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India should consider sub-conventional warfare against Pakistan

So when do you think next war is possible?


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pakistan doesnt have MARVs and even if we believe Ababeel carries Mirvs how many is the question as tactical nukes on IRBMs is silly, and weight limitations of carrying multiple city busters 300-600kt nukes is not possible even on a smaller payload of Irbm, even if we assume pakistan has reached USa or french tech. the max ababeel like Irbm can carry is max 2-3, which itself makes missile useless as it cant carry any dummy warheads and 2-3 is easily targettable from ABMs, the most important thing is pakistan has short breadth any ballistic missle trajectory in boost phase is easily targetted and locked by stronger radar systems like swordfish or s-400s. Ballistic missiles are east prey in boost phase which India can target.
India has multiple options to take out pakistani nukes taking out in boost phase, exp atmosphere and edo armosphere.
And formost disproportionately strong response with in minutes to take out nuke sites by much stronger nuke yields.
pakistan is in immense disadvantage in conventional or nuclear scenarios against much powerful and advance India.
And how nukes of your r of stronger yiled hbombs of which u only tested primary and your own scientist of that times came on record fizzled aka failed
My child dummy warhead don't have to be as big and baby as real ones they've small and light their surface dimensions r such they reflect radar waves same way as the much bigger real nuke so one ababeel could Carry several dozen of decoy and even single warhead missiles r very difficult to intercept Japan couldn't intercept any nk missile in boost phase or other and they has USA tech and more advance then u
And even USA and French tech of ABM isn't reliable so forget your pad for special times and we saw failure of s400 in Syria :)
 
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My child dummy warhead don't have to be as big and baby as real ones they've small and light their surface dimensions r such they reflect radar waves same way as the much bigger real nuke so one ababeel could Carry several dozen of decoy
And even USA and French tech of ABM isn't reliable so forget your pad for special times and we saw failure of s400 in Syria :)

kid u have no iota of knowledge in this field there must be one warhead that should includes a plurality of dummy warhead shells having an external configuration matched to the real warhead and a radar image resembling the radar image of the real warhead. The stacks of these dummy warhead shells are attached to one or both extremities of the real warhead in a coaxial relationship thereto and secured together forming a package comprising a plurality of dummy warhead shells and a real warhead, which package includes means for separating the dummy warheads and real warhead from each other after the ICBM warhead is launched into space. The dummy warheads separated from each other and from the real warhead and following essentially the same trajectory as the real warhead, which provide the same radar image as the real warhead, practically make it impossible to identify and intercept the real warhead by overwhelming any star war defense.

So if ababeel theoretically has 3 spaces 1 space ideally should be spared for dummy.
So practically makes no sense to deploy Mirv on an IRBM. ICBMs which carry 6-12 warheads are ideal carriers of MIRVs
 
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kid u have no iota of knowledge in this field there must be one warhead that should includes a plurality of dummy warhead shells having an external configuration matched to the real warhead and a radar image resembling the radar image of the real warhead. The stacks of these dummy warhead shells are attached to one or both extremities of the real warhead in a coaxial relationship thereto and secured together forming a package comprising a plurality of dummy warhead shells and a real warhead, which package includes means for separating the dummy warheads and real warhead from each other after the ICBM warhead is launched into space. The dummy warheads separated from each other and from the real warhead and following essentially the same trajectory as the real warhead, which provide the same radar image as the real warhead, practically make it impossible to identify and intercept the real warhead by overwhelming any star war defense.

