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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

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The problem is, the EF was not shortlisted in Brazil and no price was reported, or negotiated there. Not sure where the author got this price from, but I think the EF T3B with AESA..., will cost clearly over $100 millions even for EF partners and since the production costs in Europe are similarly high, why should the licence production in India be so much more cheaper for EF? :undecided:

Well you are correct and to be honest the actual price will need some wait time.

But EF must have submitted the bid without AESA. Coz if they say the cost of fighter wil be $100 million a peice including AESA then they will submit a estimated bid than an actual one. The actual bid will not have all the jazz items that will come T3. correct?, hence keeping the price low. But not sure if its going to be $80 million...The same could be said for Rafale too..
 
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Not sure about that, because the only source that said the EJ 200 was cheaper was Ajay Shukla, which turned out to be completelly wrong on that. Also keep in mind that there were some bribery allegations regarding the Europeans as well, but personally I think they simply choosed the cheapest and easiest to induct solution as a stop gap. GTRE and MoD wants the Kaveri - Snecma engine, while IAF wants an improved Kaveri K9 to power at least LCA MK1 after MLU, if not additional MK2s before. From this point of view, the GE engine was the logical choice, because we now use it's predecessor and from all reliable sources, it is cheaper per unit as well than the European engine.

the fact what shukla got and EJ quoted was true and indeed EJ quoted less w.r.t to engines.. but in ToT to HAL whichwill include the whole price EJ lost.. the point they might have bribed is to present the new quoted price... If GE was the logical choice there wouldnt have been any bid..
 
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Well you are correct and to be honest the actual price will need some wait time.

But EF must have submitted the bid without AESA. Coz if they say the cost of fighter wil be $100 million a peice including AESA then they will submit a estimated bid than an actual one. The actual bid will not have all the jazz items that will come T3. correct?, hence keeping the price low. But not sure if its going to be $80 million...The same could be said for Rafale too..

The whole point of the bidding will include all the fancy add-ons that IAF wants with either of the winners. That's the whole point of bidding. Prices will be kept low say when EFT opens production line for sales in India if at all Typhoon wins. As of now, Rafale stands a better chance when it comes to multirole capabilities, cost, infrastructure and ease to deal with a single entity rather than 4 different ones.
 
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Livefist: MMRCA Benchmarking Complete By IAF, Lowest Bidder In 5-6 Weeks

typhoon+vs+rafale.jpg
 
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Winner of combat aircraft deal likely in 5-6 weeks: Naik -  

Air Chief Marshal P V Naik today said the likely winner of the multi-billion dollar combat aircraft deal would be known in the "next five to six" weeks.

"The next step is to call vendors and open up the commercial bids. I think in the next five to six weeks, I expect that the L1 (lowest bidder) would be decided," he said here.

As per the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP), the lowest bidder in the multi vendor tenders is considered to be the winner of the deals.

European consortium Eurofighter Typhoon and the French Dassault Rafale are the two companies in race for supplying 126 Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA) to the Indian Air Force.

The two companies were shortlisted after a five-year long competition between six companies including the American Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Russian MiG 35 and Swedish Saab Gripen.

The IAF chief said that major procedures such as the completion of the Technical Offsets Evaluation Committee report have been finalised.

Commenting on the Mirage 2000 aircraft upgrade programme, Naik said the deal worth over Rs 10,900 crore would be signed soon under which 51 aircraft would be upgraded.

The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) had recently cleared the proposal for upgrading 51 aircraft to the Mirage 2000-5 standards in collaboration with France.

On the results for procuring heavy-lift and attack helicopters, the IAF chief said the trials have been completed by the force and the trial report would be submitted to the Defence Ministry soon.
 
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I am late for the vote.so i will cheer on the typhoon. Rafale is a useless aircfart for us.no country apart from the french has ordered the rafale it is a proof of how utter rubbish this aircraft is. EF all the way.
 
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I am late for the vote.so i will cheer on the typhoon. Rafale is a useless aircfart for us.no country apart from the french has ordered the rafale it is a proof of how utter rubbish this aircraft is. EF all the way.

Buddy just because no one has placed orders for this plane doesnot make it a useless plane the truth is that one needs to see his requirments before ordering a plane , Right now IAF is operating many air superiority aircrafts (su30,mig29) what it needs is a true multirole aircrafts which is RAfale . And BTW in most of the deals Rafale has lost to the American fighters and you know what kind of political pressure they apply to win a deal.:sniper:
And Typhoon is really a nice plane but without its tranche3 its seriously lacks bomding capabillity so Ithink IAF should go for RAFALE.:yahoo:
 
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The whole point of the bidding will include all the fancy add-ons that IAF wants with either of the winners. That's the whole point of bidding. Prices will be kept low say when EFT opens production line for sales in India if at all Typhoon wins. As of now, Rafale stands a better chance when it comes to multirole capabilities, cost, infrastructure and ease to deal with a single entity rather than 4 different ones.

Yeah Rafale is a complete package of capabillities what IAF is looking or should look but don't you think the double dealing habit of French and their willingness to sell advance weapons to Porkies should affect this deal. And don't think that Dassault is asking tooooooooo much money much more than what they are offering to us.
 
