ground of the the proposed chancery-cum-residence complex at Chanakyapuri area.

“India believes that the solution should be based on the relevant United Nations resolution, the Arab Peace Plan and the chartered roadmap resulting in a sovereign, independent, viable and united state of Palestine living in a secure border, side by side with Israel,” stressed Manmohan Singh.

He also announced a grant of $10 million as budgetary support to the PNA to help meet its immediate requirements and another $10 million dollars as assistance for development projects.

An agreement on the construction of a school in the name of India’s first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru in Abu Dees in Palestine was also signed between the two sides.

Thanking India for its consistent support to the Palestinian cause, Abbas said: “I would like to be very frank and say that India has given help and assistance to Palestine without asking for any favour in return.

“India is playing an important role in all fields (concerning Palestine), including the peace process… We appreciate India’s support,” Abbas said.

A Palestinian spokesman said: “The two leaders discussed a range of issues including chalking a roadmap for future cooperation and developmental works in Palestine.”

Abbas’ visit comes at a time when the West Asia peace process is under strain even as India is increasingly seen as a credible interlocutor by Palestine and Israel due to its excellent relations with both sides.

However, a cautious India, which was among the first countries to recognize the declaration of the state of Palestine in 1988, has refrained from getting directly involved so far.

With some political opponents accusing the Manmohan Singh government of betraying the Palestinian cause, New Delhi has designated Abbas’ trip as “state visit” to underline its special ties with the Palestinian people.

PNA Foreign Minister Riyad Al-Maliki and other senior officials are accompanying Abbas on this state visit to India.

Abbas also met President Pratibha Patil, Vice-President Hamid Ansari, United Progressive Alliance (UPA) chairperson Sonia Gandhi and Leader of Opposition L.K. Advani.

The visit is seen as a balancing exercise by New Delhi in view of its rapid expansion of diplomatic, military and trade ties with Tel Aviv since it recognized Israel in 1992. Israel is now the second largest arms supplier to India after Russia.

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India Stands Committed To Palestinian Cause
October 16, 2008 by TMO