So if ababeel theoretically has 3 spaces 1 space ideally should be spared for dummy.
So practically makes no sense to deploy Mirv on an IRBM. ICBMs which carry 6-12 warheads are ideal carriers of MIRVs
Son u r against hiding your ignorance behind posted big words where does the above say the dummy warhead to be as big as the real nuke
Its Shell just have to reflect waves same way with proper angles even a tenis ball size would give same radar signature as real one and is say even I'd ababeel caries single nuke the dozens of DEcoys r more important as they overwhelm the sensors
And you yourself have said one apace of warhead that could carry several dozen of decoy
And I made a few changes in previous comment read em :)

kid u have no iota of knowledge in this field there must be one warhead that should includes a plurality of dummy warhead shells having an external configuration matched to the real warhead and a radar image resembling the radar image of the real warhead. The stacks of these dummy warhead shells are attached to one or both extremities of the real warhead in a coaxial relationship thereto and secured together forming a package comprising a plurality of dummy warhead shells and a real warhead, which package includes means for separating the dummy warheads and real warhead from each other after the ICBM warhead is launched into space. The dummy warheads separated from each other and from the real warhead and following essentially the same trajectory as the real warhead, which provide the same radar image as the real warhead, practically make it impossible to identify and intercept the real warhead by overwhelming any star war defense.

So if ababeel theoretically has 3 spaces 1 space ideally should be spared for dummy.
So practically makes no sense to deploy Mirv on an IRBM. ICBMs which carry 6-12 warheads are ideal carriers of MIRVs
Your own para
The stacks of these dummy warhead shells are attached to one or both extremities of the real warhead in a coaxial relationship thereto and secured together forming a package comprising a plurality of dummy warhead shells and a real warhead,
Stacks of dummy warhead with a real nuke read before pasting ignorant that's why India is most ignorant country in world ;)

Where was your advantage in the 90s when there was no 9/11 and 1000s were dying in Kashmir every year?
So stop it with the excuses.

Really? They have been defeated?
Didn't 3 or 4 pakistani soldiers got killed in Waziristan a few days ago?

Also, no.
Terrorists have been dying disproportionately at the hands of our security forces.
View attachment 481886
The last column is the total casualties, the 2nd last is the terrorists killed and the 3rd last is the security forces casualty. Notice how every year terrorists dying as a proportion to the security forces is increasing.

Not true.
Back in the 90s we were more close than we are today.

Humiliation? Really?
Wasn't it PAF which refused to even engage IAF as IAF fire bombed pakistani soldiers?
It is actually over 1:1.6 but you are forgetting that we not only have more fighters we have better fighters.
While your F-16s age and America refuses to give you its spares and weapons, PAF has nothing equivalent to the latest versions of the Su-30MKIs, Mig-29s, Mirage 2000s.
And again we further intend to widen the gap with more Su-30MKIs, Rafales while the only visible 4th gen fighter that PAF is going to induct is JFT Blk3 which is nowhere near the Rafales.

As for US under your belt, if anything Trump has been routing you lot all throughout this year. So Please don't pretend like you can control US.
Also you forget that we too were sanctioned in the 90s.
Your trump gov approached us to mediate dialogue with Taliban and we didn't care much of his barking before as for us experience means that we caused so much damage to super power usa in Afghanistan that r asking for dialogue and a deal with Taliban
And.we now gonna use same experience and resources against u in proxy warfare
 
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Son u r against hiding your ignorance behind posted big words where does the above say the dummy warhead to be as big as the real nuke
Its Shell just have to reflect waves same way with proper angles even a tenis ball size would give same radar signature as real one and is say even I'd ababeel caries single nuke the dozens of DEcoys r more important as they overwhelm the sensors
And you yourself have said one apace of warhead that could carry severupal dozen of decoy
And I made a few changes in previous comment read em :)


Your own para
The stacks of these dummy warhead shells are attached to one or both extremities of the real warhead in a coaxial relationship thereto and secured together forming a package comprising a plurality of dummy warhead shells and a real warhead,
Stacks of dummy warhead with a real nuke read before pasting ignorant that's why India is most ignorant country in world ;)

seems like you have comprehension issues. Just keep this thing in mind ONE SPOT ON MIRV BUS WILL ALWAYS BE USED TO PLACE A WARHEAD SHELL WITH SAME DIMENSIONS carries the real dummy warhead which again depends on technology of ICBM nation how many they can place USA might place same amount of dummy warhead in one spot as number of real warheads or more Russia France will obviously carry less it all again goes to basic metallurgy pakistan is way behind the curve chinese might give you it but again how advance is china in metallurgy at least 15 years behind russia in engine tech<basic metallurgy> and Russia is easy 15 years behind US

In attached image may be one or two are shells with dummy warheads.
 

