India Should Supply Arms To Pakistan To Help Defend Its Borders Against U.S. Attacks

[courageneverdies]

A huge thread it is, and one will need a lot of time to understand it.

Feeling sleepy now check it tomorrow,

KIT

 

[Vinod2070]

Kal ho na ho.

 

[metalfalcon]

After reading the topic i must say who ever even thinks about it is totally

Destabilizing Pakistan is India's Primary Objective and Why India will help Pakistan when India is already Involved in a Proxy war against Pakistan From Afghanistan.

Pakistan does not NEED INDIAN WEAPONS TO DEFEND ITSELF FROM USA WHAT WE NEED IS A GOOD LEADER THATS IT.

Pakistani military Reacted very effectively to American aggression and PAF sacred the hell out of the American UAV who came to Pakistan (with the intention to attack innocent Pakistanis) and also Pakistani military fired warning shots on intruding American choppers and forced them to remain in Afghanistan But Our Corrupt Leaders are not giving the right orders to Pakistan armed forces and on the contrary they ordered the military " NOT TO ENGAGE THE AMERICANS"

Pakistan has the power ability and the Resources to Engage USA Properly but we lack a strong Leadership.

But no way Pakistan need Indian help to Counter USA and its your Point of View to help Pakistan and I must Thank you for that and your Sentiments for Pakistan are respected by me BUT Indian Govt will Never Stand with Pakistan agaisnt USA as India is now Engaged in Nuclear trade with the USA

 

[IceCold]

Woww pretty weird stuff going on lately. Lol. On a serious note, India has started to shift into the US nexus and it will continue to do so with time to come, Pakistan on the other hand is moving away and will only continue to move away as time passes. Maybe is few years of time, we may witness a US direct attack. For that we do need to prepare ourselves. At present we have both the ability and resources to engage the US but we seriously lack leadership.

 

[daredevil]

Woww pretty weird stuff going on lately. Lol. On a serious note, India has started to shift into the US nexus and it will continue to do so with time to come, Pakistan on the other hand is moving away and will only continue to move away as time passes. Maybe is few years of time, we may witness a US direct attack. For that we do need to prepare ourselves. At present we have both the ability and resources to engage the US but we seriously lack leadership.

Where are you going to get the resources to face US (even in future). Remember, pakistan is on the brink of bankruptcy.

And your leaders are busy with going around the world, scouting for money.

 

[Imran Khan]

i think you post much more and its now my time wait and see


pakistan militry industry
Pakistani Arms Industry the Ministry of Defence Production was created in September 1991 to promote and coordinate the patchwork of military production facilities that have developed since independence. The ministry also includes seven other specialized organizations devoted to research and development, production, and administration.[1] [2] The navy is supported mainly by a facility at the Karachi Shipyard, which has limited production capacity. In 1987 development of a submarine repair and rebuild facility at Port Qasim was begun. By early 2000, in a joint project with China led to the development of the JF-17 Thunder fighter and the Al-Khalid Tank. Pakistan also has taken major steps to becoming self sufficient in aircraft overhaul and modernization and tank and helicopter sales and in a transfer of technology with France led to the construction of the Agosta B-90 Submarine in the late 1990s and early 2000s and is currently actively participating in many joint production projects such as Al Khalid 2, advance trainer aircraft, combat aircraft, navy ships and submarines.

After the success of its major developments in the defence industry the Defence Export Promotion Organisation (D.E.P.O.) was created to promote Pakistani defence equipment to the world by inviting major and small players to the I.D.E.A.S. Exhibition, which is held annually at the Karachi expo center. In recent reports, the defence exports were worth over $500 million USD in 2006 and growing annually.

Small Arms

Heckler & Koch MP5 9 mm carbines and the Carbine 1A 9 mm sub-machine guns
Machine Gun MG-3
SMG PK, Type 1 & 2 9 essentially an MP5K variant
Automatic Rifle G-3, Types A3 & P4
Anti Aircraft Machine Gun 12.7 mm, Type 54

Main Battle Tanks
MBT 2000 Al-Khalid: - new generation tank being inducted into the Pakistan Army.
Al-Zarar: - A substantial upgrade of the T-59 tank, bringing them more on par with the T-72.
Al Khalid II Main Battle Tank: - Reportedly under development, it will replace Al Zarrar and T-59 tanks from 2012.