By Nilofar Suhrawardy, MMNS


NEW DELHI: India has played its diplomatic card astutely by assuring Palestinians that the country stands by its commitment for independence of Palestine. This would not be affected by the strengthening of ties between India and Israel. Convinced by India’s assurance, the Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas concluded his four-day India visit on a positive note. “India’s relations with Israel are its sovereign decision. We are not going to interfere. We know very well that India is supportive of the Palestinian struggle for achieving its own independence,” Abbas replied when asked about New Delhi’s increasing engagement with Tel Aviv.
On his arrival here on Monday night, Abbas was received warmly by Minister of State for External Affairs E. Ahamed (October 6). He was accompanied by Foreign Minister Riyad Al-Malki, Advisor to the President and Official Spokesman Nabil Abu Rdeineh, Advisor to the President Ziad Abu ‘Amr and other officials. This was his second visit since Congress-led United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government assumed power. Abbas was last here in May 2005. The following morning, after being accorded the ceremonial reception and the guard of honor at Rashtrapati Bhawan, Abbas hailed the continuous improvement in Indo-Palestine ties. “You know how good relations we have, between India and Palestine since great Indira Gandhi and great Yasser Arafat. And everyday, it’s improving. We are very glad with the help and the support of the Indian people to the Palestine,” Abbas said.
The highlight of Abbas’ visit was marked by India gifting Palestine Embassy-cum-residential premises in the diplomatic enclave of Chanakyapuri. While laying foundation stone for the Embassy along with Abbas, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said: “India will continue to do all it can to assist Palestine in all its endeavours, including capacity building” (October 7).
Expressing appreciation, Abbas said: “India is giving us support without us asking it. Whenever I come here, I am surprised to see more and more announcements of aid.”
Singh and Abbas held wide-ranging talks, during which they discussed West Asia peace process, among other issues. “India believes that the solution should be based on the relevant United Nations resolution, the Arab Peace Plan and the chartered road map resulting in a sovereign, independent, viable and united state of Palestine living in a secure border, side by side with Israel,” Singh said. Abbas described the talks as “very fruitful and productive,” with Singh having affirmed India’s “consistent support to negotiated settlement to the Palestinian issue.”
Singh and Abbas also discussed ways to enhance bilateral cooperation. Singh announced $20 million aid for Palestine. “I have great pleasure in announcing a grant of 10 million dollars as budgetary support to the Palestinians National Authority to help meet its immediate requirements and a further 10 million dollars as assistance for development projects,” he said.
During their meeting, the two sides signed an agreement under which India will build a school, named after India’s first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, in Abu Dees in Palestine.
Expressing regret on violence in occupied territories earlier this year, including Gaza, Singh said: “We were shocked and dismayed. We hope wiser counsel will prevail and path of dialogue will remain the preferred path to realize peace in the region.” Describing New Delhi’s commitment to Palestine cause as “rooted in history,” Singh said: “India and Palestine have been steadfast in their relations and it is only fitting to have Embassy of Palestinian National Authority here.” The Mission would “serve as a symbol of our friendship and solidarity,” Singh said.
Abbas expressed hope to achieve independence so that Indian Embassy could be built in Jerusalem. “We would like to see you (Singh) in Palestine as soon as possible,” Abbas said.
Ahead of his talks with Singh, Abbas expressed that Palestine expects India to play a crucial role in the Middle East peace process. “India maintains special relations with all the countries in our region, including the state of Israel, and can do a lot to push forward the peace process,” Abbas said.
A joint statement issued on October 9 stated that Abbas’ visit “marked another important landmark in long history of close and fraternal interactions between India and Palestine.” During his visit, bilateral discussions held “reflected the traditionally close and cordial ties between India and Palestine and the solidarity that government and people of India have always shown for Palestine,” the statement said.
India reiterated its well-known support for Palestinian cause, “calling for a negotiated solution resulting in a sovereign, independent, viable and united State of Palestine living within secure and recognized borders, side by side at peace with Israel as endorsed in the Quartet Roadmap and United Nations Security Council Resolutions 1397 and 1515. India also reiterated its support for the Arab Peace Plan,” the statement said. Besides, India “called for an end to expansion of Israeli settlements in occupied Palestine and for an early and significant easing of restrictions on free movement of persons and goods within Palestine.”
India “renewed its commitment to economic development of Palestine.” Both sides will work together to develop an information technology in Palestine and also explore ways of cooperating in water resources sector, the statement said. On the invitations Abbas extended to Indian President and Prime Minister to visit Palestine, the statement said: “The invitations were accepted with pleasure and dates would be settled through diplomatic channels in due course.”
Before concluding his India visit, when asked about possible impact of change of leadership in Israel, Abbas replied: “Until this moment we have been negotiating with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. During his negotiations, she (prime minister-designate Tzipi Livni) attended all the meetings and she is really acquainted with the negotiation process.” Refraining from comparing the two leaders, who belong to the same party, Abbas said: “The moment Livni forms her own government, we will start negotiating with her.”
“According to basic law and election law, it states very clearly that presidential and legislative elections should carry on at the same time. So that is why we are waiting for the Arab proposal in order to initiate such elections. The sooner the Arab proposal is ready, the sooner we will have elections,” Abbas said in response to a question on Hamas’ refusal to accept his Presidency after January.
On whom did PA see as biggest problem in West Asia, United States or Israel, Abbas said: “No one negates the fact that they are allies and that is why their policies are the same and their influences are also the same.”
During his visit, President Pratibha Patil hosted a banquet in his honor. Among leaders who called on Abbas were Vice President Hamid Ansari, United Progressive Alliance (UPA) chief Sonia Gandhi, Leader of Opposition L.K. Advani and others.

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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas Friday met Minister of State for External Affairs Shashi Tharoor who reassured the visiting leader of New Delhi’s support for peace and development in the Middle East.

“(I had an) excellent meeting with President Abbas and (Foreign Minister Riyad al) Maliki of Palestine,” Tharoor wrote on micro-blogging site Twitter, shortly after the meeting.

Tharoor said he had a “thorough discussion” on the political situation and peace process in the Middle East. He also assured Abbas and Maliki of “Indian help for Palestine”, the minister added.

Abbas arrived in New Delhi Thursday on a two-day unannounced visit to India. The trip comes even as he came under a cloud after a leading Israeli television channel broadcast a tape showing Abbas’ aide allegedly trying to receive sexual favours from a Palestinian woman.

The meeting with Tharoor comes a day after Abbas met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who announced $10 million aid for Palestine.

Manmohan Singh in his meeting with Abbas reiterated India’s commitment to the Palestinian cause in line with United Nations Security Council calling for a sovereign, independent, viable and united state of Palestine.

“The prime minister announced a grant of $10 million as budget support to the Palestinian National Authority and reassured Abbas of India’s support for economic and social development,” an official said.

Manmohan Singh hosted a dinner for Abbas and his delegation. The two leaders held discussions on the fresh efforts at initiating a peace process in the volatile Middle East region.

“They also discussed the Russian proposal for a meeting of the European Union, Russia, the United Nations and the US (the Quartet working for peace in the Middle East),” the official said.

The visit of the Palestinian president comes about a fortnight ahead of Manmohan Singh’s visit to Saudi Arabia.