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  • LGM-118A_Peacekeeper_MIRV.jpg
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seems like you have comprehension issues. Just keep this thing in mind ONE SPOT ON MIRV BUS WILL ALWAYS BE USED TO PLACE A WARHEAD SHELL WITH SAME DIMENSIONS carries the real dummy warhead which again depends on technology of ICBM nation how many they can place USA might place same amount of dummy warhead in one spot as number of real warheads or more Russia France will obviously carry less it all again goes to basic metallurgy pakistan is way behind the curve chinese might give you it but again how advance is china in metallurgy at least 15 years behind russia in engine tech<basic metallurgy> and Russia is easy 15 years behind US

In attached image may be one or two are shells with dummy warheads.
The stacks of these dummy warhead shells are attached to one or both extremities of the real warhead in a coaxial relationship thereto and secured together forming a package comprising a plurality of dummy warhead shells and a real warhead,
Your own link perhaps u have comprehension problems
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Stack of dummy warheads ( note stack is several objects arranged on top of each other) attached with real warhead :)
 
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The stacks of these dummy warhead shells are attached to one or both extremities of the real warhead in a coaxial relationship thereto and secured together forming a package comprising a plurality of dummy warhead shells and a real warhead,
Your own link perhaps u have comprehension problems
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Stack of dummy warheads ( note stack is several objects arranged on top of each other) attached with real warhead :)

in the dummy warhead the stack of real dummy warheads is placed with same axis. this is how the things go. A sub kiloton nuke can be stacked but what will be use of that.
 
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ur post makes no sense, India is not bogged down anywhere inside her territories we exercise total and conplete control, all these militants save thr arses by hiding in civilians or crossing over to neighboring countries.


Let’s consider of LOC in Kashmir, one of the heavily militarized zones in the world, well-guarded with the help of advanced equipment makes it nearly impossible to breach, yet still your army claims of regular incursions then it’s nothing more but incompetence or otherwise those claim are utterly false. This scenario is just an example out of many and it’s still a very lengthy topic.


On other hand India can easily put overwhelming firepower on LoC to puncture all fortified positions pakistanis use to launch its terrorists in kashmir.


Indian armed forces are frequently involved in violation of ceasefire on LOC and received heavy damage, but one must agree that they are not saints, they tried hard to overwhelm but still not good enough.


All we need to do is bring and buy latest toys like S-400 and predators to take out the terrorists camps inside pakistan occ kashmir. Once that is done sub conventional goals will be all met.


You can have one at time either S-400 or predators as US have confirmed that the share of lethal technology with india will be halted that includes predator drones after you opted for S-400 deal and if still somehow you get both of them even then you will be observing the hype of sub-conventional war limited to the statements of your officials and nothing more.
 
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LOL what about u mmm. No more kargil? We are also waiting u to get some balls fight us up front instead stabbing our back...
Sorry, currently we are busy in hunting season and we are not in a mood to do anything. Please wait for sometime for that
 
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You can have one at time either S-400 or predators as US have confirmed that the share of lethal technology with india will be halted that includes predator drones after you opted for S-400 deal and if still somehow you get both of them even then you will be observing the hype of sub-conventional war limited to the statements of your officials and nothing more.

US is seller they will sooner or later sells its defense equipment from where ever it gets money it also gives them political leverage over the buyer, in India's they certainly need that. Avengers and S-400 will definitely come so does news of drone strikes inside pakistani occ kashmir.
 