Armored Personnel Carriers(APC)
Pakistani APCs are upgraded and redesigned versions of M113 and are currently being manufactured at Heavy Industries Taxila(HIT).

Al-Talha - Five roadwheel armored personnel carrier. Pakistan currently operates 400 of these machines and expects to operate 2000 Al-Talha's by 2010
Al-Hadeed - Armored Repair and Recovery version of Al-Talha.
Al-Hamza - Armored Infantry Fighting Vehicle version of Al-Talha.
Al-Maaz - Variant fitted with the Baktar Shikan anti-tank missile.
Al-Qaswa - Armored Logistics Vehicle version of Al-Talha.
Al-Saad - Armored six roadwheel personnel carrier version of Al-Talha.
Al-Sakb - Armored logistics support and command post carrier version of Al-Talha. It is fitted with an Integrated Battlefield Management System.
[3]

Multiple Rocket System

T-83 Azar 122 mm

Anti Tank Guided Weapons
Baktar-Shikan Anti-tank Guided Missile (ATGM)

Army Air DefenceAnza MK I Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM)
Anza MK II Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM)
Anza MK III Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM)
SD 10 Beyond Visual Range (BVR) Air-to-Air Missile (AAM) / (BVRAAM)


Missiles

Hatf-I/IA/IB BRBM
Abdali-I SRBM
Ghaznavi-I SRBM
Shaheen-I MRBM
Ghauri-I MRBM
Ghauri-II IRBM
Shaheen-II IRBM
Babur Cruise Missile
Ra'ad Cruise Missile
Ghauri-III IRBM
Shaheen-III IRBM
Tippu missile ICBM

Aircraft

K-8 Karakorum
JF-17 Thunder
Shahbaz
MFI-395 Super Mushaq
MFI-17 Mushaq

Submarines

Agosta 90B class submarine
Cosmos class MG110 Mini-Sub

Patrol Craft

Jalalat II Missile Boat
Larkana Large Patrol Craft

 

[Vinod2070]

Woww pretty weird stuff going on lately. Lol. On a serious note, India has started to shift into the US nexus and it will continue to do so with time to come, Pakistan on the other hand is moving away and will only continue to move away as time passes. Maybe is few years of time, we may witness a US direct attack. For that we do need to prepare ourselves. At present we have both the ability and resources to engage the US but we seriously lack leadership.

Well that is a tall statement. No country (except may be Russia to some extent) can claim that. USA spends 4 times the GDP of Pakistan on defense every year. Just because they have problems with Guerrilla warfare (and that too because they are not flattening out whole countries and want to avoid civilian casualties) doesn't mean that they can't fight conventional warfare.

Just look at what happened in the Iraq war. Even if you claim that Pakistan is more powerful than Iraq, the outcome would be the same. The USA can destroy the complete infrastructure of any country in a matter of days. Any country without exceptions and they will hardly break a sweat.

You feel Iraq had leadership in the form of Saddam? He had the guts but what happened?

Well I feel you are seriously wrong when you talk of "resources". If you want to talk of the national will thats a different matter and you need to be honest with yourself if that is really there.

 

[Imran Khan]

'Pakistan moves swiftly to self-reliance in defence needs'


Pakistan Times Monitoring Report

TAXILA: After having successfully developed state-of-the-art MBT Al-Khalid, the prestigious HIT (Heavy Industries Taxila) is all set to take a major leap towards complete self-reliance in defence as the Institute is at the final stages of establishing AARDIC (Advanced Armoured Research, Development and Integration Complex).