India has been supporting a peaceful resolution of the Middle East conflict. In 1974 it recognised the Palestine Liberation Organisation as the sole representative of the Palestinian people. India in 1988 became the first non-Arab country to recognise the state of Palestine.



New Delhi, Feb 12 (ANI): Minister of State for External Affairs Shashi Tharoor *on Friday said that India is keen to witness the restoration of peace between Palestine and Israel.

After his meeting with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Tharoor said, “India has been a very strong supporter of two-state solution. We have been behind the United Nations General Assembly and Security Council resolutions on Palestine. We would like to see Palestine and Israel living side by side behind secure borders in prosperity and peace. Where we can be helpful is certainly something we continue discussing with our friends.”

“We have had a good conversation about that. At the appropriate time, we can certainly take the right steps. At this point, we are very happy to be in a careful listening mode, and we are certainly very pleased with the quality and substance of dialogue we had with the President (Mahmoud Abbas),” added Tharoor.

India has pledged support for Palestine in its struggle for self-determination and resolution of tensions in the region through dialogues.

Palestine Foreign Minister Riyad al-Malki said, “The idea is really to brief the leadership (of India) about the political situation and also to listen from them their advice, and based on talks we will determine our ways forward.”

“At the same time, of course, we are really focused on our bilateral relations. Our bilateral relations are excellent but still, you know, we are keen to even deepen further such relations, and we have discussed many potential areas of cooperation in the future, he added. (ANI)

 

[forcetrip]

I do hate to admit it but monetarily India has done more for Palestine. We have always supported their cause with our words and thoughts and feelings, and the occational saturday afternoon marches with a little ozone damage over our own country due to the tyre smoke. We also tried to kill their airforce a long time ago. I think it weakened them a little.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

thats a nice way of defending not onlt LeT and JuD but also Hamas and Hizbollah,between the bla and ttp also deserve the same

I didn't defend any particular group - I just pointed out that proxies are not terrorists. To be clearer I should have said that proxies are not necessarily terrorists, since only deliberate attacks on civilians, celebrated and called for by entities as a matter of policy, should be considered terrorism - under that category the BLA, TTP and any groups that celebrated and used attacks on civilians as a matter of policy are 'terrorist groups'.

then by ur criteria neither did israel nor jews need to called as terrorist
as that is only an attitude among the muslim masses

Israel follow policies of deliberate repression, occupation and theft of land against the Palestinians - based on that I'd say the State of Israel does qualify as a 'terrorist entity'. One cannot however generalize about 'Jews' as a community, since they do not hold a homogeneous viewpoint on Israeli policies.

regarding how some pakistanis say on this forum,it generally provide a picture of menality,how much they enjoy the butchering happening from mumbai to delhi

That may be your opinion, but aside from fringe elements I have not see such views expressed on this forum.

i still remember a pakistani member here openly advocating bombing and attacks in and around every indian city using their terrorist(sorry proxies) only to make india remember with whom they r messing

You should have reported his posts, and still can.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

On a thread which stated the official position of the government of India(i.e. the Indian State), you chose to join a fellow member in making it about Indians in general.

Actually I just supported his argument that the rather bigoted and hateful opinions expressed by tens of thousands of Indians over the years on mainstream Indian news sites, blogs, forums and mainstream Western news sites blogs and forums, do lead to rather negative conclusions about Indian attitudes and opinions, in the absence of any other data. My comments were deliberately focused on a narrow issue, since I did not want to get into a 'do most Indians condemn or support XYZ'.

Hobbes replied in the same vein.

^^ look! I dont want to bring anything off topic, but there was hardly a voice from Pakistan when the Chinese had Muslim Uighur Issue. India atleast has the guts to open her mouth about this, inspite of military co-operation with Israel. I wonder if i have to expand more on this.

He was not talking about the Pakistani state, just the same as you. He was asking why Pakistanis(not the state of Pakistan) did not concern themselves about the Uighurs?

No he did not, because if you read his post carefully, he is referring to Pakistan and India from the perspective of States, and not referring to people, and on the issue of States I have already made my views clear in my exchange with Desiman.

Your reply was this.

What are the UNSC resolutions on Uighur Statehood or Status, as in the case of Palestine and J&K?

Domestic issues and inter-ethnic/communal tensions are internal issues wouldn't you say?

Hence my reply.

Where & when did this become an issue of positions taken by states? You cannot be selective in your interpretations, choosing to refer to "ordinary people" when it suits your argument and making reference to "states" when that better suits you.

Exactly, my reply was in the context of States since that was obvious from Hobbes post - people don't have 'military relations', States do, and the reference to 'opening her mouth' was clearly a reference to India's official Statement condemning the flotilla attack.

Hence 'your reply' was in the wrong context, and my previous points, which you have not addressed by trying to digress into 'State vs Civilians' bickering, stand.