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in the dummy warhead the stack of real dummy warheads is placed with same axis. this is how the things go. A sub kiloton nuke can be stacked but what will be use of that.
What is a sub kiloton nuke it's sub megaton stupid tactical nukes r between 1-5 KT stupid
And do u think 2200 km ababaeel will be carrying subkiloton nukes r u that stupid or pretending to be one ??
It would Cary strategic nukes with several hundred KT power with STACKS of dummy warheads
For tactical nukes we have nasar abdali Babar and raad the last three can also deliver strategic nukes ;)
Please I know India is the most ignorant country in world but at least don't spread your ignorance on PDF :)
 
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Can any one explain why most of the people think 2024+ there is a possibility of war with Pak. I believe that's the time when India would shift it's real attention or already have towards China. So Pakistan in picture plays less role. As it would only play a proxy to China.

2018-19, not possible, nothing more than localized CFV like ongoing ones. India has its own priorities, than to waste time on war. This will be the time when BJP with alliance would regain the seats and would be busy with internal cleaning.

I chose 2020-2021 because this would be the time when US would be going through transition in government, and to tarnish the image of Modi China may use Pakistan to hurt Indian economy through war. Followed by incursion of China in NE and Ladhak within 3 years.
 
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Ttp bla doesn't hold pak territory they do occasional terror attacks using sleeper cells one in months such even occur in west so yes defeated
It is well known conventional power difference Was highest in 90s not so much and in fact shrinking every one with knowledge knows that
As for casualties yes Kashmir losses t higher then Indian occupiers but same was the case of soviet versus afg and now USA but issue is continuous bleeding of occupiers both in life and more important for administration economically and politically
Did your jets dared to cross loc no they stick to iok side that's why paf didn't engage as all our our ops were in your territory using your own bunkers tonkill your soldier below ;) we didn't wanted the war to go full scale nor did u that's why u didn't cross loc

If they were really defeated they would not be able to regularly ambush pakistani troops.
Continuous bleeding of occupiers? What a joke.
We are the fastest growing BRICS nation in the world, you can't "bleed" us fast enough, on the other hand you being in such an economically vulnerable position, we can bleed you faster, if you lot didn't bleed yourselves first that is.
Asfor America, every other country might be rising up to closethe gap between them and US but pak is nowhere near the US.
It is the richest country in the world if they really tried and didn't care about human rights they would trounce you all over the place, remember Salala attack.

Why should we have crossed the LOC?
We didn't attack you, you attacked us, our goal was to re-establish status quo which we did.
Why didn't PAF participate and save pakistanis as they were being murdered by IAF?
You didn't want the war to go ahead because you started losing and went to Bill chacha to intervene, nice attempt at face saving though.

Your trump gov approached us to mediate dialogue with Taliban and we didn't care much of his barking before as for us experience means that we caused so much damage to super power usa in Afghanistan that r asking for dialogue and a deal with Taliban
And.we now gonna use same experience and resources against u in proxy warfare

They are asking for dialogue?
America chose to ally with you because you lot were always chummy with the Taliban, that was your purpose, don't pretend like this is new thing.

And it is the other way around they are pressuring you in the diplomatic forum to force you into talking with the taliban.
Literally one tweet from Trump made you lot house arrest hafiz saaed.
As for proxy warfare, you have been failing all around in that areas as well, our relationship with Afghanistan keeps getting better, our trade keeps increasing, terrorists in Kashmir are dying hand over fist, it seems your "proxy warfare" is having the opposite effect.
 
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What is a sub kiloton nuke it's sub megaton stupid tactical nukes r between 1-5 KT stupid
And do u think 2200 km ababaeel will be carrying subkiloton nukes r u that stupid or pretending to be one ??
It would Cary strategic nukes with several hundred KT power with STACKS of dummy warheads
For tactical nukes we have nasar abdali Babar and raad the last three can also deliver strategic nukes ;)
Please I know India is the most ignorant country in world but at least don't spread your ignorance on PDF :)

Like I posted earlier ababeel an IRBM has limited carry capability pakistan is still long away from larger diameter solid rockets. All pakistan can muster is chinese 90s blueprints of ~200 kts which probably max 2-3 you guys can fit in mirv bus <I am assuming here as pakistan is years or decades away from real MIRV capabilities>.
So not a threat which present and future ABMs in pipeline for India can not deal with.
Our real issue is ICBMs heading from china. pakistan is way down the league.
 