The AARDIC will comprise 30 labs which will be developing advanced armoured, various weapon systems, through reverse engineering besides manufacturing strategic weapon systems for country’s armoured fleets. HIT will also be producing Al-Khalid 1by year 2007 which will be far more advanced than the current Al-Khalid which is being graded by independent defence experts as one of the best MBT in the world.

Bird's eye view

Pakistan's noted journalist Aroosa Alam writes; a day long privileged visit to POF and HIT gave a bird's eye view of the two organisations which have earned millions of foreign exchange through defence exports.

HIT has just fetched a US $ 32 million contract for the sale of various types of APCs and other armoured vehicles to a friendly country and is eyeing for more markets to be captured for these machines in months to come. All together the HIT alone has the saving of 331.13 million US$ during last three years. The money is now spent on the establishment of AARDIC and R&D purposes.

Senior officials at HIT are confident that AARDIC will help engineers and technicians to develop more advanced and strategic weapons and technologies for Al-Khalid and other armoured vehicles which will put Pakistan in the row of countries having highly advanced defence industry.

The officials say that under the prevalent geo-strategic situation Pakistan needs to have a complete self-reliance in defence. There should not be any compromise on national defence which is vitally linked with the economic security of the country.

These officials rightly take great pride in the fact that HIT has developed state-of-the-art Al-Khalid indigenously. “No known anti-tank system can defeat Al-Khalid tank till date”.

Ability of Al-Khalid
The tank has the ability to survive nuclear, chemical and biological warfare. According to them no comparison can be drawn between Indian Arjun and Pakistani Al-Khalid MBT. “Al-Khalid has been a success story.60 tonne, Arjun tank has devoured 250 million US $ for its development over last two decades and so far only 24 tanks have been produced”, said an official.

Pakistan army is already has in its inventory 90 Al-Khalids fully operational. The HIT is rolling out 50 Al-Khalids every year and by next year with additional allocations the production will be doubled.

At the moment the HIT is over booked with Pakistan Army’s demand who has placed order for 300 Al-Khalids. Two high level Saudi defence delegations have conducted extensive test and trials of the tank during past few months.

Saudi Arabia, the First customer

The tank will now be dispatched to Saudi Arabia for further trials and Riyadh may become the first customer of Al-Khalid followed by many other Muslim countries who have shown keen interest in this tank.

The Cost

Although senior officials refrain from quoting the exact cost of the tank they do indicate that any tank having capabilities same as Al-Khalid will have a price tag of $17 million per piece. “

I can tell you that you can produce many Al-Khalids in same price but commercial price for this tank will be fixed according to export orders”, they said. In a similar camparis on, officials said that while any Western tank would cost US 8 million dollars per piece, the recently acquired Ukrainian T-80UD have cost 1.5 million per unit to Pakistan Army. “We needed these tanks to defeat Indian T-72”.

Agility and Mobility

Twenty minutes thrilling ride on Al-Khalid by journalist Aroosa Alam explained the agility and mobility of the tank which thundered through artificially created difficult terrains at the speed of 32 km, demonstrating trench and obstacle crossing with 60% side slop.

Tank also exhibited astonishing bump stop with hydraulic breaks but the gun did not loose the stability. Powered by 1200HP diesel engine, Al-Khalid equally impressed my other course mates who could not have imagined even in their wildest dream that Pakistan can develop such a foolproof mechanised defence system.

The visit of three factories of HIT made everyone proud of our men of excellence who were seen working on these projects with dedication and national commitment.

Al-Khalid’s main gun is 125mm smooth bore with autoloader. The unique feature of Al-Khalid is that it is equipped with auto tracker system. It also has hunter killer capability which can track and engage more than one targets while on the move. The tank can operate fully even during night with thermal imagery systems. Tank’s maximum speed is upto 70km per hour.

Al-Zarrar
Besides Al-Khalid HIT is also rebuilding T-8511AP, T-69HMP, Al-Zarrar and T59MII. Tank Al-Zarrar is yet another success story for HIT. A number of prototype were developed on sound R&D basis for comparative evaluation and trials for the viability of upgradation of Al-Zarrar and finally Pakistan Army decided to induct 50 Al-Zarrars whose second batch was recently handed over by HIT.