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Yeah Rafale is a complete package of capabillities what IAF is looking or should look but don't you think the double dealing habit of French and their willingness to sell advance weapons to Porkies should affect this deal. And don't think that Dassault is asking tooooooooo much money much more than what they are offering to us.
you are too right sir the best thing in the french plane is that their performance is best we have seen this in kargil war with mirage2000 their sortie rate is almost double than the russian counterpart as for rafale its really multirole as it is designed with multirole in mind the only lacking is the engine m88 if uprated then it is the best of the best whereas the ef has many problems as the weapons not tested or integrated the eurojet 2000 is a decent engine but serviceability of m88 is best if india keeps politics aside than they should go for rafale
 
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Exchange Rate Behind UAE Rafale Balk: Dassault

PARIS - The price resistance from the United Arab Emirates on the Rafale fighter jet stems from an unfavorable euro-dollar exchange rate, but talks on the French aircraft continue, Dassault Aviation executive chairman Charles Edelstenne said July 28.


The UAE's discussion with Lockheed Martin about a potential purchase of additional F-16 fighters was "not a negative sign," Edelstenne told a press conference on the company's results for the first half of the year.

"Talks are going on," he said.

But with the euro at $1.40, the Rafale's sale price was boosted by the currency exchange rate, Edelstenne said. Dassault could not cut prices by 40 percent to offset the weaker dollar.

"I make Mirages, not miracles," he said.

The euro was trading at $1.43 in early afternoon, with the dollar under severe pressure from the U.S. government impasse on raising the debt-ceiling limit ahead of the Aug. 2 deadline.

Edelstenne refused to disclose the unit price of a Rafale, but he said an export purchase generally involves a political decision to pay a "price premium" that granted "independence of action." As the Rafale is built in France, reflecting a strategic decision on sovereignty, its costs are in euros, making it more expensive than an American fighter aircraft sold in dollars.

On the French government's July 20 decision to start negotiations with Dassault on a supply of the Heron TP medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) UAV, Edelstenne said this meant sustaining a French design capability in military aircraft instead of paying for the "Messerschmitt design office" in EADS.

Edelstenne said in picking OHB over EADS, Germany made similar national selections in its space procurement.

Asked what the significance was in selecting Dassault as supplier of an interim MALE UAV, Edelstenne said the choice showed a determination to maintain a French national capability in building combat aircraft, as the next manned fighter jet would not enter service for another 30 to 40 years.

The negotiations would determine what sensors and communications payloads would go on the Israeli Aerospace Industries' UAV air vehicle, which is intended to provide an interim solution until the planned Anglo-French new generation MALE UAV enters service, expected in 2020.

IAI has agreed to disclose technical information on the Heron TP, which will be adapted to French requirements, including the ability to carry weapons, Edelstenne said.

The interim MALE UAV could have a service life of around 10 years and could overlap with the new Anglo-French air system, a company executive said.

On an asset swap under negotiation between Safran and Thales, Edelstenne said the airplane engine and equipment maker was holding up a deal by saying "no" to each new proposal from the electronics company. That forced Thales into a corner, he said.

"The valuation levels are a bit extraordinary," Edelstenne said.

Dassault signed an agreement with the government on an asset swap when it took its 26 percent stake in Thales, covering inertial navigation, onboard electricity generation and optronics, Edelstenne said.

Safran's sales in optronics are worth around 600 million euros, and if the business were put into Thales, that would make the electronics company second or third in the world market for electro-optics.

At the Paris Air Show in June, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the government would impose a settlement if industry failed to reach a voluntary agreement.

Edelstenne said he was "very satisfied" with the Thales first-half results, which were released on July 27. The results displayed early effects of the Probasis restructuring plan and improved management of large programs and contract negotiations, he said.

Dassault reported a 35 percent fall in net profit to 129 million euros from 197 million euros a year ago, as sales dropped 34 percent to 1.32 billion euros from 1.99 billion euros.

The sales and profit slide came from lower deliveries of the Falcon business jet, with a delay in shipment of the Falcon 7X into the second half.

Orders declined to 95 million euros from 99 million euros.

On a production rate of one unit per month, Dassault has delivered six Rafale jets so far this year out of 180 total orders to date.

Privately, company executives expect the French government to stretch out future Rafale orders because of expected defense budget cuts, especially if export contracts are won.

Besides the UAE, Dassault hopes to sell the Rafale to India, Brazil and Switzerland. India is holding to its timetable to buy 126 medium-range combat aircraft, and the Swiss government has shown renewed interest in replacing its F-5 fighters.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7226552&c=AIR&s=TOP&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
 
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Exchange Rate Behind UAE Rafale Balk: Dassault
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...But with the euro at $1.40, the Rafale's sale price was boosted by the currency exchange rate, Edelstenne said. Dassault could not cut prices by 40 percent to offset the weaker dollar....

Good that we don't have these problems in MMRCA, because both fighters are paid in Euros, the important point will be, which package offers the most for the costs?
 
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what the possiblility that both jets goes out of threshold limits of the MMRCA allocated fund..

will the next in line jets would be called for ?
 
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what the possiblility that both jets goes out of threshold limits of the MMRCA allocated fund..

will the next in line jets would be called for ?

Its expected that the price will come down from the initial tender.

I dont think there is any possibility to next in line jet calling, but if thats the case would love to see Hornets in IAF colors.
 
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you are too right sir the best thing in the french plane is that their performance is best we have seen this in kargil war with mirage2000 their sortie rate is almost double than the russian counterpart as for rafale its really multirole as it is designed with multirole in mind the only lacking is the engine m88 if uprated then it is the best of the best whereas the ef has many problems as the weapons not tested or integrated the eurojet 2000 is a decent engine but serviceability of m88 is best if india keeps politics aside than they should go for rafale

But don't think that since India has signed the Mirage deal which includes tot(mirage mk2 has taken most of the stuff from rafale) so IAF may think to go for typhoon in order to get tot of both the planes.
 
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