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While the world’s strategic community remains engaged with Iran, North Korea and Palestine, an extremely volatile nuclear flash-point in South Asia – the India-Pakistan border – merits earnest attention. Since a ceasefire agreement in 2003, there have been numerous instances of ceasefire violations. In the first two months of 2018 alone, India reported 633 violations and Pakistan reported 400.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a lack of intelligence-based analysis of the recurring ceasefire violations. Even basic attempts at reasoned analysis show that violations are less likely to be random incidents of misadventure than calculated strategic moves under the bigger umbrella of Pakistan’s irregular warfare. The recent violations in Jammu, for example, could have been aimed at terrorizing the local population, providing momentum to disruptive activities in Kashmir valley or diverting attention from a large-scale infiltration attempt.

Understanding Pakistan’s irregular warfare is a study in itself. In contrast, India’s capabilities remain highly confined.

Pakistan has mastered the craft of proxy war over the past three decades in Afghanistan and Kashmir. It has assets in the form of radicalized groups in Kashmir and the other parts of India, but unfortunately, India does not have that advantage in Pakistan.

India also lacks an “aggressive strategic culture” needed to plan and implement systematic and sustained efforts in the field of psy-wars, cyber-wars, information warfare, sabotage, civil unrest and political disruptions. Unlike in Pakistan, with every election, policy, personnel and ideology change in India. Further, Indian agencies lack enough authority, are highly bureaucratized, and suffer from inter- and intra-agency rivalry.

Hence the range of options to counter Pakistan is very narrow. India’s edge over Pakistan has always been in conventional war, which possibly propelled Pakistan to make strategic and tactical nuclear weapons. There is a belief in parts of India’s strategic community that Pakistan would retaliate with a full-scale atomic attack in the case of a strong response by India to its terror tactics. Its body politic has sustained far more than the “thousand cuts” that the late Pakistani president Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq’s had dreamed of inflicting on India ultimately to weaken its hold on Kashmir.

India’s fears of a retaliation seem baseless and unfounded in light of Pakistan’s low-profile response to India’s surgical strikes. Pakistan does not seem to have a response mechanism for a scenario wherein India retaliates to its proxy wars with aggressive military action, short of full-scale war.

Resorting to nuclear options would actually be a greater disaster for Pakistan, something that the Pakistan Army – a highly rational actor – understands. It realizes that the nuclear option could be the last resort in the event of a serious threat to its very survival. However, that occasion may not arise in the case of sub-conventional, short-range and swift military action by India that is insufficient to justify retaliation with nuclear weapons. Herein lies the chink in Pakistan’s armor.

That said, the increasing radicalization of lower-level cadres in the Pakistan Army presents an alarming threat. If a radicalized field commander decided to use a tactical nuclear weapon in response to India, the confrontation would escalate into a nuclear catastrophe, which could prove to be the worst-case scenario for South Asia.

Still, India could consider a sub-conventional military response. It could attempt regular bouts of aggressive, high-intensity counter-offensive moves over an extended period, interspersed with perfunctory peace initiatives and diplomatic activity. The objectives of such actions should be to destroy the terror infrastructure near the Line of Control. A strike on Lashkar-e-Toiba’s headquarters at Muridke in Pakistan’s Punjab province could generate robust political capital for any political party in India.

With increasing levels of frustration in the Indian Army and the worsening situation in the Kashmir Valley, a sub-conventional response by India becomes a likely scenario. It could enhance India’s strategic footprint and trigger the diplomatic isolation of Pakistan. The upcoming national elections could also push the existing government to act in such a manner.

As long as centralized actors control the making and implementation of policy in Pakistan, a sub-conventional response would, in all likelihood, generate dividends for India.

http://www.atimes.com/india-should-consider-sub-conventional-warfare-against-pakistan/
You should have written that directly to your bureaucratic circles, rather than telling Pakistanis that what you are planning or think.
 
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