40 tons Al-Zarrar has 125mm smooth bore gun with compatible Gun Control System and Semi Auto-loader, Image Stabilised Fire Control Systems, Thermal Imagining, Sight for day and night combat, 730HP engine, Compatible Transmission and Suspension System, and Explosive Reactive Armour.

HIT is very proud to produce FCS (Day Night Fire Control System) which is used to sight and track a static or moving targets during day and night. The system was introduced in Pakistan Army in 1990 and is now being indigenously produced. The system is available with training to countries having T-54/55/59/69 series of tanks.

Mohafiz Security Vehicle
Mohafiz Security Vehicle is another proud product of HIT which has welded Alumiuium Armour hull with ricochet angles all round. The hull is protected against 7.62mm bullet point blank range. The vehicle has bullet proof wind screen and run flat tyres. It can accommodate 8 persons with 10 firing ports.

APC Talha has been designed and manufactured by HIT with Ukrainian engines. It is all terrain, amphibious infantry support vehicle with 12.7mm machine gun as its main armament. Survivability has been enhanced through use of external fuel tanks. Various forms of armour can be added for protection of the vehicle. HIT is also manufacturing Logistic Vehicle Al-Qaswa, and Sakb Command Post Carrier.

APC M113A2MK/1belongs to the family of most widely used combat vehicles in the world today. HIT is producing a variety of APC’s through constant upgradation and rebuild. In its pursuit to achieve high level of excellence, HIT is heavily relying on the valuable contribution of, DESCOM (Development, Engineering Support and Component Manufacturer) and ETRO (Evaluation Training and Research Organisation). HIT has a work force of about 6000 dedicated engineers and highly skilled persons which include 30% uniformed personnel.

But HIT success story does not end here, the top bosses of the Complex in the short time of 11 months have raised from ashes a full fledge Hi-Tech city with University Campus, colleges, and schools. The Hi-Tech Campus spread over many acres is located very close to HIT where students can have education from nursery to the university levels.

Every school, college and university will have its own state-of-the-art labs, gyms, swimming pools and playgrounds. There will also be one Madrassa which will be virtually connected with Saudi Arabia and students will get religious education from Saudi schools or universities. In the middle of this huge complex, a great mosque is being built through donations.●

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex gets several enquiries
By Kokila Jacob, Staff Reporter
Published: November 24, 2005, 00:00

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex has attracted serious enquiries about its low cost trainer military aircraft and training facilities, said officials at its stand in the air show.



Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, chief of the air staff, Pakistan Air Force, visited the show, meeting with current regional clients and said the show was an important venue to reinforce their customer base.

PAC's regional deals, both in terms of trainer aircraft sold and training contracts, in the past year has topped $40 million, said Aurangzeb Khan, its chairman.

On display at the show are two aircraft built in Pakistan the Super Mushak light primary trainer and the Karakoram 8 (K8) jet trainer. Both also perform aerobatic displays daily at the show.

Among the main clients for this primary trainer is the Royal Saudi Air Force Academy which has 20 of them. Two of which are set to delivered this year, said Khan.

The Royal Omani Airforce has eight of them. "The region is a big market for us and we are in negotiation with five countries and are meeting with clients at the air show. We are confident it will lead to firm deals in the months ahead," said Khan.

The K8, which Pakistan is manufacturing in collaboration with China, has an existing client base in eight countries in the Middle East as well as in the South East Asia region and also some African countries including Zimbabwe

 

[Imran Khan]

KamraAir Weapon Complex (AWC)
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)
The Wah Cantonment Ordnance Complex consists of three nearby armament facilities in Wah (Pakistan Ordnance Factories - POF), Kamra (Air Weapon Complex - AWC), and Taxilia (Heavy Industries Taxila -HIT). One or more of these facilities is probably associated with the weaponization of Pakistan's nuclear devices. According to some reports, the main storage and maintenance site of the Pakistani nuclear weapons, particularly the weapons at a 'screwdriver level', is located at the 'ordnance complex' in Wah. The Taxilia facility is devoted to land combat systems, and is an unlikely candidate for nuclear weapons development work. The Air Weapon Complex at Kamra is devoted to air-to-surface munitions, among other activities, and would probably have at least some connection with the development of air-delivered nuclear weapons.

