India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[Ajaxpaul]

 

[Ajaxpaul]

 

[Silent egale]

Sancho, You rocks

 

[SpArK]

 

[Silent egale]

Ajaxpaul you also doing nice work by posting nice photograph

 

[sancho]

Does anyone know if selected will either plane come with a HMDS as STANDARD, right from day one in IAF service?...

Sancho,

Its really surprising...French never integrated HMS for Rafale...wonder why that is ....is it because Spectra helps in cueing the missiles to their target...significantly reducing need for an HMS ?

HMS is a must have for IAF, all upgraded and new fighters will have it, but when all features of the winning fighter will be released is hard to tell, several things might remain to be classified.
Regarding Rafale and HMS, check this please:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...f-rafale-mmrca-shortlist-109.html#post1793194


Also at the Paris air show we saw these pics:

Thales stand. note the Topsight helmet

So Topsight is a possibility for Rafale, which would even increase the commonality to upgraded Mirage 2000-5, Mig 29K, possibly Mig 29SMT and LCA as well (both not clear so far). Moreover, since we already have a JV with Thales and Samtel for it, with the new name, Divy Drishti:

And did you noticed the fighter at the flatscreen in the background? Seems that I had the right feeling about the new Thales - Samtel JV, which not only include HMS for fighter and helicopter, but also an IRST and the following pics confirms, that the JV is about Rafales Front Sector Optronics:

https://picasaweb.google.com/113153562711547449831/AeroIndia2011#5574602953616028946

https://picasaweb.google.com/113153562711547449831/AeroIndia2011#5574600418386606114


Here is the full gallery with a lot of interesting pics from the Samtel booth at Aero India 2011:

https://picasaweb.google.com/113153562711547449831/AeroIndia2011


However, if I'm right and we select Rafale, Samtel might provide the HMS, the IRST channel of FSO and possibly even some displays (with HAL) as part of the offsets and with ToT. And I would bet that this would not only be the case for our order, but for other export customers as well, like the UAE, or Brazil that wanted HMS too!

 

[sancho]

That's a PS of a Rafale for Brazil, although I doubt they really would get this paint job, but here are some more PS:

Rafale in Indian colors

And a Rafale in Russian colors

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

The two-way datalink is
compatible with Eurofighter and
Gripen but not with Rafale which is
fitted with a one-way link originally
designed for use with MICA .
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBDA_Meteor
how does it affect rafale compatibility with meteor ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

HMS is a must have for IAF, all upgraded and new fighters will have it, but when all features of the winning fighter will be released is hard to tell, several things might remain to be classified.
Regarding Rafale and HMS, check this please:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...f-rafale-mmrca-shortlist-109.html#post1793194


Also at the Paris air show we saw these pics:

So Topsight is a possibility for Rafale, which would even increase the commonality to upgraded Mirage 2000-5, Mig 29K, possibly Mig 29SMT and LCA as well (both not clear so far). Moreover, since we already have a JV with Thales and Samtel for it, with the new name, Divy Drishti:

And did you noticed the fighter at the flatscreen in the background? Seems that I had the right feeling about the new Thales - Samtel JV, which not only include HMS for fighter and helicopter, but also an IRST and the following pics confirms, that the JV is about Rafales Front Sector Optronics:

https://picasaweb.google.com/113153562711547449831/AeroIndia2011#5574602953616028946

https://picasaweb.google.com/113153562711547449831/AeroIndia2011#5574600418386606114


Here is the full gallery with a lot of interesting pics from the Samtel booth at Aero India 2011:

https://picasaweb.google.com/113153562711547449831/AeroIndia2011


However, if I'm right and we select Rafale, Samtel might provide the HMS, the IRST channel of FSO and possibly even some displays (with HAL) as part of the offsets and with ToT. And I would bet that this would not only be the case for our order, but for other export customers as well, like the UAE, or Brazil that wanted HMS too!

Thank you fr your analysis. Firstly is there a difference between between the TOPSIGHT and the JV SAMTAL-Thales HMDS called "Divy Drishl"? I thought it was called TOPSIGHT-I, but which is more advanced/capable (if applicable). Good point about IRST, HMDS JVs and future export potential but would these be part of the MMRCA proposal to IAF right now (ie would Rafele, if picked, be delivered with these extras)?


And I believe the IN MIG-29K, IAF UPG MIRAGE-2000-5, MIG-29 UPG and possibly LCA would all use (i have seen pics of a HMDS integrated on LCA but not sure if it is TOPSIGHT or Elbit, but Thaless would make sense in terms of commonality) TOPSIGHT as well as MKI in future with "SUPER" UPG standard.

 

[sancho]

how does it affect rafale compatibility with meteor ?

As far as I understand it, only at re-targeting the missile, but anything else should work just like they do it with MICA now, which can get midcourse guidance by the launching fighter, or another Rafale via data link.

Thank you fr your analysis. Firstly is there a difference between between the TOPSIGHT and the JV SAMTAL-Thales HMDS called "Divy Drishl"? I thought it was called TOPSIGHT-I, but which is more advanced/capable (if applicable). Good point about IRST, HMDS JVs and future export potential but would these be part of the MMRCA proposal to IAF right now (ie would Rafele, if picked, be delivered with these extras)?
And I believe the IN MIG-29K, IAF UPG MIRAGE-2000-5, MIG-29 UPG and possibly LCA would all use (i have seen pics of a HMDS integrated on LCA but not sure if it is TOPSIGHT or Elbit, but Thaless would make sense in terms of commonality) TOPSIGHT as well as MKI in future with "SUPER" UPG standard.