Air Weapon Complex

The Air Weapon Complex, located in Wah/Kamra, is involved in developing and manufacturing different kinds of air and ground weapons. AWC is one of the leading organisations in Pakistan in the field of Air Delivered Weapons/Systems. The Air Weapons Complex manufactures a variety of air delivered weapons, including extended range bombs, Target penetration bombs and Infra-Red Search and Track Systems. The AWC product range includes: HAFR-1: Anti Runway Weapon; IRST: Infra Red Search and Track System; 250 kg Pre-fragmented Bomb; 250 kg MK-82 Steel Bomb; 500 kg MK-83 Steel Bomb; 1000 kg MK-84 Steel Bomb; Air Burst Electronic Fuses (Impact and Detonating); Low/High Drag Tail Units; 25 lbs and 6 kg Practice Bombs; GPS: Global Positioning System; and the Mushbak Trainer Aircraft. Technical expertise also includes: Electronic system design and production, Mechanical components precision manufacturing, Prototyping and production of specialised mechanical assemblies, TQM practices, Mil-Spec Qualifications, CAD/CAM support.

The Air Weapons Complex embarked on a project for the indigenous development of UAV's in the middle of 1998. The Sky Tracker and Sky Navigator suite of software were developed for the ground-based tracking of remotely piloted vehicles (RPV's) / unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV's). The software gets the UAV's GPS positional data from a radio data link. This data is used to show the position of the UAV as a 2D plot along with essential UAV data like, speed, altitude, heading etc. This plot can be overlaid onto area maps also. This information is used by the pilot for flying the UAV beyond visual range.

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) encompasses four Factories: F-6 Rebuild Factory, Mirage Rebuild Factory, Aircraft Manufacturing Factory and Kamra Avionics and Radar Factory. All the factories of PAC Kamra are ISO-9002 certified including the factories manufacturing drones, Griffo M-7 Radar, and electronic equipment.

The F-6 Rebuild Factory started in 1972 with overhaul of Chinese F-6 aircraft. The factory has come a long way and, in addition to F-6 aircraft, is overhauling FT-5 A-5 and F-7 aircraft. The factory is now fully supporting PAF in overhauling all Chinese origin aircraft.

In 1974 the Mirage Rebuild Factory (MRF) emerged to undertake the overhaul of Mirage III & V fighter aircraft and its engine. The factory facilities are modern and technically advanced and have thus proved extremely useful in supporting Mirage fleet of the PAF. Due to its versatility and elaborate facilities the factory was later easily able to undertake overhaul of F-100 engine powering F-16 aircraft. It is highlighted that MRF has not only overhauled PAF aircraft but has also overhauled Mirages of the United Arab Emirates. MRF has the distinction of being the first defence establishment to achieve ISO-9002 certified. The Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) was established in 1975 with the primary role of assembling Mushshak (MFI-17) aircraft from knockdown kits received from abroad. However in 1981, AMF also started manufacturing many parts of Mushshak aircraft. The Factory bought the sole worldwide manufacturing rights from Sweden and went on to build 185 aircraft for Pakistan Defence Services and for export to Iran. Oman and Syria. AMF also developed Super Mushshak, a variant of existing Mushshak, that has more powerful engine, new instruments and facility of cockpit air-conditioning. The Factory is trying to sell the Super Mushshak to potential customers abroad, while continuing its support to the existing MF1-17 fleet worldwide. Later in 1993, AMF began co-production of K-8 jet trainer in collaboration with China. The aircraft development and production is a major achievement in the field of aviation. AMF is also manufacturing drones for aerial target practicing. The Center of excellence at AMF, equipped with latest CAD/CAM and Silicon Graphics facilities, is poised to design and manufacture complicated aircraft parts.