Topsight - I was the initial name, can't tell you why they have changed it, or what exactly is the difference now, the specs on the Samtel site, as well as both pics looks pretty much the same.
If IAF requires HMS and a dedicated IRST, which is pretty likey, these will be available from the start of the delivery. Both the IRST and the Topsight HMS are developed and while the first is already operational, the latter might just need some minor integration and as I showed, early (futuristic) prototypes of the helmet were used on Rafale before.
The reports about the Mig upgrade first talked about a new Russian HMS, but the recent reports said Topsight, also LCA prototypes uses the Israeli Dash HMS, but that doesn't mean that Topsight wouldn't be integrated at the end, for operational service. Especially IN, with Mig 29K and N-LCA might have interest on the same HMS for both fighters.

 

[SpArK]

UAE best bet for French Rafale fighter jet deal​

The United Arab Emirates is France’s best bet in the short term for clinching an export deal for Dassault Aviation’s Rafale fighter jet, French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet has said.

The French company has still not found a foreign buyer for the multi-role Rafale, billed as one of the most effective but also one of the most expensive fighter jets in the world.

The aircraft-maker had come close to securing a multi-billion-dollar deal with Brazil, but the Brazilian government has delayed its decision until 2012 and President Dilma Lousseff looks to be favoring rival Boeing’s F-18.

India has shortlisted the Rafale along with Eurofighter’s Typhoon for a 126-jet deal and talks are ongoing, although Mr. Longuet appeared to suggest they may have hit a snag.

“Some countries have budget problems, as in Brazil’s case. They may also have political problems, as in India’s case. That leaves the Emirates and talks are advanced,” Mr. Longuet told reporters in Paris.

The minister said the UAE was no longer demanding a more powerful engine, previously a condition for a deal, and said he thought Rafale airstrikes in Libya had helped sway the Emirati government.

“The operational and multi-role capacities of the Rafale are being proven on a daily basis with these strikes,” he said.

“The Libyan conflict is a clear demonstration that the current engine capacity is sufficient.”

The UAE has been in talks with Dassault since 2008 over the purchase of 60 Rafale jets, estimated at 10 billion dollars, to replace their fleet of Mirage 2000s which they bought in 1983.

Talks with Brazil have been going on for years, and Dassault came close to a deal with former president Luis Ignacio da Silva. But that was thrown into doubt by his successor President Dilma Roussef who demanded a review of all finalists’ bids when she took office at the start of 2011.

Last week, Brazilian Defence Minister Nelson Jobim said the government would not re-examine bids until the start of 2012 as it needed to focus on its domestic agenda.

“The Rafale hasn’t been ruled out but that decision isn’t President Dilma Roussef’s main priority at the moment,” Mr. Longuet told reporters in Paris.

Regarding the Indian talks, Mr. Longuet said he was confident the government preferred the Rafale and that the final decision would be technical rather than political.

“Things seem to look good,” he said, adding that in India’s case too Libya had also had a positive effect.

UAE best bet for French Rafale fighter jet deal

 

[DkBose]

sad to see that every body tagetted libya for the demonstration of the fighters potential.

 

[SpArK]

sad to see that every body tagetted libya for the demonstration of the fighters potential.

You with rebels or with Gaddafi?

 

[SpArK]

 

[sudhir007]

Combat aircraft bids opening soon | defence | Combat Aircraft | The New Indian Express

The commercial bids for the ‘mother of all defence deals’ - for 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), valuing over $10 billion, will be opened before July 31.

However, the winner of the contract - French Dassault or European Eurofighter - will be known only when the IAF finds out the lowest bidder based on various factors such as life cycle maintenance costs.

Highly-placed sources have indicated that the bids for the most-awaited tender will be opened within the next 10 days, before present IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik demits his office.

“The bids’ envelope will be opened soon. But, the lowest bidder will not emerge immediately,” sources said and added: “We will be considering nine parameters, including life cycle cost, maintenance cost, cost of spare parts and so forth. The process is very tedious and will take couple of months before a price tag is put on the two down selected aircrafts.”

The opening of the bids will be followed by commercial negotiations around September with the vendors before the signing of the contract. “The contract negotiations will be based on 538 parameters based on which the IAF has arrived at a reasonable cost for the contract,” pointed the sources.

After a gruelling two years of flight trial in different regions, IAF had zeroed on the Eurofighter from the European consortium EADS and Rafale from French Dassault. Earlier there were four more contenders, including two from the US - Lockheed Martin’s F-16IN Super Viper and Boeing’s F-18 Super Hornet - Swedish SAAB’s Gripen and Russian MiG-35.

The sheer size of the order has made it one of the most coveted defence contracts of the recent times and all the countries have pulled the strings - politically, economically and strategically - to swing the decision in their favour.

The aircraft will help the IAF, the fourth largest air force in the world, to contain its depleting strength of the fighter squadrons which has come down to 32.5 from the sanctioned strength of 42 squadrons.