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) was almost certainly responsible for the modification of Pakistani aircraft, proabably including F-16 fighters, to a configuration capable of delivering air-dropped nuclear weapons.

Photographic Evaluation Report
High resolution imagery is available from two sources, including declassified CORONA imagery. As of 04 June 2000 Russian 2-meter resolution KVR-1000 imagery coverage was not available via the SPIN-2 service on TerraServer. As of 04 June 2000 archival Space Imaging IKONOS 1-meter imagery available on the CARTERRA™ Archive included two cloud-free scenes acquired on 12 March 2000. The location of these scenes is almost certainly consistent with the Wah/Kamra/Taxila area of interest, although the metadata appears corrupt, and thus the orientation of the browse images is uncertain. Consequently, it is not possible to correlate the three entities in this area with the several large complexes that are evident in the images.

 

[z9-ec]

The thread title is just hilarous. I can't stop laughing.. Hilarious... my god..

 

[Imran Khan]

The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra comprises of four factories which are spread over an area of 10 square kilometers. PAC has become a center of excellence in aviation engineering based on more than 30 years of experience in Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul (MRO) of fighter aircraft, their components and engines.

In the year 1972, PAC started with the MRO of aircraft of Chinese origin and subsequently progressed towards MRO of Mirage III & V aircraft and ATAR 09C engines, F100-220E engines modules of F-16 aircraft, J-69 engines of T-37 aircraft, T-56 engines of C-130 aircraft and avionics upgrades of fighters aircrafts of Pakistan Air Force.

The Technology advancement of manufacturing of Mushak and Super Mushak primary fighter trainer aircraft to JF-17 Thunder Fighter aircraft endorses the strength and expertise of PAC to meet future defense challenges. PAC holds the International Aerospace Standard AS 9100 Rev B, Boeing Quality Management System and ISO 9001:2000 and ISO 17025 certifications. Feel free to contact us for any information at pacit@pac.org.pk.

 

[Imran Khan]

EXPORTPRODUCTS AND SERVICES OF PAKISTAN


A/C structure and Engine Components

Alloy & Special Steels

Ammunition and Fuzes

Antennas, Masts and Towers

Armoured Fighting Vehicles and Upgrades

Artillery and Mortars

Bearings, Seals and Couplings

Hunting and sporting arms

Investment Casting

IT, Computing and Software

Logistics, Transportation, Supply and Spares

Manufacturing, Engineering and Test Equipment

Materials Handling and Packaging

Meteorological Sensors and Equipment

Military and Civil Infrastructure and Construction

Military and Special Purpose Vehicles

Missiles, Rockets and Components

Navigation and Satellite Communications

NBC Equipment

Optronics, Surveillance and Sighting Systems

Personal Protection, Medical and Survival Equipment

Propulsion, Transmission and Components

Recruitment and Personnel

Rotary

Ship Building and Foundries

Space science and technology

Telecommunication

 

[IceCold]

Well that is a tall statement. No country (except may be Russia to some extent) can claim that. USA spends 4 times the GDP of Pakistan on defense every year. Just because they have problems with Guerrilla warfare (and that too because they are not flattening out whole countries and want to avoid civilian casualties) doesn't mean that they can't fight conventional warfare.

Just look at what happened in the Iraq war. Even if you claim that Pakistan is more powerful than Iraq, the outcome would be the same. The USA can destroy the complete infrastructure of any country in a matter of days. Any country without exceptions and they will hardly break a sweat.

You feel Iraq had leadership in the form of Saddam? He had the guts but what happened?

Well I feel you are seriously wrong when you talk of "resources". If you want to talk of the national will thats a different matter and you need to be honest with yourself if that is really there.

Without getting into a never ending debate, i think Imran sums up pretty much what i would say. So skipping the usual part and lets us wait and see how things turn out to be.

 

[QADRI]

i think Pakistan is one of the self reliance country...and don't need help from traditional enemies..........lolz